Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study

[HappyTrainGuy]

Has anyone considered creating an additional stop on the existing Brisbane to Sydney Service on the interstate line?

1.  Building a Station that is compatible with both Standard and Narrow Gauge Trains on the interstate line before the proposed branch line to Beausdesert.  The narrow gauge branch line can be built at a later stage when demand is sufficient.
2.  Have the Sydney bound existing XPT afternoon and the Brisbane bound existing XPT morning services stop here
3.  Extend the Existing Sydney to Casino service to Brisbane that would provide additional outbound service in the afternoon,  and inbound service in the morning

Infrastructure wise you are only looking at a single station plus carparking on the main line before the proposed branch line,  as well as an additional stations as required.

Services wise,  Translink could subsidies fares between Brisbane and the proposed station to Countrylink,  on both the existing service and the extended Casino Service,  so that the fares are still within the  normal translink price range.

It would be the same effect of getting the TiltTrain to now stop at Lansbrough. Since they are long distance trains it doesn't make sense to have short trip passengers as your limiting the seats that one could take from Brisbane to over the border.

[bernied]

Having the XPT service the area would not be a long term solution,   but an short term solution.  It could provide one of the better value of money solutions with the least amount of infrastructure for the next 5 years for heavy rail services,  as only 1 station needs to be constructed and no additional rail carriages needs to be introduced.

Wouldn't it be easier to work with what you have got for the short term,  which would provide a business case to introduce NG services in the futre?

This would be no different to VLine services in VIC,  or Countrylink Services in NSW,  they work ok in conjuction with regular suburban services.

I like outside Pakenham in VIC,  we have the normal Metro Pakenham line,  as well as VLine Services to Bairnsdale / Sale / Traralgon.

[bernied]

VLine Services in Victoria do stop regional centres just outside the Metro area,  Nar Nar Goon is only 10 minutes away from the last station Pakenham outside the Metro serviced area,  yet the service from Southern Cross to Bairnsdale is 2hrs 40mins

The current XPT Sydney to Brisbane service stops at Suburban stations in Sydney ( Strathfield,  Hornsby ) then at Gosford which is only 40 minutes from the Hornby.  All that would be happening is mirroring what is happening on the Sydney side of the service with Brisbane,  adding an additional station within 40 minutes of the last metro stop.

This would be the same as Wyong and Gosford XPT passengers travelling to sydney ( 1hr 20 mins from sydney by XPT )

I doubt the Sydney to Brisbane XPT service would be running at capacity,  and any additional passengers would go to help keep the service.

Some of the newer VLine services require passengers to "reserve" seats as well.

[SurfRail]

1. The current daily XPT arrives before the AM peak and departs during the AM peak (ie against the flow).  This is an unfortunate side effect of running times being oriented on Sydney and the fact it takes a day for the Xtremely Pathetic Train to actually get up here and back down again.  Thus, not a great deal of benefit in the current service, which could only offer AM peak capacity at best.

2. If you retimetabled/extended a Grafton or Casino terminating train to provide a PM peak service, you end up with the same problem.  Less Gold Coast trains, or less space for Beenleigh expansion as Gold Coast trains are displaced off the dual gauge track.

3. Buses can do the same thing using free space on the XPT can do, for much cheaper, with more certain passenger capacity not reliant on slow bookings, and without chewing up train paths for local services.

[Gazza]

Out of interest, how does the travel speed of the XPT compare to what a coach could do SYD-BNE?

[ghostryder]

All
For starters the trip times for Sydney to Brisbane is 14hr's 18 minutes. The turn around time is 1 hour, during this hour the train is cleaned and seats turned around to face the direction of travel and is resupplied for the journey south. The journey time between Brisbane to Sydney is 13hr's 36 minutes. There have been discussions about the extension of a second Xpt to Brisbane but i think an issue of cost was one of the reasons cited for it not going ahead. Queensland Government pay part of the operating costs of the current service but were not willing to put in for a second service.

scott

[colinw]

I see no value at all in running standard gauge services on this line.  The XPT runs at inconvenient times, and extension of the afternoon Casino service to Brisbane would just add another counter-peak service.

IMHO rail to Browns Plains, Flagstone & Beaudesert is going to have to be a dedicated passenger line adjacent to the interstate line, and in any case must wait for CRR to be complete before it proceeds.

I think it is necessary within 20 or so years 'though.  The section from Acacia Ridge to Browns Plains/Greenbank would support a service right now if we could provide one.

[ozbob]

Couriermail Quest --> Queensland politician calls for passenger train services between Brisbane to Beaudesert

THE idea of a railway connecting Brisbane with Beaudesert has been resurrected thanks to a first-term southside politician.

Algester state LNP MP Anthony Shorten is renewing calls for a trial passenger service along freight lines between Salisbury and Beaudesert, about five years after a similar plan by former Beaudesert MP Aidan McLindon was shelved.

Mr Shorten said more than two-thirds of respondents to a community survey sent to about 6500 homes in Algester and Parkinson would use a train if they had the option.

About 65 per cent answered in the affirmative, he said.

"I'm 45 and we've been speaking about this infrastructure since before I was born," Mr Shorten said.

"The one thing that I would like to see in this job, whether I'm in it for a short or long time, is this railway started and ultimately finished. It's necessary, it's needed."

Mr Shorten said he proposed the trial of six peak-hour services a day between temporary stations at Algester, Hillcrest, Flagstone and Beaudesert using rolling stock from NSW.

He said the trial would be with the view of building a new track — estimated to cost more than $1 billion — to connect Brisbane and satellite cities such as Flagstone, which is projected to have a population of 130,000 by 2031.

Construction is expected to begin on a dual-gauge line between Ipswich and Kagaru, near Jimboomba, in 2015 as part of Australia Rail Track Corporation's Inland Rail program.

"They are looking at the rail corridor as it is now and looking at creating links from Acacia Ridge to Brisbane Port," Mr Shorten said.

"They should look at (building) a passenger line at the same time."

Rail Back On Track's Robert Dow agreed there was a strong case for the service.

"There really needs to be a second independent Queensland-gauge railway line for commuters and freights," he said.

The Queensland Department of Main Roads and Transport has played down the chances of a proposal to trial a passenger railway service along the Salisbury-Beaudesert freight line.

A spokesman said TMR had no plans to progress the idea as of August.

"In 2010, TMR completed a long-term planning study on a future passenger rail line from Salisbury to Beaudesert, which would connect to the existing Citytrain network," the spokesman said in a statement.

"The proposed rail corridor identified in the study followed the existing interstate freight line from Salisbury to Kagaru, before connecting across to Beaudesert."

He said the study identified "several constraints" in introducing interim rail services.

"While financial constraints are an issue, there are also capacity concerns on the rail network and interstate freight line which would not allow for a regular timetable passenger service to operate," he said.

[dancingmongoose]

We need passenger services between Toowoomba and Brisbane too, and we already have stations along that route! I say wait until the inland rail is built through there before we worry about passenger services. Hopefully the guys building Inland rail have some brains and build it dual gauge dual track

[#Metro]

There already are buses between Toowoomba and Brisbane, non-TL service.

Not so much constraint if the service is run as peak only, even might be financially neutral if peak only. On the other hand space over the merivale is limited.

[SurfRail]

The start up costs would be much too great for this to work as a "trial".  No rollingstock exists, the signalling doesn't work for what is planned (plus it is NSW single light color light territory south of Acacia Ridge meaning you would need to qualify drivers), QR doesn't have access rights to the track, there are no train paths meaning someone else loses out or you have to build a new platform face somewhere and force a transfer...

[ozbob]

Couriermail Quest --> Logan City's west has a train line, a train station and a demand for a service. But why has it no train?

Welcome to Greenbank station ... where residents will be waiting a long time – perhaps as much as 40 years – to catch a train to town.

Until then, the only people able to view Greenbank station from a train window are on their way to Sydney.

That's the irony for hopeful local commuters along the much-touted Beaudesert to Salisbury rail line, the track successive State Governments have promised to convert from an interstate freight and passenger service to part of the TransLink commuter system.

Albert & Logan News can now reveal the government department charged with developing the rail corridor doubts the "projected growth and development" in the area will meet the levels required to justify its construction for decades.

A letter written by the Department of Transport and Main Roads (DTMR), dated October last year, was discovered as part of a development application to subdivide a Forestdale property.

It states that although the land "is within the vicinity of the Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor", "the rail will not be needed in the next 40 years or more".

The letter contradicts the department's planning document Connecting SEQ 2031.

A DTMR spokesman said the department had "begun a project to prepare regional transport plans for all regions across the state" but did not say when that project began.

"There is no funding currently allocated for construction of this (Salisbury to Beaudesert rail line) infrastructure," he said.

"Our examination of infrastructure provision for public transport in southeast Queensland includes a review of Connecting SEQ 2031 assumptions, growth rates and impacts of other projects in southeast Queensland."

Mayor Pam Parker says the project would provide essential public transport infrastructure to future development areas of Greater Flagstone and the South Western Corridor.

"This rail project is key to providing public transport to approximately 50,000 homes and establishment of public transport usage," Cr Parker said.

"A passenger rail service between Brisbane and Beaudesert would make a substantial contribution to increasing the desirability and potential for residential and employment development (at) Greater Flagstone; Greenbank; The New Beith – Round Mountain Identified Growth Area; North Maclean Identified Growth Area and Jimboomba."

Ex-Algester MP Anthony Shorten said he campaigned heavily, but unsuccessfully for a passenger rail trial on the Sydney-Brisbane freight line that runs through Salisbury to Beaudesert.

"To electrify (the line to run passenger trains) would roughly cost $1.8 billion," he said.

"I was told that it was too costly, and in fact the department would constantly come back to me and say there wasn't enough people to use it.

"My argument to them always was to build it in stages to catchment areas.

"Buses are currently running to the city from the area and they are all full."

He said one "out-of-the-box" idea was to run a trial of services, using NSW trains that could run on the track, which has a wider gauge than the rest of the southeast Queensland commuter train network.

[ozbob]

From Couriermail Quest Logan News 1st October 2015 page 5

Station with no trains

[#Metro]

The station may have no trains, but it also has no passengers either. Its in whoop-whoop.
It is a poor alignment. Much better to have something go down Mains road corridor such as class B busway or even a proper busway.

Sunnybank-Browns Plains Busway via Mains Rd would have so many more passengers, and speed up existing buses also. Could be coupled with TOD at shopping centres, provided that DTMR/TransLink actually press for this, not like what they did at Holland Pk West.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zo2O13ByWclc.k2Fa_IEcHigo&usp=sharing

[ozbob]

I have done some rail replacement bus trips out from Sherwood this weekend - track closure Sherwood <> Rosewood.

It is slow, and inefficient and very frustrating compared to the normal rail journeys, to be expected of course. The bus drivers do a good job, as do staff, but it really is not optimal.  But it again highlights how valuable class A right of way is, be it rail or dedicated busways etc.  We must keep pushing for the rail system to be used optimally as for dedicated bus priority. 

I noted some SNOs at Sherwood.  I think they would have a field day if they checked go cards on the rail replacement buses ... 

[dancingmongoose]

Yes we want the line developed, but the reality is that until CRR is built there is no capacity. During peak hours it would need to be a shuttle to Salisbury. Would there even enough capacity to run it through to terminate at Corinda? I don't know what patronage is like on the Beenleigh line but to be dumping like a dozen stations worth of patronage on another train that's already come from Beenleigh just isn't feasible.

[colinw]

Without CRR this entire discussion is pointless.  Not happening, period.

[ozbob]

Jimboomba Times --> Council commitment to push for Integrated Regional Transport Plan

The long-awaited passenger rail link between Salisbury and Beaudesert is marginally closer to reality.

During a visit to Parliament this month, Logan City Council pledged to set aside $4 million over the next few years to get the wheels rolling on the railway project.

City treasurer Trevina Schwarz said the commitment was used as an incentive for the Queensland government to develop an Integrated Regional Transport Plan.

"We're willing to contribute to bring the project forward because we've been waiting since the 80s to see some movement on the proposed rail line," she said.

"Council should not have to fund these things, but we have been left with no other alternative for our residents.

"We still don't have any confidence or confirmation on when and if the project will be delivered, so we're going to put our money at the table to get some certainty."

If constructed in the future, the Salisbury to Beaudesert passenger rail line – set to follow the alignment of the existing Brisbane–Sydney rail line – would operate as an extension of the existing Citytrain network.

The development would service south-west Logan and parts of the Scenic Rim.

The rail link project, set to commence after the completion of the Cross River Rail in 2026, is expected to cost up to $2 billion.

"This project is well overdue, and not having a rail line through south-west Logan, as well as very few buses, puts a lot of pressure on residents," Cr Schwarz said.

"Families need two cars just to get around, and we need a definite as to if the Salisbury to Beaudesert line is actually going to happen."

Logan MP Linus Power said he was "pleased to see council get involved in the project" and referred to a statement from the Department of Transport and Main Roads (DTMR) that was issued by his office.

"The Department of Transport and Main Roads is currently leading the Salisbury to Beaudesert Passenger Rail corridor study, which will be completed in 2018, and will confirm and protect a corridor for the link and identify potential staging options for delivery," a DTMR spokesperson said.

"Cross River Rail is the enabler for all the rail public transport projects in south-east Queensland and not building Cross River Rail will significantly impact capacity management on the City Rail network.

"Currently, all trains go through a congested, single, four-track corridor through the CBD and if we do not build Cross River Rail to relieve capacity problems on the city network we cannot maximise the benefits of duplicating existing rail lines or proposed new lines like Salisbury to Beaudesert."

Yet another corridor study, the circular arguments and nonsense continue ..

[#Metro]

The alignment is poor. A better alignment is straight down Mains Road, and this could be done with either a busway extension or a metro.

I could see passenger rail out to there, but a Mains Road Metro or Busway would have higher priority due to the huge patronage it would attract.

[aldonius]

The alignment is poor. A better alignment is straight down Mains Road, and this could be done with either a busway extension or a metro.

A Mains Rd busway is more or less justifiable now.
But that's no reason for people south of Browns Plains to have buses as their CBD line haul.

The main purpose of passengerifying the Beaudesert corridor is to provide linehaul to the Flagstone growth area. That the stations closer in will permit the elimination of the 130 in its current form is just a bonus.

[SteelPan]

Meanwhile....from George St.....ZZZZZZZZZZ.......ZZZZZZZZZZZZ........ZZZZZZZZZZZ........ 

[tazzer9]

The Standard gauge line does need some upgrades.  The alignment is generally good, but small realignments would do wonders.  And Duplication to just south of bromelton.

A short term solution is do all the upgrades required for freight, build some small, basic stations and run a DMU shuttle to salisbury (with a new platform).  Even if its a standard gauge DMU it would still work. (the endeavour is looking like a real possibility with the XPT replacement).

No CRR required for this.   

[OzGamer]

The Standard gauge line does need some upgrades.  The alignment is generally good, but small realignments would do wonders.  And Duplication to just south of bromelton.

A short term solution is do all the upgrades required for freight, build some small, basic stations and run a DMU shuttle to salisbury (with a new platform).  Even if its a standard gauge DMU it would still work. (the endeavour is looking like a real possibility with the XPT replacement).

No CRR required for this.

A standard gauge DMU could go all the way to Roma St post CRR

[tazzer9]

It could, but i would generally be against that during off peak.  peak have maybe 2-3 services, similar to southern highlands line.    You would need to add a SG rail to south brisbane platform 3, and using the dual gauge line isn't  ideal. 

[Gazza]

I was thinking of how you might do this, but I reckon maybe branch said line, with an elevated line deviating off the interstate corridor, elevated running east over browns plains rd then turn south at Bayliss Rd to follow the Park Ridge connector corridor.

Then have two patterns. Every 15 mins to park ridge spur all stops, and every 30 mins to Beadesert, express from Parkinson to Salisbury.

[HappyTrainGuy]

And where and who will be maintaining this DMU that everyone is speaking of???

[#Metro]

Aurizon perhaps?

[HappyTrainGuy]

They don't do passenger.

[#Metro]

I don't have strong feelings about this either way. Not asking them to run passenger services, just to maintain the trains etc.

[HappyTrainGuy]

And they won't do any such thing. Aurizon have terminated all passenger related contracts which was mostly overhauls. And Acacia Ridge is set up for quick running mtce on locomotives. Not passenger rollingstock. You effectively have to build a whole new depot for the DMU. If you go down the DMU path it must be narrow gauge and mtce would be undertaken at Mayne.

[Marshal]

When ever the deisel based service idea pops up it quickly becomes apparent that by the time you have purchased the rolling stock, built some basic stations, hired the staff and set up maintance facilities, you've spent so much on the bare bones temp solution that you may as well have just built the proper electric line in the first place.

If running a shuttle service to Salisbury was worth doing, just build the electric track properly and use emu. Despite the existing track you can't cut corners here

[Old Northern Road]

Most people from Browns Plains, Calamvale etc would continue to use to buses anyway as they are more convenient and south of Browns Plains doesn't even have the population to support an hourly bus service let alone a train. The line is many decades away

One thing for sure is that the line will never reach Beaudesert as it is another 20km south of Flagstone and only has a population of 6000 people

[OzGamer]

My suggestion for using a standard gauge DMU was that it would be like an aircraft wet lease, in which it would be operated and maintained by NSW State Rail or similar under a lease agreement. In this way you could run it as a trial at much lower cost than establishing all of the infrastructure.

Just an idea.

[HappyTrainGuy]

My suggestion for using a standard gauge DMU was that it would be like an aircraft wet lease, in which it would be operated and maintained by NSW State Rail or similar under a lease agreement. In this way you could run it as a trial at much lower cost than establishing all of the infrastructure.

Just an idea.

Once again. You still have to establish all the mtce facilities. There aren't any up this way. Acacia Ridge does have facilities but these are for locomotives. Not passenger services. If there's a fault it can't go to Mayne. If there is a fault I think Newcastle is the closest facility.

[Gazza]

Is it really that much of a stretch to purchase additional equipment at a relevant diesel facility in SEQ?

I mean, that would be cheaper than a new Greenfield depot right?

PS random question lol, but why do you write mtce in short form but locomotive in long form?

[HappyTrainGuy]

Predictive text on my phone and force of habit 

[Gazza]

So this is how you might do rail lines to that part of Brisbane in the long term:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ZkGhRLdDdfiFXd8q9E6NGMrgP8k&usp=sharing

[Marshal]

I see the appeal of a station just outside Grand Plaza, but I'm not sure if a Hillcrest and Browns Plains station so close to eachother are ideal. Perhaps a proper junction station replacing both would be better. You'd lose proximity to Plaza but save the cost of a whole station.

Would create a huge incentive to develop around Park Ridge South, Chambers Flats, Logan Village and Munruben, which by observational evidence is going to be developed. The urban development is steadily creeping along down there, and developers are buying up the large residential lots around Logan Reserve and Chambers Flats in preparation.

[aldonius]

A friend of mine is working on a plan in which the corridor deviates from the interstate line into Grand Plaza, splits there, and then the Flagstone line rejoins the interstate. So, that's an option.

[Gazza]

I see the appeal of a station just outside Grand Plaza, but I'm not sure if a Hillcrest and Browns Plains station so close to eachother are ideal. Perhaps a proper junction station replacing both would be better. You'd lose proximity to Plaza but save the cost of a whole station.

I think the whole point was to have a station at the plaza so the area can be built up.
The last thing I'd want is another Mango Hill where the station is kinda near, but far enough away to stump its true success.
The cost of stations is pretty low in the context of the project, and I have tried to be pretty sparing.

The hillcrest station is the marginal one, though could probably be a good park and ride site.....

A friend of mine is working on a plan in which the corridor deviates from the interstate line into Grand Plaza, splits there, and then the Flagstone line rejoins the interstate. So, that's an option.

I was wondering about that...Would you say branch sharply east and follow the mt lindsay highway, then rejoin around greenbank?

also, looking at the geography of the area, would a T-way connecting flagstone, Jimboomba and Yarrabilba be a good move?