Roads - articles and discussion

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Tunnels the 'result of poor planning'

[#Metro]

Well I am surprised to hear this - IPA is the engineers (read: concrete) lobby and are one of the reason why such huge amounts of money goes into concrete rather than services.

I can't say that I agree with him. Where are you going to put legacy way on the surface. That's just crazy. To the right is the Brisbane river, we already have Coronation Drive and Milton Roads, then you have hills of paddington etc.

These suburbs started coming around the 1920s - so someone in 1920 has to think up legacy way. Dreaming stuff.

There was a time where all these freeways were surface - proposed in 1969 as the Wilbur Smith Transportation Plan where bulldozers would just go along and slice up all the houses and the engineers would pour concrete all over the inner suburbs. The ugly Bowen Hills spaghetti junction and go between bridge all feature in it along with the 1970s CRR via Wooloongabba....

The future is TOLLs/peak hour driving charges. There just isn't the space anymore and there isn't the funds to pay what is quite frankly outrageous sums of money 200 - 300 million per kilometre.

[Stillwater]

This article puts matters into perspective ... dogfight between state and feds over funding split for the Bruce Highway:

http://www.gympietimes.com.au/news/bruce-upgrade-10-years-away-govt-budget-gympie/1595922/

Latest section of highway upgrade cost $60 million a kilometre.

[Stillwater]

Quote from Mr Emerson's spokesperson in today's Brisbane Times website: "While the Brisbane Inner City Rail solution requires a tunnel from Yeerongpilly to Victoria Park our other priorities in southeast Queensland include the Gateway upgrade north as well as the Newman government's ongoing commitment to the Bruce Highway."

The Newman Government wants the federal government to pay for all of these projects.  The state government's 'priority' is to obtain and spend money from another level of government, or to have the private sector build more tunnels and tollways.

Nowhere in the 'Out of Crisis' Report does it make clear where the $1 billion on offer from the state government will be spent.  Does the $1 billion exist?  Where is it coming from?

[Jonno]

Ahh The ol "State Govt has invested in the wrong infrastructure and wants other levels of Govt to fix it" chestnut!!

Headline "Our Cities, transport network  and economy are not financially sustainable""

[ozbob]

The Australian --> Ditch cars for rail or 'cities will pay price'

AUSTRALIA'S cities will become less productive and less competitive than their global rivals unless governments abandon their fixation with building new roads and embrace rail projects.

The warning comes from three transport and sustainability academics, who say, given energy costs will soar over the next 50 years, the golden age of car-based cities is over ...

[somebody]

The Australian --> Ditch cars for rail or 'cities will pay price'

AUSTRALIA'S cities will become less productive and less competitive than their global rivals unless governments abandon their fixation with building new roads and embrace rail projects.

The warning comes from three transport and sustainability academics, who say, given energy costs will soar over the next 50 years, the golden age of car-based cities is over ...

That's just common sense.

[WTN]

Unfortunately I predict the opposite will occur. Urban sprawl will continue. More roads will be built or upgraded. New roads or upgraded roads will no longer cater for active transport. Railways (and busways to a much smaller extent) will be candidates for scrapping or conversion to motorways. If anything car dependency will rise, but kilometres driven per driver probably won't.

[Set in train]

This article puts matters into perspective ... dogfight between state and feds over funding split for the Bruce Highway:

http://www.gympietimes.com.au/news/bruce-upgrade-10-years-away-govt-budget-gympie/1595922/

Latest section of highway upgrade cost $60 million a kilometre.

This is what you reap when you sow gold plating of engineering standards plus the increase in construction costs/allowed.inefficiencies.

The Chinderah to Yelgun 4 lane greenfield freeway was built in 2002 for a total cost of $275M including a 10 yr maintenance contract. Length: 27.5km, yes $10M/km.

Construction costs for similar projects have increased SIX times.

Rail has not got off lightly either in the last ten years either.

[Stillwater]

The trends are disturbing:

http://www.racq.com.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/44734/Road_Congestion_in_South-East_Queensland_Fact_Sheet.pdf

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/infrastructure/mcu/soac_files/SOAC_Chapter_4.pdf

[Jonno]

The trends are disturbing:

http://www.racq.com.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/44734/Road_Congestion_in_South-East_Queensland_Fact_Sheet.pdf

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/infrastructure/mcu/soac_files/SOAC_Chapter_4.pdf

RACQ are so oblivious to the fact thier campaigning is creating this mess it is sickening.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Tunnel makes fast tracks

Oh dear ....

[HappyTrainGuy]

Maybe we might see Annabel on the southside after June next year

[colinw]

Maybe we might see Annabel on the southside after June next year

Are tunnel boring machines like that re-usable, or are they "one shot" affairs?

What a pity there isn't a TBM making its way north from Yeerongpilly at present.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Maybe we might see Annabel on the southside after June next year

Are tunnel boring machines like that re-usable, or are they "one shot" affairs?

What a pity there isn't a TBM making its way north from Yeerongpilly at present.

Both. IIRC small transportable parts and components were salvaged from the Airport link machines before they were burried in the tunnel (allowed for a quicker construction as both ends could be constructed as the TBMs dug towards each other) while the major/bulk of components are from the old Clem7 TBMs.

[red dragin]

Front bit varies depending on soil types etc.

Support gear is similar I believe.

Airport link front ends where buried to save digging a big hole to get them out. Ran parallel and met up with road header cut tunnel.

Chunnel had two British one buried so French ones could be salvaged. I think the Chunnel is built differently depending on country of origin.

[Jonno]

Maybe we might see Annabel on the southside after June next year

Only to start the Toowong to South Brisbane TransApex Tunnel.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> BrisConnections unitholder warning as PPB called in

  oh dear, you watching 'Car Do' ?

[Gazza]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRPEW2OMIU8&feature=related

1:10 min in the above shows such bollards at parliament house in Canberra.

Of course, nobodyis going to barrel into them at 60 km/h  so we wont see trucks getting smashed up. But they'd surely do well do simply prevent people driving through.

[Jonno]

Brisbanetimes --> BrisConnections unitholder warning as PPB called in

  oh dear, you watching 'Car Do' ?

Not even 6 months!!!!!!

[colinw]

Brisbane Times -> LNP federal MP slams Bruce Highway report

A federal Liberal National Party MP chosen to sit on the Queensland government's Bruce Highway taskforce says a report aimed at securing more federal funding is bullsh%t.

Federal Opposition Whip Warren Entsch has savaged the report, commissioned by Premier Campbell Newman's government.

Mr Entsch, the member for the north Queensland seat of Leichhardt, says it lacks detail, ignores the needs of communities along the Queensland coast, and the views of relevant federal MPs.

He says he'll take no further part in the process.

"I am buggered if I can see any value in our contribution and can only come (to) the conclusion that the invitation to be part of this group was only window dressing and from my perspective, a complete waste of time," Mr Entsch wrote in a letter obtained by AAP.

He referred to "bullsh%t motherhood statements that do NOT reflect the concerns of my region".

"In my view the report will be soundly and justifiably condemned."

The 10-page Bruce Highway Action Plan, released last month, took six months to compile.

The Newman government says it's a technical report undertaken by engineers, and prioritises improvement projects for the 1700 kilometre national highway.

The 10-year plan was presented to the Bruce Highway Crisis Management Group, of which Mr Entsch is a member.

It was intended as a tool to lobby the federal government to bring forward $5 billion in funding.

Mr Newman went to the election saying his government would spend $1 billion on the highway over the next decade, if the federal government fast-tracked the $5 billion.

Queensland Transport Minister Scott Emerson said he hoped Mr Entsch's email was not a sign a federal coalition government would fail to properly fund highway upgrades.

"The leader of the opposition, Tony Abbott, needs to make it clear to Queenslanders that he doesn't share the views of (Mr) Entsch," he said in a statement.

The RACQ motoring organisation, which also sits on the taskforce, said that if immediate action was not taken on the Bruce Highway, up to 400 people would die over the next 10 years.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/lnp-federal-mp-slams-bruce-highway-report-20121107-28xjv.html#ixzz2BV2DYTeO

[ozbob]

Minister for Transport and Main Roads
The Honourable Scott Emerson

All Federal MPs need to support the Bruce

The Queensland Government will ask for urgent clarification from the Federal Coalition that they will support Queensland's 1,700km lifeline – the Bruce Highway.

Minister for Transport and Main Roads Scott Emerson said comments by the Federal LNP's Member for Leichhardt Warren Entsch are concerning because the Federal Coalition is yet to commit extra funding for the Bruce highway.

"Warren's comments would be of concern to all Queenslanders and the future of the Bruce Highway," Mr Emerson said.

"I hope this is not a sign that a Federal Coalition government would back away from their responsibility to properly fund this national highway.

"The Bruce Highway is a critical issue for Queenslanders which is why we have committed an additional $1 billion over the next 10 years above the current base funding, provided the Federal Government also put up additional funding at the historic 80:20 per cent Federal-State split.

"Any Federal member – LNP or Labor – with constituents who use the Bruce Highway need to stand up make sure they are lobbying for funding for the Bruce."

Mr Entsch is quoted in The Australian Newspaper today saying: "I am buggered if I can see any value in our contribution and can only come to the conclusion that the invitation to be part of this group was only window-dressing and from my perspective, a complete waste of time... that do not reflect the concerns of my region."

The RACQ has predicted that if immediate action is not taken on the Bruce Highway up to 400 people will die over the next 10 years

"Last month the Queensland Government delivered our election commitment to develop a technical report undertaken by engineers not politicians to identify the key projects to improve safety, capacity and flood mitigation for the Bruce Highway," Mr Emerson said.

"It was presented to the Bruce Highway Crisis Management Group to lobby the Federal Government to adequately fund the Bruce."

[ENDS] 7 November 2012

=================

Warren's comments are of no concern to me Minister ...   

[Golliwog]

I'm all for fixing up problems with our regional road network, but it needs to be a multi-modal analysis. Yes we're always going to have trucks on our roads, but equally, there are a number of places where if rail was adequately supported it would drive a shift from road to rail.

[ozbob]

Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow

Moving bulk freight back onto rail would have a massive safety improvement on the Bruce Highway #qldpol #nobrainer

[ozbob]

Media release 24 May 2012

Queensland: Call for rail representation on Bruce Highway 'fix-it' team

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org), a web-based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers, wants the membership of the state government's Bruce Highway Crisis Management Group widened to include representation from the rail sector (1).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"RAIL Back On Track welcomes the state government's decision to form a Bruce Highway Management Group to report within six months on works to improve safety and alleviate flood problems and traffic congestion along this important transport corridor.  However, we believe its membership and objective is too narrow and excludes the proper examination of rail-based solutions for moving freight along Queensland's eastern seaboard.

"The government has failed to realise that an investment in rail is an investment in road and that the cheaper, more effective, solution often is to improve rail's efficiency through realignment and longer passing loops (points where trains pass each other) rather than building costly road bypasses around towns.  The two must be weighed up against each other, but the way this committee has been set up does not allow such comparisons.  The government has said we want road solutions only.

"Through its support for duplication of the railway track between Beerburrum and Nambour, even the RACQ acknowledges that an investment in rail improves road travelling conditions.  One 1500-metre train can take 100 semi-trailers off our roads.  During last year's floods, trains were able to get through largely on a flood-free alignment, but rail's capacity constraints were very evident.  At several points along the NCL, they are severe.  Without investment from the federal and state governments, rail can't present as the viable and cost-effective alternative.

"The amount of rail freight carried on the North Coast Line (NCL) is set to more than double over 20 years.  Provided capacity is improved, the freight carrying capacity of the NCL will expand from an estimated 4.5 mtpa (million tonnes per annum) in 2013 to 5.5 mtpa in 2020.  Failure to plan for longer freight trains travelling at faster speeds along the NCL will mean more trucks will have to take up the slack.  Safety will be compromised even further, despite the improvements to the Bruce Highway.

"On a per net tonne-kilometre (ntk) basis, moving freight by rail is between 13 and 23 times safer than shifting it by road, according to the Australasian Railways Association (2).  And there are some cargoes, such as chemicals and explosives associated with Queensland burgeoning mining and agricultural sectors, that should not be moved by road.  What community wants those things trucked past their houses and schools, no matter how improved the highway might be?

"All we are saying is that there is a balance to be struck between investment in road and rail, but the current membership and charter of the Bruce Highway Crisis Management Group doesn't achieve that balance.  From the outset, it's biased only to road-based solutions, which are not always appropriate.

"Since the former Queensland Government hived off rail freight to a privatised QR National, our government has lost focus on steel wheels on track as a viable, and valuable, means of solving the state's freight transport needs.

"Restore the balance is what we are saying, be prepared to invest in rail-based solutions where they are proven to be more advantageous than road, and test the theory by putting one or two rail experts on the Bruce Highway Crisis Management Group."

References:

1. http://statements.cabinet.qld.gov.au/MMS/StatementDisplaySingle.aspx?id=79009

2. Australasian Railway Association http://www.ara.net.au/site/index.php

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[colinw]

Once again, we appear to have fallen into the "mode first" trap, rather than performing analysis of the transport task and making appropriate choices as to where to invest.

Any reasonable strategy is going to have a balance of road and rail funding.

I am all for flood proofing the Bruce, and road safety improvements, but to do so while ignoring the sub-standard NCL alignment and poor efficiency caused by short crossing loops is nothing short of negligent.

Sadly, negligence seems to be the norm for Australian Governments, is evidently what we expect, and goes unpunished. We get what we vote for.

[somebody]

Once again, we appear to have fallen into the "mode first" trap, rather than performing analysis of the transport task and making appropriate choices as to where to invest.

Any reasonable strategy is going to have a balance of road and rail funding.

I am all for flood proofing the Bruce, and road safety improvements, but to do so while ignoring the sub-standard NCL alignment and poor efficiency caused by short crossing loops is nothing short of negligent.

Sadly, negligence seems to be the norm for Australian Governments, is evidently what we expect, and goes unpunished. We get what we vote for.

Colinw, RailBoT poster of the year.  Perhaps I am biased.

Regarding flood proofing though, I would think that is a matter of degree.  I don't think it would be needed to have the road open throughout Yasi, or the Jan 2011 floods.

[Golliwog]

Once again, we appear to have fallen into the "mode first" trap, rather than performing analysis of the transport task and making appropriate choices as to where to invest.

Any reasonable strategy is going to have a balance of road and rail funding.

I am all for flood proofing the Bruce, and road safety improvements, but to do so while ignoring the sub-standard NCL alignment and poor efficiency caused by short crossing loops is nothing short of negligent.

Sadly, negligence seems to be the norm for Australian Governments, is evidently what we expect, and goes unpunished. We get what we vote for.

+1

Simon: Designing for floods is done using statistics. You can't say that your making it flood 'proof' (I always hate it when politicians use that term), but you can use data on flood levels and design for it to be above a 1:100 year flood level (or higher/lower depending on what you want). Of course, what may be the 1:100 year riverine flood most likely will be completely different to a 1:100 year flash flood, so that would need to be taken into account. Not to mention then also accounting for water backing up due to whatever you've now put in to have your road above that level. Not to mention the scarcity of data in some places making some of this analysis a bit like guesswork. That said, some flood levels are picked arbitrarily, such as UQ, where the design flood level is the 2011 flood level plus 1m.

[colinw]

Regarding flood proofing though, I would think that is a matter of degree.  I don't think it would be needed to have the road open throughout Yasi, or the Jan 2011 floods.

Precisely!  Fixing up known flood trouble spots and low bridges is one thing, but spending billions of dollars to ride out exceptional events like Yasi would be unreasonable.  There needs to be a sensible level set for flood mitigation of road & rail infrastructure.  For FNQ that involves ensuring that links stay open in a normal wet season and potentially even 1 in 10 year events like a Cat 2 cyclone. At present they often do not, and in most years there will be closures of both the NCL and the Bruce Hwy due to the wet season. IMHO that is unacceptable, but even less acceptable would be fixing the highway so that the trucks could fly through unhindered while the trains were blocked by floodwaters.


With my usual 20/20 hindsight, "flood proofing" was the wrong term to use.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Revised case to be made for range crossing project

[somebody]

Brisbanetimes --> Revised case to be made for range crossing project

In spite of the road being hazardous, it is already dual carriageway.  How much better will the bypass be?  1:20 grades vs 1:10 is still a hazard, just less.  Is there really a case for $1bn+ to be spent on this before other projects?

[colinw]

The real point of this project is actually a bypass of Toowoomba.  Yes, the range is hazardous and trucks do come to grief on it, but the big problem in Toowoomba is the use of James St for the Warrego Hwy, and the intersection of the Warrego & New England highways right in the middle of town. There are also persistent problems where the Warrego Hwy doglegs from the top of the range south along Cohoe St and the swings into James St, including truck rollovers due to poor camber which has never been adequately corrected.

I am not averse to a Toowoomba bypass (which is what this really is), but just like the NCL & Bruce it needs to be pointed out that yet again we're talking about a massive road project while the rail line remains on a slow & ineffective 19th century alignment. In this case we're talking a rail line which is approaching the limit of its capacity due to a rapidly growing coal traffic which has already displaced most of the general freight & grain onto the road.

Just like the Bruce, symptoms are being patched, with a "mode first" blinkered viewpoint that is failing to analyse the over all transport task for the Darling Downs & Warrego region.

I also suspect that in the Government & QLD Transport's myopic worldview, the recent approval for construction of the Wandoan to Moura line removes the need to ever do anything about the rail crossing of the Toowoomba range. This is despite the fact that the Miles - Wandoan branch remains effectively mothballed and has been been suggested for outright closure just as it has the potential to become part of an inland mainline from the Western Downs to Gladstone.

I despair.

[Golliwog]

Brisbanetimes --> Revised case to be made for range crossing project

In spite of the road being hazardous, it is already dual carriageway.  How much better will the bypass be?  1:20 grades vs 1:10 is still a hazard, just less.  Is there really a case for $1bn+ to be spent on this before other projects?

The listed aims on the TSRC Treasury page (http://www.treasury.qld.gov.au/projects-queensland/projects/toowoomba-range-crossing/index.shtml) are as follows:

The TSRC will meet the following objectives:

    address a recognised constraint in the National Land Transport Network by improving the efficiency of freight movements and encouraging economic development
    improve transport capacity over the range to meet future growth needs in the region
    improve community amenity, safety and liveability by redirecting heavy vehicle traffic away from the current range crossing and town centre.

Once again, focusing on keeping freight on the roads.

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Airport Link business will fail - expert

You don't say ...   

[Jonno]

Couriermail --> Airport Link business will fail - expert

You don't say ...   

I did SAY!!!  :-)

No doubt the Lord mayor will come out and say that Legac Way will not follow Airport Link and Clem 7 because they have forecast low traffic volumes... which really means that the rate and tax payers are subsidising the tunnel either through operational or capital offset. 

[ozbob]

Professor John Goldberg is presently on 612 ABC Radio with Steve Austin, should be on the blog later.

He has called the road toll/tunnel con for what it is .... bullsh%t basically.

[ozbob]

612 ABC Brisbane radio Mornings with Steve Austin

--> http://blogs.abc.net.au/queensland/2012/11/is-brisconnections-in-trouble.html

Is BrisConnections in trouble?

12 November 2012 , 10:07 AM by Sally Rope

Is the company that runs the Brisbane Airport Link headed for collapse?

Dr John Goldberg served on a New South Wales Parliamentary inquiry into Sydney toll roads seven years ago. He believes BrisConnections, which runs the Airport Link tunnel, is heading for 'inevitable financial collapse'.

The toll road cost nearly five billion dollars to build but it hasn't been as popular as investors were expecting. Steve Austin spoke with Dr. Goldberg this morning...

[ozbob]

Would not be surprised to see more legal actions due to the road con ...

More rail tunnels needed now!   

[ozbob]

http://resources0.news.com.au/images/2011/08/22/1226119/949916-link.jpg

From http://www.couriermail.com.au/ipad/airport-link-wont-revise-usage-guess/story-fn6ck2gb-1226119952171

Snake?   

[ozbob]

Brisconnections has suspended trading on the stock exchange.

Report on 612 ABC Brisbane radio.  Two none executive directors have also resigned.