Cleveland line

[#Metro]

I'm confused.

They need to write another plan? Isn't duplication mentioned in another plan, or were they talking a business case? Or is the business case different from the "strategy"? What is the strategy anyway?

Maybe council should put some money on the table in exchange for all day express services and rezone around stations for TOD to recover the cost.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/DebFrecklington/status/1039305402591010817

[tazzer9]

While I believe that full duplication is needed, we could half arse it in the mean time and add a second platform at ormiston and birkdale.  It would be slightly cheaper but deliver some benefits

[Cazza]

That's what Governments have been saying for years and look where it's gotten us...

Do it right the first time and you don't have to touch it again. More efficient, cheaper cost.

[BrizCommuter]

The 10tph am peak service allocation for the Cleveland Line in 2026 post CRR is not achievable with the current infrastructure. Without action soon, the proposed service improvements will not happen. CRR Fail is looking highly likely!

[ozbob]

Redland City Bulletin --> Back on Track call for duplication of Cleveland line amid complaints over express trains

A LOBBY group is ramping up its campaign for duplication of the Cleveland railway line, but the state government's $5.4 billion investment in the Cross River Rail project means major reform is at least five years away.

Back on Track spokesman Robert Dow said because the line was a single track between Cleveland and Manly, Queensland Rail were forced to skip some stations during busy periods.

He said some services were run express through Coorparoo and Norman Park to minimise or prevent delays to the entire line, specifically those travelling to the Gold Coast and Beenleigh through Park Road and Central stations.

Single track lines like Cleveland have inherent difficulties because trains must wait for clearance to safely pass another train.

Mr Dow said express trains caused major headaches for students and workers who had to wait about 30 minutes for the next service during busy periods.

"I have seen them slip two trains in a row past Norman Park and Coorparoo stations" he said.

"With the single line between Manly and Cleveland, it is just not possible to always deliver a reliable railway service.

"We are now approaching 2020 and it is very anachronistic to have a single line on a suburban railway system.

"We would like to see more people on public transport and one way of doing that is keeping services frequent, reliable, accessible and affordable."

Transport Minister Mark Bailey said the state government's major priority was the $5.4 billion Cross River Rail project.

He said they would need to determine how the new network functioned before committing to major reform, meaning changes to the Cleveland line would not be considered until after the project was completed in 2024.

"There's no doubt that duplication will be needed at some point and my department is in the process of identifying land to be protected for future Cleveland line upgrades," he said.

"However, no business case or detailed planning has been done to assess that proposal in more detail so there are no indicative costs or timelines for it."

Mr Bailey said the Cross River Rail project would double inner city rail capacity with an underground line, allowing trains to run more often.

Mr Dow said Queensland Rail and the state government should consider a stopgap solution while putting plans in place for a second line at Cleveland.

"As a precursor, perhaps they could do some additional passing works to help get the trains on time...and then move to a double track."

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1187562032498765824

[Cleveland Line]

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1187562032498765824

But based on the statement from Bailey, they will just wait for CRR to start operation and see Cleveland Line fail before they even then look at it....

The 10tph am peak service allocation for the Cleveland Line in 2026 post CRR is not achievable with the current infrastructure. Without action soon, the proposed service improvements will not happen. CRR Fail is looking highly likely!

This was from over a year ago! Surely they can see that already!

It is so sad that delivery of major piece of rail infrastructure has actually become a negative and handbrake on substantially improving the network, rather than the catalyst for massive change!

[ozbob]

I have been invited to a meeting with Mayor Williams early December Cleveland Line, on the back of this article.

Clearly it is time to get serious with upgrades.  Queensland Rail are frustrated as well with the situation.

I will do what I can.   

[Gazza]

What a lame excuse. Duplication has no bearing on CRR, they can start it now and get it ready, like they are doing with the Gold Coast infill stations.

[Cleveland Line]

I have been invited to a meeting with Mayor Williams early December Cleveland Line, on the back of this article.

Clearly it is time to get serious with upgrades.  Queensland Rail are frustrated as well with the situation.

I will do what I can.   

I've tried with local MP for Lytton and just get the usual CRR gumph and (prior to July timetable) working hard to restore services. Nothing about her priorities for local area, just the government talking points.

What a lame excuse. Duplication has no bearing on CRR, they can start it now and get it ready, like they are doing with the Gold Coast infill stations.

Exactly. If GC can get infill stations why can't other infrastructure constraints be addressed.

[verbatim9]

I have been invited to a meeting with Mayor Williams early December Cleveland Line, on the back of this article.

Clearly it is time to get serious with upgrades.  Queensland Rail are frustrated as well with the situation.

I will do what I can.   

I've tried with local MP for Lytton and just get the usual CRR gumph and (prior to July timetable) working hard to restore services. Nothing about her priorities for local area, just the government talking points.

What a lame excuse. Duplication has no bearing on CRR, they can start it now and get it ready, like they are doing with the Gold Coast infill stations.

Exactly. If GC can get infill stations why can't other infrastructure constraints be addressed.

I have never been in favour for all the infill stations bar one,  Hope Island.  The Cleveland line would of been a good contender for duplication.

It's all political, Labor just wants more votes on the Northern end of the coast and Southern Brisbane. It's nothing to do with vital infrastructure and doing right for the community  Hence all this expenditure on the M1 and Gold coast line.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

6th November 2019

Cleveland line commuters put on the back burner ...

RAIL Back on Track wishes to draw attention to the state of the Cleveland line, and the continued brush off from authorities about its state.
The Cleveland line remains the longest stretch of single track rail line in Brisbane.

Between Manly and Cleveland trains must take turns to traverse the single track sections. This causes constant delays and limits the number of trains that can be run.

In peak hour, half of all trains end their journey at Manly, there is simply not enough capacity to run them all the way through to Cleveland.

Robert Dow RAIL Back On Track Spokesman said:

"On one hand, we have the Government going out to consultation and starting construction early for three new stations on the Gold Coast so they are ready for Cross River Rail in 2024"

"But it beggars belief that the Government won't do the same courtesy for Cleveland line commuters, and start consulting, planning and constructing upgrades for their line, to be ready by 2024 when Cross River Rail opens."

The "suck it and see" approach promoted by the authorities is just wasting time, and could result in a fix being at least a decade away.

Minister Bailey was reported (1) as stating recently that  " they need to determine how the new network functioned before committing to major reform, meaning changes to the Cleveland line would not be considered until after the project was completed in 2024."

This is just delaying spin. The design of Cross River Rail is locked in at this point, and Cleveland line trains will not run through it anyway, so it should be entirely possible to do the computer modelling required to plan improvements now.

We don't care who does it, Cleveland line commuters don't want blame games, we all want it fixed by 2024.

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org


Reference:

1. Back on Track call for duplication of Cleveland line amid complaints over express trains
https://www.redlandcitybulletin.com.au/story/6453209/lobby-group-calls-for-end-to-cleveland-rail-chaos/?cs=213

Redland City Bulletin --> Back on Track call for duplication of Cleveland line amid complaints over express trains

A LOBBY group is ramping up its campaign for duplication of the Cleveland railway line, but the state government's $5.4 billion investment in the Cross River Rail project means major reform is at least five years away.

Back on Track spokesman Robert Dow said because the line was a single track between Cleveland and Manly, Queensland Rail were forced to skip some stations during busy periods.

He said some services were run express through Coorparoo and Norman Park to minimise or prevent delays to the entire line, specifically those travelling to the Gold Coast and Beenleigh through Park Road and Central stations.

Single track lines like Cleveland have inherent difficulties because trains must wait for clearance to safely pass another train.

Mr Dow said express trains caused major headaches for students and workers who had to wait about 30 minutes for the next service during busy periods.

"I have seen them slip two trains in a row past Norman Park and Coorparoo stations" he said.

"With the single line between Manly and Cleveland, it is just not possible to always deliver a reliable railway service.

"We are now approaching 2020 and it is very anachronistic to have a single line on a suburban railway system.

"We would like to see more people on public transport and one way of doing that is keeping services frequent, reliable, accessible and affordable."

Transport Minister Mark Bailey said the state government's major priority was the $5.4 billion Cross River Rail project.

He said they would need to determine how the new network functioned before committing to major reform, meaning changes to the Cleveland line would not be considered until after the project was completed in 2024.

"There's no doubt that duplication will be needed at some point and my department is in the process of identifying land to be protected for future Cleveland line upgrades," he said.

"However, no business case or detailed planning has been done to assess that proposal in more detail so there are no indicative costs or timelines for it."

Mr Bailey said the Cross River Rail project would double inner city rail capacity with an underground line, allowing trains to run more often.

Mr Dow said Queensland Rail and the state government should consider a stopgap solution while putting plans in place for a second line at Cleveland.

"As a precursor, perhaps they could do some additional passing works to help get the trains on time...and then move to a double track."

[ozbob]

Facebook ...

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1191736059979321348

[Stillwater]

Is seems to have become Minister Bailey's stock standard answer to planning for any other rail network upgrade/improvement other than CRR -- everything depends on CRR, so it should be built first before we look at anything else. 

In respect of the financing, this is true.  Because CRR is sucking up all the available construction dollars, very little is left over for anything else, including Cleveland, SCL Upgrade etc.  While a lack of dollars is at the heart of the problem, Mr Bailey has morphed this, erroneously, into being an operational matter -- CRR first, everything else waits. Unless, of course, the feds come riding over the horizon with saddlebags full of cash as part of a City Deal or Olympic Games bid package.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

6th November 2019

Cleveland line commuters put on the back burner ...

RAIL Back on Track wishes to draw attention to the state of the Cleveland line, and the continued brush off from authorities about its state.
The Cleveland line remains the longest stretch of single track rail line in Brisbane.

Between Manly and Cleveland trains must take turns to traverse the single track sections. This causes constant delays and limits the number of trains that can be run.

In peak hour, half of all trains end their journey at Manly, there is simply not enough capacity to run them all the way through to Cleveland.

Robert Dow RAIL Back On Track Spokesman said:

"On one hand, we have the Government going out to consultation and starting construction early for three new stations on the Gold Coast so they are ready for Cross River Rail in 2024"

"But it beggars belief that the Government won't do the same courtesy for Cleveland line commuters, and start consulting, planning and constructing upgrades for their line, to be ready by 2024 when Cross River Rail opens."

The "suck it and see" approach promoted by the authorities is just wasting time, and could result in a fix being at least a decade away.

Minister Bailey was reported (1) as stating recently that  " they need to determine how the new network functioned before committing to major reform, meaning changes to the Cleveland line would not be considered until after the project was completed in 2024."

This is just delaying spin. The design of Cross River Rail is locked in at this point, and Cleveland line trains will not run through it anyway, so it should be entirely possible to do the computer modelling required to plan improvements now.

We don't care who does it, Cleveland line commuters don't want blame games, we all want it fixed by 2024.

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org


Reference:

1. Back on Track call for duplication of Cleveland line amid complaints over express trains
https://www.redlandcitybulletin.com.au/story/6453209/lobby-group-calls-for-end-to-cleveland-rail-chaos/?cs=213

Redland City Bulletin --> Back on Track call for duplication of Cleveland line amid complaints over express trains

A LOBBY group is ramping up its campaign for duplication of the Cleveland railway line, but the state government's $5.4 billion investment in the Cross River Rail project means major reform is at least five years away.

Back on Track spokesman Robert Dow said because the line was a single track between Cleveland and Manly, Queensland Rail were forced to skip some stations during busy periods.

He said some services were run express through Coorparoo and Norman Park to minimise or prevent delays to the entire line, specifically those travelling to the Gold Coast and Beenleigh through Park Road and Central stations.

Single track lines like Cleveland have inherent difficulties because trains must wait for clearance to safely pass another train.

Mr Dow said express trains caused major headaches for students and workers who had to wait about 30 minutes for the next service during busy periods.

"I have seen them slip two trains in a row past Norman Park and Coorparoo stations" he said.

"With the single line between Manly and Cleveland, it is just not possible to always deliver a reliable railway service.

"We are now approaching 2020 and it is very anachronistic to have a single line on a suburban railway system.

"We would like to see more people on public transport and one way of doing that is keeping services frequent, reliable, accessible and affordable."

Transport Minister Mark Bailey said the state government's major priority was the $5.4 billion Cross River Rail project.

He said they would need to determine how the new network functioned before committing to major reform, meaning changes to the Cleveland line would not be considered until after the project was completed in 2024.

"There's no doubt that duplication will be needed at some point and my department is in the process of identifying land to be protected for future Cleveland line upgrades," he said.

"However, no business case or detailed planning has been done to assess that proposal in more detail so there are no indicative costs or timelines for it."

Mr Bailey said the Cross River Rail project would double inner city rail capacity with an underground line, allowing trains to run more often.

Mr Dow said Queensland Rail and the state government should consider a stopgap solution while putting plans in place for a second line at Cleveland.

"As a precursor, perhaps they could do some additional passing works to help get the trains on time...and then move to a double track."

[ozbob]

Facebook ...

[ozbob]

^ very strong response to this Cleveland line post.

Resonating strongly out in the Redlands ...

[#Metro]

Fast rail to Cleveland and Victoria point?

#RailFever

[BrizCommuter]

Based on the research for this post - https://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2019/11/check-mate-cross-river-rails-bs-ometer.html - CRR are now claiming am peak inbound 5.5mins frequency/11tph from Manly to Buranda, and 15mins frequency/4tph (maybe 5tph) from Cleveland. This would obviously require an additional platform at Manly to increase the turnbacks from 4tph to 7tph. Are there any plans for this? Answers on a postcard to...   Based on the information on CRR's website, it would also mean that all peak services would be all stations from Manly to Buranda.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Manly has had an extra platform in development for over a decade now. plans were done and was put in the Treasury axed project bin.

[achiruel]

^ just goes to show the idiocy of Treasury in this state (or maybe the Ministry). Scrap small incremental projects in favour of giant ones like CRR, only to find that CRR can't live up to its potential because the small stuff wasn't done.

[ozbob]

^ just goes to show the idiocy of Treasury in this state (or maybe the Ministry). Scrap small incremental projects in favour of giant ones like CRR, only to find that CRR can't live up to its potential because the small stuff wasn't done.

Well put!  It is getting to  be rather diabolical I am afraid ...

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1192162635451490304

[ozbob]

Manly has had an extra platform in development for over a decade now. plans were done and was put in the Treasury axed project bin.

Couriermail Quest September 10, 2018  --> 'Misery line' upgrades on drawing board but timing is unclear

THE State Government has responded to commuter concerns about unreliable services and lack of infrastructure on the Cleveland line - saying there's one very big, very expensive obstacle preventing a quick fix.

THERE might be light at the end of the tunnel for commuters on the Cleveland rail line — but it could just be a train.

And it looks like it might be a very long tunnel.

Commuters on what has been dubbed the "misery line" have complained long and loud about unreliable services and a lack of infrastructure forcing many of them to opt for buses and private vehicles.

Some have even reportedly begun looking for jobs closer to home so they can avoid the commute to the city on what has been called "Brisbane's worst rail line".

The single rail line from Cleveland to Manly and lack of a third platform at Manly have been highlighted as major concerns and Transport and Main Roads has promised it is looking at the situation.

But it's making no promises on how long that will take.

In a statement to the Wynnum Herald, a TMR spokesperon said Cross River Rail was the Queensland Government's highest infrastructure priority because it would unlock the inner city transport bottleneck and enables delivery of other rail network growth projects, including the Cleveland line.

"It will allow more trains to run more often and will integrate with new busways and new roads to provide a turn-up-and-go transport system for the whole of southeast Queensland," the spokesman said.

"TMR is also preparing a Rail Network Strategy, which will set the plan to implement the broader network-wide benefits of Cross River Rail, including the timing for duplication of the Cleveland rail line.

"Planning is underway to identify corridor requirements to enable TMR to protect the Manly to Cleveland corridor for future duplication.

"This will ensure future development does not impede the corridor.

"That strategy will consider future service plans and infrastructure investments in the rail network over a 10 to 30 year horizon, including timing for the duplication of the Cleveland Rail Line and considerations such as a third platform at Manly."

The news came as Redland City Council revealed it would make upgrading of the Celeveland rail line a priority in its new transport strategy.

[#Metro]

In a statement to the Wynnum Herald, a TMR spokesperon said Cross River Rail was the Queensland Government's highest infrastructure priority because it would unlock the inner city transport bottleneck and enables delivery of other rail network growth projects, including the Cleveland line.

Look, the government of the day is simply using any rail-related issue as an advertisement for Cross River Rail.

They are putting this payload into every rail-related media release.

Blocked toilet at the station? Guess what, Cross River Rail, buses not going to train stations, did you know about Cross River Rail...,

Parking Issues? Cross River Rail...

At least the Minister for Instagram must be happy


On another note, I don't agree with the argument put forward. All that is happening is that extra stations will be tacked on to the end of the

services that are already there. So how does that need extra capacity - which is already coming?

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/barnesshane713/status/1192033460111589376

Cross River Rail will help boost grate resilience ! 

[ozbob]

Facebook ...

2147  2282 2310 2491 People reached  395 409 412 439 Engagements ..  strong response   

[ozbob]

Redland City Bulletin --> Cleveland rail line duplication should be a high priority


Oodgeroo MP Mark Robinson met with opposition transport spokesman Steve Minnikin at Cleveland this week to discuss the duplication of the line.

DUPLICATION of the Cleveland railway line should be completed as soon as possible, Oodgeroo MP Mark Robinson says.

Mr Robinson met with opposition transport spokesman Steve Minnikin at Cleveland Station this week to discuss the duplication issue and a plan to ease the pain for commuters.

Relief could be years away, though, with the state government's $5.4 billion commitment to the Cross River Rail taking priority.

Mr Minnikin said that Redlands commuters were missing out, and agreed that the Cleveland duplication should be high on the reform list.

"The people of the Redlands all pay their taxes. They're getting a sub-standard rail line," he said.

"The simple fact is that this line needs to be duplicated. It's not fair on the people of the people of the bayside area.

"If you want to get the best out of the passenger network in greater Brisbane, you have got to make sure that all lines are duplicated."

The Cleveland line is the only suburban track in Brisbane not to be duplicated to its last stop. Six stations after Manly - Lota, Thornside, Birkdale, Wellington Point, Ormiston and Cleveland - are on a single track.

Adding to the pain for commuters is continued rise in rail fares, and Mr Minnikin said should the LNP win power at the next election, his party would strive to make the network reliable and affordable.

"There is a culture of people who have been turned off using public transport," he said.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1192821502523125764

[Cleveland Line]

Redland City Bulletin --> Cleveland rail line duplication should be a high priority


Oodgeroo MP Mark Robinson met with opposition transport spokesman Steve Minnikin at Cleveland this week to discuss the duplication of the line.

DUPLICATION of the Cleveland railway line should be completed as soon as possible, Oodgeroo MP Mark Robinson says.

Mr Robinson met with opposition transport spokesman Steve Minnikin at Cleveland Station this week to discuss the duplication issue and a plan to ease the pain for commuters.

Relief could be years away, though, with the state government's $5.4 billion commitment to the Cross River Rail taking priority.

Mr Minnikin said that Redlands commuters were missing out, and agreed that the Cleveland duplication should be high on the reform list.

"The people of the Redlands all pay their taxes. They're getting a sub-standard rail line," he said.

"The simple fact is that this line needs to be duplicated. It's not fair on the people of the people of the bayside area.

"If you want to get the best out of the passenger network in greater Brisbane, you have got to make sure that all lines are duplicated."

The Cleveland line is the only suburban track in Brisbane not to be duplicated to its last stop. Six stations after Manly - Lota, Thornside, Birkdale, Wellington Point, Ormiston and Cleveland - are on a single track.

Adding to the pain for commuters is continued rise in rail fares, and Mr Minnikin said should the LNP win power at the next election, his party would strive to make the network reliable and affordable.

"There is a culture of people who have been turned off using public transport," he said.

Should they win the election they would strive to make network affordable and reliable....wow, what a policy!...

[SurfRail]

"Strive" is a pretty strong commitment (for a politician).

[verbatim9]

Public transport needs to be frequent, reliable & affordable. The Redlands rail commuters are getting a raw deal with this current Labor Government. Rail advocates agree. The Sunshine Coast & Cleveland lines need to be duplicated. #qldpol #railfail

https://twitter.com/SteveMinnikinMP/status/1193160229002702849

[Stillwater]

Yep, they are really going to look into that policy (known among media types as the 'mirror response').

[ozbob]

Couriermail Quest --> Upgrades to the Cleveland rail line take a back seat


Train Back On Track spokesman Robert Dow says upgrades to the Cleveland rail line could be a decade away. PICTURE: APP/Josh Woning

ONE of the biggest public transport transformations in south east Queensland history will take place over the coming decade but the Cleveland line does not seem to be a part of it.

The line — longest stretch of single-track rail line in Brisbane which services about 13,032 boardings per weekday — remains at the bottom of the transport minster's to-do list while the $5.4 billion state funded Cross River Rail surges ahead.

Transport Minister Mark Bailey said the project's new underground line would double inner city rail capacity in 2024.

He said the line would also integrate with new busways to support a 'turn-up-and-go' transport system for the region and, following the introduction of 75 New Generation rolling stock already in service, include the development of a new European Train Control System and $371 million Smart Ticketing initiative to give commuters more options for how to pay for journeys.

"These projects are our major priorities for public transport in the region," Mr Bailey said.

"We need Cross River Rail up and running first because that will determine how the rest of the transport network flows and functions, offering a genuine opportunity for network reform and expansion.

"That reform includes looking at what lines can be duplicated or extended in the future, including the Cleveland line."

Mr Bailey said while there was "no doubt" that duplication would be needed in the future, no detailed work had been done on the project.

"My department is in the process of identifying land to be protected for future Cleveland line upgrades," Mr Bailey said.

"However, no business case or detailed planning has been done to assess that proposal in more detail so there are no indicative costs or timelines for it."

It is a delay that Rail Back on Track spokesman Robert Dow said was unacceptable, saying the approach could mean improvements to the Cleveland line could be a decade away.

"The design of Cross River Rail is locked in at this point, and Cleveland line trains will not run through it anyway, so it should be entirely possible to do the computer modelling required to plan improvements now," Mr Dow said.

He said trains between Manly and Cleveland that still had to traverse single track sections caused delays and limited the number of trains that could be run.

"In peak hour, half of all trains end their journey at Manly, there is simply not enough capacity to run them all the way through to Cleveland," Mr Dow said.

"On one hand, we have the government going out to consultation and starting construction early for three new stations on the Gold Coast so they are ready for Cross River Rail in 2024.

"But it beggars belief that the government won't do the same courtesy for Cleveland line commuters, and start consulting, planning and constructing upgrades for their line, to be ready by 2024 when Cross River Rail opens."

[#Metro]

^^ typical response from TMR featuring the Cross River Rail payload.

The subject is Cleveland Line duplicating, but somehow it drifts into CRR.

[kram0]

Bailey will go down as the worst transport minister in history. He has no clue at all and worst of all, believes his own Sh^t that comes from his mouth.

[Gazza]

Who Would win? Mark Bailey or Rachel Nolan?

[SurfRail]

Bailey, hands down.

Nolan at least came along to that forum we ran in RC1.