NorthShore / Doomben Line

[techblitz]

Anyone seen how route 304 is performing? It's good they are doing feeder bus, but I just think more could probably be done with this route, i think it's probably destined to fail and probably will not make it past the trial phase. Doesn't have enough stops and needs to run on Saturday, Eat St Markets would be well serviced by this route

Each time I have seen it pull into Doomben between 3-4pm there has never been more than 2 jump off and before it heads back out on the return run I have never seen anyone jump on.....ive asked drivers about the route and they said there are a few regulars that use the service to get around.....ive hinted to them that they should look at sending it further north to DFO/Toombul.
The demographic is there.....people with money to spend who probably also like to go to the horse races...

It's surprising that many people prefer to use the bus routes then use Ascot Station, journey is far quicker during peak as the buses get stuck on Racecourse road for 10 minutes, queuing to get onto Kingsford Smith Drive. I guess people prefer the turn up and go of 7 minute frequency of the bus compared to 30 minutes on the train.

similar to the 150 @ fruitgrove....people just prefer to stay on the bus even though they have to deal with traffic AND driver changes at GC depot

[#Metro]

Route 304
https://jp.translink.com.au/plan-your-journey/timetables/bus/t/304

So, what's the patronage on Route 304 now? Can we ask TL & BCC over twitter?

I can't believe this is how planning is done. No consultation - it just gets announced and that's it.

[Cazza]

https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=13371.0

Judging by this patronage (and if my maths is correct), absolute sh!thouse.

In the 17/18 FY, there were about 260 weekdays (52 x 5).

Take off around 10 for public holidays and such (probably slightly generous- it'll do) which gives 250 days.

Currently, 20 services/day.

250 x 20 = 5000/year.

Patronage is sitting at 4,373. That means that there is less than 1 person per service.

Surely that can't be right? Although, to be fair, it doesn't really surprise me all that much considering how useless the route is.

Even my beloved 373 is doing better, boasting an impressive 7.6 people/service

[techblitz]

just did a little check on our little 314 
Given its joke of a frequency it is still carrying 3 times more passengers per service than the 698 which is allocated 15 times more services.....really does show you how bad the 698 is...

But there is an even worse route than the 698.....the Northshore-Doomben route
304 coming in @ 0.89 pax per service..
I think the 304 would have to be the worst performing route in SEQ...perhaps QLD...
Cant imagine any other route out there doing worse at the moment.

If anyone can find a worse route....I'm all eyes 

[#Metro]

Patronage is sitting at 4,373. That means that there is less than 1 person per service.

So, someone's shoe is doing the rounds on the bus?

[Cazza]

The 308 only recorded 3,984. However, I believe it only runs on Sundays to replace the GCL between Toombul and Chermside.

On a somewhat related note, I rode past the bike counter on the Bicentennial Bikeway at the Go Between Bridge at 8pm tonight and it had already counted 4,605 people today.

[Cazza]

Patronage is sitting at 4,373. That means that there is less than 1 person per service.

So, someone's shoe is doing the rounds on the bus?

That, or a horse that got slightly lost when coming around the final bend of the racecourse

[#Metro]

If anyone can find a worse route....I'm all eyes 

I think BCC's Personalised Public Transport Taxi for Centenary is a contender! 

Seriously, good PT $$ are being burned on designed-to-fail services and car parks for motorists at train stations.

Not good!!

[techblitz]

I think its still No dice on the 304 @metro....although it did manage to improve in april...it got its average up to 1.12 
FYI the route has been in service well over two years now for absolutely bugger all gain...

[AnonymouslyBad]

Yeah... I don't get the 304. Absolutely nothing attractive about that service.

The irony, of course, is that we badly need more bus routes linking to train stations - *where it makes sense*. This is not one of those examples.

[timh]

Yeah... I don't get the 304. Absolutely nothing attractive about that service.

The irony, of course, is that we badly need more bus routes linking to train stations - *where it makes sense*. This is not one of those examples.

Thats what I was thinking when this route first came up. Researched it, and on paper, it actually kinda makes sense to me? In concept anyway. A feeder bus from Hamilton Northshore to Doomben station. I think the problem is in the execution

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[SurfRail]

The result isn't surprising though, it's a poor route linking to the worst served line in Brisbane.

Northshore needs a proper bus route to the city - I'd go far enough to say it needs a BUZ type route given what is there and what is planned.  The density is such that 3 high-frequency routes to the CBD via Ann/Wickham would be justified - existing Blue Cityglider, Northshore route and a more sensible version of the 300.  Then rationalise everything else.

[Cazza]

Found this one in the archives:

https://www.railpage.com.au/f-p536062.htm
Date: May 16, 2006
Rail Link for Hamilton
"A NEW train line could link Hamilton to the existing rail network as part of Brisbane's biggest riverfront development set to begin next year.

More than 5000 vehicle movements a day are also expected to be shifted away from the area under State Government plans to turn over 80ha of prime riverfront land to developers.

Transport Minister Paul Lucas yesterday released the master plan for Northshore Hamilton, 80ha of commercial land along 2.5km of riverfront between the Royal Queensland Golf Club and the proposed Portside Wharf cruise terminal.

The Government is set to reap more than $500 million from the sale of the land, now owned by the Port of Brisbane Corporation.

It will be developed over the next 15 years, eventually housing up to 10,000 people mainly in townhouses and apartments up to 20 storeys high, along with retail and commercial premises.

"The plan allows for a range of residential dwelling styles and densities to cater for the changing needs of Queensland households and the growing demand for riverside property in the south east," Mr Lucas said.

"It includes more than 10ha of parkland, riverfront walkways and cycle paths, all of which will help Northshore Hamilton because a hub for Brisbane residents.

"It will have integrated bus, train and ferry services that are expected to account for up to 35 per cent of all trips to and from the area during peak hours."

Plans released yesterday reveal the Government will investigate a rail connection to the centre of the development around Barcham St.

It could link the site to the existing track at Doomben. It also expects about 5500 vehicle movements a day to be redirected away as port activities are relocated to the mouth of the river.

Work on the first stage of the development is expected to start late next year and include a riverfront park with the first sale of land to developers expected in early 2008.

Property experts have predicted the Government could reap up to $1 billion from the sale of the land because of booming prices and the scarcity of riverfront land in Brisbane.

The master plan will be out for public comment until June 28."

[ozbob]

Mr Lucas was very keen on the rail extension.  I remember having a meeting with him when he was Deputy Premier and we discussed the options for KSD crossing.  As usual TMR had a lot to do with sinking yet another rail project.

[ozbob]

https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/92783

World-watch now on Northshore Hamilton's spectacular 2032 Olympic transformation
Published Today at 08:25 AM

Deputy Premier and Minister for State Development, Infrastructure, Local Government and Planning
The Honourable Dr Steven Miles

Northshore Hamilton will undergo a spectacular transformation to become the main Athletes' Village for the Brisbane 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games – further cementing its reputation as Brisbane's riverfront lifestyle precinct.

"The Olympics will do for Northshore Hamilton what Expo 88 did for South Bank," Deputy Premier and State Development Minister Steven Miles said.

"Village construction will crystalise the area's long-term plan and rejuvenate the existing industrial land," Mr Miles said.

"It will boost an already popular precinct - home to landmarks such as Portside, Eat Street Markets, and Alcyone Hotel, and some of Brisbane's best waterfront living - will be tremendous.

"The Village will host more than 10,000 athletes and team officials for the Olympic Games and more than 5000 for the Paralympics.

"Brisbane is now an 'Olympic City' along with global destination-giants Paris and Los Angeles as future hosts (2024 and 2028), after Tokyo."

"Our Athletes' Village will be on Economic Development Queensland-owned land within the Northshore Hamilton Priority Development Area (PDA).

"Northshore's prime waterfront location, proximity to the CBD and competition and training venues, let alone transport connections, make it an ideal location – even after the Games are over.

"Among the key requirements when hosting the Olympics is provision of athletes accommodation and I'm proud Northshore has been locked-in for the Brisbane Olympic and Paralympic Athletes' Village.

"Hosting the 2032 Games will mean a 10-year pipeline of construction jobs, trade and investment opportunities, and legacy projects that will benefit Queenslanders for decades to come.

"The legacy of the Village precinct is already incredibly important."

Post the Games it will deliver a diverse residential offering, including aged care, retirement living social and affordable housing, key worker, hotel, build-to-rent and market accommodation.

EDQ recently awarded a $14 million package of works to BMD Constructions to construct three new roads and upgrade two others with associated services and landscaping at the eastern end of Northshore.

"It's great to see that these works are underway - supporting 46 construction jobs," Mr Miles said.

"It is anticipated the new land supply will generate over $500 million of private sector investment. Development of the newly constructed sites could create over 1600 construction jobs."

Northshore is also set to be the home of a proposed new biomedical facility for Vaxxas to manufacture its world-leading needle-free vaccines, which could be used for COVID-19.

Mr Miles said the development scheme for the Northshore Hamilton PDA is in the final stages of review and will be released for public comment later this year.

"It's important for the local community to have their say on such an important infrastructure area," he said.

"Our goal is to have a revised development scheme next year."

For more information on the Northshore Hamilton PDA visit: https://northshorebrisbane.com.au/

For Artist impressions of the Brisbane Olympic and Paralympic Athletes' Village visit: https://www.statedevelopment.qld.gov.au/industry/brisbane-olympic-and-paralympic-athletes-village/artistic-impressions

ENDS

====

[kram0]

'let alone transport connections'

Has Miles been smoking weed? Has he actually been out to the site of the village? 

So does this confirm a Doomben line extension is not on the cards?

[timh]

'let alone transport connections'

Has Miles been smoking weed? Has he actually been out to the site of the village? 

So does this confirm a Doomben line extension is not on the cards?

It seems nothing more than a pipe dream at this stage. MASSIVE wasted potential.

Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk

[kram0]

11 years out and I already have grave concerns we will completely f&$k up and embarrass ourselves on the transport front. 

[SteelPan]

So far, the Cinderella City of Brissy is on target for delivering a lot of World Class Nothing!
Rail, not even part of the "proposed" village, in fact, no enhancements to public transit at all!

No...wait...a SEXY NEW Olympic Bus Stop Sign...for the "Olympic Glider" IS a non-core, possible, possibility...maybe!

Brisbane 2032
The Olympic City [with BONUS World Class], that looks like a High School Sports Day!

[ozbob]

So far, the Cinderella City of Brissy is on target for delivering a lot of World Class Nothing!
Rail, not even part of the "proposed" village, in fact, no enhancements to public transit at all!

No...wait...a SEXY NEW Olympic Bus Stop Sign...for the "Olympic Glider" IS a non-core, possible, possibility...maybe!

Brisbane 2032
The Olympic City [with BONUS World Class], that looks like a High School Sports Day!

[timh]

Found this out recently while reading the Northshore Hamilton PDA.

An amended PDA was quietly slipped through in November. This new version makes no reference whatsoever to a rail corridor, basically taking it off the cards entirely.

You can read the new version here: https://www.statedevelopment.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0023/63707/northshore-hamilton-pda-proposed-development-scheme-amendment-1.pdf

Here's some pretty drawings side by side.

Old plan:


New plan:


The State govt. has quietly scrapped the plans. I feel like this deserves a press release? "State Govt. scraps plans for new railway line" is the kind of headline I can see the news outlets getting behind. I'd at least like some sort of statement from Bailey et. al about their decision making process here. We basically haven't heard jack sh%t about this line since the original PDA was announced in like 2009 so it would be nice to actually hear what happened.

[verbatim9]

That's right, in terms of frequent public transport, there are plans of a.Gold.Glider from Woolloongabba to Skygate via Hamilton North Shore.

[timh]

That's right, in terms of frequent public transport, there are plans of a.Gold.Glider from Woolloongabba to Skygate via Hamilton North Shore.

Yeah dude, sure. That's not really the same thing as a heavy rail station though, and isn't really relevant. It's never been stated that the proposed "Gold Glider" is a direct replacement of a Doomben rail extension.

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[SteelPan]

Correct, there'll be NO Gold Glider......a ever so slightly thicker make of plastic...maaayyybeee.....but Gold...NO!

  Brisbane, the World Class, NEW World City, with Enhanced Evironmentally Awesome Olympicnessness.

[ozbob]

https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/96005

Northshore Hamilton's road to the 2032 Olympics is sealed after another key milestone
22nd August 2022

Deputy Premier, Minister for State Development, Infrastructure, Local Government and Planning and Minister Assisting the Premier on Olympics Infrastructure
The Honourable Dr Steven Miles

New road infrastructure that will be used to support the Brisbane 2032 Athlete's Village at Northshore Hamilton is completed and open to the public.

Deputy Premier and State Development Minister Steven Miles was on site to inspect the $18 million works package, which supported 46 construction jobs.

"The roads are adjacent to the Athlete's Village site and assist vehicle movements around the precinct during the Olympic and Paralympic Games," Mr Miles said.

"This $18 million package of works includes road, stormwater and utilities upgrades, three new roads, more separated cycleways and subtropical urban landscaping at the eastern end of Northshore.

"Importantly, these works are creating new land supply that will shortly come to the market and is expected to generate over $500 million of private sector investment and support over 1600 construction jobs.

"The accelerated delivery of supporting infrastructure will be vital to support the development of the Village that will ultimately host more than 10,000 athletes and team officials for the Olympic Games and more than 5000 for the Paralympics.

"As the state moves towards 2032, legacy projects such as the Athlete's Village at Northshore will benefit Queenslanders for decades to come."

Mr Miles said Maritime Green, the newest immersive riverfront activation space at Northshore is also now complete.

"Opening up more riverfront that has been closed to the public for over 100 years due to port operations, will support local businesses including Eat Street Northshore," he said.

"There will be new spaces for events, performances and more enterprise and retail opportunities."

For more information on the Northshore Hamilton PDA visit: https://northshorebrisbane.com.au/

For Artist impressions of the Brisbane Olympic and Paralympic Athletes' Village visit: https://www.statedevelopment.qld.gov.au/industry/brisbane-olympic-and-paralympic-athletes-village/artistic-impressions

ENDS

====

 

[#Metro]

It looks good. The roads are just additions to the local street grid.

Maybe BCC needs to start thinking about how to reroute the Blue CityGlider or put in the Gold CityGlider.

[#Metro]

I have been thinking about this one a little more.

- Lines like this have been converted to Light Rail in Melbourne (think 109 Port Melbourne and 96 St Kilda lines). BRT would be a good alternative, but the line is heritage and we can't replace the line for that reason with a busway.

- A potential setup would be to have a tram terminus at Eagle Junction and then run the service into Racecourse or Nudgee Road into Hamilton Northshore and to the ferry.

- This may or may not entail the closure of Doomben Station, given the tram would ideally go down a main road 'high street' to be more useful.

- In this way, slots (2 trains/hr) would be freed up on the rail network core for use elsewhere. It might also be cheaper to operate (one tram driver vs train driver + guard)

- Services could be run every 10 minutes or so and would connect well at both ends to the Gold CityGlider (5-10 minutes during the day) and trains at Eagle Junction (5-10 minutes during the day).

- In the very distant future, TransLink would also have the option to extend the line to meet the Northern Busway at Kedron Brook. There are also options to go further along Stafford Road.

- A point of discussion are the level crossings. Given the tram will cross a road every 5 minutes on a 10 minute frequency (one tram each way) the level crossings will be down quite a lot. Would it be possible to just make the tram stop at the intersection like other traffic?

[timh]

As far as I'm aware the line is still used for the (very) occasional freight train, so the line itself isn't going anywhere anytime soon. HTG can probably confirm

[ozbob]

The Doomben <> Hamilton Branch is long gone now .. ROW has been built on.

[timh]

The Doomben <> Hamilton Branch is long gone now .. ROW has been built on.

Sorry yes I know the freight branch to Hamilton is gone. I meant that Doomben line itself is still used by freight trains bound for Pinkenba so any conversion to another mode as Metro is suggesting may prove problematic.

[ozbob]

^  +1

[#Metro]

I understand the ROW is gone in parts hence why I suggested the possibility of street running for a portion of the alignment. Yes there might be 1 freight customer at the other end of the line, but they would probably have other options (and probably aren't 100% reliant on moving everything via the line already). Melbourne's 109 tram (as a train) used to serve a port and pier, and run freight too.

Route 96 tram in Melbourne extends beyond the original terminal station at St Kilda and runs into the street from there.

I realise this is probably not a high priority given all the other projects required. That said servicing Doomben line with 1000 pax trains is a high opportunity cost - those trains could be better used elsewhere on the QR network, particularly during peak hour when running on any other line, would likely be full.

(at both ends, the tram leaves the ROW to run on streets).

[OzGamer]

I've been thinking about how to make the most use of existing infrastructure without huge investments, and got me to thinking about the Doomben line. Given the plan seems to be adding Doomben to Sector 2 post CRR and that there will need to be many services at both peak and counter peak on Springfield/Ipswich that will need somewhere to go, what about trying to make the existing Doomben line support a higher frequency. What we have is the following timings between Eagle Junction and Doomben:

Eagle Junction	0 mins
Clayfield	3 mins
Hendra	5 mins
Ascot	8 mins
Doomben	10 mins

The track is all single track, but there are three tracks with platforms at Doomben. There are twin legacy platforms at Hendra and Ascot, but only one is in use with track and wiring etc.

My thinking is that if the second platform at Hendra was reinstated with a section of track and wiring built, trains could leave Eagle Junction and Doomben at the same time and arrive at Hendra on opposite platforms at the same time and pass there. In this way, it would be quite feasible to support 4tph service through the day. This combined with 4tph from Shorncliffe could combine to give 8tph between Eagle Junction and Indooroopilly (turning back at Corinda possibly) at least during the day Mon-Fri, supporting both the inner west and convenient connections at Eagle Junction from Caboolture/Redcliffe trains to Central etc. That sounds like a big service improvement for a fairly small capital spend.

Have I missed something?

[Gazza]

Will a lot of trains just terminate at Bowen Hills initially?

[AJ Transport]

Have I missed something?

I don't think you have and I think this approach is the right one. In fact I think upgrading further stations to 2 platforms and enabling more passing space would enable the current lines growth long term.

I think it's only worth double tracking the line fully if it's alignment were being improved and future plans were being developed to extend the line at both ends.

[timh]

I've been thinking about how to make the most use of existing infrastructure without huge investments, and got me to thinking about the Doomben line. Given the plan seems to be adding Doomben to Sector 2 post CRR and that there will need to be many services at both peak and counter peak on Springfield/Ipswich that will need somewhere to go, what about trying to make the existing Doomben line support a higher frequency. What we have is the following timings between Eagle Junction and Doomben:

Eagle Junction	0 mins
Clayfield	3 mins
Hendra	5 mins
Ascot	8 mins
Doomben	10 mins

The track is all single track, but there are three tracks with platforms at Doomben. There are twin legacy platforms at Hendra and Ascot, but only one is in use with track and wiring etc.

My thinking is that if the second platform at Hendra was reinstated with a section of track and wiring built, trains could leave Eagle Junction and Doomben at the same time and arrive at Hendra on opposite platforms at the same time and pass there. In this way, it would be quite feasible to support 4tph service through the day. This combined with 4tph from Shorncliffe could combine to give 8tph between Eagle Junction and Indooroopilly (turning back at Corinda possibly) at least during the day Mon-Fri, supporting both the inner west and convenient connections at Eagle Junction from Caboolture/Redcliffe trains to Central etc. That sounds like a big service improvement for a fairly small capital spend.

Have I missed something?

As far as I'm aware, Hendra never had a second platform. Clayfield had provision for a second track built in the 50s but it's not DDA compliant so it's not as easy as just laying down the rails in the modern day (because you'd be effectively building a NEW platform, and so DDA laws would kick in and you would need to make it wheelchair accessible which is much more difficult)

Ascot has a second platform and rails but it's disconnected from the mainline. Not difficult to reconnect but you would again need a wheelchair compliant overbridge built, because as far as I'm aware the only way to access the other platform currently is through land owned by the racecourse (correct me if I'm wrong).

I still strongly support doing both but yeah, it's more complicated than you think.

If you were gonna do that much work, then you'd go all out and do some other improvements as well  I'd also remove the LX at Nudgee road by rebuilding Doomben as Skyrail. Relatively easy to get to Doomben, beyond Doomben to Pinkenba might be tricky as I'm uncertain if the drop from the Skyrail back to the ground again would be too steep a grade to get under the Gateway but idk.

Hendra and Kitchener road, much trickier.

[#Metro]

Thanks for the comment OzGamer. I am a fan of low-cost high-payoff initiatives, so it definitely sounds easier than LRT conversion. Maybe it can just run as 3-car permanently. You can also build additional platforms at Eagle Junction for the train and just terminate it there as a shuttle if desired.

As far as I'm aware, Hendra never had a second platform. Clayfield had provision for a second track built in the 50s but it's not DDA compliant so it's not as easy as just laying down the rails in the modern day (because you'd be effectively building a NEW platform, and so DDA laws would kick in and you would need to make it wheelchair accessible which is much more difficult)

Well the days of railways on a silver platter are over - any project will have challenges and issues but I'm sure the engineers can overcome that.

[timh]

Thanks for the comment OzGamer. I am a fan of low-cost high-payoff initiatives, so it definitely sounds easier than LRT conversion. Maybe it can just run as 3-car permanently. You can also build additional platforms at Eagle Junction for the train and just terminate it there as a shuttle if desired.

As far as I'm aware, Hendra never had a second platform. Clayfield had provision for a second track built in the 50s but it's not DDA compliant so it's not as easy as just laying down the rails in the modern day (because you'd be effectively building a NEW platform, and so DDA laws would kick in and you would need to make it wheelchair accessible which is much more difficult)

Well the days of railways on a silver platter are over - any project will have challenges and issues but I'm sure the engineers can overcome that.

Ya, it's tricky but definitely worth it. Ultimately the station would have to become DDA compliant one day anyway, so doing it with a duplication is the best outcome.

I would also be a fan of adding additional platforms at Eagle Junction, and running 3 car trains (especially in off peak). Shuttle not so much, want the through-running capacity.

[Ari 🚋]

The price of an overbridge + DDA compliant station is pretty good for effectively doubling capacity of the whole line, which has excellent potential to be a high-density inner city area (current state, not so much). Also pretty important frequency-wise for an extension to Northshore Hamilton which I know is basically dead but I am still holding out hope for

[HappyTrainGuy]

The Doomben <> Hamilton Branch is long gone now .. ROW has been built on.

[

The Doomben <> Hamilton Branch is long gone now .. ROW has been built on.

Sorry yes I know the freight branch to Hamilton is gone. I meant that Doomben line itself is still used by freight trains bound for Pinkenba so any conversion to another mode as Metro is suggesting may prove problematic.

Sorry yes I know the freight branch to Hamilton is gone. I meant that Doomben line itself is still used by freight trains bound for Pinkenba so any conversion to another mode as Metro is suggesting may prove problematic.

GrainCorp still has active sidings at Pinkenba. At the moment trucks heavily use the area. On the weekend you can swear that it's a week day with the amount of truck movements. They haven't been used in a while but they do have intentions once their fright network is up and running. The loop has been upgraded a year or two back with cement sleepers. More ex-QR locomotives have just arrived back from South Africa (Aurizon sold them - very sketchy stuff with that sale on the SA side) and are being overhauled at Warwick.

Conversion to lrt isn't going to happen.

You also have significant issues at Eagle Junction even if it's just 1 new platform for shuttles to avoid conflicts with the subs. You also have the flat junction/subs. To successfully have a dedicated platform you need to resume properties on the Southside of the track and rebuild a road bridge. Then retain access. It also sharpens the eagle junction curve. Engineering everything is possible but there's a cost associated with it aswell.

Clayfield can have a second track but it will loose DDA access to the east due to lack of space. Realistically this would pretty much be an entire rebuild.

Hendra did have a second platform but not as you think. It was more of a dock platform basically with the platforms on both sides. When the old platform was removed that gave the current space for the second track. The walkway on the northern side is part of the old platform.

As mentioned Ascot's second platform is disconnected from the network. Both platforms are QR owned but the racetrack borders the platform and prevents all access meaning a new DDA pedestrian bridge would be required. Platform heights and some heritage stuff too. Once again basically another full station rebuild.

Doomben would require a large amount of resignalling work and track realignment. When Doomben station was moved (old station was at the level crossing) it kept the current track alignment and put any track/level crossing work to be done during the conversion to 2 tracks. Similar to Hendra.

Dual track is a very costly exercise. LRT has its own heavy cost conversion.