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Author Topic: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked  (Read 3971 times)

Online ozbob

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From the Courier Mail click here!

Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked

Quote
Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked

    * Robyn Ironside
    * From: The Courier-Mail
    * September 13, 2010 12:01AM

BRISBANE's major arterials are becoming almost as congested on weekends as they are on weekdays as traffic volumes soar on our traditional days off.

According to Transport and Main Roads data, weekend traffic grew at a faster rate than weekdays on some major roads in the last year and experts expect that trend to continue.

In the year to January, 75,840 vehicles on average used the Riverside Expressway on Saturdays and Sundays – up 9.5 per cent on the previous year.

In the same period weekday traffic increased 5 per cent to 91,334 vehicles a day.

The Bruce Highway at Kallangur and the Pacific Motorway at Loganholme also saw big rises in weekend traffic of more than 6 per cent, compared with 3 to 4 per cent growth on weekdays.

Griffith University urban planning researcher Matthew Burke said the surge in weekend traffic could be attributed to increased leisure travel, Sunday trading, shift work and the 24-hour infrastructure build.

"There are significant volumes travelling between Brisbane and the Gold and Sunshine Coasts and there really is a peak hour on Sunday afternoon and evening for people travelling between those centres," Dr Burke said.

"Not that that's all the traffic in the network. There's plenty of traffic on our urban arterials on weekends and that's having its own implications."

He said Brisbane was likely to see more moves to extend clearway zones to Saturdays and Sundays.

"There's a dispute at the moment in Fortitude Valley about a proposal to remove street parking," Dr Burke said.

"Ann St in particular clogs up on the weekend but the traders don't want to give up the carparks to another clearway."

On some roads, the difference between weekend and weekday loads is minimal, including Gympie Rd at Chermside, Moggill Rd at Kenmore and the Gateway Motorway at Bracken Ridge.

John Wikman, from peak motoring body RACQ, said drivers were now experiencing congestion at the same intersections on weekends as they did on weekdays, even in the "slower period" of 10am to 2pm.

Weekend trips also tended to be "dispersed across the network" and not as suitable for public transport, he said.

"Unfortunately those wishing to travel across the Brisbane River on the weekend are still having to go through, or near, the CBD and so traffic volumes are still relatively high," said Mr Wikman.

All the more reason for frequency increases in public transport at weekends and an improved fare structure ...
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Offline #Metro

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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2010, 07:56:16 AM »

Quote
On some roads, the difference between weekend and weekday loads is minimal, including Gympie Rd at Chermside, Moggill Rd at Kenmore and the Gateway Motorway at Bracken Ridge.

John Wikman, from peak motoring body RACQ, said drivers were now experiencing congestion at the same intersections on weekends as they did on weekdays, even in the "slower period" of 10am to 2pm.

Weekend trips also tended to be "dispersed across the network" and not as suitable for public transport, he said.


"Unfortunately those wishing to travel across the Brisbane River on the weekend are still having to go through, or near, the CBD and so traffic volumes are still relatively high," said Mr Wikman.

 :pr Nonsense! With a feeder bus and transfer network, you can get from anywhere to anywhere within a single transfer off the trunk. Fix up 599/598 and get those feeder buses redesigned so they do cross town as well as feed and get them working on weekends!

Road traffic is like a gas- it will fill any and all available space given to it. Amazing proof given that weekend and weekday traffic levels on certain arterial are almost identical between weekday/weekend. They already have Clem 7 and the Go-Between bridge, this is a pitch for more roads and TransApex!
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STB

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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2010, 08:35:36 AM »
Just as a sidenote I have done the 598/599 to get to Chermside via Murrarie on a few occassions and discovered it's actually still quicker to travel into the city and then to transfer onto a 330/340 rather than getting the 598/599.

I don't think it's specifically to do with the suggested cross town/feeder network TramTram in particular, as if it were it'd be operating during the week as well, but more to do with frequency of public transport on weekends.

Offline #Metro

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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2010, 08:55:06 AM »
Quote
I don't think it's specifically to do with the suggested cross town/feeder network TramTram in particular, as if it were it'd be operating during the week as well, but more to do with frequency of public transport on weekends.

It's both. There is a skeletal feeder to rail system around, but a very poor option given the service levels on them the moment and their design. Greatly reduced service on Sat, most have nothing on Sunday/weekends.

599/598 on has the following 'frequency profile':

Weekdays: every half hour until last service departing Chermside at 6:25 pm/6:39 pm
Saturday: hourly, until about 6:16/6:41 pm
Sunday: Nothing

With a frequency profile like that, average waiting times are 15 minutes on a weekday, 30 minutes on a weekend, and no service on a Sunday. It is just not competitive with the car in terms of speed or frequency. And that's just the time one hangs around the bus stop waiting for it- I haven't factored in the in-vehicle time yet!

Melbourne's smartbus shows that there is demand for radial, cross town and non-CBD trips. There are a number of these routes now. Perth has a mirror image of 599/598 with their 99/98 circle route bus which carries 100 000 passengers a week- which I estimate over a year to be transporting 5.2 million trips, which is more than our most busiest bus route, 199.

http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/UsingTransperth/Highfrequencybusservices/tabid/143/Default.aspx

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Offline #Metro

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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2010, 08:58:15 AM »
Off the TransPerth website:
http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/UsingTransperth/Highfrequencybusservices/tabid/143/Default.aspx

Quote
Since its introduction in 1999, more people are catching the CircleRoute.

And no wonder - with services every 15 minutes on weekdays and every 30 minutes on weeknights and weekends, it’s an easy and comfortable way to get around to Perth shopping centres, universities, schools and colleges.

The CircleRoute has its own unique zone boundaries. The most you will pay for a journey on the CircleRoute is a 2-zone fare no matter how many zones you pass through on your way around the circle. Please refer to the CircleRoute timetable to find out where the zone boundaries are located on the CircleRoute.

Click here to download the CircleRoute timetables.
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colinw

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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2010, 10:19:11 AM »
Yet another article showing that Brisbane transport planning hasn't yet made it out of the dark ages.

Mind you, to read the feedback posted against that article, a lot of people (bar a few lonely voices which I recognise as RailBOT regulars) just seem to want a dirty great freeway all to themselves.

Maybe the backward planning in this state is representative of the majority viewpoint?  If that is the case, then RailBOT's task is bigger than we have imagined, not just policy change, but mass cultural change.

« Last Edit: September 13, 2010, 10:21:11 AM by colinw »

somebody

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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2010, 11:04:04 AM »
Just as a sidenote I have done the 598/599 to get to Chermside via Murrarie on a few occassions and discovered it's actually still quicker to travel into the city and then to transfer onto a 330/340 rather than getting the 598/599.
Sorry, not sure where you are coming from.  Carindale?  From Cannon Hill the Great Circle is better, mostly because Cannon Hill has poor PT, or at least poor bus options.

Maybe the backward planning in this state is representative of the majority viewpoint?  If that is the case, then RailBOT's task is bigger than we have imagined, not just policy change, but mass cultural change.
I think that it is the majority viewpoint, regretably.

Offline Golliwog

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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2010, 11:55:40 AM »
I think STB is more on track with what the problem is. The issue with travel being more dispersed is that they aren't trying to get the the city, they'd be trying to get to places like Indooroopilly or Chermside where theres shops or entertainment. Getting to there is all good if you live on say the Gympie Rd or Ipswich line or Moggill Rd/ Coro Drive corridors as well as on parts of the GCL route, but the problem is even with the traffic its still faster and more importantly easier to just hop in the car and drive. Feeder routes aren't whats needed to solve this, what needs to be done for this to change is to go away from the Wheel and spoke network and go for a spider web or grid (although the grid network is all but impossible courtesy of the river).
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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2010, 12:16:02 PM »
I'd suggest passenger types are quite different to weekends than weekdays.  I can see that beyond the issue of frequency, it's easier to take the car on the weekends as you would do you shopping, or going on a family outing and this it's probably more neccessary to use the car even if public transport was running at quite a high frequency in most areas as it's just simply more difficult to do these activities without the car, compared with simply trying to get to and from work/school/university which public transport does indeed do a good job (route wise) with.

Just as a sidenote I have done the 598/599 to get to Chermside via Murrarie on a few occassions and discovered it's actually still quicker to travel into the city and then to transfer onto a 330/340 rather than getting the 598/599.
Sorry, not sure where you are coming from.  Carindale?  From Cannon Hill the Great Circle is better, mostly because Cannon Hill has poor PT, or at least poor bus options.


Sorry, I was talking about myself travelling from Birkdale to Chermside.  In the past I've found it much easier and quicker to travel via the city than via the GCL at Murrarie based on my own personal experience with it.

Online ozbob

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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2010, 12:46:24 PM »
Public transport, where services exist on weekends is often very well patronised, particularly rail.  There is no doubt that better overall frequency and bus support will endear more people out of cars. After all, this is the Governments intent.  Time rhetoric was supported with actions. 

We need a real culture change, paradigm shift, sea-change, enlightenment, 'eureka moment' , what ever.  Let's just do it ..
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somebody

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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2010, 01:49:26 PM »
Sorry, I was talking about myself travelling from Birkdale to Chermside.  In the past I've found it much easier and quicker to travel via the city than via the GCL at Murrarie based on my own personal experience with it.
Heading inbound on either the train or the 250, I'd be inclined to go via the CBD rather than change for the Great Circle, unless you are quite sure the 598 is coming soon.  Heading towards Birkdale, if the 599 was coming quite soon I could see using that, but otherwise I think I'd change at Roma St for the train.

Offline #Metro

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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2010, 01:55:52 PM »
Quote
I'd suggest passenger types are quite different to weekends than weekdays.  I can see that beyond the issue of frequency, it's easier to take the car on the weekends as you would do you shopping, or going on a family outing and this it's probably more neccessary to use the car even if public transport was running at quite a high frequency in most areas as it's just simply more difficult to do these activities without the car, compared with simply trying to get to and from work/school/university which public transport does indeed do a good job (route wise) with.

The 599/598 needs to be re-designed and overhauled. It links up with most major shopping centres, so could be marketed as such. I did my shopping at chermside recently, no problem getting home with stuff etc. Perth is way ahead on these kinds of things, their route has far higher frequency and far higher patronage as well. Brisbane seems content to just make self-justifying excuses after excuses rather than admit there is a problem and fix it.
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Offline #Metro

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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2010, 02:06:57 PM »
Quote
I think STB is more on track with what the problem is. The issue with travel being more dispersed is that they aren't trying to get the the city, they'd be trying to get to places like Indooroopilly or Chermside where theres shops or entertainment. Getting to there is all good if you live on say the Gympie Rd or Ipswich line or Moggill Rd/ Coro Drive corridors as well as on parts of the GCL route, but the problem is even with the traffic its still faster and more importantly easier to just hop in the car and drive.

Feeder routes aren't whats needed to solve this, what needs to be done for this to change is to go away from the Wheel and spoke network and go for a spider web or grid (although the grid network is all but impossible courtesy of the river).

I don't think "dispersion" is the issue. The main issue is that services were not put on, therefore people could not catch them because they never got a chance to. Melbourne and Perth's outer suburbs are dispersed, but it hasn't stopped SmartBus* or the Perth CircleRoutes from gaining respectable patronage to high patronage despite not going anywhere near the CBD.

I also wonder if there has ever been proper analysis of what transport demand on weekends in Brisbane actually is, or whether this has never ever been done due to the focus on public transport being "for the 9-5 commuter" to the exclusion of all other trip categories and all other times.

Feeder bus routes can be weaved into a grid or mesh, Toronto has something like this
http://urbanist.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83454714d69e20133f348e9b3970b-popup and the SmartBus routes double up as both cross-town and feeder services in one. 599/598 does this to some extent as well with the rail stations, but it just isn't frequent enough or marketed well enough for people to bother.

* Most SmartBuses (BRT) do not go to the CBD. The newer ones serving IIRC Doncaster area were introduced recently and these do go to the CBD.
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Offline #Metro

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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2010, 02:30:03 PM »
Hmm. Why do I suspect the next thing the RACQ will champion is that "orbital motorway" to "relieve" this weekend congestion...   ;)
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somebody

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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2010, 02:42:53 PM »
The 599/598 needs to be re-designed and overhauled. It links up with most major shopping centres, so could be marketed as such. I did my shopping at chermside recently, no problem getting home with stuff etc. Perth is way ahead on these kinds of things, their route has far higher frequency and far higher patronage as well. Brisbane seems content to just make self-justifying excuses after excuses rather than admit there is a problem and fix it.
Yeah, probably about the 598/599.  Do you think more frequency along the same route, or a different route?

I've noticed the attitude of "self defence of incompetence" from TL too.

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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2010, 02:52:31 PM »
Quote
Yeah, probably about the 598/599.  Do you think more frequency along the same route, or a different route?

I've noticed the attitude of "self defence of incompetence" from TL too.

A slight tweak here and there would help. Simple things like allowing the 599/598 to enter the Chermside bus interchange to actually allow interchange ( ??? !!!) would help! Slight alterations to run faster (wider space between stops), perhaps add DFO Jindalle and DFO Brisbane Airport to the mix as well. Most people will do the 1/2 circle only.

Great Circle line or Great Shopping Line?  :-c

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Offline #Metro

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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2010, 03:11:37 PM »
Quote
Christine of Brisbane  Posted at 7:45 AM Today

I'm like the many above who would love a decent public transport system and be able to leave the car in the garage for most weekend trips. Unfortunately our politicians have been making public transport plans for years, while they urgently build more roads.

Comment 26 of 97


Quote
Peter of OZ  Posted at 8:24 AM Today

8 km from the city centre and buses stop on Saturday at noon , No train in our suburb , cabs are too frightening and unreliable what else could you expect

Comment 39 of 97

Quote
Bruce of Brisbane  Posted at 8:30 AM Today

So, does that now show the case to increase public transport on weekends? I'd leave the car at home more if my bus actually ran at all on a Sunday! Bloody stupid politicians - you can't increase population without increasing transport, which includes road, rail and public transport.

Comment 40 of 97

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/features/sunday-drivers-take-to-the-road-as-city-becomes-gridlocked/comments-e6freoz6-1225919787079

A selection of replies- very revealing...
And no, none of the above comments are mine.
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Offline Golliwog

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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2010, 03:40:48 PM »
I wasn't saying that where people are coming from is dispersed. Where they are getting to is. Feeder buses would feed to the trunk routes (Rail and BUZ) But even once they get to those they only go to and from the city which isn't particularly useful if they are trying to get to a particular shop or friends house. For example from my house to my grandfathers on a sunday you would have to walk/drive/ride to FG station catch the train to Roma St then catch the 385 back out to the Gap. Having a feeder bus for that trip isn't any incentive to use it when to drive to his house is only about double what it is to drive to the station.
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somebody

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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2010, 04:12:02 PM »
I'm guessing that is because there is neither a 362 or a Great Circle service on a Sunday?

Offline Golliwog

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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2010, 04:16:13 PM »
Basically. Even if the GCL was running, that doesn't come out to Keperra/FG so I would have to change at Mitchelton then again at Ashgrove/Bardon. It would be easier (IMO, anyway) to just change in the city.
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Offline #Metro

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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2010, 04:26:37 PM »
Quote
For example from my house to my grandfathers on a sunday you would have to walk/drive/ride to FG station catch the train to Roma St then catch the 385 back out to the Gap. Having a feeder bus for that trip isn't any incentive to use it when to drive to his house is only about double what it is to drive to the station.

Yes, I agree; For something like this, you need good frequency, and the frequency is terrible on the weekends.
Bicycle is the last 'active transport' or maybe taxi but, yes, for this one it looks like Car, Car, Car.

There is a feeder bus route which connects these places, the 362, which travels from Michelton & Keperra stations to The Gap. It links FG Rail with the 385 BUZ.

Unfortunately, it has the following "frequency profile":

Weekdays: Hourly beginning 7:05 am and then last service at 4:56 pm
(Way to go!!! You can't even get home on this one!)
average waiting time = 30 minutes (may as well walk, its probably faster)

Saturday: Two hourly, beginning 8:37 am and then cutting out at 2:37 pm.
average waiting time = 1 hour (nobody is going to bother to transfer to something like this)

Sunday:
Nothing! No service.

If patronage is low, this could possibly be dealt with by increasing the frequency, travelsmart program in that area and making the route longer to connect more places and connect more people (the last suggestion is employed by SmartBus). Possibly linking Toowong and/or Chermside?

Transfer waiting times are small for the first few services, but then increase to 15 minutes or so after that-- more time lost.
6-7 minutes should be OK.

Generally most routes like this probably need a look at to see how they can be made into something people will want to use.
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Offline #Metro

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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2010, 04:34:06 PM »
Crazy idea: extend BUZ 385 up to Ferny Grove Railway station. It will then have the feeder bus function, high frequency and cross-town (for that extended bit at least) all in one.

It would take just 10 minutes to go from FG to The Gap on this extended 385.
Alternatively another one of the 38X services could be extended to Ferny Grove Station?

The train would still be faster, but it would improve connectivity in this area...
 ???
« Last Edit: September 13, 2010, 04:41:32 PM by tramtrain »
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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2010, 04:48:37 PM »
Crazy idea: extend BUZ 385 up to Ferny Grove Railway station. It will then have the feeder bus function, high frequency and cross-town (for that extended bit at least) all in one.
Must agree with your self-evaluation.  You aren't the first one to have this suggestion though.  What about those who live on Waterworks Rd beyond Settlement Rd?

Offline Golliwog

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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2010, 04:53:58 PM »
The 362 is more of a milk run than a connector route. And I virtually never use it due to it poor service frequency and start/finish times. Something I thought of was if they were willing to make a whole new route was to go FG station, Samford Rd, Settlement Rd, straight across Waterworks Rd (interchange point for 38X routes), Payne Rd, Gap Creek Rd over to Moggill Rd at Kenmore to interchange with the 444. Not sure about the demand for this though, but just a bit of a brain fart idea. Could go into Indro for increased interchange. If they didn't want to make a totally new route they could just extend one of the routes that currently terminate at FG (367/397/398/399).

Have thought about the suggested 385 extension before but came to the same conclusion re: service past Settlement Rd. The 380 currently goes down Settlement and turns down Kaloma St to loop back to Waterworks Rd, the loop via Kaloma could be reversed so continue down Waterworks past Settlement and once the bus gets to Settlement from Kaloma it could then continue on to FG. But again, not the most direct route.
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Offline #Metro

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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2010, 05:07:35 PM »
Were you saying that I'm crazy  :P or the crazy idea is not so crazy!  :P
LOL!

Yes, there is quite a few houses out along Settlement Road (a no PT Zone), further up there are more houses and what
looks like new development in Keperra where the 362 goes. The bus would have to divert via Mungarie Street, Cobalt Street and then on to Samford Rd and then to Ferny Grove Station.

Just while looking at Google Maps, Unfortunately for many areas in Ferny Grove, they are in developments with the anti-public transport cul-de-sac design which make it impossible if not extremely difficult to get buses around. I get offended when I see this- car dependency literally designed into the suburbs. Although maxi taxi feeders could be used in this situation.
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STB

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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2010, 05:14:55 PM »
Golliwog is right, the 362 is a crosstown route, not technically a feeder.  How do I know that?  I met the man who created that route, the 'Grandfather' of the modern Brisbane Transport network (except the western area, done by a different planner).  He's a very smart man and I managed to learn a lot from him, who's got 25+yrs experience in PT planning and development.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2010, 05:17:15 PM by STB »

somebody

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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2010, 05:17:44 PM »
Were you saying that I'm crazy  :P or the crazy idea is not so crazy!  :P
I was saying the crazy idea is crazy.

With the 380, it is a possibility to do as Golliwog suggests.

STB

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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2010, 05:18:56 PM »
Why not the 390 or the 399 rather than the 380 which really should stay in The Gap area IMO.

Offline Golliwog

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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2010, 05:22:37 PM »
Is the new development you speak of the big rectangular block on Settlement Rd opposite Mungarie St? If so thats not residential, they have approval to double the size of the Great Western Shopping center. What WILL be residential however is the entire rest of that hill up to the ridge line backing onto the Enogerra Army base there. And I disagree with the route via Cobalt St. IMO skipping the Great Western is a bad idea as I can see this shopping center being a future hub. I think the 362 should retain its current route though and remain as a feeder type milk run. Its not hard to walk to either Settlement or Samford Rd's from most of the part of Keperra served by the Mungarie, Cobalt St routing. Plus they can change at the Great Western.

Yes, I can see the 362 as a useful route, however it is very much hampered in its effectiveness by its poor frequency and also its lack of directness/supporting routes.

Yes if you were going for an awesome increase in service I would pick the 399 to go from Samford through to the Gap or even Kenmore/Indooroopilly. Although the 390 being extended along Samford Rd to the GW then over to the Gap would also be of great benefit. Do both anyone? ;)
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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2010, 05:26:40 PM »
Why not the 390 or the 399 rather than the 380 which really should stay in The Gap area IMO.
399 only runs twice in the morning and twice in the evening.

390 - that should be extended elsewhere rather than becoming a partly cross town route, IMHO.

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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2010, 05:27:06 PM »


Hmm. It's only a short section that has hardly any houses, and then you are back into suburbia and the 362 route.
So I don't think the idea is too blue sky. It could work with another route as suggested, it just won't work without the frequency and the BUZ provides that.

Quote
Golliwog is right, the 362 is a crosstown route, not technically a feeder.  How do I know that?  I met the man who created that route, the 'Grandfather' of the modern Brisbane Transport network (except the western area, done by a different planner).  He's a very smart man and I managed to learn a lot from him, who's got 25+yrs experience in PT planning and development.

Oh wow STB; any explanation for the frequency though or why there is a skeleton/vestiges of feeder/cross town services to rail?
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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2010, 05:29:45 PM »
There is no reason why the 399's frequency could be increased from a simple peak service to an all day service.  I reckon the Samford residents would be happy with that.  In fact, that routing that TramTram has given is actually quite good!  It could rationalise route 362 by doing that.  Although you'd still need to duck into that shopping centre.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2010, 05:31:49 PM by STB »

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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2010, 05:35:46 PM »
Quote
Is the new development you speak of the big rectangular block on Settlement Rd opposite Mungarie St? If so thats not residential, they have approval to double the size of the Great Western Shopping center. What WILL be residential however is the entire rest of that hill up to the ridge line backing onto the Enogerra Army base there. And I disagree with the route via Cobalt St. IMO skipping the Great Western is a bad idea as I can see this shopping center being a future hub.

Actually I was talking about the residences near "Kindlan Park place" where the 362 goes. I had no idea that area where the soil is all removed was a shopping centre! It just looked like some warehouse from Google Maps-- this changes everything. So yes, make it go via the shops!!!

Quote
399 only runs twice in the morning and twice in the evening.
  :'(
Quote
I think the 362 should retain its current route though and remain as a feeder type milk run. Its not hard to walk to either Settlement or Samford Rd's from most of the part of Keperra served by the Mungarie, Cobalt St routing. Plus they can change at the Great Western.

Yes, I can see the 362 as a useful route, however it is very much hampered in its effectiveness by its poor frequency and also its lack of directness/supporting routes.

I don't know about milk runs-- I don't think they are very useful. It comes back to the network design hinted at in the 2031 Connecting SEQ plan. Its great to have all these direct routes, but then this often leads to a large network of low frequency, low quality routes (due to funding the other direct buses to travel all the way into the CBD) that result in extremely poor image and routes that hardly anyone knows about.
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Offline Golliwog

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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2010, 05:40:32 PM »
Oh, in that case the "new" development you speak of was built in the late 80's.
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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2010, 05:42:18 PM »
Quote
Yes if you were going for an awesome increase in service I would pick the 399 to go from Samford through to the Gap or even Kenmore/Indooroopilly. Although the 390 being extended along Samford Rd to the GW then over to the Gap would also be of great benefit. Do both anyone? Wink

This is probably the best compromise IMHO. 390 extension sounds very good actually (or even a bus that just does this linked bit). Links Brookside shops with Ferny Grove and the Gap plus Rail and BUZ and the GW Shops.
Quote
There is no reason why the 399's frequency could be increased from a simple peak service to an all day service.  I reckon the Samford residents would be happy with that.  In fact, that routing that TramTram has given is actually quite good!  It could rationalise route 362 by doing that.  Although you'd still need to duck into that shopping centre.

The problem I see here is not just frequency. It is the anti-public transport design of the suburbs. If that cluster of houses had a better road geometry it might have been possible to plan a route to serve both that pocket and the shopping centre. Instead there is no connection (but a nice cul-de-sac at Kidman Pl).
« Last Edit: September 13, 2010, 05:46:23 PM by tramtrain »
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Offline #Metro

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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2010, 05:43:40 PM »
Quote
Oh, in that case the "new" development you speak of was built in the late 80's.

Ok, its relatively recent in housing terms. Many people in Brisbane are living in 1940's and 1960's homes!!!
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Offline Golliwog

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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2010, 05:49:52 PM »
I remember that little estate based around Kidman Place going in. It used to be a drive in movie theatre hence the lack of through streets. All the streets around there with actor/actress names were built late 90's, early 00's although there is a pedestrian path through from Willis Place to Burnett St. Theres also a pedestrian path between Marble and Duntreath streets about halfway up, it comes out almost opposite Lapilli St.

Lol, well from my POV it isn't that old, it only a little bit older than me :P
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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2010, 06:20:17 PM »
Aha! So it's actually Nicole Kidman place...  :P
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Offline Golliwog

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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2010, 10:46:10 PM »
Amusing names, but better than the estate I heard about where the streets are named after Sesame Street characters. "How do we get to your house?" "Oh, you turn left onto Big Bird, then drive past Ernie street and go up Bert, the finally turn right into Grover Close" " ???"
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Re: Article: Sunday drivers take to the road as city becomes gridlocked
« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2010, 10:54:57 PM »
Are you feeling hungry Golliwog?
Try out Fruitgrove in Logan:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Fruitgrove&sll=-27.635331,153.149872&sspn=0.0311,0.063858&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Fruitgrove,+Queensland,+Australia&ll=-27.597618,153.081275&spn=0.003889,0.007982&t=h&z=17

Pine St
Orange St
Pear St
Plum St
Lemon St
Nectarine St
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