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Author Topic: Half-Baked infrastructure projects  (Read 4834 times)

Offline #Metro

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Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« on: October 24, 2010, 09:36:08 AM »
Where are the half-baked infrastructure projects in Queensland?
I thought I would get an overview.  :-t

Please list your favourites!!!
Negative people... have a problem for every solution.
Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members. Not affiliated with, paid by or in conspiracy with MTR/Metro.

Offline ozbob

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2010, 10:25:26 AM »
1.  Caboolture to Beerburrum duplication - in itself a worthwhile project but nothing has happened to improve the train timetable.

2.  Building a railway line without adequate stations, viz., the Richlands to Springfield line without the Ellen Grove and Springfield Lakes stations.

3.  Failure to properly integrate and electrify fully the UP sub line from Corinda to Darra, ignoring the requirement flagged in the ICRCS study.

4.  The Gold Coast railway being built essentially as a single line. 

5.  Failure to build new infrastructure properly compliant with DDA requirements, eg. platforms at Indooroopilly, Oxley, Darra.

6.  The fiasco with bus stop B Oxley.

7.  Dinmore park and ride being built on the alignment for the third line.

8.  Stop gap stabling yards eg. Redbank.  Bite the bullet and put in place facilities for the future eg. Yandina and Wulkuraka

9.  Failure to utilise the existing rail network effectively.

OK deep breath time ..   :-r
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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2010, 04:29:03 PM »
10. Planned SE busway extension to Springwood then later to Logan Hyperdome.

11. Salisbury-Kuraby triplication with no thought given to better service on the Beenleigh line.

12. Merivale bridge alignment (Ok, that one is 3 decades old)

13. Stopping then restarting duplication at Keperra.

14. Insufficient stabling on nearly all lines.

The way I see it, though, the main failure is not using the existing infrastructure properly, not so much in not having the right infrastructure.

In response to ozbob, I don't see much value in a duplication extending only to Beerburrum, unless there is some change in stopping patterns.  At least if it went to Landsborough, you could do an hourly service to Nambour without a cross.

Offline ozbob

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2010, 04:31:28 PM »
Quote
 I don't see much value in a duplication extending only to Beerburrum ..

It is half baked!  It of course needs to be pushed through Landsborough, a point I have made many times.

I see value in it in the sense at least it is built which means that the next section Beerburrum to Landsborough can start tomorrow ..  ;)
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 04:36:31 PM by ozbob »
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Offline mufreight

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2010, 08:00:39 PM »
To  speed up the North Coast services the Beerburrum - Glass House section needs to be duplicated on the new alignment and Beerwah - Landsborough as a second stage, by constructing these sections now the accelerated running would be able to make effective use of the Caboolture - Beerburrum section that has been duplicated but with limited benefit to this time.
The passing lanes created by the duplication of Beerburrum - Glasshouse and Beerwah - Landsborough would remove the delays caused by the existing single track line and the realignment would reduce transit times by the removal of the numerous speed restricted curves allowing higher speed operation.
The Trackstar staff having now almost having completed Corinda - Darra could continue on with the Beerburrum - Landsborough duplication and realignment where they left off from Caboolture - Beerburrum making best use of the experienced staff and their expertise accumulated on their previous work.

Offline ozbob

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2014, 05:58:36 PM »
Might be time to update?   :P
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2014, 06:01:06 PM »
1.  Caboolture to Beerburrum duplication - in itself a worthwhile project but nothing has happened to improve the train timetable.

2.  Building a railway line without adequate stations, viz., the Richlands to Springfield line without the Ellen Grove and Springfield Lakes stations.

3.  Failure to properly integrate and electrify fully the UP sub line from Corinda to Darra, ignoring the requirement flagged in the ICRCS study.

4.  The Gold Coast railway being built essentially as a single line. 

5.  Failure to build new infrastructure properly compliant with DDA requirements, eg. platforms at Indooroopilly, Oxley, Darra.

6.  The fiasco with bus stop B Oxley.

7.  Dinmore park and ride being built on the alignment for the third line.

8.  Stop gap stabling yards eg. Redbank.  Bite the bullet and put in place facilities for the future eg. Yandina and Wulkuraka

9.  Failure to utilise the existing rail network effectively.

OK deep breath time ..   :-r

2.  Springfield Lakes as Springfield was built in the end.  A small win ..
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Offline SurfRail

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2014, 06:07:48 PM »
GoldlinQ is by and large excellent, but some things which could have been done better:

- All stations should have had side platforms (was originally intended but we have ended up with 6 of 16 being islands)
- Bridge structures and major off-road alignments should have been made accessible to buses
- Pedestrian connectivity between Broadbeach South and Pacific Fair is going to be poor
- Limited public consultation over the bus network (not GoldlinQ's fault or issue)
- Stop placement between Main Beach and Cypress Ave could probably have been done a little better to ensure Paradise Waters had one
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2014, 06:18:57 PM »
The Northern busway is half baked ...

The Eastern busway has buried diamonds ...

Culture Centre congestion cluster still the same ...
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2014, 06:22:25 PM »
The non electrification of the UP sub Corinda to Darra east, failure to put in the 4th platform at Oxley, the general station layout of Darra and the absurd track layout have burnt and will burn a lots of $$$ when finally it is sorted.  Magnificent half baked effort that ..

Indooroopilly rail station stands as testament to how botched things can really get in SEQ.  Half baked and undercooked - poor old Indro ...

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Offline ozbob

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2014, 06:24:58 PM »
For newer members, you may not be aware of the Oxley Bus stop B fiasco ... another sterling effort in mediocrity and wasting the $$$ by all and sundry.

Have a read about it here --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3294.0

When they botch things in the SEQ, they really do it well hey?
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2014, 06:31:09 PM »
Ferny Grove station is half-baked IMHO.  Despite efforts to have a better functional design was not successful and  we have a terminal station with buildings across the tracks. 
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Offline Derwan

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2014, 07:07:25 PM »
UBAT
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Offline The Reaper

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2014, 07:25:25 PM »
Ferny Grove station is half-baked IMHO.  Despite efforts to have a better functional design was not successful and  we have a terminal station with buildings across the tracks. 

Although station buildings across the end of the tracks is..."not real clever", the operating components of the station are actually pretty good, allowing trains to turnaround on either platform and then directly exit onto the inbound track via the double crossover. It's the same as Springfield Central (although SC has two individual crossovers closely spaced). The original design with three platforms would have been a terrible waste of money, and made it so much harder for passengers! Varsity Lakes is another example of a bad terminus, effectively turnarounds can only happen on one platform unless you want to move the train in and out of the spur beyond the station - very inefficient.

The non electrification of the UP sub Corinda to Darra east, failure to put in the 4th platform at Oxley, the general station layout of Darra and the absurd track layout have burnt and will burn a lots of $$$ when finally it is sorted.  Magnificent half baked effort that ..

What is the issue with the non-electrification? Only three tracks are needed with the current timetable - 1. Expresses; 2. All-stops; 3. Counter-peak. At least the fourth track gives the coal trains a good run around the corner at Corinda!

Offline aldonius

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2014, 07:56:54 PM »
The main 'problem' with Ferny is really just that there's only the one entrance point now.

At least the peak crowding is sufficiently localised that I can usually avoid it by just walking the length of the platform.

Offline ozbob

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2014, 08:04:24 PM »
I have a house that overlooks the cross overs at Pannard.  We have debated this many times.  Many coal trains are not actually running on the UP sub but continue to use the mains and down sub.  There is a problem with the UP sub loop down to Darra with noise etc. particularly with DOWN coalies, and conflicts. Because of the crossovers to and from the DOWN sub from the UP sub and to the mains there is often delays and stopping of trains on the UP sub particularly. This in turn also leads short notice platform changes at Darra, this can strand people and mean they miss services.  Electrified there would much freer running for the passenger and freight trains as no stopping and starting.  Excessive crossing eliminated.  Building as part of the initial construction would not have cost that much more and future proofed it.  The 4 platform Oxley requirement was identified in the ICCRS in 2009 or thereabouts.  The engineer in charge of the project did try hard to get it sorted but was not successful.  He did manage to get the 4th track.

Darra should have been built as twin islands with the quad straight down to Darra West.  Branch simply going up from the subs.  Much cheaper and more functional for trains and passengers.  All Ipswich lines noise shielded by the branch embankment.

Having the UP and DOWN subs running consistent UP and DOWN trains would make things a lot better operationally.  All lines are bi-directional which is fortunate as it does give a bit of flexibility to help overcome the poor layout and the constant crossing but it has it costs.

An example of conflict.  DOWN coalies onto the UP sub from Darra West, cross from DOWN main to UP main then onto UP sub, around the loop and then into Darra on the UP sub against the flow of UP trains to Springfield and often Ipswich.  Many occasions the DOWN coalie is just put through on the main DOWN or DOWN sub.  Still potential conflicts just further on.

See --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8331.msg97706#msg97706
« Last Edit: March 15, 2014, 08:47:58 PM by ozbob »
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2014, 08:11:17 PM »
The main 'problem' with Ferny is really just that there's only the one entrance point now.

At least the peak crowding is sufficiently localised that I can usually avoid it by just walking the length of the platform.

Yo.  Coming from the pub you have to walk the full train/platform length, do a U turn through the fare gates and then back track ....  :o
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Offline red dragin

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2014, 09:40:10 PM »
The non electrification of the UP sub Corinda to Darra east, failure to put in the 4th platform at Oxley, the general station layout of Darra and the absurd track layout have burnt and will burn a lots of $$$ when finally it is sorted.  Magnificent half baked effort that ..

Couldn't really understand this until I travelled over it last weekend.

With half the supports in place it can't have been too much to throw in the missing posts and wire.

Offline James

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2014, 10:48:53 PM »
The Northern busway is half baked ...

The Eastern busway has buried diamonds ...

Culture Centre congestion cluster still the same ...

I think the biggest travesty has to be the absolute failure to build the Northern Busway at Class A (or even Class B) ROW between RBWH and Kedron. Eastern Busway is close behind - development is stalling in Coorparoo because of the failure to build the Eastern Busway. It is disappointing to say the least...

I would say Corinda - Darra is 3/4 baked. At least they bothered to quadruplicate the thing in the first place. The lack of a 4th platform at Oxley is the worst part - at least if they included P4 all you needed to do was string up wires along the UP Sub.
Is it really that hard to run frequent, reliable public transport?

Offline ozbob

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2014, 03:53:00 AM »
There were plans done up for P4 at Oxley, never made public as such.   They might be useful one day.  It was estimated at the time that electrification (all the OHT supports are there essentially), platform and necessary track work at Corinda would have cost an additional $18-20 million.  Now it would cost around $50 million + as everything has to be restarted from scratch with construction etc. and now working brown field.  Oxley P4 would have been green field at the time they did the UP sub.  A rational Darra station layout would have probably saved nearly the amount needed for the Oxley P4 and UP sub sparking.
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2014, 06:52:30 AM »
A blast from the past ...

======================

http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=1431.msg6562#msg6562

Media Release 18 October 2008

SEQ:  Rail planning mistakes of the past continue to be repeated, mediocrity reigns in western transport corridor  ...

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters has called for an urgent review of the present failures to completely electrify the fourth line between Corinda and Darra (1), and the plan not to construct a double railway line between Richlands and Stepham on the Springfield branch.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"As amazing as it is, the present fourth railway line between Corinda and Darra is not going to be fully electrified.   It will be electrified for part of the way from Darra to a point before Oxley.  This is despite the overhead masts and everything being in place. This failure to completely electrify the fourth line will lead to capacity constraints and loss of operational flexibility.  It has been determined that the fourth line will be needed by 2015 to give suburban passenger capacity, so it is illogical not to perform the works whilst construction teams are in place and working on the line now. This will actually save money."

"The Springfield branch line construction date keeps getting put back.  Bizarrely the plan for the branch line is for a single track from Richlands to Stepham.  Hello?  The requirement to run 15 minute frequency or better on this line to service the huge population increases forecast for Springfield and the Ripley Valley generally makes this decision look positively stupid.  It will need to be a double track, with stations where people can conveniently access the railway."

"Why is it, when it comes to major railway transport infrastructure, Queensland keeps on getting it so wrong? Recent examples include the failure to duplicate the Gold Coast line from the outset, and the failure to duplicate the railway line to Ferny Grove."

"The use of grossly flawed data to justify the lack of proper resourcing of passenger rail services is now exposed, as evidenced by the chronic congestion and overloading on our Citytrain passenger services."

"Is there any hope for a sustainable transport future with the present failings of Government and its agencies?"

References:

1.   http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=1281.0

Contact:

Robert Dow

Administration
admin@backontrack.org
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2014, 06:55:28 AM »
We gave it a good shot ..

Comments from mufreight.  Thanks mufreight!

Quote
This is not intended to be critical of the actual works currently being carried out on the Corinda ? Darra Quadruplication by Trackstar Alliance who are only tasked and funded to provide what the Government dictates.

The project as at present presents a number of shortcomings that will in future require considerable expenditure to rectify when compared with the costs that would be involved to carry out these works now while all the required plant and staff are available to carry out the works rather than to add the additional costs of setting up again at some later date to carry them out.

At the present time it is the Governments intention that there will be four tracks between Corinda and Darra of which only three will be electrified and the configuration of the trackwork as presently proposed at Corinda will at this point in time mean that the fourth track will not be available for suburban traffic if needed.

A further failing is that this fourth track will only be electrified from a point between Oxley and Darra when at minimum cost it could be electrified for the full distance between Corinda and Darra.

A further failing is the failure to construct the fourth platform at Oxley station, works that if carried out in the present construction could also be achieved at minimum cost and provide greater operational flexibility.  All of the all stations services could then operate over the up and down suburban lines leaving the main lines free for freight, express and limited stop passenger services and remove the potential choke point for Springfield services between Darra and Oxley, remove the need for bi-directional signalling and additional pointwork between Darra and Oxley.

At Darra due to the proposed widening of the existing 1 and 2 island platform and the construction of a new platform on the Railway Terrace side of the existing station there will be a considerable intrusion into Railway Terrace that will reduce the roadside parking space in the commercial area adjacent to the station at that point.

A significant length of retaining wall will need to be constructed along Railway Terrace both before and after the Manburgh Terrace road underpass and the resultant platform configuration will be less user friendly as passengers from the Ipswich line west of Darra will have to change from the existing platform 1 or 3 to the new platform rather that make a cross platform transfer.

The existing island platform 3 and 4 could be widened to make it compliant with the current requirement for disabled access, requiring less extensive retaining wall construction and providing an improved alignment for the curve on both main lines            line to the west of the platforms at Darra and remove the necessity to encroach into the existing road space on the southern, Railway Terrace side of the station.  All services currently exist on the four existing platforms and there would be further savings by not having to provide duplicate facilities on the proposed new platform.

West of Darra the presently proposed track configuration is such that the extension of the third and fourth tracks to the west would require the reversal of the proposed junction arrangement, which would impose further cost and disruption to operations when those works are carried out to extend the third track west as far as Redbank as well as constraints on operations in the interim period, greater operational flexibility would be obtained by joining the up and down main lines between the Centenary Highway overpass and Bullock Head Creek and by then continuing the up and down suburban lines a further 1000m beyond that point before then bringing the bi-directional main line into the suburban up and down lines which would then continue west as the main lines, this arrangement would simplify the extension of a third track to the west as has been proposed without any disruption to either passenger or freight operations.

Due to the dictates of somewhat short-sighted government there will under the present proposed arrangements be a quite considerable expenditure of public funds to achieve a less than optimum result.

The works carried out to this time on the project have shown the considerable expertise of the Trackstar Alliance and the standards of their competence, on the other hand the short-sighted and blinkered dictates of government and their advisers inhibit the full potential of this project showing that they have learnt nothing from their previous short-sighted failing with the works carried out on the northern lines between Brunswick Street and Eagle Junction which were then again in part and then rebuilt at considerable expense to provide the present existing four tracks through that section.



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Offline ozbob

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2014, 07:33:37 AM »
Eagle Junction ...  botched upgrade?

--> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4057.msg132986#msg132986
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Offline The Reaper

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2014, 08:24:17 AM »
Having the UP and DOWN subs running consistent UP and DOWN trains would make things a lot better operationally.  All lines are bi-directional which is fortunate as it does give a bit of flexibility to help overcome the poor layout and the constant crossing but it has it costs.

An example of conflict.  DOWN coalies onto the UP sub from Darra West, cross from DOWN main to UP main then onto UP sub, around the loop and then into Darra on the UP sub against the flow of UP trains to Springfield and often Ipswich.  Many occasions the DOWN coalie is just put through on the main DOWN or DOWN sub.  Still potential conflicts just further on.

See --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8331.msg97706#msg97706

Yes, it provides "freer" running but only at Darra. If trains ran Up-Down-Up-Down with an electrified fourth track, it just moves the conflict (which happens only in the afternoon peak) to Milton. The conflict hasn't been removed, just moved. It only becomes beneficial from a passenger perspective if something like the ICRCS second tunnel is built as the Milton conflict would be removed.

I also don't believe that it would have made much (if any) difference to coal traffic. A Down coal train still has to cross all outbound Ipswich and Springfield trains at some point. An Up coal train needs to get in the mix with outbound Springfield and Ipswich trains, and at least with the infrastructure that's there that merge is very small if they use the Up Sub to head west.

Offline ozbob

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2014, 08:34:23 AM »
Not sure if you aware the very original plot for Corinda was for a fly over onto the Tennyson line from the mains for the freighters.  That was abandoned early in the planning as I think there would have been too much local opposition.  Locals get a bit annoyed now with bridge and point/cross over noise.

When the southern freight corridor and the ' tunnel ' from Acacia Ridge to the Port is done it will all be just an academic curiosty, assuming that coal is still being exported.  At that point the subs will be fully electrified as the trains whiz in from Ripley and Ipswich ...   :P
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Offline The Reaper

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2014, 08:41:17 AM »
Not sure if you aware the very original plot for Corinda was for a fly over onto the Tennyson line from the mains for the freighters.  That was abandoned early in the planning as I think there would have been too much local opposition.  Locals get a bit annoyed now with bridge and point/cross over noise.

Well that would have made a difference! Although still wouldn't have helped NCL freight...not that we're discussing that here.

When the southern freight corridor and the ' tunnel ' from Acacia Ridge to the Port is done it will all be just an academic curiosty, assuming that coal is still being exported.  At that point the subs will be fully electrified as the trains whiz in from Ripley and Ipswich ...   :P

We can but hope ozbob  :)

Offline James

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2014, 10:36:17 AM »
Eagle Junction ...  botched upgrade?

--> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4057.msg132986#msg132986

Eagle Junction 'upgrade' has to be the most half-baked thing I've ever seen. Yes, there's a shiny new station entrance building... then you walk on to the bridge which goes over the tracks and BAM!, it's like you're back at the usual dingy QR suburban station.

If they were going to bother spending the money upgrading Eagle Junction, they should have done it properly. Demolished the old buildings, raised the platforms and so on.
Is it really that hard to run frequent, reliable public transport?

Offline ozbob

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2014, 06:21:10 PM »
Re Corinda - Darra. I remembered this post from Petey as well.  He sits up front ..


Quote
And PM peak:
- I/B via Oxley #3
- O/B to Ipswich via Oxley #2 (non-stopping)
- O/B to Richlands via Oxley #1 (stopping)

This is a rather large problem. Every OB Ipswich PM peak express I have run, I have been running on restricted signals from Corinda to Oxley/Darra section due to IB Richlands/empty trains crossing over to the Down Main. It is already a problem, it will become a much larger problem in time when frequencies are improved.

In a perfect world, Richlands/Springfield trains would use to subs all the way (with Up sub electrified) and Ips trains would use the mains. That would remove all the conflicting moves and coalies could use the subs with the Richlands/Springfield trains, meaning less conflicting moves at Corinda as well.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 06:28:40 PM by ozbob »
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Offline dancingmongoose

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2014, 06:23:11 PM »
A fourth platform would mean Ipswich/Rosewood trains won't have to use platform 2 during PM peak, which is an inbound platform for the rest of the day, and also means that after Abbott builds his freight tunnel we won't have a fourth track with no traffic!

Offline petey3801

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2014, 07:19:12 PM »
A fourth platform would mean Ipswich/Rosewood trains won't have to use platform 2 during PM peak, which is an inbound platform for the rest of the day, and also means that after Abbott builds his freight tunnel we won't have a fourth track with no traffic!

P2 at Oxley is actually a designated outbound (Up) platform. I honestly don't know why they bother using it as an inbound platform during off-peak, as it would add no more time to cross to the Down main than it does to cross to the Up main between Darra and Oxley, as well as Main to Sub between Corinda and Sherwood. Just another QR quirk.
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Offline dancingmongoose

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2014, 02:51:13 PM »
Darra should have been built as twin islands with the quad straight down to Darra West.

Wasn't it twin islands already before they redid it for Richlands+? Would have been a lot cheaper to completely realign the rails where needed than demolish and rebuild platforms

Offline pandmaster

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2014, 12:57:08 PM »
The Go Between Bridge intersection with Hale Street and Coro Drive. Northbound raffic backs up over the bridge in the PM peak and the right turn onto Coro Drive is a lottery. The lane is too small and the lights are not green for long enough. You can get stuck there at any time of day. I often end up turning around in the city and going onto the Pacific Motorway towards Toowong to use the overpass. There should be no traffic lights to enter or exit the bridge at the very least, if not a completely separated junction with no traffic lights.

Offline red dragin

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #32 on: May 02, 2014, 03:04:41 PM »
The south bound right turn lane was meant to be an underpass, until they decided that up to 50 minute traffic jams during construction was worse than that pointless turning lane for ever  ::)

Offline Jonno

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2014, 03:50:33 PM »
The south bound right turn lane was meant to be an underpass, until they decided that up to 50 minute traffic jams during construction was worse than that pointless turning lane for ever  ::)

Who cares!! If they are stupid enough to drive in this city at peak hour then they can waste their time as congestion for as long as they want

Offline James

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2014, 07:04:48 PM »
The south bound right turn lane was meant to be an underpass, until they decided that up to 50 minute traffic jams during construction was worse than that pointless turning lane for ever  ::)

If you look at the signage, this is the road network's way of funnelling people into Milton Road and Legacy Way. There is actually no signage saying to go towards the GBB/Coro Dr intersection to get anywhere in the western suburbs, and when you finally get to the intersection there is only a small "Toowong ->" sign. When I've been with people who irregularly drive the route, I actually get questioned when I tell them to keep going down Hale St. It really is half-baked. I think what is worse is how the traffic just banks back into the second lane going on to the GBB.
Is it really that hard to run frequent, reliable public transport?

Offline pandmaster

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #35 on: May 05, 2014, 12:46:20 AM »
The south bound right turn lane was meant to be an underpass, until they decided that up to 50 minute traffic jams during construction was worse than that pointless turning lane for ever  ::)

Who cares!! If they are stupid enough to drive in this city at peak hour then they can waste their time as congestion for as long as they want

You can get stuck there any time of day. Not just peak.

Offline red dragin

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #36 on: May 05, 2014, 08:52:43 AM »
The south bound right turn lane was meant to be an underpass, until they decided that up to 50 minute traffic jams during construction was worse than that pointless turning lane for ever  ::)

Who cares!! If they are stupid enough to drive in this city at peak hour then they can waste their time as congestion for as long as they want

Yep. Those stupid courier drivers trying to deliver packages, stupid ambulances trying to help sick people, stupid people who have poor or no public transport options.... ::)

James, the whole thing ended up half arsed once they where made to remove that underpass. The right turn has always been there and always poorly signed.

Milton road -> Croydon St (Toowong) is often quicker to Toowong anyway i reckon.

Offline James

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #37 on: May 05, 2014, 10:15:34 AM »
Yep. Those stupid courier drivers trying to deliver packages, stupid ambulances trying to help sick people, stupid people who have poor or no public transport options.... ::)

James, the whole thing ended up half arsed once they where made to remove that underpass. The right turn has always been there and always poorly signed.

Milton road -> Croydon St (Toowong) is often quicker to Toowong anyway i reckon.

I would argue its intentional. If you funnelled all the western suburbs traffic via that little turning lane, you'd very quickly have congestion issues.

5 years ago Milton Rd + Western Fwy was indeed faster to Indro Junction (i.e. where the M5 crosses Moggill Rd). Now, I think Coro Dr is faster. Its likely Milton Rd will once again become faster once Legacy Way opens.
Is it really that hard to run frequent, reliable public transport?

Offline Jonno

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #38 on: May 05, 2014, 09:47:04 PM »
The south bound right turn lane was meant to be an underpass, until they decided that up to 50 minute traffic jams during construction was worse than that pointless turning lane for ever  ::)

Who cares!! If they are stupid enough to drive in this city at peak hour then they can waste their time as congestion for as long as they want

Yep. Those stupid courier drivers trying to deliver packages, stupid ambulances trying to help sick people, stupid people who have poor or no public transport options.... ::)

James, the whole thing ended up half arsed once they where made to remove that underpass. The right turn has always been there and always poorly signed.

Milton road -> Croydon St (Toowong) is often quicker to Toowong anyway i reckon.

Who make up less than 35% of all traffic!  Stop using the minority to excuse those who choose to be congestion. 

Economically Successful Cities Favor Space-Efficient Modes - http://www.planetizen.com/node/67722

Offline red dragin

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Re: Half-Baked infrastructure projects
« Reply #39 on: May 05, 2014, 10:05:52 PM »
When did I start? :conf

My point was not everyone in that traffic jam is stupid or there by choice.

 

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