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Author Topic: Darra-RiverHills 452 Feeder  (Read 5447 times)

Offline #Metro

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Darra-RiverHills 452 Feeder
« on: September 19, 2010, 10:55:03 AM »
I think David was discussing improvements to route 452.

Route 452 timetable: http://download.translink.com.au/timetables/080331_452.pdf
Ipswich Line timetable: http://download.translink.com.au/timetables/100427_ipswich.pdf

Its a neat little feeder bus, which just manages to get back to the station once it has done its loop- does anyone know what the patronage on it is like? It has a small area to cover- would more buses attract many more people?



Unfortunately, like other local/feeder services, its operating hours are limited and the last service departs Darra Station at 6:39 pm. A trip would take at least half an hour to get to the CBD at doing it this way, which IMHO is not much different to 455 rocket via Western Freeway for example. Although it does increase connections and some people would be going to Ipswich as well.

PS: A bridge over to Moggill would be very useful!
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Offline #Metro

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Re: Darra-RiverHills 452 Feeder
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2010, 10:56:33 AM »
? More early morning services so people can get to work at 8 and 9 am?
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Offline #Metro

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Re: Darra-RiverHills 452 Feeder
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2010, 03:34:50 PM »
Warning: Next post will contain dreaming!
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Offline #Metro

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Re: Darra-RiverHills 452 Feeder
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2010, 03:35:18 PM »
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Offline #Metro

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Re: Darra-RiverHills 452 Feeder
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2010, 03:51:11 PM »
(NB: All hypothetical)

Green line: 450 BUZ
Slow through WestLake, fast after Mt Ommaney.

Red line: 454 (every 20 minutes off peak?)
Fast to Mt Ommaney then slower through Jindalee.

Blue line: 452 Darra feeder bus (more frequent in peak hour to take surge capacity)
common corridor with portion of 454 to increase frequency on this section.

Orange line: (Un-numbered) Mt-Ommaney-17 Mile Rocks Pk-Darra Station feeder shuttle.
Runs from Darra, through 17 Mile Rocks Park, Mt Ommaney Shopping Centre. Continues express
from Mt Ommaney back to Darra Station. (This should get around that loopiness)

Purple: Existing 462 bus- unchanged

Common bus bays/small interchanges at DFO/Shopping Centre and Middle Park
Bicycle pods at these places plus Mt Ommaney as well.


PS: Miles Rocks Park;filled with horrible cul-de-sacs making direct PT in that area very hard indeed!!!
« Last Edit: September 19, 2010, 04:08:23 PM by tramtrain »
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somebody

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Re: Darra-RiverHills 452 Feeder
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2010, 04:54:51 PM »
Actually, TT, I think you have hit on something there.  I'm going to discuss these routes in colours, rather than numbers:

Red route: After Mt Ommaney shops, instead of going back to the freeway, continue along Dandenong Rd to Sumners Rd, and then to Riverhills West.

Green route: After Horizon Drive, run to Darra station.

Blue: Maybe, but if the green route goes to Darra, that probably isn't necessary.

Orange: 451 does something similar

Purple: I think you mean 468.  No need to change that one, except for extending to Indooroopilly rail.

EDIT: clarity
« Last Edit: September 19, 2010, 05:32:35 PM by somebody »

Offline #Metro

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Re: Darra-RiverHills 452 Feeder
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2010, 05:19:32 PM »
Thanks.  :-t  There might need to be a few 'revisions' or scenarios for this.
One of them has to be a BUZ. Rail frequency needs to be increased because then it isn't so critical to time things exactly and that allows longer cross town routes to be formed out of the short ones.

It is hard to keep to principles:

* Keep routes away from each other
* Make sure it is fast, avoid loopiness (cul-de-sac hell does not help!)
* Combine routes if they are close together
* Connect the major places

The area (orange route) around 17 miles rocks park is excruciatingly windy and filled with anti-public transport cul de sacs.
I hope the new developments in Yarrabilla and whatnot get vetted by TransLink!
Quote
Red route: After Mt Ommaney shops, instead of going back to the freeway, continue along Dandenong Rd, and then to Riverhills West.
I was thinking about this. It sounds reasonable. IIRC 453 runs on the motorway for a while, and I had it like this in this section to speed the route up. Maybe bus lanes and priority signaling would be just as good and allow it to run on main roads where the people are?

Quote
Green route: After Horizon Drive, run to Darra station.

Thought about this one, but decided that the route was extremely long and windy as it was already.
If I make the green route run to Darra, Riverhills West (Sumner road) will be cut off. Maybe the light blue line
can be routed to cover that pocket area. They will then have to interchange with the BUZ if they want to go to Darra Station.

Quote
Orange: 451 does something similar
That's because it IS 451, with a few changes.  :o

Quote
Purple: I think you mean 468.  No need to change that one, except for extending to Indooroopilly rail.

It could be extended to Inala, but IMHO all Inala buses should be heading to Darra, as that is where the UrbanLink & Express trains will be stopping in the future
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Offline #Metro

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Re: Darra-RiverHills 452 Feeder
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2010, 05:37:33 PM »
Ok, updating... round #2.. thanks for the feedback!  :-t
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Offline david

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Re: Darra-RiverHills 452 Feeder
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2010, 05:41:59 PM »
The ideas you have presented are excellent TT! Just some minor points:

The Orange Line already exists as the 103 (except for the loop from Darra back to Mt Ommaney via the Centenary Highway). All this needs is an increased frequency to 30 mins. The route is surprisingly popular, especially with Inala residents heading to Darra/Mt Ommaney.

The Blue/Purple Line (I couldn't figure out which colour it was) also exists as the 467. Its patronage is rather low, being a relatively new route. A route modification to serve Edenbrooke could be possible, however, I fear that this would also decrease its attractiveness to Windermere residents.

With the 452, patronage is also relatively high. The problem with most feeder routes into Darra at the moment is that the connections to train services are pathetic. Some passengers have to wait 10 to 15 minutes for the bus because the bus is scheduled to depart when the train arrives! The 452 is still fairly competitive with the 454/455 as the combined 452+train beats the 454/455 in terms of travel time on some occasions (especially when there is major traffic on Milton Rd/Coro Drive). The route modification that TT has proposed makes the route too short imo. I think the 452 is fine as is.

Just a bit of history here, but when CityTrans was first introduced, the 452 used to run off-peaks at 30-minute frequencies (between 9am and 3pm). No idea why they scrapped the off-peak service though. Perhaps with the proposed two-tier services at Darra, it would be possible to re-introduce these off-peak services?


Offline #Metro

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Re: Darra-RiverHills 452 Feeder
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2010, 05:45:38 PM »


 :-w WOW!!!

The BUZ now feeds Darra Station- which is a bit like through routing, in that near the end, people are getting off (from the CBD) and also getting on (to go to Darra/Ipswich).

Route 452 has been abolished in this hypothetical scenario, funding from that can be consolidated into route 443

Route 443
has been moved to cover the "Riverhills West" pocket. The route is also more direct. Interchange at Mt Ommaney for the 451 express to Darra Station and Ipswich, or stay on board for a trip to Indooroopilly and the CBD.

Route 451 Altered to run to Darra Station via Dandenong road- more direct for pax at Mt Ommaney who want to go to Darra but don't want the torture of winding around the back streets of WestLake.

@ David- yes, there is both 451 and 103 in this area.
They are both low frequency and run in parallel roads, halving the frequency in some areas. I'm thinking that I can split that orange route into two, the express bit being the Inala connecting bus... have to eat dinner now! So will post later.
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Re: Darra-RiverHills 452 Feeder
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2010, 06:00:29 PM »
Sorry, I meant for the red route to go via the Dandenong Rd & Sumners Rd intersection and avoid Horizon Dr, but your route isn't much different in travel time, and also serves another road, if that is an advantage.

Offline david

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Re: Darra-RiverHills 452 Feeder
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2010, 08:22:30 PM »
Just a picture of what I have been proposing:

Red Line: Re-routed 458
With the proposed Park and Ride at Jindalee, I think it would be appropriate for a new feeder service from Jindalee to Darra Station.

I propose that the 458 be re-routed to follow the following:
- Normal route up to Centenary Highway, follow Sinnamon Road to Centenary Highway Westbound on-ramp, Exit Mt Ommaney off-ramp, (L) Glen Ross Road, (R) Bellwood St and follow 451 to Darra station.

Blue Line: Re-routed 467
The Blue/Purple Line (I couldn't figure out which colour it was) also exists as the 467. Its patronage is rather low, being a relatively new route. A route modification to serve Edenbrooke could be possible, however, I fear that this would also decrease its attractiveness to Windermere residents.

« Last Edit: September 19, 2010, 08:31:36 PM by david »

Offline #Metro

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Re: Darra-RiverHills 452 Feeder
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2010, 09:21:14 PM »
Just out of curiosity- what is at Edenbrooke?
It has its own special dot on the TL timetable and the bus even loops on itself just to serve it?
So what's special at Edenbrooke?
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Offline david

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Re: Darra-RiverHills 452 Feeder
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2010, 09:38:04 PM »
Edenbrooke is just another estate in the Seventeen Mile Rocks/Sinnamon Park area. The place is full of houses. Unfortunately, the Edenbrooke bus stop is not placed in the best area to capture potential PT commuters. There is a massive hill (the gradient is 20% from memory) that people must walk up to get to the bus stop.

The reason why the 468 loops around the roundabout to serve the bus stop is because it is almost impossible to turn right from Duporth Road into 17 Mile Rocks Road to get to Oxley Station, due to the large volumes of traffic there. Hence it is easier to turn left, head down to the roundabout, U-turn and continue towards Oxley. IMO, if it wasn't for this traffic black spot, the Edenbrooke bus stop wouldn't be serviced at all (the 106 already services it).

As a side note, the intersection has been earmarked for an upgrade by BCC for a while now.

Offline #Metro

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Re: Darra-RiverHills 452 Feeder
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2010, 10:41:12 PM »



Update #3
Some changes:

Green Route: proposed BUZ 450 remains the same
Red Route: proposed Route 443 remains the same

Blue Route 103 now more direct (and hopefully more frequent too) connects Mt Ommaney directly to Darra & Inala
Orange Route 451 is turned into a feeder to BUZ 450 and Mt Ommaney. Passengers who want to go to Inala,
interchange at Mt Ommaney or Bellwood St.

Cycling in this area should be highly encouraged, as a high frequency bus can't be put down everybody's street.
Particularly at Mt Ommaney, DFO Jindalee, Westlake, Darra and Middle Park. This could be bike racks next to a "super stop".
Buses ideally would come inside the grounds of a shopping centre at interchanges or even simple dedicated bus bays inside the car parks to get closer to the passengers.  It is safer and less hassling than having to walk through a sea of cars and then cross busy roads -things car drivers do not have to deal with.

Increased train frequency will allow for the timetable to be "relaxed", that is allow buses to connect to trains without having to time the connection. This will allow longer cross town routes to be formed out of consolidating existing shorter routes, increasing cross-town connectivity. For example, the purple 468 bus in Update #3 above could be extended via the Ipswich Motorway to Griffith University, Sunnybank, QEII hospital and Garden City.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2010, 11:33:46 PM by tramtrain »
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somebody

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Re: Darra-RiverHills 452 Feeder
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2010, 07:26:55 PM »
This is what I prefer:



EDIT: green route now via Milton Rd
« Last Edit: December 25, 2010, 09:07:13 AM by somebody »

Offline #Metro

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Re: Darra-RiverHills 452 Feeder
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2010, 07:46:45 PM »
Thanks for this.  :-t
Which one is the BUZ 450? I take it is the green one?

I thought about a similar one, but settled on the one I have above because I wanted to avoid
having a situation where buses to the CBD were on both sides of the road travelling in opposite directions.

I see your proposal and IMHO it should work well.  :is-
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somebody

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Re: Darra-RiverHills 452 Feeder
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2010, 08:12:30 PM »
Which one is the BUZ 450? I take it is the green one?

I thought about a similar one, but settled on the one I have above because I wanted to avoid
having a situation where buses to the CBD were on both sides of the road travelling in opposite directions.

I see your proposal and IMHO it should work well.  :is-
I said both of them as a BUZ.

I agree that it is a limitation having the buses on both sides of the road, but I don't see that taking half of them away is the answer.

Offline #Metro

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Re: Darra-RiverHills 452 Feeder
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2010, 08:25:40 PM »
Maybe it is possible to have 2 BUZ services, but IMHO not sure if TL would put 2.
It would be useful because Jindalee and Sumbers Rd would not miss out.

 :is-
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