NorthShore / Doomben Line

[ozbob]

Add this excellent summary:

Regarding the Doomben line, I think upgrading it and extending to Hamilton North Shore is a no-brainer. That probably means it won't happen, because in Queensland we have LESS THAN NO BRAIN when it comes to planning & implementing public transport, particularly with the current administration which appears to have simply given up and put the whole rail system in the "too hard basket".

My reasons for stating upgrade & extension of Doomben is a no-brainer are:

1. The line traverses a relatively dense inner suburban environment that formerly supported an intensive tram service.  A lot of Clayfield, etc., has seen old Queenslanders knocked down and units built.  Many of these people use rail, but ignore Clayfield/Hendra in favour of Eagle Jct / Wooloowin due to the poor service frequency & run down facilities on the Doomben line.

2. There will soon be major trip generators along the line. A planned development at Doomben that could be a TOD, and a mixed residential/commercial development at Hamilton Northshore that will provide a much larger patronage base than say the Yeerongpilly TOD.

3. The Australia Trade Coast development is bringing a lot of employment in the area, which could easily be served by buses connecting from Doomben, and maybe even a rail service down the old Pinkenba line.  It often irqs me that we don't still run trains to the end of the wires at Eagle Farm given the presence of the TAFE and numerous employers (including an branch office of my own company that used to be reachable by rail).

4. Despite the slightly indirect route, Doomben to the CBD is quite a bit faster by rail than by bus, and that is with some quite low speed limits on the branch which could probably be increased with an upgrade.

5.  A full time Doomben service at reasonable frequency would serve Albion & Wooloowin well, allowing Caboolture trains to express past on the mains.  I would propose that all services running by the mains (Cab, Nambour, Kippa-Ring) run express, those on the suburbans (Shorncliffe, Doomben, Airport) serve all stations.  (Yes I know about the Airtrain contract, but the fact is the running time of an Airtrain service to Eagle Jct is the same as an all stations train, so why not stop 'em?)

6. The line is a logical extension of the Cleveland line services that wastefully terminate at Bowen Hills.  We could give Doomben an equivalent offpeak service to any other Brisbane line NOW if we wanted to, and patronage would pick up to comparable levels fairly quickly.

7. Kingsford Smith Drive + current traffic densites and bad public transport. Now add in 10,000+ residents and a major riverside boutique commercial development at Hamilton. Need I say any more?

8. A suburban line within 10km of a city centre with an HOURLY service?  Who are we kidding if we think that is sustainable?

9. If we don't fix the Doomben line, what future does it have?  I predict it will be closed within 10 years, the next to follow Tennyson, if we do not. (It already was closed from 1993 to 1998, and should be considered to be on "life support").

10. Any alternative to fixing the Doomben line is going to involve a lot more expense.  There are already suggestions of eventually taking a metro to Hamilton.

IMHO if you don't support fixing & extending the Doomben line, then you are effectively supporting its closure and giving up on rail into that entire sector of Brisbane along the northern side of the river.

Nice summary Colin.

[colinw]

Thanks Bob.

The Doomben line annoys the hell out of me.  It has so much potential, but just sits there mouldering away, ignored by the Government, TransLink (and council for that matter, hence their extravagant KSD plans).

Its as if there is a collective blind spot affecting all the branches to the east of the NCL.

Any call to improve Doomben, Airport or Shorncliffe services seems to fall on deaf ears, and both the Doomben & Shorncliffe lines have an aura of genteel decay about them.  Bar the overhead wires, both lines look not much different to how they were in the 1970s.

[ozbob]

From Quest News click here!

Hamilton Harbour development expected to put more pressure on already congested Kingsford Smith Drive

Hamilton Harbour development expected to put more pressure on already congested Kingsford Smith Drive

    Charley Rico, City North News
    From: Quest Newspapers
    July 15, 2011 12:05AM

Serious questions have been raised as to who will pay for an upgrade to Kingsford Smith Drive as the inner-north faces a massive boom in residential development and population.

Cr David Mclachlan (Hamilton Ward) said there was a need for an urgent upgrade to the road network as the Urban Land Development Authority-approved Leighton Properties and Devine Limited mixed-used development Hamilton Harbour nears completion.

The Kingsford Smith Drive development will house three towering residential buildings with 660 apartments, two commercial office buildings and a 5000sq m retail space.

"The State Government has been silent on the issue of the impact that its projects are having on the local network; the ULDA is only planning for the site for which it has responsibility," Cr McLachlan (pictured) said.

"Council is looking for a contribution from the state and federal governments ... to what is a key issue to the road network ... it's not able to be done on council resources alone.

"They've spoken about utilising the rail infrastructure but from what I can see there's nothing planned for the next decade at least.

ULDA chief executive Paul Eagles refused City North News' request for an interview.

A ULDA spokeswoman said: "The ULDA is also working with BCC on improvements to public transport."

Cr McLachlan said there had been no indication from the state or federal government as to when or even if funding would happen.

"Both the state and federal governments are abundantly clear on council's need for contribution ... ULDA hasn't addressed the impact those developments have on the broader road network outside of the area for which it has responsibility."

Devine Group managing director and CEO David Keir said: "There are future plans in place; this is an area that is evolving and these things take a little time to catch up and develop."

[#Metro]

Time to bring out the cannon again???
     

[#Metro]

"Both the state and federal governments are abundantly clear on council's need for contribution ... ULDA hasn't addressed the impact those developments have on the broader road network outside of the area for which it has responsibility."

Now who will pay... um... ah... um... ah... maybe if we go to the ATM called Infrastructure Australia....

just fix up the train line!

[O_128]

WTF, screw the precious kippa ring line and upgrade doomben wasn't RBOT estimate about 300-400 million? This really needs to be made an election issue, I will not idly stand by and let another stretch of the Brisbane river be turned into a riverside expressway.

1. before any firm plans are made the opening of the airport link needs to be taken into account, chances are we will see a drop in KSD numbers
2. Money needs to be redirected to the doomben line, Developers are making a killing on Hamilton so charge them an infrastructure charge.

[SteelPan]

The fact that, year upon year upon year , this "relatively" modest advancement to Brisbane's rail network is not given the green light, is a perfect example of the paralysis of decision making within govt!  We need a CANDO attitude change to getting these projects done! 

[SurfRail]

The fact that, year upon year upon year , this "relatively" modest advancement to Brisbane's rail network is not given the green light, is a perfect example of the paralysis of decision making within govt!  We need a CANDO attitude change to getting these projects done! 

I hope you're not suggesting that if elected, the Giant Burrowing Frog will fix the Doomben line - given his fetish for excising half of the river along Kingsford Smith Drive for a motorway.

[O_128]

The fact that, year upon year upon year , this "relatively" modest advancement to Brisbane's rail network is not given the green light, is a perfect example of the paralysis of decision making within govt!  We need a CANDO attitude change to getting these projects done! 

I hope you're not suggesting that if elected, the Giant Burrowing Frog will fix the Doomben line - given his fetish for excising half of the river along Kingsford Smith Drive for a motorway.

I will say it for the last time, BCCs job is to build roads, collect your rubbish and maintenance, The fact that Campbell built anything at all is a huge achievement. If I was mayor I would do exactly the same thing, Public transport is the state govs job why should The council pay for it? Not to add that if the council had upgraded the Doomben line Knowing translink and the state gov they wouldn't have allowed it to start with and probably ould have come up with not letting trains on the main lines only the branch, In the case of Light rail cityglider I would say that is the councils job but not heavy rail.

[SurfRail]

I will say it for the last time, BCCs job is to build roads, collect your rubbish and maintenance, The fact that Campbell built anything at all is a huge achievement. If I was mayor I would do exactly the same thing, Public transport is the state govs job why should The council pay for it? Not to add that if the council had upgraded the Doomben line Knowing translink and the state gov they wouldn't have allowed it to start with and probably ould have come up with not letting trains on the main lines only the branch, In the case of Light rail cityglider I would say that is the councils job but not heavy rail.

There is nothing in the State Constitution or the City of Brisbane and Local Government Acts that delineate such a sharp distinction.  I don't care who pays for service improvements or for which mode, and nor do most of us, as long as they happen.  

In particular, I don't see why roads/sewage/parks are any different conceptually as municipal infrastructure from public transport, except that the operation of a PT system is better managed by the state government due to it crossing numerous city boundaries.  Funding should be coming from all councils in my opinion, then we might see some more and better targeted improvements as councils agitate for their funds to be used properly.  This is certainly starting to happen with GCCC, who are less than impressed with the way things are happening.

Somebody has to pay 'x' amount of dollars to provide public services.  The the extent that 'x' is made up of revenue received from taxpayers and not through advertising, private capital or other sources, where 'x' actually comes from is irrelevant as it is all ultimately our money no matter which level of government is disbursing it.  Either you pay more GST to be washed through Canberra and out again, or more stamp duty/royalties/land tax, or more rates.  

[Gazza]

^Yay, someone else gets it! At my level, I couldn't care less wether something is paid for by the feds, state, local, or by some pollie selling lemonade on the corner, or which department of these levels of government actually goes through with it. What I do care about is having my needs met.

The only people that enjoy having silly debates about who pays for what are politicians. They might think they are point scoring against each other, but in reality, it's the wider population who are the collateral damage and end up suffering because nothing gets done.
As a Taxpayer, it sh%ts me that we have to bend over backwards and get given the run around to push for our voices to be heard because of all this.

[p858snake]

@nathanaelcooper: Hey @SpencerHowson as CEO, could you do a) more trains on Doomben line b) make trains cheaper than driving c) make a train go under the sea
@SpencerHowson: @nathanaelcooper No longer CEO. Am home in undies with beer and left-over curry! TMI? The real CEO lives on that line - you could ask him

[Jonno]

Winner Announced for National Design Competition – Brisbane Airport Corporation's Property Master Plan

Brisbane Airport Corporation's Property Group undertook a national design competition in association with City Lab. The intention is to develop a comprehensive Property Master Plan for BAC's development sites with an area of approximately 1000 hectares.

http://www.citylab.com.au/category/bne

The winner was Grimshaw with AECOM. Other entrants were ARM Arkhefield and STA.

The Grimshaw submission has the Doomben line linkage to the Airport Line and an extension of Pinkenba Line to southern side of airport.

ARM Arkhefield has a Mass Trannsit loop and STA has just more roads by the lloks of it.

[Golliwog]

Grimshaw AECOM did also have a stadium and park n ride at a new Airport Village station on the Airport line.

[SurfRail]

Not sure on how poll creation works, but what do people think about options for improving bus services to the Hamilton Northshore precinct?

Various options, including but not limited to
- Deviate 300
- Upgrade 305 to full time and reroute away from Racecourse Rd
- New service
- Attach a new service or the 305 to some other service for throughrouting advantages (eg 390, 380/381)
- Options for service characteristics (eg overlay 300 and 305 for 10 minute off-peak).
- Route 303 and 304 diversion (possible Doomben feeder)

[somebody]

Not sure on how poll creation works,

Next to the "new topic" button, there is a "Post new poll" button.

I think there is a need for a service on Racecourse Rd.  Or at least anecdotal evidence would suggest so.  Perhaps it should be a low frequency all stopper though, given that it is surrounded by KSD and Ascot train station.

A service running KSD/Nudgee Rd on paper seems quite logical.

I think the best thing for this part of town would be a reasonable train service to be honest.  Although Hamilton still needs the bus.

[jouzocha]

Train service would be good, but would take some time.  Bus can be done practically right away.

For now, I don't think it deserves a dedicated city route (not enough population yet).  I also don't think diverting 303/304 is the best idea, the major purpose of these routes is to service the Eagle Farm/Pinkenba industrial areas and the Aviation precinct, a diversion to Northshore is not really part of their purpose.

Maybe run a loop service that connects with Doomben Station/Racecourse Rd.

Start Lamington Ave @ Doomben Station, l. Nudgee Rd, r. Lancaster Rd, l. Racecourse Rd, l. Kingsford Smith Dr, r. Remora Rd, l. Macarthur Ave, follow Macarthur Ave loop (if this is possible for a bus, otherwise l. Barcham St), r. Curtin Ave West, l. Links Ave, l. Fison Ave West, l. Kingsford Smith Dr, r. Nudgee Rd, r. Hampden St, r. Stiva St, r. Lamington Ave, terminate Doomben Station.

[dwb]

Train service would be good, but would take some time.  Bus can be done practically right away.

For now, I don't think it deserves a dedicated city route (not enough population yet).  I also don't think diverting 303/304 is the best idea, the major purpose of these routes is to service the Eagle Farm/Pinkenba industrial areas and the Aviation precinct, a diversion to Northshore is not really part of their purpose.

Maybe run a loop service that connects with Doomben Station/Racecourse Rd.

Start Lamington Ave @ Doomben Station, l. Nudgee Rd, r. Lancaster Rd, l. Racecourse Rd, l. Kingsford Smith Dr, r. Remora Rd, l. Macarthur Ave, follow Macarthur Ave loop (if this is possible for a bus, otherwise l. Barcham St), r. Curtin Ave West, l. Links Ave, l. Fison Ave West, l. Kingsford Smith Dr, r. Nudgee Rd, r. Hampden St, r. Stiva St, r. Lamington Ave, terminate Doomben Station.

With this thinking I'd still drive.

[colinw]

Rail extension and an upgrade of the Doomben line is the logical thing to do. The journey time from Doomben by rail is significantly faster than by bus, and with developments proposed for the area there will be more than enough catchment to support a rail service.

The main thing holding the Doomben line patronage down is the appalling service (frequency & hours of operation), with a comparable service to the rest of Brisbane's lines it would return comparable patronage figures.

Unfortunately without an additional loop or duplication it appears that the simple expedient of extending all Cleveland services to Doomben will not work, unless services are turned back at Doomben in less than the usual amount of time.

[O_128]

Rail extension and an upgrade of the Doomben line is the logical thing to do. The journey time from Doomben by rail is significantly faster than by bus, and with developments proposed for the area there will be more than enough catchment to support a rail service.

The main thing holding the Doomben line patronage down is the appalling service (frequency & hours of operation), with a comparable service to the rest of Brisbane's lines it would return comparable patronage figures.

Unfortunately without an additional loop or duplication it appears that the simple expedient of extending all Cleveland services to Doomben will not work, unless services are turned back at Doomben in less than the usual amount of time.

hence why it won't happen

[duncang]

Received a letter in the post today regarding the BCC allocating $1.5M to further investigations into the KSD Stage 2 upgrade from Theodore St to Riverview Terrace.  This stretch includes the rail crossing of the Doomben line extension into Hamilton Northshore.

What are the chances that this stage of the KSD upgrade would include the construction of the rail line under/overpass?  I'm thinking low.... has anyone got the inside word?

No information yet that I've on community consultation (other than the concept drawings  ).. so no doubt that any works are still some years off.

D.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Jack all. 1.5m for about 1.5km of road. You'd need more than that for the bridge alone.

[duncang]

The $1.5M is just for investigations.. I would imagine that the actual works budget would be in the order of tens of Millions?

[Mr X]

Hundreds of millions? 

[colinw]

If they bring in the people who costed Epping to South Morang in Melbourne, yes!

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Car sharing solution for Kingsford Smith Drive gridlock

Car sharing solution for Kingsford Smith Drive gridlock
Tony Moore
November 19, 2011

A car sharing scheme has been proposed to lessen the impact of the Hamilton Northshore development on congested Kingsford Smith Drive, it has been revealed.

The developers behind the riverside residential project, the largest since South Bank, has plans to try the scheme to avoid dumping thousands of extra cars on the road.

Cars would be available to scheme members for the hour, or for the day.

ULDA urban development director Matt Leyshon said apartment prices in some Hamilton Northshore developments could be $50,000 cheaper without a garage space.

The 304-hectare Hamilton Northshore is one of four Brisbane projects being managed by the Urban Land Development Authority to fast-track housing stock for the city's property market.

It will house 15,000 people in mainly riverside apartment-style living over the next 15 to 20 years.

But the heavily-congested Kingsford Smith Drive, which runs along the Brisbane River, is a disadvantage for commuter residents and several stages of the road are now being widened.

Mr Leyshon said they wanted Hamilton Northshore to explore a car sharing scheme to reduce the traffic generated by the project.

"This type of program is more common in Europe, but has been implemented in Melbourne and Sydney, and Northshore Hamilton lends itself to programs like this working well," he said.

"Northshore Hamilton's close proximity to the city and public transport including the river network that the ULDA has helped to deliver, will appeal to residents who don't want the hassle and expense of owning a car."

He said the idea would be to expand the number of "car sharing" car park spaces as the development grew.

"Assuming this is viable, we would on the ULDA land, expand that number of carparking locations through the development."  

Mr Leyshon said the car sharing would be accessible through an iPhone app.

"Essentially you have an app on your iPhone, it shows you a map of where the car is," he said.

"I understand you could swipe your phone on the dash – there's a little reader – and off you go."

Mr Leyshon said the ULDA was strongly backing the car sharing scheme.

Sydney-based car sharing company Go Get marketing manager Richard Tourino said his company would be interested in bidding should the scheme go out to tender.

"We would definitely be interested in that," he said.

Go Get has 600 cars in Sydney and 57 cars operating in Melbourne. Car sharers pay $29 a month, plus $5.65 a person and 39 cents a kilometre. Petrol is paid for by the company.

CityCat ferry services started from Hamilton Northshore in October. Mr Leyshon said the ULDA had spoken with Translink about the introduction of feeder buses to take residents to Doomben train stations, which could start as soon as next year.

Mr Leyshon said connecting the rail line down into the Hamilton Northshore development was allowed in the  master plan, but still a long way from being considered.

Four of southeast Queensland's biggest residential property developers have apartment complexes under construction at the site including Devine Limited; Mirvac, Australand, Citimark and Brookfield.

There are about 300 residents living in the first apartments in the Portside Wharf area, which has been developed by Brookfield.

In early 2012, Brookfield will open 172 apartments in their new Promenade development over 15 storeys.

Australand will start work early in 2012 on 90 apartments and villas in a lower-styled development along 530 metres of the river's edge.

About 60 hectares of Port of Brisbane land was transferred to the ULDA in 2010.

In the longer-term, the ULDA is exploring the possibility of extending passenger services from the Doomben rail line into the site.

In 2008, when the concept plan was first announced, then-deputy premier Paul Lucas said he believed the major developers would contribute to improving public transport.

"The concept master plan has been made future proof by including options of extending the existing Doomben rail line and also a multi-modal public transport corridor off Kingsford Smith Drive through the heart of the precinct," he said in 2008.

"I'm keen to see the results of investigations that will be done into how much developers will be able to contribute to potential public transport options."

The Queensland government had no plans to expand the Doomben rail line until 2031.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/car-sharing-solution-for-kingsford-smith-drive-gridlock-20111118-1nmgr.html

... In the longer-term, the ULDA is exploring the possibility of extending passenger services from the Doomben rail line into the site.

In 2008, when the concept plan was first announced, then-deputy premier Paul Lucas said he believed the major developers would contribute to improving public transport.

"The concept master plan has been made future proof by including options of extending the existing Doomben rail line and also a multi-modal public transport corridor off Kingsford Smith Drive through the heart of the precinct," he said in 2008.

"I'm keen to see the results of investigations that will be done into how much developers will be able to contribute to potential public transport options."

The Queensland government had no plans to expand the Doomben rail line until 2031 ...

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

19th November2011

SEQ: The next station ... is North Shore

Greetings,

The Doomben rail line is gold.

--->   http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4852.msg39278#msg39278

Time we make use of our existing infrastructure, rather than fantasise about  dreams in glossy brochures ....

Car sharing schemes have their place ( Car sharing solution for gridlock
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/car-sharing-solution-for-kingsford-smith-drive-gridlock-20111118-1nmgr.html ), but frequent safe public transport is what is really needed

Best wishes
Robert

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

==========================



Media release 16 November 2010 re-released 19 November 2011

SEQ: The next station ... is North Shore

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters believes that Brisbane could have its own North Shore rail line.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"North Shore Hamilton is set to become Brisbane's next South Bank. And any transport solution must include upgrading and extending the Doomben Line in a cutting under Kingsford Smith to new station(s), including at North Shore Hamilton."

The extension and revitalisation of the existing Doomben line will provide:

* The highest level of capacity (a 6 car SMU 260 train every 10 minutes in peak would move 5496 people, even more if more frequent)
* The highest level of speed (Doomben trains are up to 13 minutes faster to the CBD than the route 305 bus)
* The highest level of reliability
* The highest level of traffic priority (completely separate from the road network and road congestion)
* The highest level of network integration and mobility
* The highest level of support for Transit Oriented Development (TOD)
* The highest level of safety for transport, (train travel is safer than car travel)
* The highest level of passenger comfort (smooth ride, many trains are brand new with more to come)
* The highest level of image and quality of service
* The highest level of cost efficiency
* The highest level of labour productivity (2 staff per 916 passengers) (1)
* The highest environmental benefits, with zero local exhaust
* The reduction in the costs of road trauma
* Quick to implement and value for money by leveraging off existing rail infrastructure
* Significantly improved rail services for Clayfield, Ascot, Hendra and Doomben residents
* Interchange with buses will allow access to rail from street stops

"In the 1950s works pre-prepared the Doomben line for duplication, and an extension to North Shore Hamilton isn't far which makes it a real goer. The rail station and high quality services will transform the land use around the station and is a perfect match for TOD."

"The people in the extra 3000 vehicles in peak hour mentioned in the media articles could easily be carried by the train with room to spare and further prospects for future capacity increases if required (2). A single, quick interchange at Eagle Junction, Central or Roma Street would allow quick access to destinations all over SEQ on rapid ExpressLink, UrbanLink and Cross-River Rail trains and to all destinations on the busway network."

"RAIL Back on Track agrees that all levels of government- councils, state and federal could contribute. (2) As the Moreton Bay Regional Council and Gold Coast City Council have contributed funds ($105 million for heavy rail, $120 million for Light Rail, respectively) a contribution from the Brisbane City Council to make this rail project happen would not be unprecedented. (3)"

"Now is the time to take off the 'road coloured glasses' and look for real solutions that will still work as petrol prices and interest rates continue going through the roof. (4) Many overseas places have already made tracks (5)", Mr Dow concluded.

References:

1. Queensland Rail, Fleet
http://www.queenslandrail.com.au/RailServices/City/Fleet/Pages/SMU260.aspx

2. Northshore Hamilton affordable housing development to choke Kingsford Smith Drive
http://www.couriermail.com.au/property/northshore-hamilton-affordable-housing-development-to-choke-kingsford-smith-drive/story-e6frequ6-1225953459721

3. SEQ: Rail to Kippa-Ring, just the thing!
http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4845.0

4. Road Coloured Glasses
http://backontrack.org/images/rcg.png

5. Look to Vancouver, town planners told
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/11/15/3066974.htm

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[colinw]

How close is the proposed Hamilton North Shore station site to the CityCat terminal?

[#Metro]

Car sharing is nice but you still need MASS transit. Car sharing simply doesn't have the capacity...

[SurfRail]

How close is the proposed Hamilton North Shore station site to the CityCat terminal?

Not very.  I believe it is about equidistant to Bretts Wharf and Northshore - probably walkable, but not exactly right next door.

[O_128]

Car sharing is nice but you still need MASS transit. Car sharing simply doesn't have the capacity...

You have to worry about ULDA, one of there big things is TOD yet not a single development has it locked in. Northshore, RNA, Caloundra, Flagstone. and now there bring up this car sharing rubbish etc.

I don't want to see any road plans for KSD until the effect of the airport link opening is taken into account. Not to mention why the hell a cost benefit analysis hasn't been done on road v rail for this corridor.

[Mr X]

KSD needs a BUZ in the short term 

[ozbob]

... Mr Leyshon said the ULDA had spoken with Translink about the introduction of feeder buses to take residents to Doomben train stations, which could start as soon as next year ...

At least Mr Leyshon is starting to 'talk the talk', whether the 'talk' is actually 'walked' is another matter.  But encouraging ....

[ButFli]

A car sharing program will not have any effect on congestion. People who want to drive will still drive and there will still be an extra car on the road because of it. The only things that change is the owner of the car and how many car parks are required. This car sharing proposal is nothing more than a poor excuse for a developer to get out of the car parking requirements for development approval.

[Gazza]

I do think of it this way. You have no car and you have to rent the car share one.
That has costs associated at the point of use, like a road user charge or type of congestion tax.
You're suddenly having to pay the real cost of motoring (After all, the cars are owned by a company, and they need to cover their costs)
That makes people think about their usage.

That said, a KSD BUZ and Doomben extension (PS can we modify the press release so it says Flyover rather than cutting?) is better of course.

[ozbob]

That said, a KSD BUZ and Doomben extension (PS can we modify the press release so it says Flyover rather than cutting?) is better of course.

No, that is how it went originally went out.  Doesn't really matter the principle is the same, extend the line  The original concept was a cutting by the way.

[ozbob]

Media release 19th August 2012

SEQ: No more lazy Sundays for the Doomben line

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers calls for the Government to commit to the reintroduction of Sunday services and expanded weekday and Saturday services for the Doomben line (1).

The Doomben line is one of only 2 railway lines in Australia's capital city rail networks not to receive any service at all on a Sunday, a "distinction" shared only with the Tonsley line in Adelaide.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"With an enormous influx of development occurring in the adjacent Northshore Hamilton precinct, the time has come to make the Doomben line pull its weight.  The fact there are no Sunday services on this line and no competing freight traffic except seasonal grain trains make this even more compelling."

"Initially, we call on the government to duplicate the Saturday timetable on Sundays and public holidays.  Over time, we call on the government to commit to a minimum half-hourly frequency on the Doomben line from 6am to 9pm, 7 days a week, with additional trains in the weekday peak running at least 20 minutes apart.  These services only need to operate between Doomben and Roma Street to ensure connectivity to the rest of the railway and busway network.  Ultimately, the Doomben line's service profile should be directly comparable to the Shorncliffe line, with trains running well into the night - there is no reason for the mediocre to non-existent levels of service offered."

"Passengers on an inner-city railway line should not have to frantically consult a timetable to work out whether their train has magically turned into a bus depending on what time of day it is.  This is simply not good enough for a 21st century transport system."

"Even 3-car sets would be adequate - it would be a 3-car improvement on the current Sunday timetable!"

"With no firm commitment from any level of government to the proposed upgrades to Kingsford-Smith Drive, and thousands of people moving into the Hamilton region, RAIL Back on Track members consider that the State Government and Brisbane City Council should consider funding this upgrade in lieu of further road upgrades.  These additional services could be delivered for substantially less than the $18 million frequency upgrade being planned for the longer and busier Ferny Grove line, and certainly for less than widening Kingsford-Smith Drive."

"Building a high-density residential precinct near a working railway with practically no trains, when there is no reason why they cannot be put on will continue to entrench a culture of transport failure that we can ill afford (2)."

References:

1. http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/network-information/timetables/120723-doomben-line.pdf

2. http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4852.0

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[#Metro]

I agree. Brisbane City Council should be able to fund train services if it wishes to, so long as they are within their boundaries. Money should be seen as going to TransLink rather than just going to BT.

[SurfRail]

I agree. Brisbane City Council should be able to fund train services if it wishes to, so long as they are within their boundaries. Money should be seen as going to TransLink rather than just going to BT.

Going to disagree, BCC should get out of the PT picture. Its major part in providing PT to Brisbane has lead to this ongoing Buses vs trains that even under Translink partly continues. Brisbane PT it not confined by the boundry's of BCC and yes while Doomben line falls within BCC, this is irrelevent. On the whole as explained in another tread, this multi govt go funding BS needs to stop.

None of that is especially pertinent to the problem at hand, and we aren't going to solve the vertical fiscal imbalance overnight.

BCC will continue to tip money into public transport for the foreseeable future.

[SurfRail]

Agree, its a long-term fix, but could be done in about 3 years, how any other councils fund PT? But crying out to BCC to fund the Doomben line operation isn't the answer either, think about where could this stop?

How many other councils have a population bigger than Tasmania, the ACT and the NT combined?

Saying BCC should have the same funding roles and responsibilities as say Waverley or Randwick doesn't cut the mustard with me.  I don't want them running things, but funding things is a different story.

Local governments funding PT is common everywhere in the world.  Here, local government spend a fortune on local roads and sewerage and other civic infrastructure, so in all seriousness why not tip some money into the rail network?