QR ICEs breaking down too much!

[Queenslandah93]

G'day all.

I went to catch the 10:58 Cooroy service yesterday with a mate, and we like the ICE trains (that's why we were there), and joy of joys we got a regular EMU to ride on for two-and-a-half hours. Three carriages! Not happy.   I love the ICE trains, but its frustrating that they can't do the job they were originally designed to do. Is there some way QR can make them more reliable? Or make them more accessible for rail enthusiasts?

Queenslandah93

[STB]

The main unreliability factor, if you ask some train fanatics is that it's simply because the ICE sets were built to do long haul services ie: they were the original trains doing the Brisbane to Rockhampton run, which they aren't doing nowadays.  The main breakdowns tend to be door-related.

IMHO I wouldn't be surprised if the ICE sets will be taken out of service in the coming years, to be replaced with the IMUs.

[Stillwater]

However, the IMUs have a top speed of 140 km/hr.  Maybe they would be an interim measure, since Premier Anna Bligh has promised trains operating at 160 km/hr on the Sunshine Coast and Gold Coast lines.  However, no timeline has been given for the introduction of such trains and it remains unclear how, in future, trains could do the Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast runs in 'about one hour' unless that involves substantial upgrade of speed-limited sections of track between Beerburrum and Nambour and construction of the Trouts Road rail corridor.  Agree, the ICE is a good train, even if the interiors are looking a bit shabby these days.

[STB]

The ICE sets have a speed limit of 120km/hr.

[ozbob]

Welcome Queenslandah93.  I like the ICE sets too ..  understand that there might be some work done on them too.


Tennyson - the Tennyson-Lander .. 



Photograph R Dow 21st November 2009

[STB]

Don't get me wrong, I love the ICE sets.  Any chance that I'm heading up the coast, I look up to see if the train will be serviced (at least by Train ID) by an ICE set.

[Arnz]

Outside of the scheduled (Train ID: XL__) ICE runs, a very limited number of runs up the Sunshine Coast are serviced by IMUs (Train IDs are either TL__ or UL__).   The majority of the runs up here are EMUs/SMUs. 

On some good news, 6-car IMUs equipped with toilets has returned to the 12:39pm (ex-Roma Street) weekday timeslot again recently, operating on Monday and Tuesday (yesturday).  Unfortunately today's run was a 6-car refurb'd SMU with auto-voice/PIDs announcements.

I'm guessing School Holidays may be one of the reasons for IMUs coming up at unusual times (apart from the usual EMUs maybe being unavailable for maintenance/cleaning)

[Stillwater]

Re possibility of work on the ICE train sets, would that include making them more user-friendly for people with disabilities?  What else should be done?  Also, at some stage, thought will need to be given to making permanent long stations of the temporary platform scaffold structures at places like Palmwoods, Eudlo, Woombye etc with a view to having them more level with the lip of the door to each carriage.  But would you do that and then make them redundant once the track is realigned to Nambour? 

[Otto]

G'day all.

I went to catch the 10:58 Cooroy service yesterday with a mate, and we like the ICE trains (that's why we were there), and joy of joys we got a regular EMU to ride on for two-and-a-half hours. Three carriages! Not happy.   I love the ICE trains, but its frustrating that they can't do the job they were originally designed to do. Is there some way QR can make them more reliable? Or make them more accessible for rail enthusiasts?

Queenslandah93

I saw the ICE arrive at Roma Street from Mayne yards at about 5:35/40pm to do a trip north that same day.. Could not see the desto from my position.. 6 car service..

[ClintonL94]

I saw the ICE arrive at Roma Street from Mayne yards at about 5:35/40pm to do a trip north that same day.. Could not see the desto from my position.. 6 car service..

Around that time of the day, the Gympie North train is scheduled to be a 6 car ICE train. Infact, I was on one yesterday going to Caboolture.

[somebody]

However, the IMUs have a top speed of 140 km/hr.  Maybe they would be an interim measure, since Premier Anna Bligh has promised trains operating at 160 km/hr on the Sunshine Coast and Gold Coast lines. 

And the 160 series IMUs reduce this to 130km/h.  Frankly, I do not really believe that anything like this will happen.  CRR should save 5 minutes+ from the Gold Coast, so that brings City-Robina down to 71mins.  And Central-Caboolture is currently 49mins.  Sunshine Coast in "around an hour"?  Yeah, right.  Would require higher speedsPetrie-Caboolture to get anything close, even with Trouts Rd via Kelvin Grove, I think.

Even if they do get 160km/h south of Beenleigh, if they take a hit on acceleration to get there it is likely to be a backward step.

I suppose looking at the positive side, at least they are thinking about improving rail.

[Stillwater]

As you suggest, Somebody, there must be some logical reasoning behind the Premier's statement that the public is not yet privvy to.  The tilt train takes something like one hour forty minutes to travel from Nambour to Roma Street with a single stop at Caboolture, so the 'about an hour' journey time promise requires clarification about just where on the Sunshine Coast the Premier is using as her reference point.  Is it Nambour, Maroochydore, or Beerwah?  The 'about an hour' timing must also include express trains from the Sunshine Coast rulling in the 15 km Trouts Road corridor.  That would seem to be the only way the one-hour journey time can be achieved.  So, that will be a long way off.  What are the practical things to be done in the short to medium term?

[Sunbus610]

Another negative issue with the ICE sets (and which is likely to get worse as our SEQ population increases) is the reduced number of seating per car *double l isle l single* 3 seats across compared with EMU's, SMU's and IMU's *double l isle l double* 4 seats across, Many times I've seen commuters on morning peak services having to stand in the vestibules or sit on the floor in the isles (a distance from Caboolture down and sometimes further north) with very little to hang on to should the train jerk or need to brake a little harder than usual not to mention the lack of comfort for passengers.

[Barbar]

........  What are the practical things to be done in the short to medium term?

How about once in a while QR have a go at steam cleaning the ICE train seat upholstery.

[Fares_Fair]

hear hear !

Regards,
Fares_Fair

[Stillwater]

Why stop at the seats?  Do the carpets as well.  Very comfortable units and get along at a good pace, where the track allows.

[mufreight]

These units are in need of updating, the carriage shells have many years of service life in them ang an upgrade of their electrical equipment to enable them to operate in MU with the latest series of IMU sets and the provision of a larger door at one end of the drive cars to make then compliant for disability access.
A far cheaper option for these units which would improve their reliability and they could then become dedicated long haul interurban units on services to Gympie and if electrification is extended to Helidon used on services to there.

[HappyTrainGuy]

The ICE sets are already exclusively used on Gympie runs

[Arnz]

The ICE sets are already exclusively used on Gympie runs

Not untill the draft 2011 timetable changes is done (ICEs are also used on the Cooroy and the weekend Nambour-Caboolture shuttles).  

The 2011 draft timetable will restrict them exclusively to Gympie North runs.  Nambour runs in the 2011 drafts are either IMUs or EMU/SMUs (depending on run number in the draft timetables)

[cartoonbirdhaus]

How about once in a while QR have a go at steam cleaning the ICE train seat upholstery.

Indeed. In one instance, one of the seats had what looked like dried blood all over the armrest.

[Fares_Fair]

The ICE sets are already exclusively used on Gympie runs

Not untill the draft 2011 timetable changes is done (ICEs are also used on the Cooroy and the weekend Nambour-Caboolture shuttles).  

The 2011 draft timetable will restrict them exclusively to Gympie North runs.  Nambour runs in the 2011 drafts are either IMUs or EMU/SMUs (depending on run number in the draft timetables)

We currently enjoy the ICE trains for Ex-Nambour services approx. 4 out of 5 times per week.
We love 'em. They really do need a good steam clean though.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[BrizCommuter]

Another negative issue with the ICE sets (and which is likely to get worse as our SEQ population increases) is the reduced number of seating per car *double l isle l single* 3 seats across compared with EMU's, SMU's and IMU's *double l isle l double* 4 seats across, Many times I've seen commuters on morning peak services having to stand in the vestibules or sit on the floor in the isles (a distance from Caboolture down and sometimes further north) with very little to hang on to should the train jerk or need to brake a little harder than usual not to mention the lack of comfort for passengers.

Replacing ICE services with IMUs is an instant seating capacity increase. It's a bit of a no brainer!

[HappyTrainGuy]

The ICE sets are already exclusively used on Gympie runs

Not untill the draft 2011 timetable changes is done (ICEs are also used on the Cooroy and the weekend Nambour-Caboolture shuttles).  

The 2011 draft timetable will restrict them exclusively to Gympie North runs.  Nambour runs in the 2011 drafts are either IMUs or EMU/SMUs (depending on run number in the draft timetables)

It might not exactly be exclusive yet but I can't remember the last time I saw anything other than a ICE pass me on the Caboolture down line doing the daily Gympie North run

[somebody]

Replacing ICE services with IMUs is an instant seating capacity increase. It's a bit of a no brainer!

But less comfortable seats.  The comfortable seats are what people love so much about CityRail's V-sets.  Other than that there isn't much to like about them.  Pretty annoying tiny doors which you have to open both sides individually are my main beef.  But they remain loved by all.

What is a no brainer is getting rid of the longitudinal seating on IMUs except where the wheelchair spaces are.

The main problem I have with the ICEs is that they are slower than the other trains.

The loadings on the Sunshine Coast line seems to make increasing the seating not really a priority, the way I see it.

[PollyWouldLikeASeat]

I love the ICE train, its very comfortable, but not when you have to stand from Beerwah into the City.  The last couple of weeks on Monday and Tuesday mornings it has been packed when it gets to Beerwah.  I've given up and have had to move up the half hour earlier service just so I can be sure of getting a seat.

[petey3801]

How about once in a while QR have a go at steam cleaning the ICE train seat upholstery.

Indeed. In one instance, one of the seats had what looked like dried blood all over the armrest.

Did you advise the Guard of this? Traincrew don't know everything that is happening/has happened on the train, we rely on people to tell us of problems that are on the train, or we will just keep going blissfully unaware!

[HappyTrainGuy]

The main problem I have with the ICEs is that they are slower than the other trains.

That's because they are geared for longer distance being ex Rockhampton runners and what the track around it allows. They can actually run faster than IMU's in terms of top speeds as IIRC they were designed for running at 160kph but were limited to 120-130kph for its current operational duties.

[somebody]

The main problem I have with the ICEs is that they are slower than the other trains.

That's because they are geared for longer distance being ex Rockhampton runners and what the track around it allows. They can actually run faster than IMU's in terms of top speeds as IIRC they were designed for running at 160kph but were limited to 120-130kph for its current operational duties.

Sounds like the current situation means that we get the worst of all possible worlds.  Aren't they limited to 120km/h in current service?

[HappyTrainGuy]

The main problem I have with the ICEs is that they are slower than the other trains.

That's because they are geared for longer distance being ex Rockhampton runners and what the track around it allows. They can actually run faster than IMU's in terms of top speeds as IIRC they were designed for running at 160kph but were limited to 120-130kph for its current operational duties.

Sounds like the current situation means that we get the worst of all possible worlds.  Aren't they limited to 120km/h in current service?

That sounds about right. Designed for 160kph, operate at 120kph.

[railguy83]

Just because a train is designed to be able to go at 160kph, does not mean that it should be in revenue serivce at those speeds due to issues such as passenger comfort etc. Its like a car that can go 300kph, but you need to change the tyres every week, it is designed for it, does not mean you should do it 

When the track can take trains at 160kph, then we can complain about trains not going that fast IMHO.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Just because a train is designed to be able to go at 160kph, does not mean that it should be in revenue serivce at those speeds due to issues such as passenger comfort etc. Its like a car that can go 300kph, but you need to change the tyres every week, it is designed for it, does not mean you should do it  

When the track can take trains at 160kph, then we can complain about trains not going that fast IMHO.

No one stated anything about them having to run that fast. My main point was that the longer gearing ratios that the ICE trains currently use because of being ex-Rockhampton/Traveltrain/Innercity train runners, it gives them a slower acceleration but a higher top speed compared to the other fleet (EMU's/SMU's/IMU's) available in response to somebody saying that "they were slower than the other trains".

CTT/RTT = 210kph+ but limited to 160kph
ICE = 160kph but limited to around 120ish-kph
IMU100 series = 150kph but limited to 140kph
IMU160 series = 130kph
SMU/EMU = 115ish but limited to 100kph

An EMU accelerates faster than the TiltTrain but the TiltTrain can do more than double the EMU's top speed.

[somebody]

Just because a train is designed to be able to go at 160kph, does not mean that it should be in revenue serivce at those speeds due to issues such as passenger comfort etc. Its like a car that can go 300kph, but you need to change the tyres every week, it is designed for it, does not mean you should do it 

When the track can take trains at 160kph, then we can complain about trains not going that fast IMHO.

What about Petrie-Beerburrum?  That's a pretty straight, fast section now isn't it?

[HappyTrainGuy]

I'd have to do a check but I think the TT's are limited to 140kph after Caboolture because of the stations in that section.

[cartoonbirdhaus]

Did you advise the Guard of this? Traincrew don't know everything that is happening/has happened on the train, we rely on people to tell us of problems that are on the train, or we will just keep going blissfully unaware!

I had no idea how long it had been there. Wish I had mentioned it to the guard, though.