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Author Topic: High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) priority - discussion invited  (Read 2562 times)

Online ozbob

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High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) priority - discussion invited
« on: September 29, 2010, 07:13:02 AM »
High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) priority has been identified in the draft Connecting SEQ 2031 as one of the strategies.

A high occupancy vehicle is defined in Connecting SEQ 2031 as one that carries multiple passengers eg. bus, taxi. T2 and T3 lanes are examples of HOV infrastructure.

Is this a strategy to be pursued?   Are bus lanes better?  Is the answer a combination??  Will 'NOMRs'  (not on my road) yelp too much?  Will the government and agencies have the intestinal fortitude to drive it through?  Is it more hot air??

Will the temptation to allow the 'well to do' to access HOV priority lanes as HOTs (High occupancy tolls) lead to social stratification and further transport disadvantage and swamping of the HOVs anyway?

Many things to consider and discuss ...
« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 07:21:35 AM by ozbob »
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Offline #Metro

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Re: High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) priority - discussion invited
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2010, 07:29:03 AM »
HOV lanes
I think HOV is next to useless. The permanency of the lane is pretty poor, seems to change with the change of government!
During heavy load, a small number of motorists will violate the lane, which will then induce everyone to violate the lane which then completely cancels out any benefit of the lane at a time it is needed the most.

It is dreaming to think motorists will not cross a 2.5 inch white line during heavy congestion to take advantage of the HOV lane time benefits even though they might not be entitled to it. And what evidence is there in Brisbane that these things work anywhere. What are the mean travel time savings and is that enough to get people to use the HOV lane?

And another thing- are these HOV lanes going to be brand new lanes or are they going to come from the conversion of where bus lanes are?

Exclusive bus lanes are better IMHO.
Even ones that are exclusive only during peak hour and controlled by variable signs or lit road markers.

HOT lanes
These might work, but again, where is the location? If it is down, I don't know, Kelvin Grove road, you may as well resume that lane and put a tram line or superbus lane down it.

The toll is very good at keeping people out of the lane. Provided Buses and taxi and motorcycles could ride in the HOT lane for free, then it might work, but again I can't really see it having a huge impact in the overall scheme of things.
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Online ozbob

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Re: High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) priority - discussion invited
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2010, 08:09:23 AM »
Originally posted by tramtrain --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4527.msg35169#msg35169

Topic: Why bus lanes need low barriers such as road markers or a very low median kerb

==================================

Like this:


http://dc.streetsblog.org/contribute/


http://jcwinnie.biz/wordpress/?p=2795
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Offline Golliwog

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Re: High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) priority - discussion invited
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2010, 09:27:51 AM »
I don't think HOT lanes are the way to go. As you point out if people have the money then the benefit for buses and the like are gone as it will be treated as just another lane.

As for Bus lane vs. T2/T3, I don't think it matters too much. I would prefer bus lanes, but HOV lanes still provide a benefit to buses and at the same time, there are always some journeys that are going to need to be done by car (eg, tradies), just because the PT journey isn't there or is very inconvenient. In that example I would much prefer that the people doing then are car pooling instead of having as many cars as possible
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Offline #Metro

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Re: High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) priority - discussion invited
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2010, 09:42:22 AM »
Quote
I don't think HOT lanes are the way to go. As you point out if people have the money then the benefit for buses and the like are gone as it will be treated as just another lane.

I think HOT lanes will have limited application in Brisbane, but so long as 100% of the toll goes into providing a high frequency bus route along the same line, then I think equity concerns can be solved.
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somebody

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Re: High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) priority - discussion invited
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2010, 09:57:19 AM »
They're really only worth much if they are 24 hour, bus/taxi only and camera enforced.

Offline Jonno

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Re: High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) priority - discussion invited
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2010, 11:04:41 AM »
Use the same technology used by the tunnels and motorways to recognize number plates.  Buses and emergency vehicles are ok, cars not.

Offline #Metro

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Re: High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) priority - discussion invited
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2010, 09:57:44 PM »
Well after tonight's chaos, IMHO there needs to be some serious bus lanes- continuous, painted over the entire surface on all major roads and leading on to the busways.
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Offline Jonno

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Re: High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) priority - discussion invited
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2010, 06:15:35 PM »
How about starting with BUZ lanes for lanes where a BUZ Route exists which of course is used by all buses.  Bus lane whist not a Bus Lane!

Offline Golliwog

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Re: High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) priority - discussion invited
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2010, 08:23:02 PM »
I'm a bit wary of transit lanes as they are notoriously hard to enforce, however what would you opinion be to a lane for buses plus commercial vehicles. Commercial vehicles would entail trucks as well as tradesmen (ie: trips that can't be done via bus or train). Commercial vehicles would be easier to identify as trucks are trucks, and pretty much all other commercial vehicles have some form of company branding.
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Offline Jonno

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Re: High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) priority - discussion invited
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2010, 09:27:12 PM »
I don't like the idea mixing of buses and commerical vehicles as bus need total priority.  I suspect also if you give commerical vehicles acess to a faster lane (enforceable using number plate recognistion systems) then people start to register their cars as commercial vehicles just to use the lane.

The key contoiller of people choosing to use their car is car parking availability at the other end.  Allow ample short parking for commerical/trade vehicles (we also have to discourage tradies who are just travelling to a job site for the whole day, day in day out) and little to none for passenger cars.  Provide a frequent and cross-town PT service plus a connected active transport network and the mode switch will astound everyone.  This removes the single occupant passenger vehicle form the roads and allows our commerical traffic to operate in less congestion.

   

Offline Golliwog

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Re: High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) priority - discussion invited
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2010, 09:42:35 PM »
How exactly does one register their vehicle as a commercial vehicle? Don't you need an ABN? I wouldn't think you would need anything so high tech anyway, and that sort of thing would also allow company cars to use it as they would be most likely registered to the company. What I was proposing was just looking at the vehicle, does it say "John's Plumbing" on a sticker on the back of the ute/car. Something simple like that. Yes it would be possible to get around by making your own stickers but I feel most people aren't going to want to drive around with a stupid fake company sticker on their car all the time.
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Re: High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) priority - discussion invited
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2010, 07:28:12 AM »
How exactly does one register their vehicle as a commercial vehicle? Don't you need an ABN? I wouldn't think you would need anything so high tech anyway, and that sort of thing would also allow company cars to use it as they would be most likely registered to the company. What I was proposing was just looking at the vehicle, does it say "John's Plumbing" on a sticker on the back of the ute/car. Something simple like that. Yes it would be possible to get around by making your own stickers but I feel most people aren't going to want to drive around with a stupid fake company sticker on their car all the time.
An ABN is easy to obtain for an individual.

Offline WTN

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Re: High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) priority - discussion invited
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2010, 09:12:14 PM »
I'm personally against having commercial vehicles in a bus lane as well. A bus has to stop and start which would cause problems for commercial vehicles wanting to just go straight ahead. Having large trucks in the mix is also unsafe and pedestrian unfriendly. If trucks and other commercial vehicles want a lane of their own, then have it separate to a bus lane.
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Offline Golliwog

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Re: High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) priority - discussion invited
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2010, 01:11:58 AM »
In a perfect world you would have indented busbays, even if there is a buslane there. Simply to allow any express buses or buses that don't need to stop there to get past. I can't see it happening everywhere at once, but it is something that should be worked on.
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somebody

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Re: High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) priority - discussion invited
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2010, 12:18:22 PM »
In a perfect world you would have indented busbays, even if there is a buslane there. Simply to allow any express buses or buses that don't need to stop there to get past. I can't see it happening everywhere at once, but it is something that should be worked on.
I a perfect world, a bus would be allowed to push cars out of the way whenever it felt like it.  I think this used to be the rule in NSW.  It just seems weird to me having buses waiting for gaps in traffic to the degree they do in Brisbane.

Offline Golliwog

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Re: High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) priority - discussion invited
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2010, 12:31:19 PM »
I don't get why the bus drivers let them get away with it! I always stop or slow to let a bus out in front of me, yet often I'll be on a bus and you'll sit there wait for a gap in traffic because no one follows the law about giving way to merging buses.
There is no silver bullet… but there is silver buckshot.
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somebody

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Re: High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) priority - discussion invited
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2010, 12:36:02 PM »
I don't get why the bus drivers let them get away with it! I always stop or slow to let a bus out in front of me, yet often I'll be on a bus and you'll sit there wait for a gap in traffic because no one follows the law about giving way to merging buses.
Perhaps a public education campaign as well as bus driver training is the answer.

But the first thing they need to do is change the law so that it applies at all times, not just when pulling away from a curb.

 

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