Safety and security issues, articles, discussion.

[SurfRail]

Really wondering what when on here.  I thought there would have been warnings in the drivers cabs that a door was not closed?

Manual over-ride? 

Anyone know what was going on with the train?

[ In Melbourne when I was kid we usually travelled around with doors open on the Taits on warm days.  No big deal.  Problem here now of course is that doors are meant to be closed, absolutely. ]

A Tait wouldn't get up to 140kph with 10km between stations of course.

This is fairly worrying stuff.

[ozbob]

Of course.  Major incident.

[ people did fall out of the Taits now and again too by the way ... ]

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/7NewsBrisbane/status/900563020065067009

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/brisbanetimes/status/900586160644173824

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Gold Coast train filmed travelling with doors open

A train has been filmed travelling at speed while the doors were open and the Queensland state opposition has been quick to point the finger at the Palaszczuk government.

A passenger on the Gold Coast train filmed as the train sped along with the doors wide open.

The video of the incident was tweeted from the Liberal National Party account on Thursday, along with a call for Transport Minister Jackie Trad to "take responsibility".

A Queensland Rail spokeswoman said the incident was being investigated.

Comment has been sought from Ms Trad.

[Derwan]

As I understand, once upon a time the EMU's could be driven with doors open - but now there are failsafe's on all trains that means they can't move unless all doors are closed.

Very alarming.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Really wondering what when on here.  I thought there would have been warnings in the drivers cabs that a door was not closed?

Manual over-ride? 

Anyone know what was going on with the train?

[ In Melbourne when I was kid we usually travelled around with doors open on the Taits on warm days.  No big deal.  Problem here now of course is that doors are meant to be closed, absolutely. ]

Can't go off much but from what I've read it sounds like there's been a fault with the door locking at Robina. Its then been fixed with a manual intervention and resumed service. When it got to Nerang someone outside has activated the doors which opened them. The same locking fault has reappeared and the train has then taken off to Helensvale with the door open. What the manual intervention was is the issue as there are multiple ways of disabling and locking the plug doors. Some of which can disable what can be seen in the cabs/punches out fault codes due to the plug door design. It could also be influenced by what the driver has done ie relying on incorrect or misinterpreted information such as the guard locking or securing the door.

WHAT did I just read?   

Passengers believe a communication breakdown occurred between staff on the train and those on the platform because the doors had been turned off manually.

It's always "there was a communication issue". Whether it is twitter, correspondence between the minister and QR, trapped passengers in a train peeing in bottles...or whatever.

Let's face it - Queensland Rail should not be operating trains in SEQ.

If only a private operator could get away with half the things QR has done and get its contracts renewed again.

Would you seriously p%ss off with your constant bullsh%t mate. Give it a bloody rest. We get it. You have a hard on for Metro. Good for you. Now go chant that crap somewhere else. Christ. If there's any fault its oh a private operator would have been reamed over it and that QR isn't fit. Its a load of BS. There's a reason why Metro is constantly being blasted by locals for its shotty practices. Anyway there's lots of times where a particular type of train in Melbourne has had its doors not properly secure mid trip. And finding videos of it wasn't difficult.

Lets face it. You do not know the facts Metro. The passengers do not know the facts. How could the PSA at one station know what the PSA did at another station. How would the PSA know what was happening when they have no direct communication to train drivers. The station staff have no safeworking knowledge when it comes to operating the trains. If a PSA at Nerang saw the train going past the end of the platform they'd have to go back to the station office, contact control directly who would then relay them to the workstation responsible for that area to issue a message to the train. Do you know if the train did the full speed to Helensvale or did it reduce its speed/guard told passengers to move away from the area until it got to helensvale? Do you know how many different methods there are to securing the doors such as locking outside access, locking inside access, locking all access, locking and disabling access? Do you know the limitations of rollingstock when it comes to these sorts of things? The fact that there are quotes of conductor and on site train assistant should tell you something. Did anyone bother to notify any onboard staff about the door as it was leaving Nerang? or did the phones come out? So bugger off to the privatised thread if you wanna bitch about it.

[#Metro]

Would you seriously p%ss off with your constant bullsh%t mate. Give it a bloody rest. We get it. You have a hard on for Metro. Good for you. Now go chant that crap somewhere else. Christ. If there's any fault its oh a private operator would have been reamed over it and that QR isn't fit. Its a load of BS. There's a reason why Metro is constantly being blasted by locals for its shotty practices. Anyway there's lots of times where a particular type of train in Melbourne has had its doors not properly secure mid trip. And finding videos of it wasn't difficult.

Queensland Rail can be confident that the Queensland Government will never ever refuse to renew its contract, no matter how dangerous or poor services could become.

It is a miracle that no fatality or injury occurred on this occasion.

UPDATE: There is a new story just written at CM about a bullying claim.

Train cleaner sues Queensland Rail in bullying claim

A FORMER Brisbane train cleaner has sued Queensland Rail for more than half a million dollars, claiming he was ridiculed in the workplace with the nickname "Fluffy Nuts".

Mr Adams claims that he suffered a "serious mental ­disorder", pain and suffering after QR failed to protect him from bullying by colleagues at the Mayne Rail Yard in Bowen Hills.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/crime-and-justice/train-cleaner-sues-queensland-rail-in-bullying-claim/news-story/a8b61ad727db2346e45175b963637603

[Otto]

As I understand, once upon a time the EMU's could be driven with doors open - but now there are failsafe's on all trains that means they can't move unless all doors are closed.

Very alarming.

I was on a Ferny Grove bound EMU back when they were new. We went over the flyover at Mayne yards with the doors open. I thought it was exciting ! .. LOL, I was only a teen then.. ( wasn't as exciting as traveling through the city tunnels in an Evans car with the lights out )

[ozbob]

Really wondering what when on here.  I thought there would have been warnings in the drivers cabs that a door was not closed?

Manual over-ride? 

Anyone know what was going on with the train?

[ In Melbourne when I was kid we usually travelled around with doors open on the Taits on warm days.  No big deal.  Problem here now of course is that doors are meant to be closed, absolutely. ]

Can't go off much but from what I've read it sounds like there's been a fault with the door locking at Robina. Its then been fixed with a manual intervention and resumed service. When it got to Nerang someone outside has activated the doors which opened them. The same locking fault has reappeared and the train has then taken off to Helensvale with the door open. What the manual intervention was is the issue as there are multiple ways of disabling and locking the plug doors. Some of which can disable what can be seen in the cabs/punches out fault codes due to the plug door design. It could also be influenced by what the driver has done ie relying on incorrect or misinterpreted information such as the guard locking or securing the door.

Thanks HTG, seems very plausible.

[verbatim9]

In the Netherlands in the 90s some older train doors didn't close. You were speeding between cities with the wind coming through the carriage at 130kph. I remember being on one. Luckily it was Summer:)

[tazzer9]

My two biggest issues with this is the train is now out of gauge and travelling at 130km/h.   And that those speeds the bernoulli effect would be enough to suck any light items out. 

[ozbob]

Interviews with Emma Griffiths ABC Radio Brisbane - Drive 24th August 2017

Robert Dow: CRR, and then Door Open on GC train

Click --> here! 6.7MB MP3

Deputy Premier & Transport Minister Trad: Door Open on GC train, then CRR.

Click --> here! 6.1MB MP3

[HappyTrainGuy]

My two biggest issues with this is the train is now out of gauge and travelling at 130km/h.   And that those speeds the bernoulli effect would be enough to suck any light items out.

Its a train. Not an airplane.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/901945196350341120

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/7NewsBrisbane/status/902083327837970432

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/7NewsBrisbane/status/902419198990729216

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/9NewsQueensland/status/902784486387048448

[Otto]

A driver on the 100 route was verbally assulted and spat on tonight.

I think more of these assults are being reported to authorities now given the current industrial relations climate, were previously drivers just put up with the majority of minor attacks and just continued on with work. The time has now come when we can no longer ignore this kind of behavior .

A few years ago, I had a motorist follow me into Carina Depot late at night , so I just kept driving around the depot in circles until other drivers arrived at the depot. The motorist then left. I never reported it, but it was scary at the time.

The worst that has happened to me was about 30 years ago at Victoria Point. I was just sitting at Benfer Rd waiting to do a 621 Bullet to the City . A cyclist arrives and dumps his bike in front of my bus and starts punching me and ripped my shirt. I was quite shaken, but I still started my trip to the City. I was young and just wanted to do the right thing for my passengers. Reported the incident to police, but nothing was ever done.
Turns out, it was another driver nearby at the time who had a close shave with the cyclist, and I am only guessing that the cyclist saw my bus which was identical to the other drivers bus and thought I must have been the driver that he was obviously angry at.

[ozbob]

Shocking Otto.  I hope the drivers do get perspex protection in the buses.

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/902944105054871552

[verbatim9]

Apparently it would be difficult to retro fit full perspex enclosures on the existing fleet. New builds can easily have fully enclosed driver cabs with perspex. The government may go with partial enclosure for existing buses or the mesh Full perspex enclosure with new orders of buses?

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/7NewsBrisbane/status/904987993760399361

[Stillwater]

'Points fault' investigation:

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/safety-investigation-after-train-ran-red-signal-causing-rail-chaos-20170906-p4yvrj.html

[ozbob]

'Points fault' investigation:

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/safety-investigation-after-train-ran-red-signal-causing-rail-chaos-20170906-p4yvrj.html

Thanks.   

More discussion on this > https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=12649.msg197621#msg197621

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/news_mail/status/906073203268874242

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Safety concerns after Queensland Rail plans changes to railway sleeper testing standards

SAFETY concerns surround a project to replace the state's ageing timber railway sleepers after Queensland Rail flagged plans to lower its test standards.

QR called for bids last year for an alternative composite sleeper product to replace more than 700,000 hardwood timber sleepers across the state's rail network.

Composite sleepers can outlast traditional timber sleepers by decades and match them in strength.

But safety concerns have been raised after an internal QR document, seen by The Courier-Mail, revealed the rail operator was preparing to reduce its testing requirements for the new sleepers.

The document said QR planned to reduce the "pullout load requirements for dogscrews" to 20kN, which was half the 40kN force prescribed in the Australian Standard for testing the strength of timber sleepers.

It has triggered industry concerns about the potential for railway track failures, should the reduced test standard open the door to a cheap, inferior replacement sleeper product.

The test relates to the holding power of the screw spike fixing the track rails to the sleepers.

QR had initially specified the sleeper replacements would need to meet the Australian Standard, requiring screws in the sleepers to not pull out, yield or crack under a test load of 40kN.

One engineer, who asked for his name to be withheld, said there was no compelling evidence to support the lowering of the standard and public safety was at risk.

QR chief executive officer Nick Easy said yesterday extensive investigations into the pull-out strength load performance of composite sleepers specific to QR's loading scenarios determined 20kN was adequate to meet safety requirements.

Concerns about testing standards is the latest in a series of criticisms about the beleaguered rail operator after a chronic driver shortage triggered the cancellation of hundreds of services.

A review of QR operations by German rail operator Deutsche Bahn in July revealed the train driver shortages and heavily delayed $4.4 billion New Generation Rollingstock project had put transport plans for next year's Commonwealth Games at risk.

The report also recommended overhauling QR's management of safety functions and warned of a "high risk of delays" due to ageing trains, kept running for the Games, breaking down.

[ozbob]

^

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/910181482143944704

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/910182074132267008

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

20th September 2017

Railway sleepers and dogscrews

Good Morning,

An article in today's Couriermail raises some concerns with the use of composite sleepers and the lowering of ' pullout load requirements for dogscrews ' from the Australian standard of 40 kN for wood sleepers to 20kN for  the composite sleepers.
[ Couriermail --> Safety concerns after Queensland Rail plans changes to railway sleeper testing standards ]

This all seems a bit odd.  My understanding is that composite sleepers have an actual resistance to pull out of dogscrews in the order of 70kN or more.  So maintaining the requirement at 40kN seems a no brainer.

Any chance of a detailed explanation of what is going on here please?  Thank you.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/910185886037426176

[red dragin]

I would have assumed they'd be Pandrol clipped? The screws must hold the clip plate to the sleeper?

[verbatim9]

Are composite sleepers a cheaper alternative to concrete sleepers? Which are better composite or concrete? I notice in NSW most have been replaced with concrete sleepers except at junctions and older bridges.

[techblitz]

^ theres no 'one perfect solution' Both timber and concrete have their adv/disadv. I think ultimately once a good composite prototype is developed then every rail line will move to composites. Testing is THE single most important factor here.You cannot put a price on it...

[red dragin]

Timber ~10 years
Concrete ~20 years
Composite ~50 years.

Cost would be higher, but for situations like the Merivale Bridge where changing sleepers is difficult, they are perfect. Factor in labour I'd suspect they are cheaper over say a 100 year time frame in general use.

They are also suitable for crossovers as you can drill holes where needed, whereas concrete come premade.

[ozbob]

I hope there is some sort of clarification on the premise of the above article. One anonymous source does not make summer!  I did some quick research this morning and quickly established that composite sleepers have an actual resistance to dogscrew pullout of 70 kN or so.  So why would you specify 20 kN?  Doesn't seem to make sense, particularly when the wood standard is 40kN and this has worked.  If you lower the resistance level to 20kN then is making the track integrity weaker overall.  Yo red dragin, composite sleepers particularly suited for crossovers because of the ability to drill where needed.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Wouldn't surprise me if its just taken out of context to make a story as you don't need the same sleepers on a road at Mayne with a 8kph max speed limit vs the same one meant to support a fully loaded coalie doing 80kph down Black Mountain.

[Cazza]

Was on the 2:45pm northbound tram. I was up near the front.

After we departed Main Beach, we picked up speed to around 60km/h and just as we were about to hit the Sundale Bridge, we braked quite suddenly. The driver started to ding his bell multiple times at this person walking north along side the tram tracks with her headphones on-plain stupidity. We had to pull up right next to her (with a distance of about 70cm between the tram and the fence) for her to hear and the driver to tell her to turn back.

I assume she was a tourist (from Asia) but there were signs everywhere saying tram only-on pedestrian access with a footpath right next to the track. Sometimes, common sense can go a lonnng way.

[bretto82]

https://www.facebook.com/7NewsBrisbane/videos/1660919280587584/ The nimbies stopped another coal train today this time approaching fishermans island they also did the same at abbot point this week

[HappyTrainGuy]

Hit em with some bean bags and move along.

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Queensland roads: Woman critical after hit and run in Bowen Hills

FOOTAGE has shown the moment a Brisbane woman was run over in a shocking hit and run.

About 1am this morning, a CCTV camera from a nearby bar, shows the 27-year-old woman walk across Hamilton St at Bowen Hills, before being struck by a large pettibone turning the corner.

The driver of the large piece of machinery slows to a halt after the incident, but drives off after the arrival of another motorist.

Police have seized the pettibone, which is owned by Queensland Rail.

The woman is fighting for life.

A 58-year-old man has come forward to police and is assisting them.

The woman is in a critical condition with serious head injuries and has undergone emergency surgery.

Equipment pictured on the pettibone which police believe may be involved in the incident is used in the maintenance of railway lines.

In a statement, a QR CEO Nick Easy said: "This is a terrible incident and my thoughts are with the young woman and her family at this time.

"This is a police matter under investigation. Queensland Rail is doing everything possible to assist emergency services with their inquiries."

It is unclear if the person driving was a QR employee.

In a separate incident, an elderly man is in a critical condition in the Royal Brisbane and Women's Hospital after he was hit by an SUV in Windsor.

He was hit while crossing Bowen St around 7pm on Wednesday.

[ozbob]

^

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/916332760469348352