Roads - articles and discussion

[ozbob]

Twitter

Amazing Maps ‏@Amazing_Maps 2h

World vehicles per 1000 population Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_per_capita ... - http://t.co/fK04tq73zw

[ozbob]

Twitter

Penny Dahl (Cameron) ‏@Pennycopter

Sympathy for anyone stuck in this horror each morning, Western Fwy at Moggill Rd through Indooroopilly #bnetraffic http://t.co/FOMDcV6l9S

[ozbob]

Just goes from worse to hopeless ...   

[ozbob]

^

http://translink.com.au/travel-information/service-notices/6596/details

Delays: Western Freeway, inbound

Last updated: 8.03am Tuesday 11 February 2014

Buses travelling on Western Freeway, inbound, are delayed up to 20 minutes, due to heavy traffic congestion.

[SteelPan]

KSD upgrade will be awesome and very much needed, road can't cope as is!   

[ozbob]

Twitter

Penny Dahl (Cameron) ‏@Pennycopter 51m

Ugh. Bruce Hwy a shocker already southbound past Anzac Ave at Mango Hill #bnetraffic http://t.co/AJnfS9aAaI

[Derwan]

Goodness. There is a reason why KSD is still congested. It is because people are continuing to use Kingsford Smith Drive to go to and from the Airport/Gateway Motorway from City (and beyond), when there are tolled options available to serve the same purpose. I see no reason why the upgrade should occur. If people wish to sit in congestion instead of paying a toll which costs as much as a cup of coffee, so be it.

I am strongly opposed to it. If all these people using KSD to get to the airport used Airport Link, we would not have congestion issues on Kingsford Smith Drive.

If the tolls were reasonable, I would agree.  That cost of "a cup of coffee" adds up.  Travelling in both directions every weekday (for example) would cost $44.80 per week.  That's on top of petrol, etc.  (Of course catching public transport would be better for a regular commuter.)

I used to use the AirportLink tunnel whenever I travelled towards the city.  (I live in Boondall.)  However after a particularly busy weekend playing "taxi" and socialising cost me around $50 in tolls, I decided to start avoiding the tolls unless it was particularly busy or I was in a hurry... or if I just felt lazy at the time.

The KSD upgrade is required because of a lack of a REASONABLY PRICED alternative.  Make AirportLink Tunnel $2 and watch congestion drop!

Speaking of tolls, I just got back from a few days in Sydney.  Followed TomTom's directions to the Blue Mountains on the 14th then Bondi (from the north side) on the 15th.  Ended up spending $36.27 in tolls!  And I thought Brisbane was bad!!

[ozbob]

Twitter

Penny Dahl (Cameron) ‏@Pennycopter

The Logan Mwy daily carpark westbound from Berrinba to Drewvale. Would you pay a toll to sit in that? #bnetraffic http://t.co/kpsoNJOAyL

[pangwen]

Twitter

Penny Dahl (Cameron) ‏@Pennycopter

The Logan Mwy daily carpark westbound from Berrinba to Drewvale. Would you pay a toll to sit in that? #bnetraffic http://t.co/kpsoNJOAyL

Berrinba to Drewvale is actually an untolled section of the Logan Mwy. I'd suggest that if the Wembley Rd tolls were reinstated, the carpark would rapidly disappear from the Logan Mwy (and jump onto Browns Plains Road). Interestingly, the Logan Mwy eastbound at the Beaudesert Rd exit still has a "Last Exit Before Toll" sign, a reminder of when there was a toll at Wembley Road.


Speaking of roads on the southside, the Kessels Road underpass will finally open tomorrow (Monday 24 February): http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Projects/M/Mains%20Road%20and%20Kessels%20Road%20intersection%20upgrade/kesselsrdunderpassopening240214.pdf

Works will still continue until mid-year (the project includes the addition of turn lanes and bus jumps on Mains Road), but the fact that the tunnel is done is a pretty big achievement.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Road rage affects 77 per cent of Brisbane drivers

[ozbob]

Twitter

Penny Dahl (Cameron) ‏@Pennycopter

Open for business! The brand new Kessels Rd tunnel running under Mains Rd at Macgregor, traffic a treat #bnetraffic http://t.co/UwjYw9SoB7

[Jonno]

Let the change in travel behaviour that will eventually congest this new capacity ........begin!!

[aldonius]

This project was super sensible IMHO. Grade separating (at least partially) two of the busiest roads in Brisbane.

[James]

This project was super sensible IMHO. Grade separating (at least partially) two of the busiest roads in Brisbane.

Agreed. This was the busiest non grade-separated intersection in Brisbane. I can't think of a busier one (Gympie Rd/Stafford Rd would come close I'd imagine). The area Mains Rd/Kessels Rd services is not getting any smaller either...

If we're going to get back on to the tolls discussion:

If the tolls were reasonable, I would agree.  That cost of "a cup of coffee" adds up.  Travelling in both directions every weekday (for example) would cost $44.80 per week.  That's on top of petrol, etc.  (Of course catching public transport would be better for a regular commuter.)

I used to use the AirportLink tunnel whenever I travelled towards the city.  (I live in Boondall.)  However after a particularly busy weekend playing "taxi" and socialising cost me around $50 in tolls, I decided to start avoiding the tolls unless it was particularly busy or I was in a hurry... or if I just felt lazy at the time.

The KSD upgrade is required because of a lack of a REASONABLY PRICED alternative.  Make AirportLink Tunnel $2 and watch congestion drop!

Speaking of tolls, I just got back from a few days in Sydney.  Followed TomTom's directions to the Blue Mountains on the 14th then Bondi (from the north side) on the 15th.  Ended up spending $36.27 in tolls!  And I thought Brisbane was bad!!

Derwan - the reason why you probably didn't find any benefit of the tunnel in Brisbane is because it was a weekend - congestion would have been low to minimal.

We need to remember this road upgrade is NOT occurring because KSD looks ugly, or because the 300 needs bus lanes, but because we are needing more road capacity in peak hour. Airport Link should be used during peak hour - yet the reason people refuse is because Brisbane people refuse to pay tolls, essentially. I would happily use AirportLink when going to the airport - for the $4.48 it is to go Airport - Bowen Hills, that's decent value.

Re: Sydney - but you see Derwan, Sydney people just pay them and get on with life. In peak they just accept the fact that by paying them, they will at least be faster than someone on foot. I guess that is another pitfall of Brisbane - our traffic (for the most part) is not cactus yet. Unless it rains. If it rains, you might as well get out one of those blow-up plastic boats and row to your destination. It'll be faster (Coronation Drive, anybody?).

[SurfRail]

This project is one of the limited set which is worthwhile.  There are a few similarly large at-grade intersections between 2 arterial routes in other parts of SEQ which are also significant accident blackspots - Hooker Boulevard and Bermuda St west of Broadbeach come to mind

[HappyTrainGuy]

@James, it sucks even more if you want to use both tunnels to get there but that's when you hit up the Gateway.

[James]

@James, it sucks even more if you want to use both tunnels to get there but that's when you hit up the Gateway.

The catchment area for using both tunnels is quite limited. For Clem7 + AirportLink I'd say its only in a circle band between around Dutton Park/Morningside, extending southwards until around Moorooka, bordered on the east side by Cavendish Road.

The catchment area for Legacy Way + AirportLink is a lot larger though - anybody west of Indooroopilly by road up until Karana Downs or Riverhills/Sinnamon Park would want to use it. That being said, the big bottleneck isn't really what Legacy Way bypasses. Oh, if only the Centenary suburbs had a BUZ, you'd probably ease the congestion on the motorway in 12 months if you did that.

[ozbob]

Bloomberg Sustainability --> Woes of Megacity Driving Signal Dawn of 'Peak Car' Era

[#Metro]

The evidence from Clem 7 and AirporLink is ABSOLUTELY CLEAR. Tolls and charges are an amazingly effective way of immediately reducing traffic volume (what was it 50% drop in patronage when charges came in?) with little or no large infrastructure cost.

KSD traffic problem could be solved ridiculously cheaply by purchasing a toll gantry and cameras and charging a $1 toll (capped at $2 per day max). It would pay for itself and even bring in revenue/

[ozbob]

Twitter

Penny Dahl (Cameron) ‏@Pennycopter

Dead set, what a load of sh....ocking delays Bruce Hwy southbound from Boundary Rd #bnetraffic http://t.co/Hy4HmYeBwL

[ozbob]

http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2014/2/26/western-freeway-makeover-to-begin

Minister for Transport and Main Roads
The Honourable Scott Emerson
Wednesday, February 26, 2014
Western Freeway makeover to begin

One of Brisbane's busiest motorways will be upgraded to increase capacity and improve safety.

Transport and Main Roads Minister Scott Emerson said the Western Freeway between Indooroopilly and Toowong would be widened from two-to-three lanes in each direction.

"This is a win for the people of the western suburbs, with about 70,000 vehicles using this stretch of road every day," Mr Emerson said.

"Increasing the capacity of the Western Freeway means less congestion on this busy road is on the horizon, particularly when you include the Moggill Road interchange upgrade and Legacy Way tunnel which is nearing completion.

"I've ensured the $55 million upgrade will also include upgraded noise barriers for residents.

"All existing noise walls along the Western Freeway between Toowong and Indooroopilly, impacted as part of the works, will be upgraded to concrete barriers, similar to those used for the Moggill Road interchange."

Mr Emerson said the upgrade would be delivered by Transcity, which was delivering the Legacy Way tunnel and Moggill Road interchange upgrade for Brisbane City Council.

"Transcity's involvement will reduce the duration of construction impacts on the local community and travelling public," he said.

Construction, including early works, will begin this week and is expected to be complete prior to the Legacy Way tunnel opening in 2015.

[ENDS] 26 February 2014

[ozbob]

Twitter

Penny Dahl (Cameron) ‏@Pennycopter

The Western Fwy at Moggill Rd. Ouch! #bnetraffic http://t.co/8SIZ4C8xLe



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Twitter

Penny Dahl (Cameron) ‏@Pennycopter

Fancy a trip on the Ipswich Mwy? I thought not. Delays inbound Wacol to Oxley #bnetraffic http://t.co/JIi14BiPNt

[James]

Western Fwy expansion was probably necessary between Toowong and Indro, but all it is going to do is shift the bottleneck further back to between the Centenary Bridge and Indooroopilly. The fact is, cars getting off the M5 at Indro is roughly equal to the number of cars getting on. If they were smart they'd turn those extra lanes into T2 lanes and get ready to run the western suburbs P-rockets via the Western Motorway... but it will never happen. Yay for P-rockets which are only 2 minutes faster than their full-time equivalent which goes via Indro shopping centre (i.e. AM peak hell).

Alternatively, I'm sure you could ease congestion simply by adopting my review and giving the Centenary suburbs two frequent bus routes... wait what?

[SurfRail]

^ Caught a 131 from the city to Altandi to get on a Gold Coast service yesterday.  Was 10 minutes slower to Altandi than the train.  I could have reached Sunnybank or anywhere further south faster by catching the train to Altandi and busing in either direction.  The service was about 1/3 seated as well, and half of the passengers boarded at Brisbane Square and not in the rest of town.

The light phasing at the Mains/Kessels overpass seems slanted far too much against Mains Road as well.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Yeah. During construction I wondered myself as to why Mains Road didn't get the nonstop journey through the intersection.

[techblitz]

^ Caught a 131 from the city to Altandi to get on a Gold Coast service yesterday.  Was 10 minutes slower to Altandi than the train.  I could have reached Sunnybank or anywhere further south faster by catching the train to Altandi and busing in either direction.  The service was about 1/3 seated as well, and half of the passengers boarded at Brisbane Square and not in the rest of town.

So why didnt you walk to central and catch it then?  :conf
what was your reason for catching the 131?
Your reason would probably match up with the many users of prepaid rockets.Case in point p141...which also sits in trafffic on mains road...but still manages to be one of brisbanes highest value for money routes....

[SurfRail]

^ For something different.  I can assure you my reason would not match anybody else's, given I was travelling to Robina with no intermediate business to attend to.

Point being that even with the busway it is faster to catch a limited stops train via the crappy old Beenleigh alignment, which I find interesting.

I don't trust any of those value for money rankings because the context is non-existent.  The TX2 is the highest value for money route on the Gold Coast I think - no surprises for guessing why - but that is no reason for diverting more resources to it than to other bits of the system.

[techblitz]

Forgive my intrigue SR but im curious as to why you caught the 131 instead of footing it to central?
Simple question...i know if im in the creek st vicinity and i need to get to say carindale.... i will take advantage of the prepaids to save walking to central or using the slower 204.
I trust the VFM ratings from translink....the info in the RTI doc matches up with my observations on quite a few southside routes....all going well the same modelling will be used in the future...
On the topic of gold coast...was browsing thru the 700 frequency and spans....very impressive!

[pangwen]

^ Caught a 131 from the city to Altandi to get on a Gold Coast service yesterday.  Was 10 minutes slower to Altandi than the train.  I could have reached Sunnybank or anywhere further south faster by catching the train to Altandi and busing in either direction.  The service was about 1/3 seated as well, and half of the passengers boarded at Brisbane Square and not in the rest of town.

So why didnt you walk to central and catch it then?  :conf
what was your reason for catching the 131?
Your reason would probably match up with the many users of prepaid rockets.Case in point p141...which also sits in trafffic on mains road...but still manages to be one of brisbanes highest value for money routes....

I'm one of those regular users of the P141, and after having experimented with catching the train to Altandi and connecting to the 140 for about a month, I'm almost ready to switch back to using the P141 from the city (unless I get a text from Translink advising of severe congestion in the city before I leave work). There are a few reasons:

- It takes me 10 minutes to walk to Valley train station and 15 minutes to walk to the P141 stop at Creek St (this isn't a reason for catching the bus, it's just to illustrate that the earliest services I can catch are the 5:10 GC from the Valley or the 5:20 P141)
- You'll note that all of the GC trains leaving the Valley 5:10pm and beyond (with the exception of the 5:25pm service ex FV) manage to get to Altandi 1-2 minutes before the 140 is scheduled to get there. What this means in practice is that you get off the train, jog to the bus station and watch the 140 pass by before you can get there. It basically adds 10-15 minutes to your trip waiting for a transfer. It reminds me of the days I used to catch the train from the southside, connecting at Roma St to Milton.
- The P141 doesn't stop at Altandi
- Even if I did catch the 5:25pm ex-FV service (which technically connects well to the 140), that 140 service is timetabled to arrive at Calam Rd only one minute prior to the P141 that leaves the city at 5:35pm, and for some reason runs significantly slower past Calam Rd (not sure if this is real). In any case, even if it were only a minute difference past Calam Road, I need to leave work about 5 minutes earlier to catch the train to get it. The added uncertainty of a transfer makes things a bit dicey.

[ozbob]

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Penny Dahl (Cameron) ‏@Pennycopter

M1 chock a block northbound past the Logan Mwy...shocker! http://t.co/ttyo5m2ow6

[James]

Forgive my intrigue SR but im curious as to why you caught the 131 instead of footing it to central?
Simple question...i know if im in the creek st vicinity and i need to get to say carindale.... i will take advantage of the prepaids to save walking to central or using the slower 204.
I trust the VFM ratings from translink....the info in the RTI doc matches up with my observations on quite a few southside routes....all going well the same modelling will be used in the future...
On the topic of gold coast...was browsing thru the 700 frequency and spans....very impressive!

He's already said it... bus safari. For the hell of it. No other reason. Like why I caught the 118 one time - bus network touring. On the note of the 118, the particular service I was on (the 4:05pm one) was doing alright - but half of the pax got off at Garden City (with about three boarding there), and pretty much all pax got off in the Heathwood area.

Somehow most of us people over in the western suburbs manage to survive without a parliament service. Shocking, I know.

[techblitz]

He's already said it... bus safari. For the hell of it. No other reason.

whatever demand to/from parliament there is from that mess of a region..... they can just cityloop it to parliament  .....the service needs to get passengers somehow
That being said...with legacy way in operation we may potentially see a new rocket service or just a current one diverted.That would make sense.

@ pangwen

never said it stopped @ altandi..i know this...was just highlighting the convenience factor and why the 141 does so well as a result and the fact that heavy mains rd traffic means nothing to its numbers...and as you highlighted...the potential transfer penalties involved.
Its stopping pattern combined with its ease of access from the northside of the cbd

[SurfRail]

Forgive my intrigue SR but im curious as to why you caught the 131 instead of footing it to central?

For the sake of it, as I said.  I would never set about catching a rocket to Altandi as a sensible means of getting home, why would I?  It's daft.  The trip is slower and less comfortable.  It was to see whether an express train to Altandi is reliably faster, and it turns out it is as I expected.

I trust the VFM ratings from translink....the info in the RTI doc matches up with my observations on quite a few southside routes....all going well the same modelling will be used in the future...

So why don't we run rockets all day?

The reason outer metropolitan services don't have the same "impressive" cost recovery is because those services run all day without the choice peak bits being isolated by virture of running with a separate route number.  If you paired rockets with their all-day analogues to get a reasonable comparison, the stats would look less pumped up on a lot of corridors.

On the topic of gold coast...was browsing thru the 700 frequency and spans....very impressive!

5/6ths of the system doesn't run at all after 6-7pm anymore and the only materially significant improvement is to Route 750 (and not if you lived west of Robina Station), so I can't agree.  Each to their own.

[techblitz]

The vfm info on the rti document clearly showed the 'general picture' on the outer routes fairly accurately...yet another reason to trust them.

Onto mains rd/altandi station
If your comparing mains rd buses to beenleigh line trains .of course the trains to altandi & beyond will be quicker than any bus route...its a no brainer..why even bother with the test trip ...
Mains rd and the parliament congestion/Griffith pickups would put pay to that easily....

High-po-thetical

If 131 regulars did thier own little test and came up with the same results....most likely it wouldnt deter them from using the service...instead putting convenience over speed of trip........bottom line is if you asked them why they are using that service....majority will answer because 'i couldnt be bothered walking to central station or the 2 bus stations or the transfer penalties involved'
Lazy and selfish?...each to thier own.....its a majority situation unfortunately....nothing you or i can do about it.....until that magical seperation of BT occurs and the rockets get reduced.....people will prefer the convenient access to those services over the other alternatives.

The foot traffic around Southbank /gardens point however..thats where the real opportunity is for QR to nick some patronage off BT.

[James]

The vfm info on the rti document clearly showed the 'general picture' on the outer routes fairly accurately...yet another reason to trust them.

Onto mains rd/altandi station
If your comparing mains rd buses to beenleigh line trains .of course the trains to altandi & beyond will be quicker than any bus route...its a no brainer..why even bother with the test trip ...
Mains rd and the parliament congestion/Griffith pickups would put pay to that easily....

High-po-thetical

If 131 regulars did thier own little test and came up with the same results....most likely it wouldnt deter them from using the service...instead putting convenience over speed of trip........bottom line is if you asked them why they are using that service....majority will answer because 'i couldnt be bothered walking to central station or the 2 bus stations or the transfer penalties involved'
Lazy and selfish?...each to thier own.....its a majority situation unfortunately....nothing you or i can do about it.....until that magical seperation of BT occurs and the rockets get reduced.....people will prefer the convenient access to those services over the other alternatives.

The foot traffic around Southbank /gardens point however..thats where the real opportunity is for QR to nick some patronage off BT.

They showed the general picture, but it then gave the public the idea that BUZ routes and most P-rockets are sacred, so the moment any change or cut was made, residents started to scream and point to the basic figures, despite the fact they could be misleading.

I can't blame SR for doing the test trip. Yes, rail is generally faster in peak, but off-peak rail is identical in time from South Bank to Altandi compared to a bus.

I also do not like the broad brush strokes they used on both patronage and VFM. The gap between 'High' and 'Very High' benchmarks was 14 passengers and standees (standees being a vague term), and further more, only FIVE services per week or 5% of services per week needed to have standees. For VFM, any route with cost recovery between 30% and 100% was classified as 'High', giving this idea that even air parcels like the 417 and trash routes like the 470 actually did well.

The fact is, we need to stop firing so many half-empty rockets around everywhere. Case in point. Why does Scrub Road deserve 15 buses per hour in peak hour? 15! This is more than the number running parts of Gympie Road on a Sunday!

BCC is already aware of the problem, and could very easily fix the problem simply by reducing the number of rockets it operates. In the Carindale Heights example, simply can the P201 and run the P205 every 10 minutes in peak (consistently) to form a 5-minute clockface service. No area is left without a service, and average wait only increases by 2.5 minutes for the few stops not served by the P201. Same thing with the 130 series rockets.

You see, a lot of the peak-only services that exist could be theoretically removed without actually causing much grief for anybody.

[ozbob]

Twitter

Penny Dahl (Cameron) ‏@Pennycopter 7m

The Bruce Hwy southbound from Anzac Ave, shocker #bnetraffic http://t.co/ghWdXCrEVE

[Jonno]

I am really surprised that the traffic reporters still have any vibrancy or surprise to their reporting.  It must be so tempting to go "M1? check! Ipswich Mtrway? check!.....

[ozbob]

Couriermail Quest --> Upgrades to the state's second busiest intersection are nearing completion but traffic is still an issue

What a surprise, NOT!

[ozbob]

Twitter

Penny Dahl (Cameron) ‏@Pennycopter

Western Fwy slow inbound from Moggill Rd #bnetraffic http://t.co/M64Xi7JWQ3

[ozbob]

Twitter

Penny Dahl (Cameron) ‏@Pennycopter

The M1 completely cactus Tanah Merah northbound to Eight Mile Plains #bnetraffic http://t.co/aNNrwb9tT4