Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study

[curator49]

BTW the current standard gauge line from Acacia Ridge through Kagaru to Bromelton is being dual gauged so that 3 ft 6 ins gauge freight trains can travel to and from Acacia Ridge and points north (Rockhampton/Townsville/Cairns). In addition a new 3 ft 6 ins gauge bypass line is to be built from the Ipswich - Toowoomba line direct to Bromelton for freight trains from the west. Thus the need for a Beaudesert Bypass and upgrades for the Mount Lindsay Highway. The rail yard at Bromelton is intended as a major rail/road interchange.

Sorry, a bit off subject.

[#Metro]

Had a look into this.
I can confirm that a new motorway looks very likely- its in the presentation video of the SEQ 2031.
Goes to Yarrabilla.

[#Metro]

From the roads factsheet, SEQ 2031:

Some key future road network improvements

• extension of Gateway Motorway to Jimboomba

• investigate urban arterial from west of
Mt Lindesay to east of Spring Mountain

• investigate Southern Infrastructure
Road Corridor between Flagstone and
the Pacific Motorway

[#Metro]

IMHO the rail line (as is presented by the study) is viable NOW all the way to Hillcrest/Browns Plains.
Maybe the medians could be used for median busways*/priority lanes for buses?
That would increase bus capacity and go some way to solve the access problem.

* I mean busway in the general understanding- a non grade separated dedicated lane for buses, nothing on the scale of the SE busway.

[Jonno]

Vancouver has done extensive cut and cover construction of rail lines along similar roads with manageable disruption.  It can be done and is not extrordinalrily expensive. 

[#Metro]

Successive city councils in the 1970s and 1980s prohibited the construction of freeways as part of a long term plan.[150] As a result, the only major freeway within city limits is Highway 1, which passes through the north-eastern corner of the city. While the number of cars in Vancouver proper has been steadily rising with population growth, the rate of car ownership and the average distance driven by daily commuters have fallen since the early 1990s.[151][152] Vancouver is the only major Canadian city with these trends. Despite the fact that the journey time per vehicle has increased by one third and growing traffic mass, there are 7% fewer cars making trips into the downtown core.[151] Residents have been more inclined to live in areas closer to their interests, or use more energy-efficient means of travel, such as mass transit and cycling. This is, in part, the result of a push by city planners for a solution to traffic problems and pro-environment campaigns. Transportation demand management policies have imposed restrictions on drivers making it more difficult and expensive to commute while introducing more benefits for non-drivers.[151]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver

Vancouver doesn't exist
Vancouver doesn't exist
Vancouver doesn't exist

[colinw]

Why cut & cover at all?

Why are we so scared to take a kerbside lane away for LRT.  Half the time those lanes are full of parked cars anyway.

IMHO the kerbside lane on a major road should be a priority corridor for BRT or LRT, and providing adequate parking is the responsibility of the property owner or business owner.

Trams back along Logan Road, Ipswich Road, Beaudesert Road, but not in the centre this time.

[#Metro]

I think there could be a mix. Mains road can run in the centre IMHO. The median is more than enough there.
Kerb lane running has its own problems, but can be used if no other options are available.

In the congested core section, LRT should be underground to insulated it from mass network disruption and to keep the speeds high.

[Golliwog]

IMO light rail can still be on the surface and keep speeds high through the use of a dedicated lane and traffic light priority. More cost effective, especially with Brisbanes underground CBD as cramped as it already is.

[#Metro]

This talk of LRT should probably be in another thread, but I disagree.
If there are to be LRVs at metro frequency with metro reliability and capacity, they should be underground in the core as a matter of good practice and principle. It is also politically easier as it would remove the powerful Property Council, cyclist, SOV motorist, couriers and retailers objections to the installation of LRT in the CBD. If the buses do it, I cannot see why LRT should not also do it too.

The surface dedicated lane and priority traffic light signaling can be deployed outside the core, which is what the systems in Germany do.
There are some things that should never be cost-cut.

[somebody]

Kerb lane running has its own problems,

You mean left turning traffic needs to cross the tram, and no parking?  I'd gladly accept that if it meant that pedestrians aren't thrown into the traffic flow, which is one of the major problems with street running trams.

[curator49]

This thread has totally lost the plot. It is supposed to be about the Salisbury- Beaudert Rail Corridor and a Government department's study on this.

This thread is now fantasising about heavy rail or light rail along Beaudert Road, Mains Road, underground rail lines (heavy) or underground light rail and now the thread is about Metros. Should a light rail be down the centre of the road or beside the footpath, up in the air or beneath the houses. Who cares? If you want to discuss this sure, put a brief comment on this thread directing people who are interested to a new thread specifically talking about those issues and their alternatives.

[curator49]

I am not trying to stifle debate on those other side issues raised but to try to help future posters to find a relevant thread. If a thread starts discussing "Light Rail along Mains Road" it would be easy to find what discussion has gone previously - days, weeks or months previously - by looking under that Subject line. A person (I almost said "Somebody"  ) would hardly look under the Subject Line Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study to find out what they want to know (about "Light Rail on Mains Road")

[colinw]

Agreed, we've wandered well off topic here.  A new thread and some clean up is called for.

[mufreight]

Must agree Curator 49 and colinw some good ideas get posted but get lost in a sea of irrelevant and impractical fantasy which unfortunately does little for the credibility of this forum.

Curator49 has presented the balanced argument for those making posts to remain relevant and practical to the thread.   

[colinw]

Trying to get back on topic  now ...

In my opinion, the timing for the first stage of "ExpressLink" commuter rail along the interstate line should be to Greenbank by 2020 at the latest, following on from 2016 opening of CRR.  There's no point doing it before CRR is open, simply no capacity for peak services across Merivale Bridge, and making people change trains at Salisbury would not be popular although it might be workable as an interim measure.

Also, and I can't point at relevant documents, but I believe the Gateway Motorway extension from where it meets the Logan Motorway at Browns Plains down to join the Mt Lindesay Highway at Park Ridge is planned for around 2020.  With yet another motorway going in to the Browns Plains area we desperately need a matching investment in rail to the area to stop it becoming even more car dominated once yet another high standard road goes in.

Does anyone know the timing of the planned Gateway extensions?  The last document on the subject I read only mentioned Browns Plains to Park Ridge, there was no suggestion of taking the Gateway all the way to Jimboomba, but that seems to have crept into the 2031 vision now.

curator49 - is any progress on the dual gauge visible?  The last time I was down that way it hadn't much changed in months, 3rd rail in place to about Kagaru, DG sleepers but no 3rd rail at Bromelton, and DG points not yet installed at Greenbank.  Also, in response to my last post on the subject, Mufreight informed us that it was only clipped to about 1 in 10 sleepers, so not navigable by a 3'6" train yet.  I wonder when 3'6" operations will commence down the interstate?  Probably not for years given there's no intermodal yards or anything down there yet.

[curator49]

I don't see any reason (other than funding) that the Salisbury - Greenbank section could not commence construction at the same time as CRR2. It would possibly be then ready soon after CRR2 is completed (hopefully) in 2016.

It is mooted that trains on the Salisbury - Beaudesert corridor would eventually service stations on that line as an "all stops" and then run express to the city. I think they need one stop on the Beenleigh line section perhaps Yeerongpilly after its upgrade with the opening of CRR2 and have Gold Coast trains stop there so passengers can transfer to that service or alternatively other all stoppers into the city or Beenleigh.

I really think that the forecast the Gateway/Logan Motorway extension is primarily intended to cater for heavy road transports linking the new rail/road interchange yard at Bromelton to the Port of Brisbane and north-side destinations but the obvious use by private vehicles would also be a consideration. The Government through the Transport Dept have been trying to get trucks off a number of roads on the south side and onto the Gateway/Logan Motorways. For those trucks going to the Port of Brisbane, I don't know why they are not "persuaded" to use the dual gauge line linking Acacia Ridge to the Port of Brisbane as a continuation of their journey by rail from wherever.

Unfortunately, there does not seem to have been any further progress for extending the dual gauge line to Bromelton. Work just stopped   

I crossed over the line on the Beaudesrt - Boonah Road recently and there was no sign of anything at all being done. Of course there probably isn't any great haste to finish it until they start construction of the new rail yards at Bromelton. I believe at least one major rail/road logistics firm has purchased a sizable block of land for their new intermodal terminal and there possibly are others as well. There is to be a large industrial estate here as well which is going to mean lots of jobs in Beaudesert and surrounding arae which, in turn, means lots and lots of people some of whom will need transport into Brisbane. A fast rail trip would be ideal.

[mufreight]

SCT has apparently taken ownership of land for their intermodal depot at Bromelton and is now working through the process to prepare for construction, the provision of sidings will be the responsibility of both the Queensland Government and ARTC.
The completion of the dual gauge and the connections would be able to be carried out over a few months, possibly less time than it will take to construct the terminal itself.
Any suggestion of using the dual gauge for the provision of commuter rail services borders on absolute absurdity bearing in mind the money spent already on the line between Maitland and Brisbane to upgrade the line and provide clearances that will enable the operation of double stacked intermodal trains.
The logical and practical option is to construct a double track electrified NG line alongside the DG freight line for commuter operations, the alignment of the corridor would allow operation of conventional NG electric equipment at speeds of up to 160kph over most of its length.

[curator49]

The provision of a double track electrified suburban line parallel to the current standard (dual) gauge line is exactly what this report is all about. The dual gauge line, when complete, will be mainly freight only line for both standard gauge and the 3 ft 6 ins. The only passenger train on this track will be the XPT.

There is no way that the dual gauge line could support a suburban train service as well particularly once Bromelton is up and working.

[#Metro]

It is mooted that trains on the Salisbury - Beaudesert corridor would eventually service stations on that line as an "all stops" and then run express to the city. I think they need one stop on the Beenleigh line section perhaps Yeerongpilly after its upgrade with the opening of CRR2 and have Gold Coast trains stop there so passengers can transfer to that service or alternatively other all stoppers into the city or Beenleigh.

Services originating from that corridor IMHO should use the Cross River Rail tunnel.
The demand out there is going to be huge, it will be like another Gold Coast line IMHO. Another service terminating at Yeerongpilly or Corinda/Tennyson could cover the all stops section from Park Road (surface) to Yeerongpilly/Tennyson/Corinda.

[curator49]

Sorry, TramTrain I didn't make myself clear.

I meant that once the service off the Salisbury - Beaudesert corridor has stopped (at say Yeerongpilly) it would then continue express into the city. My thought was that some passengers may require to go to other destinations on the Beenleigh Line. I think it would be a disincentive to use the train if they had to go all the way into Roma Street only to have to catch a Beenleigh train back out again if they needed to go to any other station on that line for work. 

[#Metro]

No, no, we are on the same page I think. 

Um, people could just change at Yeerongpilly for the rest of the current Beenleigh line stations- Yeronga, Fairfield, Dutton Park.
CRR will go to Park Rd, so its only 3 stations.

[ButFli]

So um... why don't they electrify the dual gauge "freight line" while they're at it? Seems like a waste to have that extra track there and not have it available for maximum use. If it was up to me I'd dual-gauge one of the new lines as well.

[Golliwog]

Wasn't part of the reason for not electrifying something about wanting to double stack frieght trains? Although isn't the dual gauge electrified once it gets onto the Beenleigh line anyway?

[somebody]

Wasn't part of the reason for not electrifying something about wanting to double stack frieght trains? Although isn't the dual gauge electrified once it gets onto the Beenleigh line anyway?

Yes and yes.

However, if double stacking occurs (unlikely), you could get from Sydney to Bromelton and Acacia Ridge without touching the Beenleigh line.

[ButFli]

I assumed the answer would be double stacking. But seriously, by the time you pay to raise or widen every low bridge and tunnel between Brisbane and Sydney, the cost of pulling down a few kilometers of wire in Brisbane will be nothing.

[somebody]

I assumed the answer would be double stacking. But seriously, by the time you pay to raise or widen every low bridge and tunnel between Brisbane and Sydney, the cost of pulling down a few kilometers of wire in Brisbane will be nothing.

Not to mention needing to do something about the wires Newcastle-Sydney.  Maybe if inland rail goes ahead.

[colinw]

Desirable as it would be, I really cannot see double stacking occuring on the Brisbane to Sydney route any time soon.

First you have the 1.5KV DC overhead from Sydney to Newcastle.  Second, there are quite a few tunnels to deal with, in particular the border tunnel is rather long, and would be quite expensive to modify for double stacking.

Far more likely I think for double stacking to reach Brisbane via the proposed inland line, as any tunnels on that route could be built to double stacking clearances.  The "Southern Freight Rail Corridor" from Kagaru to Ebenezer via Woolooman / Washpool will include at least one long tunnel to get through the hills that separate the Logan River valley and the Fassifern valley in the Purga Creek area.

I would prefer to see the NG passenger operation kept completely separate to the DG freight line if possible, and that includes north of Acacia Ridge.  CRR should get the Gold Coast trains off the dual gauge, and IMHO the only section of DG line that should see regular 3'6" electric operation should be from Park Road inward.

[ozbob]

Yes, a separate dual track 3' 6" for commuter rail.  The dual gauge freight line will be needed for freight, both gauges. 

[curator49]

I took the opportunity to go to the information session about the proposed Salisbury - Beaudesert Rail Corridor held at the Acacia Ridge Community Centre on Thursday afternoon. Qld Transport staff were available from 3.00 pm until 6.00 pm with plenty of brochures, large maps, an engineering diagram book (somebody was wanting to know why the proposed line had to cross over the standard gauge at Kagaru) as well as a Powerpoint presentation.. I was there between 3.00 and 4.00 pm and had some good conversations with the QT people while they took notes.

I suppose there were about 20 interested people there when I was there. I didn't hear any serious negative comments mostly seemed to be in favour.

I would have liked to have heard what developed by 6.00 pm to see if any serious objectors turned up.

This first session was more about the general route, station locations and environmental issues. The next phase will have a public information session about mid-2011.

[#Metro]

Brisbane's suburbs of growth and decline

The outer Brisbane suburbs of Wakerley, Parkinson and Drewvale were Brisbane's fastest-growing suburbs between 1999 and 2009, figures obtained by brisbanetimes.com.au reveal.

The data, from Queensland Treasury, shows the eastern Brisbane suburb of Wakerley grew by 591 per cent in the 10-year period.

In raw numbers, Brisbane's fastest-growing suburbs are Parkinson and Drewvale.

Time to buid rail IMHO!!! That line to beaudesert...

[Jonno]

And a dedicated transit route along Mains Roads to Browns Plains

[#Metro]

And a dedicated transit route along Mains Roads to Browns Plains

Good idea- this can be done as a stop-gap measure for now.

[Golliwog]

Why stop-gap? Why would you get rid of it?

[colinw]

The two are complementary.

BUZ along Mains Road serves a different market (Sunnybank Hills & Calamvale) to the rail line. 

The rail line is far more direct for Algester, Parkinson, Hillcrest, Boronia Heights, etc.

[Golliwog]

The two are complementary.

BUZ along Mains Road serves a different market (Sunnybank Hills & Calamvale) to the rail line. 

The rail line is far more direct for Algester, Parkinson, Hillcrest, Boronia Heights, etc.

Yeah, thats what I was getting at.

[#Metro]

No, I meant as a relief measure while other options (railway line) are being built.
When the rail line is built, passenger numbers and therefore buses would likely drop. You could probably still have the bus lane, it just wont be that busy IMHO.

[Jonno]

The two are indeed complementary and needed that is why i used the term transit line (mode is then a secondary consideration) and should link to make a network

[bernied]

Has anyone considered creating an additional stop on the existing Brisbane to Sydney Service on the interstate line?

1.  Building a Station that is compatible with both Standard and Narrow Gauge Trains on the interstate line before the proposed branch line to Beausdesert.  The narrow gauge branch line can be built at a later stage when demand is sufficient.
2.  Have the Sydney bound existing XPT afternoon and the Brisbane bound existing XPT morning services stop here
3.  Extend the Existing Sydney to Casino service to Brisbane that would provide additional outbound service in the afternoon,  and inbound service in the morning

Infrastructure wise you are only looking at a single station plus carparking on the main line before the proposed branch line,  as well as an additional stations as required.

Services wise,  Translink could subsidies fares between Brisbane and the proposed station to Countrylink,  on both the existing service and the extended Casino Service,  so that the fares are still within the  normal translink price range.

[somebody]

I don't see much point in having the XPT serve it.  There was an E-Petition a while ago about getting a diesel SG train to run Greenbank-Roma St, but that is a terrible idea, really.  CityTrain is also an all electric outfit, and I think it should stay that way, which means if NG pax trains are to run through Acacia Ridge it needs to be wired.  It is also a single track line.  It would need to become dual track, I am sure.  Then there are issues with CBD capacity.