Go Card Feedback - tell us of your Go Card experiences!!

[haakon]

Well as of the end of the week I'm going back to monthly tickets. The last straw was when I was charged $9.60 for a trip that should have been $5.

I transfered and the clock on the second bus was an hour ahead so it started a new trip and when I tagged of it charged me $5 for a one zones worth of travel!

Also the issue I mentioned last month about my bus stop missing from the gps database. Still not fixed 

[Huggies]

I had the same issues yesterday Haakon.

I noted the following from Yesterday.

09-Apr-08 04:04:46 PM     Touch On Transfer     Adelaide St at City Hall (Stop 18) [BT000018]
09-Apr-08 04:27:50 PM     Touch On     'Cultural Centre' Busway Station IB [BT010802]
09-Apr-08 04:30:05 PM     Touch Off     Adelaide St f/s George St (Stop 17) [BT000017]     -2.30     *
09-Apr-08 04:30:49 PM     Touch Off     Collins Street - 28 [BT011165]     -2.70     *

It must have been a very fast trip from Adelaide St to Collins Street in Clayfield.

09-Apr-08 05:57:01 PM     Touch On Transfer     South East Busway AT South Bank Bus Station [8219]
09-Apr-08 06:06:17 PM     Touch On     Stuckey Street - 28/2 [BT011128]
09-Apr-08 06:08:30 PM     Touch Off     Eagle Junction Station - 28/1 [BT011116]     -2.30     *
09-Apr-08 06:44:18 PM     Touch Off     Finucane Rd F/S Elizabeth Dr [11183]     -0.70     *

I don't know how I could possibly Touch On at Stuckey St, Clayfield when I was already on Route 250.

Looks like some B.T. Buses have their clocks out of sync with the system. Oh well I guess a call to TransStink is on the cards later today.

[haakon]

Looks like some B.T. Buses have their clocks out of sync with the system. Oh well I guess a call to TransStink is on the cards later today.

It was both Veolia buses for me. However what I don't get is how the clocks can be out. Every bus has a GPS unit which will supply accurate clock data (UTC, seconds from epoch format), if Cubic aren't using that they are loopy. If they are I can only assume they are applying a timezone to it and accidentally configured some as EST+10 (Syd DST) not EST+10 (Brisbane no DST). If that is the case it smacks of badly thought out programming since all the tag on/ tag off rules are based on relative difference in time it would have been wiser to stick with seconds from epoch for the calculations and then translating it to local time when displaying the transactions on the website etc.

[Huggies]

Looks like some B.T. Buses have their clocks out of sync with the system. Oh well I guess a call to TransStink is on the cards later today.

It was both Veolia buses for me. However what I don't get is how the clocks can be out. Every bus has a GPS unit which will supply accurate clock data (UTC, seconds from epoch format), if Cubic aren't using that they are loopy. If they are I can only assume they are applying a timezone to it and accidentally configured some as EST+10 (Syd DST) not EST+10 (Brisbane no DST). If that is the case it smacks of badly thought out programming since all the tag on/ tag off rules are based on relative difference in time it would have been wiser to stick with seconds from epoch for the calculations and then translating it to local time when displaying the transactions on the website etc.

I was chatting with a Veolia driver on the way home last night and he told the clock is synced at the depot. This was confirmed by the Go Card thread on A.T.D.B. . Something defiantly wrong if clocks are out of sync on some Buses.

[haakon]

I was chatting with a Veolia driver on the way home last night and he told the clock is synced at the depot. This was confirmed by the Go Card thread on A.T.D.B. . Something defiantly wrong if clocks are out of sync on some Buses.

I'd lay money on it being a incorrect time zone setting on the cubic device on the bus. Both NTP (the unix way of syncing time) and Windows Time Service both synchronize to to a standard time and then apply the local timezone.

[Huggies]

Well I just spoke to someone at TransStink and got the issues resolved and should get my $7.00 back within Ten Days. Lucky I am not on a shoe string budget.

[Huggies]

Some buses still having issues with the time. I've been billed for three separate trips this afternoon when they should have been classed as transfers. Very disappointed that the TransStink website has no mention of the issue. B.T. Drivers know about the issue but don't know anything else about it.

[ozbob]

Thanks Huggies and Haakon.


--------------------------

Media Release 10 April 2008

SEQ:  Go card alert!

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters has said that there is an issue with the go card system equipment on some buses that has resulted in an incorrect time being used to calculate fares, and users being overcharged.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

?We have received feedback that indicates there is a major issue on some of the buses with respect to the system time for the Go card onboard equipment (1).  Some of system clocks on the buses appear to be running an hour ahead.  It is possibly related to the daylight saving changes made in southern states last weekend.?

?The effect of this is that go card users who transfer to or from a bus with the incorrect system time are being debited with incorrect fares, and sometimes penalties.?

?There is no mention of this issue on the Translink website at the moment.?

?We wish to alert go card users to check carefully the transaction history for their cards, particularly if they have been travelling on bus since last weekend.?

?Refunds of incorrect charges can be claimed by ringing Translink on 131230.?


Reference:

1.  http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=432.msg3053#msg3053


Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[haakon]

Some buses still having issues with the time. I've been billed for three separate trips this afternoon when they should have been classed as transfers. Very disappointed that the TransStink website has no mention of the issue. B.T. Drivers know about the issue but don't know anything else about it.

yup, happend to me this afternoon as well. I noted down the bus number when I realised as I tagged on it didn't show "continuation" as translink did ask if I knew that when I reported the last time this happend for a refund.

[Otto]

There is an issue at the moment... Can't say any more in public..

[Huggies]

There is an issue at the moment... Can't say any more in public..

Never can TransStink it seems. They should be offering free travel till they fix the issue.

[ozbob]

Thanks to 612 ABC Radio Brisbane for mentioning this time issue with the bus go card systems on this mornings breakfast show.

Check your transaction record!

Refunds ring Translink on 131230

[crouchg]

KISS (Keep it simple stupid)!

Ever since the early pilot days I have bee banging a brum that the system implementation is far to complex when multiple modes of trave is involved, bus - train or two busses or bus and ferry, all of the errors I have has which have been numerus even since the go card was launched (I am currently waiting for one refund and about to ring on Monday about another needed on Friday), Have been from the continuation not working or not being touched off probably .

The fare scheme is complex, why we cant touch on at the start of the journey and off at the end I don?t know? It?s a zone system not a mode system right? Does any one else know?

And a weekly cap for the maximum number of zones would solve most if of these issues.

My biggest laugh at the moment is I call up for a $3 refund and there is a marginal cost for them answering the call lets say $10, so they are already $7 down, then the operator cant decide and process the refund so it has to go to a second person who probably has a marginal cost of $30 now they are $37 down (that?s our rate payers money they are spending). I have to wait 10 days so I call again to chase, another $10 marginal cost for TL , its madness! The call and refund should be over at the end of the first phone call and back on the card that day!

Any one else see this? Or id it just me?

[ozbob]

Feedback received, thanks!

I am getting a little bit sick of having to ask BT bus drivers to turn on the Go card readers in the Queen Street Bus Station.  Just wait until King George opens.  Most of the time they are okay but they should know to do this by now.  Otherwise my Go card is very convenient and I like it except I think they need to sort out a few procedures. 

It took them over 1 month and 3 follow up calls for them to refund money owing to me.  I initially topped up my card in February without realising I still had my monthly paper ticket to use.  As I didn't touch in within the 28 day period, the top up was cancelled.  This is fair enough however I had to go to great lengths to get my money back!  They have now applied the amount back onto my Go card however it took them over a month to do this.

[Gordo]

I was going ok with my go card several weeks until I forgot to touch off. Fair enough it charged the penalty. I am sure I have read press releases, more than one, from the minister promoting the scheme, informing us that you then need to phone in to have the overcharge refunded. I was hardly going to worry until discovering that I did not receive my 50 % discount after the 6th journey. On phoning Translink I was told that the policy is, not only am I not entitled to any refund for 'forgetting' - its only if the equipment didn't work - but I need to have made 6 'successful' journeys before getting the discount.

I regard this as a double penalty and an overly punitive approach, especially while trying to get into the new routine of swiping on and off, especially as I don't intend becoming a regular go card user. This only adds to the disincentive.

There are advantages to the card at times, but I don't beleive any of this detail has been made clear in any of the promotional or instructional material supplied.

[ozbob]

Welcome Gordo!

Thanks for the feedback.  Something well worth following up.

Yes, there are many disincentives for uptake and ongoing use at the moment.  RAIL Back On Track supports the successful introduction and uptake of the card.  However, it is hard to imagine a more worse roll-out than what we have witnessed these past years.

Still we constructively try to get them to see reason.  Maintain the rage!   

Regards
Ozbob

[ozbob]

On further reflection the loss of the 50% as you describe is more alarming in view of the time meltdown on the DCUs on the buses these past couple of weeks.  I assume at this point that unless the user contacts Translink and gets the mistakes fixed they will never see the 50%.

The poor folks would be getting whacked all over the place.  No wonder very few are using the card on the bus!

Appalling isn't it?  Government, MPs just stand by and watch this debacle.

[Derwan]

I was hardly going to worry until discovering that I did not receive my 50 % discount after the 6th journey. On phoning Translink I was told that the policy is, not only am I not entitled to any refund for 'forgetting' - its only if the equipment didn't work - but I need to have made 6 'successful' journeys before getting the discount.

Playing devil's advocate here.... why should you be rewarded when you didn't do the right thing?

[ozbob]

Feedback received, thanks!

Another go card user caught by the time issue.

The Go Card worked well initially when I bought it back in February however, over the last two weeks I have been charged twice for every one way trip I have made from QUT KG to Toowong. 

Ordinarily my afternoon trip would be:

3 pm Bus from KG Busway to Roma St (1 Zone $2:30) transfer to 3:18 pm train to Toowong (1 Zone Transfer $0).  The trip takes 25 ? 30 mins all up.

The system has been registering my trip as:

3:19 pm  Touch On Transfer Roma St

3:29 pm  Touch Off Toowong

4:09 pm  Touch on QUT Kelvin Grove Busway

4:17 pm  Touch Off Roma St

Every morning I print out my Go Card ?history? and ring Translink to get a refund.  I?m having to top up the card weekly given the regular double charging.

** Sigh** Even ?venting? no longer makes me feel better about it !

[haakon]

I put my claim in for the DST issue on the 9/4. Still haven't received a response or a refund yet......

[Mozz]

Haakon I can't believe that you are in this position due to the following logic:

There is no DST issue
Oh wait there is an issue which is urgently being worked on but we won't tell anyone
Oh wait we may need to tell commuters
Oh wait we need to publicly tell commuters
But there is no issue because you can just apply for a refund
It's all the bus drivers fault
You can still just apply for a refund

and after all this you want us to believe that your refund hasn't been processed - I call lawyer lawyer oops sorry liar liar.

.... waiting for the next installment of DSTGate a sub plot of SmartCard/gocard Gate - proudly brought to you by ...... oh that's right hundreds of millions of dollars of queensland taxpayers money

[haakon]

I heard a rumor that there is a remake of "Yes, Minister" on the cards. I believe the filming of the pilot is going under the moniker of "Translink - Go Card".

[Huggies]

Don't mean to sound like a broken record but I am still having issues. Got doubled charged again last night and today.

[ozbob]

Thanks Huggies, keep them coming.  It is very useful to help get outcomes. I have received similar reports from colleagues at work.

Cheers
Ozbob

[ozbob]

A frustrated senior colleague has just said to me "tried to use the Go card coming in on the bus, couldn't low power or something .., so I pulled out my ten tripper but the reader for that didn't work either.  Another free trip ... "

[Mozz]

I bet all those rail commuters who have had active interaction with transit officers during the past 6 months when they stepped up the "crack down" on fare evasion (under the regime where fare evasion = theft/stealing) are less than impressed that little or no focus is being paid to commuters travelling by bus    I seem to recall statements by those in positiions of responsibility when the crackdown started that transit officers are immediately aware of malfunctions across the network - hmm I wonder how this works on the buses.

[ozbob]

Free rides on buses due to faulty ticketing equipment (both go card and ten trippers) is very very common at the moment.

Rail commuters don't have any of the latitude that bus passengers (and in view of the problems reasonable) seem to get.  Also very difficult to have a TTO on every bus of course.

The suggestion made in the press of having a ticket-slip system that passengers can be given when there is a faulty AVVM on the station (eg. failed EFTPOS) is a very good one I think.  A slip that confirms that the passenger had every intention of buying a ticket but due to machine issue was unable and then she/he should be be allowed to reverse ticket without an 'inquisition' at the reverse ticket window in town!

Some passengers are becoming frightened to use the new technology because they think they might well end up with fines!  Not good!

[GOody]

I've been a Go Card early adopter, having had the card since it's official public launch.

I'm a infrequent bus/ferry/train traveller, with probably on average one-two return journeys per week. Being an extensive traveller, I also use Transit Smartcards in many other locales - including Singapore, Bangkok, Hong Kong, Tokyo, London and Lisbon so am very familiar with the technology and convenience a Smartcard brings.

Translink's implementation though is poorly implemented. Many of the things I see wrong have been discussed here and on other forums. The takeup rate is very poor. I feel like I'm the only person using the system some days.

I got my first Penalty Fare today. Went to tag off from a CityCat and the machine had "Lost Communication". There were people behind me blocking so I couldn't just turn around to hopefully find another working machine before the ferry left my stop. It's only $3 (and the original fare should have been $2.30), but it's annoying. Calling up for the refund would cost me more than 70c in wasted time.

Some of the things I see wrong with the implementation:

• No daily cap. Today being a Saturday means you can buy the Off-Peak tickets which work out cheaper than GoCard on the return journey. The cards should only charge up to a maximum fare per day (like the London implementation).
• Card Top up machines accept coins for paper tickets, but not coins for card top-ups (although, most implementations are similar).
• Checking a non-registered card's history means tying up a Fare Machine. Some other implementations have separate consoles just for checking history (eg Hong Kong).
• No fare applications loaded (eg the Weekly/Monthly/10 trip type tickets). Other countries can get these working.
• There was no incentive to migrate to GoCard upon implementation - no discounts of regular fares (except the poor Frequent User discount).

Where I see big issues coming though is in July when the CPI increases occur for tickets. I think the GoCard fares will remain the same, but paper ticket costs will go up quite a bit.

I'm not going to return my Go Card, but it will remain as one of the cards being used rarely.

Oh, and does anyone know if Translink staff get free Go Cards, or any other fare benefits of their employ?

[ozbob]

Welcome GOody!

Thanks for your comments.  We are generally supportive of the go card as done right it will have benefits.
The fare and the ongoing issues though are taking its toll.

I have grave doubts that it will be ready for major use on the buses or ferries in July, when the BT 10 trippers are due to be withdrawn as well.

The roll out has not gone well, despite the spin from above (TL and Minister's Office).

Cheers
Ozbob

[Derwan]

My housemate reported receiving a free trip on the bus the other day.  He touched on and off as required, but the fare came up as zero.

He was only travelling from the Myer Centre across the bridge to the Cultural Centre.  The bus driver had to manually set the stop at the Myer Centre, so we assume that it was still manually set to the Myer Centre when the bus arrived at the Cultural Centre - so it registered as a cancellation instead of a trip.

[Huggies]

Derwan I've had this as well on the 599. I touched on at Chermside and went to Toombul however the machine thought it was still at Chermside so was not charged a fair  .

[Huggies]

I've had several free trips in the last few days due to faulty equipment on the buses. Route 310 on Monday and Route 370 today.

I caught the 303 Railbus last night from Eagle Junction. A chap with a go card didn't want to tag on the bus as apparently he doesn't tag off at Eagle Junction Station. Instead he boards the 303 and gets off at Ascot and goes over to Ascot station to tag off so it looks like he used the train all the way. Bloody weird way of doing it but I guess it works if you can convince the bus driver.

I'm yet to have any more issues regarding the out of sync clocks.

[Skeetbris]

It appears that the time issue on the buses has been resolved at last. All Brisbane Transport services I've used in the last two weeks have not been out of sync. But when are they going to get the back door readers working? Nearly every time I get off the bus it has to be through the front doors because the rear door readers are "Out of service"!
I did have a problem with touching off on an outbound 220 when it came up all red lights for some reason but eventually turned the right colour. Though it didn't help the drivers frustration after having sideswiped the bus at the disasterous mess that BCC has made of the roundabout at Wynnum and Preston Rds. It's hard enough to get a car though the small space they allow let alone something the size of a Low Floor Merc!

[ozbob]

Thanks for the feedback.  It does look as though the time is fixed (thanks!)  although the notice is still accessible (--> http://www.translink.com.au/qt/translin.nsf/index/media_busclocks_apr08 ).

There is still an explanation needed to the public transport community of SEQ as to why they were not informed for two weeks of the problem.  Many people have lost money due to the time problem, and they have no redress.  Again a classic example of a major communication failure by Translink.  And the evidence to confirm that apathy is in this thread here --> http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=743.0 .

Us taxpayers have a major problem.  The equipment and system on the buses/ferries is clearly not working properly.  Our agents, Government and Translink appear to be incapable of sorting out this mess (do they care?).  Again this is going to be an acute problem with the pending withdrawal of the ten trippers from Brisbane Transport. I know the BCC is somewhat concerned (as they should be!).

This is how I would proceed from this point:

1.  reduce the base fares on the go card by 30%.  This would make it essentially cost neutral for all compared to paper ticketing and overall will be cost neutral as it will help shift people to the card and there will be the same revenue either paper or card essentially. Go card users will be more tolerant of issues as they will not be getting ripped off fare wise.  Keep everything else the same.

2. expedite the refund process - two working days maximum.

3. delay the withdrawal of ten trippers on BT for at least another 3 months, to give a window to sort out the GPS issues in the CBD and review the operation of the rear door readers.

4.  urgent review of the data tables and code for the system. Incorporate simple logic traps to capture and stop 'double touches', phantom penalties and so forth.

5.  run a sweep of the user database overnight daily to flag and refund obvious penalties and overcharges without the need for user initiation of refund process.

6. once system working introduce further ticketing incentives, capping and off peak. 

7. it might be necessary to introduce a local signal for those places where GPS not working eg. tunnel and stops in shadows.

If the system is made reliable there are great potential benefits for our public transport.  Lets get on with it!  We are very supportive of the card, we want it to work and work right!!

Go!!

[entilza]

Hi all,

Unfortunately, I may have uncovered the "next stage" of problems with the Go Card: card refunds that disappear.  I'm owed over $50, but they can't seem to be able to refund it.

A quick history of my experiences: an early adopter, I had a very successful first week on the busses.  After that, around 50% of my bus trips ended with a fine due to the system crashing or otherwise not operating properly at Touch-off time.  I estimated I would spend 20 mins per call to Translink asking for refunds, and a minimum of 4 calls per week.  At around an hour and a half per week, it just wasn't worth it.  Some refunds never appeared and needed to be carefully tracked.  Realising the this wasn't just a hardware/software issue, but there were some large organisational issues too, I decided to give it a rest and try the card one month later.

A month later, all the same problems plagued me daily for over a week.  I gave up in disgust and sent in the refund form.

That was just under 2 months ago.  Still no refund.

After being told several times that the card had been cancelled and the delay in the refund was normal, and the refund would appear on my card "in a couple of days", I let it slide for a while.  This morning I realised it's been over 2 months since I cancelled the card, and over a month since the refund delay hit.

A call to translink and I'm informed they'll send an email to the finance dept, and I will have to wait the usual 10 days for anything to happen.  Quite possibly, that's 10 days to find nothing has happened and I'll have to start again (again).

No pro-active customer service.  No issue owning.  Just more problems, and the customer gets jammed again.   

To say the least, I'm quite peeved over the whole experience.

WORD OF ADVICE: If you send your card in for a refund, keep a copy of the card number before you send it.  Not having my card number (because I sent the card in!) has caused quite a few issues in tracking this problem.  I should have seen that on coming!

[ozbob]

Welcome Entilza!

Thanks for the feedback.  It is similar to much we have received.

We continue to highlight the issues as best we can.  Having the details of the ongoing problems with the go card accessible publicly is useful to all.

Your comments will inform our further efforts to get functional outcomes.

Regards
Ozbob

[entilza]

Thanks OzBob - great service you're providing.

I can see the merrits in the GoCard, but the execution and administration is currently woeful.  Sadly, things like this can kill projects because they become political dynamite and no one wants to be associated with it.

[Sunbus610]

None of the Go Card readers at my local railway station were working this morning . After checking with QR staff before boarding my train to the city, I was advised just to show my card (at the gates) when I got to Brisbane Central station. Thanks to good communication with TL/QR staff, I had no problem going through the barriers at Central.

[haakon]

Well after going back to a monthly ticket to let the clock issue to blow over. I'm back on the Go card for another round. It will be interesting to see if I average 1-2 free trips per week again.

[Skeetbris]

    Further to my experiences with the Go Card.

   1. I have not been able to exit via the rear doors of any Brisbane Transport bus in the past month. Not 1 bus has had them working  properly, it sort of defeats the purpose of quick entry and exit when you have to try to run down to the front of the bus and then try getting off with passengers boarding and not allowing you to get off the bus. I no longer bother with the rear doors if I can help it because this problem should have been fixed by now!


   2. Whenever I use a BT service I now rarely see anybody else using the Go Card, I am persisting with it for now because I like the convenience and ease of boarding the bus etc. But on the services I use I just don't see many others now using it. Pity because it could cut the long wait times at stops where there are people who board, hand the poor driver a $20.00 note and expect to just get a ticket and change. Or others who have been standing there and board, then look through their bags or pockets and hold up the bus for ages.

   3. I am not impressed with the way refunds just don't get credited  when you go to the trouble of phoning them up. reporting the problem and getting a reference number, then 5 weeks later still no refunds for the over charging with the time issue! All up that cost me about $15.00 now that I've been through to check, good work Translink that's theft by stealth!

   4. The extra work it's going to create for the drivers when the 10 trippers go and the fines moronically rise. How can you fine someone that has touched on but not been able to get to the front readers before it takes off again. It's just not good enough considering it has proven to be more expensive to use on most days and about the same as the paper tickets on either a single trip and/or a return ticket. Instead of fining people they should be rewarding those who persist with it and increase the fare by 50% for anyone that attempts to buy a paper ticket with more than a $10.00 note. The fines should be stopped on the buses until they have sorted the system.

   That's my two cents worth for the moment.