Cleveland line

[Arnz]

With the exception of the current premier.  Transport Ministers since Nolan has outdone each other in the who's worse department.  Anna P and to some extent Emerson at least addressed minor issues, even if Emerson's ideas such as trams under the Brisbane River and Segways are facepalm worthy.

[BrizCommuter]

^^ typical response from TMR featuring the Cross River Rail payload.

The subject is Cleveland Line duplicating, but somehow it drifts into CRR.

The post CRR am peak service claims are virtually impossible without at least a third platform at Manly. CRR / Bailey need to be asked how will the proposed 11tph in the am peak be possible with no new infrastructure?

[#Metro]

The post CRR am peak service claims are virtually impossible without at least a third platform at Manly. CRR / Bailey need to be asked how will the proposed 11tph in the am peak be possible with no new infrastructure?

Department of Transport and Social Media (TSM) model response:

Yes, we acknowledge that trains on the Cleveland line are sometimes delayed. The government has bought a mirror in which we are looking into for possible plans that the Federal Government will have to pay for to go ahead. Hey! Did you know about Cross River Rail? Cross River Rail Cross River Rail Cross River Rail WORLD CLASS Cross River Rail Cross River Rail WORLD CLASS Cross River Rail Cross River Rail.

Thank you for your enquiry.

[ozbob]

Queensland Rail have been indicating for around 10 years that the third platform at Manly is needed.

I can only assume that TMR has resisted such a necessary step.

Look at the fiasco involving the UP Sub Corinda to Darra East  - failure to spark, failure to build the additional platform at Oxley.

It is going to cost a lot to have to come back and do that.

Until there is a proper Public Transport Authority with a heavy rail division, separate from TMR,  mediocrity is manifest !!

[BrizCommuter]

I will be writing a post which will act as a score card for the likelihood of post CRR am peak service claims being met. At the moment it isn't looking good.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Queensland Rail have been indicating for around 10 years that the third platform at Manly is needed.

I can only assume that TMR has resisted such a necessary step.

Look at the fiasco involving the UP Sub Corinda to Darra East  - failure to spark, failure to build the additional platform at Oxley.

It is going to cost a lot to have to come back and do that.

Until there is a proper Public Transport Authority with a heavy rail division, separate from TMR,  mediocrity is manifest !!

Try and find any documents referencing translink and qr about the Manly 3rd platform and suddenly there's nothing on the internet. Funny how that always happens with a change of government.

[timh]

Queensland Rail have been indicating for around 10 years that the third platform at Manly is needed.

I can only assume that TMR has resisted such a necessary step.

Look at the fiasco involving the UP Sub Corinda to Darra East  - failure to spark, failure to build the additional platform at Oxley.

It is going to cost a lot to have to come back and do that.

Until there is a proper Public Transport Authority with a heavy rail division, separate from TMR,  mediocrity is manifest !!

Try and find any documents referencing translink and qr about the Manly 3rd platform and suddenly there's nothing on the internet. Funny how that always happens with a change of government.

Manly wouldn't need a third platform if they'd just duplicate to Cleveland like they really should.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[HappyTrainGuy]

Depends how you want to run the network eg express/peak starters.

[#Metro]

So, how about a BCC rocket bus from Cleveland-Manly all stops and then express to the CBD?

[achiruel]

So, how about a BCC rocket bus from Cleveland-Manly all stops and then express to the CBD?

275 which is reasonably direct via Finucane Rd & OCR takes 1:20 to 1:26, I'd hate to think how long your proposed route would take!

[#Metro]

</satire>

[ozbob]

Manly ..

Photographs R Dow 21st December 2019

[Otto]

I remember when I was a young boy, Manly Station had a Turntable located close to the Lota end of the current stabling yard. I used to watch the station staff operating the levers in the signal box. Was fascinated by all the wires and rods that came out from under the platform. I assume the wires operated the semaphore signals and the rods operated the points.

[SurfRail]

If it was up to me I'd level the whole block, relocate the primary school school (temporarily or permanently) and realign the railway to provide straight platforms, and move the stabling to Thorneside.  We have to get away from this thinking that the railway alignment can never ever change, just because.  Roads get realigned and improved all the live long day.

[STB]

If it was up to me I'd level the whole block, relocate the primary school school (temporarily or permanently) and realign the railway to provide straight platforms, and move the stabling to Thorneside.  We have to get away from this thinking that the railway alignment can never ever change, just because.  Roads get realigned and improved all the live long day.

Years ago, I remember Thorneside being mentioned internally within the Transport Department/QR as a potential stabling location, however, it was knocked on the head due to the sewage treatment plant next door to Thorneside station.

[SurfRail]

^ There would have to be a way to do it, there's plenty of room around there.

You could even just expand the stabling capacity in and around the approach to Cleveland.  Just rip up the car park off Shore St and find somewhere else to put about 100 car parks.

[ozbob]

Couriermail Quest --> Raised platform means safety and faster train times

The platform at a busy train station east of Brisbane will be raised for easier access this weekend but there is another benefit to the project that should help its notoriously late trains finally run on time.

TRAINS in the Redlands could run closer to schedule following the raising of the platform at Ormiston Station.

The platform will be raised this weekend, which LNP Member for Oodgeroo Mark Robinson said was a win for the elderly and disabled.

"At last the disabled, the elderly, parents with prams and small children and the able bodied will all be able to safely exit and enter trains without having to navigate a hazardous gap," Dr Robinson said.

Advocacy group Rail Back on Track spokesman Robert Dow said improved safety and access for travellers was "terrific" but also pointed out another positive.

"One of the problems with the Cleveland line is reliability at peak hour," Dr Robinson said.

"Lower level platforms mean trains have prolonged dwell times (as people board and disembark from the train).

"If you can get off at a level height it makes it safer.

"(Raising the platform) means it's quicker and will help to keep the train on time."

However both Mr Dow and Dr Robinson agreed there was one major improvement due when it came to the Redlands' rail network — the duplication of the Cleveland line.

"Our line between Manly and Cleveland needs to be duplicated and there needs to be a restoration of the services lost under Labor's rail fail," Dr Robinson said.

Dr Robinson said more carparking and better access to toilet facilities were also needed at several stops across the network.

The Ormiston Station platform will be temporarily be closed tomorrow and Sunday from 6am to 6pm so the works can take place.

Station amenities and ticketing equipment will be unavailable to customers during this time.

[ozbob]

DTMR RTI Disclosure log
https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/About-us/Right-to-Information/Disclosure-log.aspx

10 February 2020

RTI-955   A copy of the Park Road to Cleveland Rail Upgrade Planning Project (PDF, 65.43 MB), Stage 1 Duplication – Technical Assessment Report (July 2017).

RAIL Back On Track
Application finalised

[BrizCommuter]

Interesting read. Is there any sign of this actually happening though? The Cross River Rail Fail clock is ticking!

[timh]

Interesting read. Is there any sign of this actually happening though? The Cross River Rail Fail clock is ticking!

The current state gov line is that no other Rail upgrades are happening until after Cross River rail. This does seem like a relatively easy/cheap upgrade to do but there's no business case or anything like that developed. I think it should be made a high priority considering how easy it would be.

Similar to Doomben line duplication. Would be very easy to do, but much like Cleveland line, there's no talk of actually doing it

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[ozbob]

Redlands Shire Council is working on it.  I had a meeting with the Mayor Williams last year. 

Cross River Rail is not going to deliver the expected benefits unless there are a number of network improvements, which the Cleveland line is only but one.

With the COVID-19 situation it is unlikely that anything will be done though, even Kuraby to Beenleigh improvements.

Transport is going to breakdown, particularly, in all the major capitals.  And still Albo is bleating on about High Speed rail down the East Coast.

We are fuked folks   

[BrizCommuter]

Yes, sadly COVID gives authorities the excuse to do the "do nothing" short sighted option. CRR is likely to end up being a white elephant unless there is an increase in associated network infrastructure.

[achiruel]

Shouldn't the government be throwing money at stuff like this now to stimulate the economy where the private sector is unable to? Not to mention the fact that borrowing money is close enough to free right now.

[timh]

Shouldn't the government be throwing money at stuff like this now to stimulate the economy where the private sector is unable to? Not to mention the fact that borrowing money is close enough to free right now.

My thoughts exactly yes. However this kind of economics I believe is not popular with the economically right leaning parties. QLD with a Labor government may be more likely to do something like this (we're seeing the fast tracking of "shovel ready" projects) but it may not be popular.

My personal opinion though is yes infrastructure construction as economically stimulus is what we should be doing

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[James]

Shouldn't the government be throwing money at stuff like this now to stimulate the economy where the private sector is unable to? Not to mention the fact that borrowing money is close enough to free right now.

The problem is you have to have a design to build & construction companies to build the infrastructure in order to actually get the railway line built. With CRR, the multiple M1 upgrades about to start and other upgrades coming (Beerburrum to Landsborough) PLUS whatever is going on interstate, it will be difficult to get much more off the ground in the next 12 months.

Even if you kicked off a design team today with a remit to get works started ASAP, you'd still have 6-12 months before shovels would be going into the ground.

It should definitely be put in the pipeline though, the financial impacts from the lockdown are likely to have a long tail. Starting construction in 2022 should be enough.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

Time for the Cleveland line to be sorted ...

15th May 2021

When Cross River Rail (CRR) is commissioned the Cleveland line will be important to maintain train service frequency through South Bank and South Brisbane.  Beenleigh and Gold Coast line trains will be going via CRR. But there is a major issue with the Cleveland line, it is the lack of track capacity between Manly and Cleveland, it is a single line. There is a need for at least some partial duplication and additional train turnback facilities at either Manly or Lota stations. The Cleveland line is unreliable and fails to meet on-time running targets, particularly during peak periods (see OTR graph below). Problems on the Cleveland line flow on and impact the rest of the Citytrain network as well.

In July 2017 TMR carried out the "Park Road to Cleveland Rail Upgrade Planning Project State 1 Duplication - Technical Assessment Report" a copy of which we obtained by RTI application. ( Copy available https://backontrack.org/docs/rti/cleveland/RTI995.pdf ). This report should be used to advance a business case to Infrastructure Australia as a matter of priority.  In line with the technical assessment the first section that could be duplicated would be Wellington Point - Birkdale and construct a third platform at Lota. This would significantly improve train service capacity and reliability.

SEQ rail cannot stand still.  The Cleveland line needs urgent upgrades so that it can deliver frequent reliable train services by 2025, otherwise CRR is looking very much like a stranded investment.

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org


Cleveland line on-time running.

Note during the COVID-19 restrictions OTR improved, as soon as significant number of passengers returned OTR collapsed.



All lines > https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=14258.msg246590#msg246590

[ozbob]

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1393278308045910021

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1393700855086411776

[ozbob]

Flashback ....   

From the Wynnum Herald 22nd September 2010 page 4

Express linked to Manly Line Upgrade: Cleveland Manly duplication tipped

Express linked to Manly LINE UPGRADE: CLEVELAND MANLY DUPLICATION TIPPED
BIANCA SULLIVAN

BAYSIDERS are expected to get a slice of the $123 billion Connecting SE Q 2031 project. While the plan is Premier Anna Bligh's 20-year vision and a promise of the upcoming state election, the Cleveland railway line is earmarked for a line duplication from Manly to Cleveland.

This would include ExpressLink train services from Cleveland running all stops to Manly before travelling express to inner Brisbane seven days a week.

Transport Minister Rachel Nolan would not commit to a timeframe for the bayside section of the project, but she announced the delivery of the Cross River Rail tunnel last week. Rail Back on Track secretary Robert Dow said the announcement meant local commuters could expect the line duplication sooner than anticipated "We are looking at 2015/16 for the Cross River Rail tunnel and we would like to see the Cleveland duplication brought forward either built before or run concurrently with the tunnel," he said "There will be bidirectional signalling so trains can run on one line.

"The Cleveland line has become an important commuter line and it needs major station upgrades all the way through. (The duplication) is certainly overdue."

A spokesman for Ms Nolan told the Herald last week that under the new project Cleveland rail-goers could expect to arrive in the city within 45 minutes.

Frequencies would be also be doubled with trains departing stations every 15 minutes, off peak.

"A long-term vision is important because it takes a long time to take projects from idea to reality," the spokesman said.

However, he also added each aspect of the project in the plan was not "fully funded" and the state would seek additional funding from other levels of government. Opposition Leader John-Paul Langbroek condemned the draft plan saying it was not "intended to be fully funded" with no detailed cost estimates sought.

Member for Lytton Paul Lucas welcomed the transport investment.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1393945934552178695

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1394359502430826496

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1394396537300557826

[ozbob]

Couriermail Quest --> Second train track to Cleveland for Cross River Rail to succeed  $

The state government's prized $5.4 billion Cross River Rail project could be shown up as an unreliable flop if one of the busiest passenger train lines is not upgraded.

The state government's prized $5.4 billion Cross River Rail project could be shown up as an unreliable flop if one of the busiest passenger train lines in southeast Queensland is not upgraded.

Secret documents, made public for the first time this week, called for the single-track Cleveland passenger rail line to be upgraded with a second track. ...

[ozbob]

Been a popular FB post this one ...   

[ozbob]

https://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/documents/tableOffice/questionsAnswers/2021/457-2021.pdf

Question on Notice
No. 457
Asked on 21 April 2021

DR M ROBINSON ASKED MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND MAIN ROADS
(HON M BAILEY)

QUESTION:

With reference to the publicly announced 15 minute time saving for rail travel from the Redlands
to the City due to Cross River Rail—

Will the Minister confirm (a) if this projected timeframe stands as correct and (b) the
commencement date for construction of the duplication of the line from Manly to Cleveland to
facilitate the projected time savings?

ANSWER:

I thank the Member for Oodgeroo for the question.

(a) Cross River Rail (CRR) will transform the way we travel to, through and from Brisbane in
the future. Multiple major transport investments in South East Queensland (SEQ), including
ongoing road and bus improvements across the Redlands region, will improve the
connectivity of our network for passenger transport users.

The Cross River Rail Delivery Authority, Department of Transport and Main Roads,
Queensland Rail and other experts, are planning the seamless integration of new services
into the SEQ rail network once Cross River Rail becomes operational. This work includes
consideration of wider rail network strategies, and other factors like the impact on patronage
due to COVID-19.

Queenslanders can have full confidence that planning to determine the exact configuration
and timing of services will be completed well ahead of Cross River Rail's opening.
There are a number of ways travel time savings and other travel benefits will be generated
for Redlands public transport passengers with the introduction of CRR. CRR will create new
high-capacity stations in convenient city centre locations, enable better interchanges
between bus and rail services, and lead to shorter journeys door-to-door, especially for
commuters travelling to the heart of the Brisbane central business district (CBD) and to
Woolloongabba.

It is clear that commuters will notice great benefits from the first CBD train station built in
more than 120 years. The new underground Albert Street station will dramatically improve
connectivity to the southern part of the CBD from its main entrance.

For example, a commuter wanting to travel to Queens Wharf Precinct, walking from Roma
street, would typically take 17 minutes. From the new Albert Street station, this walk would
take just five minutes. This is a 12-minute saving in walking time.

There will be more direct public transport to more locations and greater capacity for future
service increases. More services, via the new CRR alignment, will mean less congestion
on the existing rail lines through the city and inner southern area.

The Palaszczuk Government consistently backed commuters with more train services than
ever before with another 105 weekly services—or 58,000 seats—added to the network to
increase social distancing during COVID-19.

CRR would not be happening if the LNP was in office. In addition, even as recently as last
year, the LNP have stated its support for the New Dutton Station option, which would have
meant Cleveland line commuters facing a nine-minute walk to interchange to access CRR
stations.

In contrast, Cleveland line commuters on the current CRR project route can seamlessly
change at Boggo Road for new tunnel services for the first time to the Gabba and Albert
Street and Ekka stations.

Economies worldwide are enduring the harshest economic downturn in generations, and
Queensland's economy is not immune. We know that every job counts more than ever right
now. The Palaszczuk Government will always back Queenslanders and jobs, especially as
we rebound from a global pandemic.

Thousands of construction workers on CRR would have been robbed of their jobs if this
project did not go ahead. I note that no progress was made on duplication of the Cleveland
line by the 2012–15 LNP Newman Government, of which the Member for Oodgeroo was a
part.

(b) The Palaszczuk Government remains committed to delivering efficient and reliable rail
connections for the residents of eastern Brisbane and Redland City along the Cleveland
line. This commitment is reflected in the recommendations and actions of ShapingSEQ and
the recently released South East Queensland Regional Transport Plans. Single track and
slow curved tracks limit how many services the Cleveland line can currently run. The extra
capacity on the network enabled by CRR will make other rail network growth projects like
the Manly to Cleveland line duplication more viable.

TMR is currently undertaking planning for the Cleveland line, which includes the Manly to
Cleveland section. This planning will result in a better understanding of the possible
reliability and travel time improvements to identify the most suitable solutions to address
and enhance rail services on the line.

Commencement of any construction would occur following the completion of planning and
identification of the most suitable solution to improve reliability and travel time on the
Cleveland line, in line with demand and other network priorities.

The Queensland Transport and Roads Investment Program 2020–21 to 2023–24 represents a
record investment in road and transport infrastructure for the fifth year in a row, with $26.9 billion
in works committed over the next four years, supporting an average of approximately 23,600
direct jobs over the life of the program. Of this, $120.2 million is committed across the Redlands
City area.

With the pandemic impacting Queensland businesses and communities, significant road
upgrades will be delivered to help stimulate the economy as part of Unite and Recover:
Queensland's Economic Recovery Plan. These upgrades provide immediate economic record
benefits, support more jobs and deliver ongoing benefits of vital infrastructure for years to come.

[ozbob]

" ... TMR is currently undertaking planning for the Cleveland line, which includes the Manly to
Cleveland section. This planning will result in a better understanding of the possible
reliability and travel time improvements to identify the most suitable solutions to address
and enhance rail services on the line.

Commencement of any construction would occur following the completion of planning and
identification of the most suitable solution to improve reliability and travel time on the
Cleveland line, in line with demand and other network priorities. ... "

At least an acknowledgement.  Lets not forget TMR have had the GHD Study "Park Road to Cleveland Rail Upgrade Planning Project State 1 Duplication - Technical Assessment Report"  since 2017 though.

I smell BS 

Queenslander!!

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1395821635018526720

[Stillwater]

What's the logic behind this statement from the Minister?:

"The extra capacity on the network enabled by CRR will make other rail network growth projects like the Manly to Cleveland line duplication more viable."

How? This government makes out that every problem on the SEQ passenger rail network is solved by building CRR.

[ozbob]

What he is indicating wrt the Cleveland line is that there will be a lot more slots available for trains coming off the Cleveland line as the Gold Coast/Beenleigh line will be going into the tunnel.  It is important that more trains do come off the Cleveland line to provide a reasonable service level when the other trains are in the tunnel.   This line should be have been improved long ago. 



^ SEQ rail in 2025