Roads - articles and discussion

[#Metro]

Doomben Line thread http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4852.0

[James]

What was wrong with Airport Link?

If the purpose is to reduce traffic, slap a toll on it or remove the connection to the Gateway Motorway. Both would reduce traffic dramatically.

Apparently APL and Kingsford Smith Drive widening are "two projects", instead of the original project to just turn KSD into a double-decker road.

I still disagree with the upgrade. I may be more amenable if there were T3 lanes, or if Airport Link was being well used. To be frank, if the whingers of Brisbane want to sit if traffic on KSD when they could quite easily use Airport Link, they are welcome to. KSD is no longer the "horrifically congested road" that it once was thanks to projects like APL and the ICB.

[verbatim9]

The bikeway is well needed. I have to support the upgrade for that and the potential Hamilton City Glider

[ozbob]

The bikeway is well needed. I have to support the upgrade for that and the potential Hamilton City Glider

You are kidding right?  A bikeway can be done easily, why waste a near billion dollars.

High frequency bus can be done right now.  BCC is using public transport as a con ' transit wash ', yet again.

Even the RACQ has said there are much more urgent priorities than KSD.

Just more mess on mess I am afraid.   They make their bed, let them lie in it ..

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Crossroads for Kingsford Smith Drive plans

" ... Likely to have new "CityGlider" high frequency bus services ... "


^ not will.  Transit wash ... 

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Brisbane roads: Kingsford Smith Drive upgrade in limbo as Labor talks compensation

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

18th November 2015

Re: Kingsford Smith Drive - Just upgrade the bus!

Good Morning,

BCC is in fine form again, using  ' transit wash ' to help garner support for the Kingsford Smith Drive upgrade.

Brisbanetimes --> Crossroads for Kingsford Smith Drive plans

" ... Likely to have new "CityGlider" high frequency bus services ... "

It is worth noting again the lies pedaled re Legacy Way and public transport.  We were told there would be ' 2000 express buses daily ' ...

SEQ: Legacy way's 2000 daily express buses - we don't believe it Campbell!
> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=7798.0

Still waiting, and incompetent Council and Governments could not even manage to connect Legacy Way to the Inner Northern Busway.

Brisbane, and SEQ is headlong into massive transport failure.  Widening KSD does little to avert this looming terminal gridlock.

Farce!

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

18th November 2015

Kingsford Smith Drive: Lord Mayor should release traffic modelling

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers calls for Lord Mayor Graham Quirk to publish the traffic modelling and all underlying input assumptions for the Kingsford Smith Drive project on Brisbane City Council's website.

RAIL Back on Track raises a number of concerns about the $650 million Kingsford Smith Drive (KSD) project.

Firstly, upgraded bus services could happen now, without the project. No road widening was required for the Blue or Maroon CityGliders, so why is it suddenly required here? Upgrading bus services and the Kingsford Smith Drive project are independent and logically separate things.

Secondly, why is this project required? Why can't traffic use the new AirportLink, which cost $4.8 BN? If the toll is the problem, an alternative use of $650 million is to pay to reduce or remove the toll. Improvements to the Doomben rail line, bus upgrades, congestion tolling Kingsford Smith Drive are also alternatives.

We are skeptical of the Lord Mayor's claim that 30,000 extra vehicles will use the road. Models are projections, not facts. What were the input assumptions? Bus lines exist in international cities that handle 40,000 (Toronto) to 60,000 passengers (Hamburg) per day, so in any case such increases can be handled by improved public transport.

Thirdly, the KSD project will cause problems for future bus planning. There is no right turn into Racecourse Road from Kingsford Smith Drive in the project. This turn is necessary to enable buses in the future to run along Macarthur Ave and then access Albion Station.

Fourthly, why are the new lanes on Kingsford Smith Drive not T2 lanes? Lord Mayor, buses need priority, not priority for single occupant cars!

Unexplained extra money appears in the latest BCC bus budget. Is the Lord Mayor planning to announce a new CityGlider before the 2016 election? Will it be a Hamilton CityGlider, a BulimbaGlider or a CentenaryGlider?

We call on the Lord Mayor to publicly release the traffic modelling, including all input assumptions by publishing it on Brisbane City Council's website. Any kind of traffic modelling to justify any road project must come under extreme public scrutiny given the spectacular traffic modelling failures for the Clem 7 and AirportLink tunnel projects.

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

References:

Crossroads for Kingsford Smith Drive plans
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/labor-would-waste-129-million-if-it-cancelled-plans-to-widen-kingsford-smith-drive-quirk-20151117-gl13er.html

Toronto Transit Commission Bus lines, Estimated daily usage on average business day
https://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Operating_Statistics/2014/Section_One.jsp

(All are mixed traffic, surface running bus lines)
35 Jane (bus) ... 45,700
36 Finch West (bus) ... 44,000
52 Lawrence West (bus) ... 43,900
29 Dufferin (bus) ... 39,700
25 Don Mills (bus) ... 39,100

MetroBus Line 5, Hamburg 60,000 per day.
http://www.via-bus.de/metrobus-linie-5/ (in German)

[ozbob]

Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow 3 hours ago

. @Team_Quirk @Rod4Bris @BenPennings #qldpol > https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/666657568270348288 ...

[#Metro]

A "commercial-in-confidence" business case was prepared in 2013 and updated, showing the project has a cost-benefit ratio of 1.09, meaning it provides economic and community benefits, a mayoral spokesman said.

A cost-benefit ratio of 1.09 is shocking considering that there are usually error ranges on the BCR due to uncertainties. One wonders what the NPV is. For reference a BCR of 1 indicates a project breaks even in terms of costs/social benefits (mostly time savings).

Another example of BCC ignoring BCR - just like BaT, bad on paper but they still back it. Does this BCR include or exclude 'wider economic benefits', also known as WEBs. IMHO WEBs are a bit dodgy and their inclusion can be used as 'filler' for a poor project. What was the discount rate used??

[#Metro]

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/kingsford-smith-drive--the-debate-continues-20151118-gl1v5k.html

Kingsford Smith Drive – daily traffic numbers
-          2004 – 65,600 per day;
-          July 2012 – Airport Link tunnel opens;
-          July 2012 – traffic drops to 48,000 per day;
-          November 2015 – increases to 62,600 per day
-          June 2031 – estimated to be 75,000 per day.

There was a toll-free period on the AirportLink tunnel. Reducing or removing that toll would reduce the traffic by say 20 000....

https://www.airportlinkm7.com.au/about-airportlinkm7/news/articles/airportlinkm7-extends-toll-free-period-and-discounts-opening-tolls.aspx

The opening plan announced today comprises:

Four weeks toll free period for all motorists;
An additional two months toll free (three months in total) for all motorists with a tag or account with any Australian toll road;
Introductory toll for six months for cars of $2.00 for the two shorter sections - city (Bowen Hills) to northern suburbs (Kedron) and northern suburbs to airport (Toombul) - and $2.50 for the full length (city to airport);
For a further six months, tolls will continue to be discounted to $2.90 for cars for the two shorter sections - city (Bowen Hills) to northern suburbs (Kedron) and northern suburbs to airport (Toombul) - and $3.75 for the full length (city to airport);
Tolls as set by the concession deed with the State of Queensland will apply
after 15 months ($3.67 for cars for the shorter sections and $4.90 for the full
length).

For all other classes of vehicles, a 15 month free and discount regime will also apply.

[Jonno]

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/kingsford-smith-drive--the-debate-continues-20151118-gl1v5k.html

Kingsford Smith Drive – daily traffic numbers
-          2004 – 65,600 per day;
-          July 2012 – Airport Link tunnel opens;
-          July 2012 – traffic drops to 48,000 per day;
-          November 2015 – increases to 62,600 per day
-          June 2031 – estimated to be 75,000 per day.

There was a toll-free period on the AirportLink tunnel. Reducing or removing that toll would reduce the traffic by say 20 000....

https://www.airportlinkm7.com.au/about-airportlinkm7/news/articles/airportlinkm7-extends-toll-free-period-and-discounts-opening-tolls.aspx

The opening plan announced today comprises:

Four weeks toll free period for all motorists;
An additional two months toll free (three months in total) for all motorists with a tag or account with any Australian toll road;
Introductory toll for six months for cars of $2.00 for the two shorter sections - city (Bowen Hills) to northern suburbs (Kedron) and northern suburbs to airport (Toombul) - and $2.50 for the full length (city to airport);
For a further six months, tolls will continue to be discounted to $2.90 for cars for the two shorter sections - city (Bowen Hills) to northern suburbs (Kedron) and northern suburbs to airport (Toombul) - and $3.75 for the full length (city to airport);
Tolls as set by the concession deed with the State of Queensland will apply
after 15 months ($3.67 for cars for the shorter sections and $4.90 for the full
length).

For all other classes of vehicles, a 15 month free and discount regime will also apply.

2 words - Induced Demand - but why should we let reality get in the way of a good ribbon cutting ceremony/opportunity

[Jonno]

A "commercial-in-confidence" business case was prepared in 2013 and updated, showing the project has a cost-benefit ratio of 1.09, meaning it provides economic and community benefits, a mayoral spokesman said.

A cost-benefit ratio of 1.09 is shocking considering that there are usually error ranges on the BCR due to uncertainties. One wonders what the NPV is. For reference a BCR of 1 indicates a project breaks even in terms of costs/social benefits (mostly time savings).

Another example of BCC ignoring BCR - just like BaT, bad on paper but they still back it. Does this BCR include or exclude 'wider economic benefits', also known as WEBs. IMHO WEBs are a bit dodgy and their inclusion can be used as 'filler' for a poor project. What was the discount rate used??

Guarantee that the Business Case does not include any consideration for Induced Demand!!!!

[ozbob]

When the RACQ says ' Widening Kingsford Smith Drive should not be Brisbane City Council's first traffic priority, Queensland's RACQ insisted on Wednesday. '

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/kingsford-smith-drive--the-debate-continues-20151118-gl1v5k.html

it is clear that the KSD upgrade is a farce ...

We have outlined our concerns from the PT perspective.  I have a feeling that KSD might just be a bridge too far for Quirk et al.

Harding has outlined a comprehensive approach to address problems on a wider scale, rather than just gold-plate KSD.  This will have resonance with the community.

Every day it becomes clearer to me how out of touch BCC is in actuality.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

19th November 2015

Kingsford Smith Drive project is a boondoggle!

Good Morning,

When the RACQ suggests there are higher road priorities than KSD upgrade, then you just know something is not quite right.

Data published by Brisbanetimes today, confirms our worst fears.  The KSD upgrade project is a  boondoggle ...

Kingsford Smith Drive - the debate continues

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/kingsford-smith-drive--the-debate-continues-20151118-gl1v5k.html

It is good to note that both the Greens and ALP Lord Mayor Candidates are opposing this boondoggle project.

BCC elections might just be the  positive turning point in better transport planning - roads and public transport for Brisbane that is desperately needed.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

*A boondoggle is a project that is considered a useless waste of both time and money, yet is often continued due to extraneous policy or political motivations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boondoggle

Sent to all outlets:

18th November 2015

Kingsford Smith Drive: Lord Mayor should release traffic modelling

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers calls for Lord Mayor Graham Quirk to publish the traffic modelling and all underlying input assumptions for the Kingsford Smith Drive project on Brisbane City Council's website.

RAIL Back on Track raises a number of concerns about the $650 million Kingsford Smith Drive (KSD) project.

Firstly, upgraded bus services could happen now, without the project. No road widening was required for the Blue or Maroon CityGliders, so why is it suddenly required here? Upgrading bus services and the Kingsford Smith Drive project are independent and logically separate things.

Secondly, why is this project required? Why can't traffic use the new AirportLink, which cost $4.8 BN? If the toll is the problem, an alternative use of $650 million is to pay to reduce or remove the toll. Improvements to the Doomben rail line, bus upgrades, congestion tolling Kingsford Smith Drive are also alternatives.

We are skeptical of the Lord Mayor's claim that 30,000 extra vehicles will use the road. Models are projections, not facts. What were the input assumptions? Bus lines exist in international cities that handle 40,000 (Toronto) to 60,000 passengers (Hamburg) per day, so in any case such increases can be handled by improved public transport.

Thirdly, the KSD project will cause problems for future bus planning. There is no right turn into Racecourse Road from Kingsford Smith Drive in the project. This turn is necessary to enable buses in the future to run along Macarthur Ave and then access Albion Station.

Fourthly, why are the new lanes on Kingsford Smith Drive not T2 lanes? Lord Mayor, buses need priority, not priority for single occupant cars!

Unexplained extra money appears in the latest BCC bus budget. Is the Lord Mayor planning to announce a new CityGlider before the 2016 election? Will it be a Hamilton CityGlider, a BulimbaGlider or a CentenaryGlider?

We call on the Lord Mayor to publicly release the traffic modelling, including all input assumptions by publishing it on Brisbane City Council's website. Any kind of traffic modelling to justify any road project must come under extreme public scrutiny given the spectacular traffic modelling failures for the Clem 7 and AirportLink tunnel projects.

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

References:

Crossroads for Kingsford Smith Drive plans
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/labor-would-waste-129-million-if-it-cancelled-plans-to-widen-kingsford-smith-drive-quirk-20151117-gl13er.html

Toronto Transit Commission Bus lines, Estimated daily usage on average business day
https://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Operating_Statistics/2014/Section_One.jsp

(All are mixed traffic, surface running bus lines)
35 Jane (bus) ... 45,700
36 Finch West (bus) ... 44,000
52 Lawrence West (bus) ... 43,900
29 Dufferin (bus) ... 39,700
25 Don Mills (bus) ... 39,100

MetroBus Line 5, Hamburg 60,000 per day.
http://www.via-bus.de/metrobus-linie-5/ (in German)

[ozbob]

^ BCC should not sign the contract until after the elections.

[ozbob]

Media Statements
Minister for Main Roads, Road Safety and Ports and Minister for Energy and Water Supply
The Honourable Mark Bailey

Sunday, November 22, 2015

Emergency vehicles get priority at traffic lights across the state

Emergency services vehicles will reach Queenslanders faster with the state wide roll out of congestion-busting technology, giving priority to fire trucks and ambulances in emergencies.

Minister for Main Roads and Road Safety Mark Bailey said the Emergency Vehicle Priority (EVP) technology would be rolled out across the state after successful implementation in Townsville, Bundaberg and South East Queensland.

"For example, on the Sunshine Coast, 19 intersections along Kawana Way have now been EVP enabled and will be operational before the new Sunshine Coast Public University Hospital opens in late 2016," Mr Bailey said.

"The technology has proven successful with EVP-equipped vehicles on the Gold Coast showing travel time reductions by up to 26 per cent.

"This potentially life-saving technology is scheduled to be progressively released state wide over the next four years, starting in Toowoomba and Mackay next year.

"Cairns, Hervey Bay, Maryborough, Rockhampton and Gladstone are next in line as part of the Palaszczuk Government's $13.5 million investment in this technology."

Vehicles fitted with EVP are given the most direct route to their destination as soon as a job is logged. The system provides a green traffic signal to approaching emergency vehicles when safe to do so.

"Rollout priority has been carried out in conjunction with Emergency Services to determine the routes and locations where emergency vehicles would have greatest benefit," Mr Bailey said.

"This is a large-scale rollout that will significantly boost the number of intersections across the state fitted with the technology."

Minister for Health and Ambulance Services Cameron Dick said the EVP technology would enhance safety on the road and cut response times to emergencies.

"Every second is critical in an emergency, and for ambulance officers trying to reach and transport those in need of urgent medical attention, each second spent can mean the difference between life and death," he said.

"This technology will significantly reduce potentially dangerous traffic situations and make for a safer drive for all road users."

There are currently more than 800 intersections, 215 ambulances and 69 fire appliances equipped for EVP across the state. The project also covers the fit out of an additional 692 emergency services vehicles.

ENDS

[ozbob]

Twitter

ABC News Queensland ‏@abcnews_qld 22s

Brisbane's troubled Airportlink sold for $2.8b less than construction cost Pix:AAP http://ab.co/1P4wogt 

[#Metro]

That's an enormous destruction of value. Making a tunnel is not free - it ties up labour and resources that could be used elsewhere. People put their money into super funds etc and now they take a hit.

Goes to show just how 'vital' these toll roads were - had mantras about how absolutely ESSENTIAL they were being shoved down everyone's throat. Well well well...

[ozbob]

It is difficult to trust anyone these days when it comes to roads ...

People are mobilising eg. EWLink now WestConnex   ... Governments will not release full business cases etc. this then of course suggests that the projects might have flaws ..

Questions are rightfully asked ' who is the road actually going to benefit?  Citizens or toll operators? ' ...

Governments have spurned any real claim to trust.

I only trust Missy, my woofer these days.   

[Simon]

Couriermail Quest --> Wynnum Rd upgrade: Majority of residents say no to dedicated bus lanes, but Councillor Shayne Sutton says survey a 'farce'

What Brisbanites want more than anything is cheaper fares. Link the bus lanes to cheaper fares and it would be interesting what sort of answer you would get. Most people answering the survey won't use transit purely because they see it as too expensive and assume that the majority of other people will do the same.

Really, to be any good the bus lane needs to be continuous in the AM peak from after Canning Bridge to where Shaftston Ave joins Main St. I say add an additional lane inbound to achieve it. Once you do that, the bus then starts to provide a service with a competitive travel time.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Kingsford Smith upgrade would save a minute

Much prefer to see this cut back and the money put in to grade separation.  But hey, this BrisBANE, BCC doesn't care a rats behind for the masses ...

Even the RACQ is against this KSD project.

[#Metro]

At least the BCR is (just) positive.

I think there would be more benefits if the additional lanes were T2 lanes. That would increase the benefits, through improved bus services.

The image shows no right turn into Racecourse Rd. That needs to change and a turning lane put in. Will BCC listen? Probably not.

[red dragin]

At least the BCR is (just) positive.

I think there would be more benefits if the additional lanes were T2 lanes. That would increase the benefits, through improved bus services.

The image shows no right turn into Racecourse Rd. That needs to change and a turning lane put in. Will BCC listen? Probably not.

There currently isn't a right hand turn inbound at Racecourse Rd. The right turn is down at Riverview Terrace. If they change the intersection at Rossiter Parade to give Riverview Terrace right of way, buses should be able to navigate that path.

[ozbob]

Couriermail Quest --> Legacy Way leads to 'hazard' at Herston as cars, trucks and buses queue in road shoulder

THE trial of the P443 service from Moggill to the City via Legacy Way has exposed a road safety flaw ahead of the anticipated extension of services using the tunnel.

Brisbane City Council is calling on TransLink to allow five more westside services access to Legacy Way, which loop back to the city via the exit at Royal Brisbane Hospital.

Moggill's Darren Montesin said buses had become a "safety issue" at the exit.

"Cars are able to pull over to the road shoulder and just fit in past the white line. But the buses are wider and have to straddle the white line, causing a hazard," he said.

Under Queensland road rules, a driver must not drive on or over a continuous white line including road shoulder lines.

Rail Back on Track head Robert Dow said it was "never really designed for buses to take this route".

"They need to sort it," Mr Dow said.

[ozbob]

The Chronicle --> Bypass a reality as Deputy PM launches construction

Deputy Prime Minister Warren Truss says the Toowoomba Second Range Crossing will transform the city and give it back to the people.

He made the comments at a sod turning ceremony to officially launch work on the project.

"The crossing has been talked about for years, for decades," he said.

"I'm delighted it's coming to the stage where work will begin." ...

[ozbob]

Media Statements
Minister for Main Roads, Road Safety and Ports and Minister for Energy and Water Supply
The Honourable Mark Bailey

Monday, December 07, 2015

First sod turned on historic Toowoomba Second Range Crossing

Minister for Main Roads Mark Bailey turned the first sod on the Toowoomba Second Range Crossing (TSRC) today, marking the start of works on the $1.6 billion road project.

Minister Bailey said flow-on benefits to related industries and the local economy would follow because the contractor Nexus had pledged to source more than 75 per cent of goods and services locally.

"The TSRC will not only deliver long-term benefits to Queensland, but will also support an estimated 1800 direct and indirect jobs in the Toowoomba region during the three-year design and construction phase," Mr Bailey said.

"The Palaszczuk Government is committed to creating local jobs now and for the future and that's why we are committing over $321 million to this important project.

"It is the type of infrastructure project we need to assist Queensland to improve the efficiency of freight movements and this will encourage future economic development in the region.

"Nexus' contract covers the full design and construction of the TSRC, including road and pavements, cuttings, structures, and underground services, plus the 25-year operations contract of the toll road.

"Cultural heritage and flora and fauna surveys are also well advanced along the corridor between Helidon Spa to the east and Athol, west of Toowoomba.

"Nexus will also begin procurement and site establishment before the end of the year, with major construction works expected to start in April 2016.

"This will allow over-dimension vehicles and all classes of vehicles carrying dangerous good, such as explosives, to use the bypass and not the city's streets."

Heavy vehicles will have the capacity to avoid 18 sets of traffic lights in Toowoomba, saving them up to 40 minutes each way.

The Australian Government has committed up to $1.285 billion to fund the project and the Queensland Government has committed $321 million.

The Toowoomba Second Range Crossing is expected to open in late 2018.

ENDS

[ozbob]

Couriermail Quest --> Brisbane City Council Opposition Leader Milton Dick "surprised" as Lord Mayor Quirk signs "gold-plated" $650 million contract for Kingsford-Smith Drive project

[hU0N]

Unpaywalled link for anyone on mobile.

link here

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Brisbane's worst crash blackspots revealed by RACQ

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Bruce Highway campaign gains steam but funding roadblocks

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> New data confirms the Pacific Motorway will be in gridlock before 2020

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> New project to avoid Tuesday's M1 crash chaos

[James]

The issue with the M1 is a deep-rooted one. I don't accept the premise that one accident should be the reason to build a whole new motorway. The same thing happens with the railway - a power line falls on to a train, the entire GC line gets thrown into chaos. Yet rail commuters just get told to suck it up, rather than build a whole new line elsewhere.

What needs to happen is that the railway line needs to be made competitive. Already the railway line is at a disadvantage to access the major destinations, as people are forced to get off a bus and onto a train, rather than simply get on to the M1, and also access PT from Brisbane (already a speed disadvantage).

Whether this is achieved by speeding up the existing alignment or routing the railway line via the M1/existing busway corridor between Beenleigh and the CBD remains to be seen - but right now, what the train does is akin to a car exiting at Beenleigh and taking Logan/Beenleigh/Fairfield Road all the way to the CBD. If you did that in a car, people would ask what's wrong with you. Any solution will cost billions though.

I suspect the new road will end up being built - it is the easy way out.

[#Metro]

How ridiculous. Where is this new motorway going? Parallel to the old one? 

Honestly, I think it would be better if we lobbied for HSR to both the Gold and Sunshine Coasts. Tounge in Cheek.

[SurfRail]

We don't need a new motorway - we need to remove the underlying demand for people to use the M1 by building up the local road network in the Coomera area sensibly.  At present, the M1 is trying to do too many jobs for it to work.

The railway has little if anything to do with this issue.  Speeding up the trains is going to attract people out of their cars but it is also going to spur new intercity patronage that didn't previously exist as well. 

Brisbane to Gold Coast demand alone certainly doesn't justify a new road and probably won't ever.

The issue is that people expect a free flowing road at all times of the day, which is simply unfeasible.

[#Metro]

There is a true and tested way to reduce traffic. Slap a toll on it.

Even a small one - traffic will go down massively.

Look, Clem 7 and AirportLink went bankrupt because once the free period was over, traffic fell dramatically!

All you need is some cameras, a control centre and gantry - voila!!

[HappyTrainGuy]

There is a true and tested way to reduce traffic. Slap a toll on it.

Even a small one - traffic will go down massively.

Look, Clem 7 and AirportLink went bankrupt because once the free period was over, traffic fell dramatically!

All you need is some cameras, a control centre and gantry - voila!!

There are other factors as to why the clem7 and airport link failed. For starters the estimated traffic was well under expectation. The second most reason I can see it failing was cross town trips through the two became way to expensive when combined (I would have preferred it to be operated by one toll operator instead of two). But most importantly the speed benefit isn't that great outside of peak hour. And the speed limit in the tunnel is a joke. 60kph in a straight line and then bumped up to 70 for a short period??? Mt Glorious-Mt Nebo has a 70kph speed limit and that's a tight, twisty, up and down road. I timed it a few times and I think the time difference (early morning/afternoons on the weekend) between the tunnel and going via the city was around or just over the 4 minute mark slower off peak despite having to use 20 sets of lights. When the toll is something just over $10 for a car for the smallest of time savings.... Well. And Kedron to Bowen Hills? Hardly any time savings depending on what exit you combine it with. In the afternoon peak hour Kedron-Bowen Hills is a very fast run along gympie road even since they stuffed up Lutyche with the busway as everyone is heading out of the city. Kedron entry/exit for airport link just wasn't that far enough out of the city for it to be a big winner. If it wanted to be really popular it had to go further out along Gympie road to avoid the congestion of Kedron-Chermside created due to the traffic lights. Once the downward spiral began the operators were put in a difficult and very smart position. By raising the toll and losing traffic they made more than what they were making with lower tolls and more traffic. There is potential for those two tunnels to be very very popular but..... its been very poorly mismanaged as to what the public would want to use it for. Now that they are in debt its not going to be getting better.

[#Metro]

There are other factors as to why the clem7 and airport link failed.

I don't deny the presence of other factors. However, they do not explain why the tunnel traffic suddenly fell once the free period was over.

The introduction of pricing *does* explain this fall.

You make a good point about sequential tolling on a continuous network. Paying twice for two sections on a continuous and unbroken

car journey is essentially a transfer penalty. The smart thing to do would be for one company to buy out the other company and charge

a single toll. Failing this, a discount or uniform pricing between the two toll tunnel operators.

[SurfRail]

^ It's a distance based fare, not a transfer.  If you don't drive through one, you don't get charged for it.

It's more fair than public transport fares in a sense because there is zero flagfall component (that comes from a motorists other expenses such as rego).