• Welcome to RAIL - Back On Track Forum.
 

17 Sept 2010: SEQ: Airtrain needs an improved service

Started by ozbob, September 17, 2010, 04:24:03 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

ozbob

Quote... I think a more reasonable price should be offered for improved off peak services ...

I do too, see earlier comment.  The charge at $460 though is not dear IMHO.  Try hiring a train and see what you are up against.  We toyed with the idea of a trial run for Ipswich to Helidon, around $10000 was a quote I vaguely recall.
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

somebody

Quote from: ozbob on October 18, 2010, 18:48:40 PM
Quote... I think a more reasonable price should be offered for improved off peak services ...

I do too, see earlier comment.  The charge at $460 though is not dear IMHO.  Try hiring a train and see what you are up against.  We toyed with the idea of a trial run for Ipswich to Helidon, around $10000 was a quote I vaguely recall.
Ok, but that would have to be for a diesel service which they don't want to run.

A regularly scheduled service which they should want to run connecting on to a service which would be terminating at Bowen Hills otherwise should not be so expensive.  Perhaps it is $460 for Roma St-Airport-Roma St.

ozbob

But it has been a great day:

The noise curfew details made public.  Yes there was one after 9pm, but killed 3 years ago.

The actual costs of the trains and the break even points (previously only known to the inner sanctum) now known.

Public revelation of problems between Airtrain and TTA (suspected but never confirmed).

Yes, quite enjoyed proceedings today .. what else is in store?  





Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

#Metro

#83
Quote
Yes, quite enjoyed proceedings today .. what else is in store?  

15 minute trains everywhere!!!  >:D  :fx
Now we can calculate break even points for the entire QR CityTrain network IMHO.
Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

somebody

Quote from: ozbob on October 18, 2010, 18:58:14 PM
Public revelation of problems between Airtrain and TTA (suspected but never confirmed).
It's also pretty likely that there are issues between TTA & BT.  Not sure about issues between TTA & Private Operators.

Jonno

Why not work together as a joint venture bewteen Airtrain and Translink to share the costs and the profits by driving up patronage, advertising, etc. make it a win-win situation for both rather than arguing. ????

somebody

Quote from: Jonno on October 18, 2010, 19:28:41 PM
Why not work together as a joint venture bewteen Airtrain and Translink to share the costs and the profits by driving up patronage, advertising, etc. make it a win-win situation for both rather than arguing. ????
I do not know, but it does not seem to be the way it is done in QLD.

somebody

Quote from: ozbob on October 18, 2010, 18:48:40 PM
The charge at $460 though is not dear IMHO.  
I think they are charging the same price for peak and off peak.  This doesn't reflect the cost of providing the service.  If they are charging the same price for Airport-Roma St as Airport-Bowen Hills, that is a further problem.  Off peak price should be roughly half the peak price, and perhaps a bit less, and if only to Bowen Hills, probably cut 1/3 off.  These discounts should compound too.

#Metro

QuoteI think they are charging the same price for peak and off peak.  This doesn't reflect the cost of providing the service.  If they are charging the same price for Airport-Roma St as Airport-Bowen Hills, that is a further problem.  Off peak price should be roughly half the peak price, and perhaps a bit less, and if only to Bowen Hills, probably cut 1/3 off.  These discounts should compound too.

I suspect that you are right too, somebody. It depends on whether QR has added a profit margin or are simply running services at break-even cost (seems unlikely).

It is actually better to use the train and charge something on it (and turn a small surplus) than it is to leave the train in the yard and get zero out of it. However is it also likely that labour costs in the evening cost more?
Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

somebody

Quote from: ozbob on October 18, 2010, 18:58:14 PM
Yes, quite enjoyed proceedings today .. what else is in store?  
Do we know when this week the Minister is meeting with Airtrain?  Are we thinking of putting out a further media release after that?

ozbob

Don't know, we will see what happens.  I am optimistic!   :D
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

ozbob

Published South West News 27th October 2010

Letter to the editor

No Airtrain after 8pm is a joke

Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

ozbob

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Marketing chief joins Airtrain chorus

QuoteMarketing chief joins Airtrain chorus
Tony Moore
October 27, 2010 - 6:44AM

Brisbane Marketing chief executive John Aitken wants to see more Airtrain services to the airport.

Calls for increased Airtrain services to cater for growing tourism demand have been boosted by another high-profile proponent.

Brisbane Marketing chief executive John Aitken said he had been in discussion with Airtrain management over the frequency of its trains to Brisbane Airport.

Airtrain is a private company providing trains to Brisbane Airport from early morning until 8pm. Airtrain chief executive Chris Basche earlier this month told brisbanetimes.com.au it was not viable to provide airport trains after 8pm and needs more than 40 passengers to break even.

Mr Aitken said although Airtrain was meeting 93 per cent of flight arrivals, there was still plenty of room for improvement.

"There is a certain time of the night when you would have to question catching a train," he said.

"It is late at night, it's dark and you don't know where you are going and the customers will tend to default by catching a taxi."

Brisbane Marketing research has found domestic and international tourism contributed $4.53 billion to the Brisbane economy each year.

Airtrain has responded to criticism that it does not meet the 30 to 40 flights which arrive in Brisbane after 8pm, by saying it is continually reviewing the situation.

Mr Aitken said Brisbane Marketing wanted a long-term future for Airtrain.

"I have had recent conversations with Airtrain and as far as I am concerned Airtrain operates as a commercial business and the first thing I want to do is make sure it is sustainable and is there for the long haul," he said.

Brisbane Airtrain chairman Mike Pelly earlier this month said Airtrain had added six extra services in the last 18 months and would look at extra services when passenger demand dictated.

Mr Aitken declined to answer when asked if the state government should take over Airtrain.

Airtrain say they have recently asked Queensland Rail to provide extra trains.
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

Jonno


I not sure this quote really highlights the key issue here.

QuoteMr Aitken said although Airtrain was meeting 93 per cent of flight arrivals, there was still plenty of room for improvement.

This makes the service sound like it only needs to be extended rather than frequency increased.  Using the above approach as long as there is a train arriving before the first flight and on leaving after the last flight, I can claim 100% coverage with 2 trains....provided I have very very patient passengers.

This quote also does not help but does show the general misperception by key business leaders.
Quote"It is late at night, it's dark and you don't know where you are going and the customers will tend to default by catching a taxi."

somebody

Well, further pressure on Airtrain and the Minister to make public details of any positive outcome from last week's planned meeting.

ozbob

Still no movement with the 'Airtrain' ....

The base issue well demonstrated, together with the restricted hours of operation ..

Brisbane International











Photographs R Dow 19th December 2010
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

#Metro

2 minutes between terminals. Actually it would be faster to take a taxi or catch the T-bus.

Waiting time is not factored in.

Average journey time: 15 minute wait + 2 minutes = 17 minutes
Maximum waiting time: 30 minute wait + 2 minutes = 32 minutes

The same with trips from the Airport to the CBD:
Average journey time: 15 minute wait + 20 minutes train trip = 35 minutes
Maximum waiting time: 30 minute wait + 20 minutes train trip = 50 minutes

Of course, I have assumed that 1 minute of in vehicle time is valued the same as 1 minute of waiting. I'll let others decide on whether they feel modeling and weighting trips is the right method, but either way, it seems uncompetitive:

Assume: waiting time = 1.5 times in vehicle time

The same with trips from the Airport to the CBD (Weighted):
Average journey time: 15 minute wait x 1.5 + 20 minutes train trip = percieved as a 42.5 minute trip
Maximum waiting time: 30 minute wait x 1.5 + 20 minutes train trip = percieved as a 65 minute trip

Once Airport Link opens, IMHO Airtrain is going to feel the heat!
Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

ozbob

 ::)  Shambles all round really .. BNE you are a joke ...

==========================

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

QuoteEmergency parking to ease airport bottleneck
Courtney Trenwith
December 23, 2010 - 4:00PM

The car park at DFO will be available for drivers waiting to pick up friends and relatives from Brisbane airport today and tomorrow.

Record traffic has caused Brisbane Airport Corporation to hastily create an improvised car park for motorists waiting for family and friends to arrive.

Management hopes the free waiting area at DFO - to open at 5am tomorrow - will alleviate severe congestion at the domestic terminal during the Christmas-New Year period.

Spokeswoman Rebecca Masci said last night's peak period was one of the worst traffic flows at the airport in its history.

"We came in this morning and tried to come up with a solution," she said.

"We're expecting the biggest passenger number we've ever had before this Christmas and the traffic already is showing signs [of] congestion.

"The precinct is suffering, the roads are struggling [and] we've still got a couple of days to Christmas - the biggest day [Christmas Eve] is [still] to come."

Motorists are being urged to wait at the DFO car park for a phone call from arriving passengers before driving to the pick-up/drop-off zone.

Mrs Masci said about 2000 cars could fit in the car park and they were not expected to clash too much with shoppers.

"The peak period for the domestic terminal is between 5-8am, DFO doesn't open until 10am," she said.

"DFO closes at 6pm so shoppers will be gone when the evening peak period starts at 7pm [until 10pm].

"They can wait in their car or go and get a coffee if they want to. The tavern is open across the road, as well. Then when they get the phone call they can drive down and pick up and then go."

Mrs Masci said others who wanted to park and go into the terminal had avoided the congestion by using the international terminal car park, which was not as busy, and catching the free shuttle bus between terminals.

Extra traffic controllers also had been arranged to help with the flow of cars and to stop some passengers from getting out of cars at the intersection at the start of the drop off/pick-up zone.

"While it seems like a good idea ... it's incredibly dangerous," Mrs Masci said.

"It's really unsafe for other motorists as well, obviously, for those people crossing those roads."

Other options:

Public transport also is being touted as a better option to avoid the airport precinct.

The Airtrain runs direct to both terminals from the city and the Gold Coast, with some suburban stops. Services operate every 15 minutes during peak times, although the Airtrain has been criticised for only operating between 5am and 8pm.

Mrs Masci recommended that those who do not live near a station dropped off or picked up passengers at stations near the airport, such as Eagle Junction.

Buses operate from the terminal to the CBD, Brisbane Port, Gold Coast and the Sunshine Coast.

A free bus also operates between Centro Toombul shopping centre and DFO.

For more details visit the Brisbane Airport website at http://bne.com.au/to-from-airport/transport-options#Bus%20Services
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

ozbob

Quotehttp://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4433.msg37552#msg37552

... Brisbane Airtrain chairman Mike Pelly earlier this month said Airtrain had added six extra services in the last 18 months and would look at extra services when passenger demand dictated ...

H E L L O ??
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

ozbob

#99
Sent to all outlets:

23 December 2010

Greetings,

Total traffic meltdown at BNE.  Doesn't surprise does it?   Shambles really.  There is a much under utilised railway to the airport.

About time that someone bit the bullet?

Best wishes
Robert

-->  http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/emergency-parking-to-ease-airport-bottleneck-20101223-196df.html


Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

===================================================


Media Release 17 September 2010 re-released 23 December 2010

SEQ: Airtrain needs an improved service

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters calls on the operator of Airtrain to improve its basic service level.

"Currently, the Airtrain cuts back to a 30 minute frequency between 9:58am and 3:28pm on a weekday, departing the Domestic Terminal.  There is a need for the 15 minute frequency to run right through between the AM and PM peaks and to also fill in the gap between 5:00pm and 5:28pm.  There is also a need to extend the operating hours to at least 11pm."

"There are only a handful of services required to plug the gaps now, with a view to give the service a consistent clock face timetable."

"It is obvious that a number of people who arrive at the airport would use the train but don't due to the unacceptable 29 minute wait that can be endured. Proper utilisation of the Airtrain would go a long way in relieving the constant road congestion and cost impacts on the community. In terms of comparable global rail airport services, Brisbane is presently a transport back-water (1)."

Reference:

1.   http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2010/09/take-me-to-airport-by-car.html

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

#Metro

Quotehttp://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/emergency-parking-to-ease-airport-bottleneck-20101223-196df.html

I wonder what the Airtrain patronage was like. What is the purpose of having profitable infrastructure if it doesn't really do what it is supposed to do- get loads of people to the airport and take pressure off the roads.

Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

Golliwog

Yes I do wonder what the patronage was like, and perhaps would it could be if the extra cost for the airport line leg was reduced. People quite clearly have a lower value of time than is expected. But I suppose that could be expected with rising interest rates, water and electricity bills. Budgets are a bit tight.
There is no silver bullet... but there is silver buckshot.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

ozbob

Fare cost is one issue, but if the service was there to use (frequent and hours of operation) it would be used a lot more than it is.

A constant feedback is that folks don't want to use it because they are not sure that they can do the return trip due to the limited hours of operation.

Now is the hour!   If they had  positioned services they would be making a motza now .. and those commuters would then be captured for the future ..

It is so much more convenient to go by rail to the gouge factory that is BNE.  Parking costs are obscene ... micro parking spots at that as well (so they can fit more in to maximise the gouge ...)
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

somebody

I guess all this answers my question about if the new roads will solve the problem with Airport Drive and make Airtrain less attractive!

#Metro

 I wonder how the "fast diamond" is coping? Is it even open?

;D
Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

ozbob

Interesting  the two tier fare structure,  typical Airport gouge for the express service, standard fare for the all stopper.

I think I would catch the all stopper  ;) heck only 10 minutes more ..

From the Railway Gazette click here!

Airport Rail Link reaches Seoul city centre

QuoteAirport Rail Link reaches Seoul city centre
05 January 2011

SOUTH KOREA: Phase II of the A'REX airport rail link was inaugurated on December 28 by Prime Minister Kim Hwang-Sik, marking the completion of a 10-year privately-financed project to build a 61 km line between Incheon International Airport and Seoul. Revenue services started the next day.

The 20·7 km extension runs from Gimpo Airport to Seoul Station, with three intermediate stops at Digital Media City, Hongik University and Gongdeok providing interchange to metro lines 6, 2 and 5 and KR's Gyeongui Line.

Construction of the 4·2 trillion won project started in 2001 and the 40·3 km first phase with six stations linking Incheon International Airport and Gimpo Airport opened on March 23 2007.

Although designed for eight-car trains, the route is currently worked by six-car Rotem EMUs. The 24 trainsets are configured in two designs to suit express and commuter operations. Express trains run every 30 min between 05.00 and 22.00 and take 43 min to complete the non-stop journey. Commuter trains depart every 6 min between 05.00 and midnight and stop at all 10 stations, taking 10 min longer. The express service fare is 13 300 while the stopping service is priced at 3 700 won.

According to the Ministry of Land, Transport & Maritime Affairs, KTX trains will be use the A'REX route by the end of 2012, providing passengers with a high speed through service from Busan to Incheon International Airport. KTX trains will be able to run at 180 km/h on the airport line.
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

Stillwater


One interesting aspect of the story is that Korea has a Department of Land, Transport and Maritime Affairs.  In other words, it places land use and planning in the same section of the bureaucracy as transport.  In Queensland, responsibility is split between agencies.  May be a lesson there.

ozbob

From the Brisbane mX 3rd August 2011 page 1

Joke's on them

Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

🡱 🡳