Train paths Richlands - Darra - Corinda

[ozbob]

Bit of mystery as to what is going to happen here.

Darra



Darra Oxley



Corinda

[ozbob]

This helps to make a bit more sense:

[ozbob]

Only guessing here ...

UP Richlands

Corinda platform 2

Down Sub  

Platform 1 Oxley

Cross to up sub at Sussanah street

Platform 1 Darra

Thence to branch

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DOWN Ex Richlands

Platform 2 Darra

Cross to up main, then cross to down main ?

Platform 3 Oxley

Platform 5 Corinda

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UP and DOWN Ipswich Redbank main up and down

Corinda platforms 4 and 5, Oxley 2 and 3, and Darra 3 and 4.

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All these guesses ignores the bi-directional capabilities of course.  

================

Freight

Down crosses onto the main UP and thence onto the UP sub loop, through Darra platform one road and continues on the UP sub to Corinda.  UP on the UP sub to the UP sub loop and then onto the main line.

[somebody]

Thanks for that ozbob, so you can run inbound from Richlands through Oxley #2.  Must have missed that crossover.  Yet if you do so you still must conflict with outbound trains from Corinda #2 to access the "down sub".

If you have a look in nearmap at darra you should see what I am referring to though.  You must take the Up Sub loop if you use Darra #1.  At least as far as I can see.  Perhaps a crossover will be installed, but why wouldn't it have been done that way before if it was going to be?

I'm still not sure why the crossovers aren't adjacent to the stations, so that the trains are going slowly anyway and they don't impact on journey times.

[ozbob]

It is very tricky ...  there are many other options but I think that would be the basic paths.

[somebody]

It is very tricky ...  there are many other options but I think that would be the basic paths.

Are you sure Darra #1 can access Richlands?  Nearmap shows the opposite.

[ozbob]

Yes, have a look here --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=639.msg33766#msg33766  Platform one Darra is the Richlands platform.

As I posted there I have found the odd inconsistency with near map.  It is something to do with how they join photographs.  If you have a look at this near map photo it has the OHT supports in the middle of the track ...

See --> http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-27.569865,152.943831&z=19&t=k&nmd=20100821

[david]

Are you sure Darra #1 can access Richlands?  Nearmap shows the opposite.

I can also confirm that this is true.

I have a feeling that this is how the Corinda to Darra section will operate once Richlands comes online (utilising the full bi-di capacity)

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AM Peak

1) Ipswich and Richlands trains (ex Corinda) - Down Sub (Corinda P2) → Oxley P1 → Cross to Up Sub → Darra P1

2) Richlands to City (ex Darra) - Darra P2 → Down Sub → Cross to Up Main → Oxley P2 → Corinda P4 → Cross to Down Sub → Sherwood P2

3) Ipswich to City (ex Darra) - Darra P4 → Down Main → Oxley P3 → Corinda P5

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Off Peak

1) Ipswich and Richlands trains (ex Corinda) - Down Sub (Corinda P2) → Oxley P1 → Cross to Up Sub → Darra P1

2) Richlands to City (ex Darra) - Darra P2 → Down Sub → Cross to Down Main → Oxley P3 → Corinda P5 → Cross to Down Sub → Sherwood P2

3) Ipswich to City (ex Darra) - Darra P4 → Down Main → Oxley P3 → Corinda P5 → Cross to Down Sub → Sherwood P2

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The AM and Off Peak setups remove all conflicting paths. PM peak, however, would be a different story. Below is the best I could think of to minimise conflicting paths.

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PM Peak

1) Ipswich express trains (ex Corinda) - Corinda P4 → Up Main → Oxley P2 → Darra P4

2) Ipswich and Richlands all-stations trains (ex Corinda) - Down Sub (Corinda P2) → Oxley P1 → Cross to Up Sub → Darra P1

3) Richlands to City (ex Darra) - Darra P2 → Down Sub → Cross to Down Main → Oxley P3 → Corinda P5 → Cross to Down Sub → Sherwood P2

4) Ipswich to City (ex Darra) - Darra P4 → Down Main → Oxley P3 → Corinda P5 → Cross to Down Sub → Sherwood P2

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The main conflict that would be present here is the crossing over of the Richlands-City train at Darra from Down Sub to Down Main. However, I don't envisage too many Ipswich express services operating on the Up Main, so this won't be too much of a problem.

The other obvious conflict is at the crossovers before Sherwood. This would easily be rectified with all inbound services using Down Main (Platform 4 Road from Sherwood to Milton). However, I'm not sure whether this will happen, hence why I have put down the inbound trains using the Down Sub.

Sorry I can't provide a picture of what I mean (hopefully you can match what I've said with ozbob's drawings)

[ozbob]

Thanks David, good comments.  All this further highlights the absurdity of not electrifying the UP sub all the way and integrating it in properly. The ICRCS suggested would be needed by 2015 anyway ...

[somebody]

Yes, I can see what david was saying now.  I think it's Darra P3 (not P4) to Ipswich in the PM though.

To be honest, I think some conflicting moves weren't easy to avoid.  You would need either one more flyover, or to reverse the direction of the #2 and #3 roads Sherwood-Milton, which would have been expensive.

[david]

Yes...it was supposed to be Darra P3 that the Ipswich expresses use in PM Peak - whoops 

I also agree that an Up-Up-Down-Down system would need to be implemented in order to reduce conflicts. It's something that is mentioned in Connecting SEQ 2031.

[brismike]

Sounds like you guys are all talking some kind of secret code lol.  Up, down, Up Up, Down Down, How about sideways lol

[cartoonbirdhaus]

brismike, in a Queensland rail context, Up means the direction from Bowen Hills toward Roma St, whilst Down's the reverse direction. That's regardless of whether a train's inbound or outbound. For example, a service to Ipswich or Cleveland is an Up train, whilst one to Doomben or Nambour is a Down train.

[brismike]

Yep I knew that . . I was just messing with the boys .. 

[mufreight]

The western line is an exception with trains travelling towards Ipswich designated as UP trains while those trains travelling away from Ipswich being Down trains, a carry over from when the first line from Ipswich to Biggs Camp, now Grandchester was built.

[cartoonbirdhaus]

Out of curiosity, how is that an exception? A train to Ipswich travels Fortitude Valley -> Central -> Roma St etc, just like an Up train on the Beenleigh and Cleveland lines, for instance.

[mufreight]

On the lines north and south from Brisbane the normal railway practice of trains being designated as travelling in the down direction, trains travelling towards Brisbane are designated as up trains.
On the western line from Brisbane trains are designated as UP trains when travelling towards Ipswich from Brisbane and as DOWN trains when travelling towards Brisbane as a carry over from the times when Ipswich was the starting point for trains on the line from Ipswich to Bigges Camp.

[longboi]

Same applies for the Beenleigh/GC and Cleveland lines. Heading south is up, north is down.

Only in QLD 

[mufreight]

Although I was always under the impression that trains operating from South Brisbane on the Cleveland and Southport/Tweed Heads lines were designated as Down trains travelling from South Brisbane and Up traind when travelling away from South Brisbane.
If as Nikko says in his post the reverse is true then the precedent would have been set for the southside lines when the line from Ipswich was built to Brisbane being at that time unable to cross the river the line ran via Corinda, Yeroongpilly, Fairfield, Dutton Park Woolloongabba and through to  the South Brisbane wharves and a station on the river bank just to the east of the Victoria Bridge.
A line was later built to and the present station provided at South Brisbane as lines were built towards Cleveland, Southport and Tweed Heads. 

[longboi]

Spot on. Ipswich started as the centre of the rail network and our track designations are a remnant of that.

[cartoonbirdhaus]

When we had 2000 class railmotors doing shuttles between Ipswich and Helidon, would such a train to Ipswich have been counted as up or down?

[mufreight]

Down to Helidon, Up to Ipswich

[ButFli]

Down to Helidon, Up to Ipswich

No. QR does not operate like other railways where there is one designated point so that trains traveling towards it will be up trains and trains traveling away will be down trains. In Queensland, the up direction is South and West the down direction is East and North.

A train from Roma St to Ipswich is an up train. That train is still an up train to Helidon and is still an up train all the way to to Charleville (and beyond).

There are a few junctions on the network where a train might change from up to down or vice versa but it is not because any of those places have been designated as a central point.