Quiet Car

[ozbob]

Announcements are needed, these are generally not that obtrusive.  Some passengers don't have good vision.

Signs can be placed in all carriages.  In time folks will adapt to the new arrangements, if they know about them!

[Golliwog]

Yeah, the announcement I had was unobtrusive. The guard just added it on to the end of his usual message about what the next station was or that the train was a Beenleigh train. I wasn't in the quiet car this morning but I did notice at least one guy in my car take out his head phones to listen to the message. I wouldn't think it would take much for them to make announcements over the PA at major stations, particularly in peak times. There also needs to be some sort of education package for schools. I was in the "quiet" car this arvo and the school kids carried on as per usual at one stage there was a mx sword fight between a couple of them

[ozbob]

Has anyone seen a 'quiet carriage' poster or sign yet?

[Golliwog]

Personally I have not seen one, however a friend of mine was telling me he did see one the other night. It was just in one of the poster slots next to the doors.

[WTN]

I haven't seen any quiet car signs yet.

I rode the 5:12 Nambour service from Roma St to Bowen Hills today to test the quiet carriage (IMU100 series). There were only a few quiet conversations between Roma St and Central, nothing intruding about that. I found the deluge of passengers boarding at Central a lot more distracting, as were people changing carriages between Central and Fortitude Valley. Boy was it loud with the intercarriage doors open in that tunnel!

[ozbob]

Suggestions for getting this right, please post here.

There are the obvious things, roll out the posters on trains and stations.  Occasional on board announcements.   Concentrate some CSOs to alert pax.  School education programs.   Free ear plugs?  only joking ...   any other constructive ideas please?

Thanks.

[Golliwog]

What they have in the UK (on the trains I went on anyway) was they have stickers along the windows in the quiet car, saying that it was infact a quiet car. Problem with this was that they kept the same car as the quiet one and it didn't change when the train changed directions. Perhaps they could put stickers up on the windows in the rear carriage (both ends) saying "The rear carriage is the quiet carriage"

[Nina M Blackwell]

  First of all, I don't see the point in "trialling" it.  It should just be adopted full stop.  It will take a while for people to become aware of it and to respect it.  I'm afraid there are people who will simply ignore it.  Members of the CRGs could carry copies of the MX article (or other evidence) and give them to people who may not be aware (at least during this "trial" period).  Announcements in the schools would be helpful.  Sometimes the Jerry Seinfeld half turn may do the trick for blabbermouths!  Unfortunately, the announcements (four this morning!) fall on deaf ears when the music is plugged in. We will get there, though, have faith!

[ozbob]

Presently inbound on the 8.27am Airport service ex Corinda, SMU272/271.  In the last car, group of school children discussing the fact that this carriage is the 'quiet' carriage.  So word must be spreading.  The group thinks the idea is good and will work!  Is very quiet at the moment, next station Tennyson!

[Golliwog]

LOL, on my train this morning went Ferny Grove to Fortitude Valley with no announcements, then from FV to Park Road the quiet carriage was announced 4 times.

[Derwan]

Several announcements on board this morning.  A couple of people mentioned the fact that the announcements were making noise.  True - but they are necessary for a period to notify/remind people of the new rule.

Signs are definitely needed in the first and third cars of each 3-car set.  These should be a permanent feature to let new travellers know.

Members of the CRGs could carry copies of the MX article (or other evidence) and give them to people who may not be aware (at least during this "trial" period).

Last week there were a couple of ladies talking very loudly in the last carriage.  I flipped through the mX but there was no ad that day.  I loaded the page on my iPhone and was going to show that to them, but that seemed a bit geeky.  If there were signs, all you'd have to do is point to the sign.

[ozbob]

As the train was arriving at Roma St there was an onboard announcement about the quiet carriage.  I quite enjoyed the announcement clear and to the point.  Bit late in the journey though, perhaps when  the train started from Corinda, and mid journey.

[Golliwog]

People are definatly choosing to use this car. This morning the train before mine left and it was looking rather empty until the last car went past which had most of the FG commuters in it.

[somebody]

How's this work when the back 3 cars are locked off?

[Derwan]

How's this work when the back 3 cars are locked off?

LOL!  I guess it should say, "Last OPEN carriage." 

[colinw]

How's this work when the back 3 cars are locked off?

LOL!  I guess it should say, "Last OPEN carriage." 

On the other hand, the locked carriages would be very quiet indeed. 

[ozbob]

I hear a rumour that the trial might be extended to last and first cars ... such has been the response.  That way signage etc. better facilitated as well.

[Golliwog]

Announcements are getting better. There was a general one for it over the whole station PA this arvo at Central. What is a bit dissapointing is some peoples understanding of the situation as demonstrated by some of the comments in mX's letters section with a couple of people saying the trial hadn't started yet.

[ozbob]

Inbound 9.15AM down ex Corinda, SMU209 last car, very quiet!  Two 'quiet car' announcements since leaving Corinda.  Word spreading ... still no signs.  Will check out Central shortly.  Milton next!

[brismike]

Caught the 8.09am Darra to Doomben train this morning. There were at least 5 Quiet Carriage announcements from the Guard between Darra and Central. Also with his other anouncments about where the train was going, where to change stations to catch other services and what side the next platform would be on, there was hardly any quiet time at all. In fact I found it very annoying to have to listen to his spiel over and over again. If you really want quiet on a train just buy some earplugs because that is the only way you will get it these days, quiet carriage or not.

[somebody]

I actually find it a little annoying to be told which side the platform is on.  Perhaps this is for blind people who cannot see it?

A Darra-Doomben service?  Isn't that another needless conflicting move?

[brismike]

Actually the 8.09 am Darra to Doomben service is a great train to catch from Darra. It starts at Redbank I think so it has plenty of seats when it gets to Darra. It is also express from Corinda to Milton only stopping at Indooroopilly. Quite a quick and comfortable ride into the city which gets you there at around 8.30. 

[ozbob]

Flyer I picked up at Roma St station earlier today.

[STB]

Traveling into the city this morning I sat in the last carriage just to watch and listen to what might happen.  The guard made several announcements (after every 3rd station) calling it a 'quiet coach'.  The result was some initial confused looks then back to their noisy selves.  A very loud school group then boarded at Coorparoo in the last carriage!

[justanotheruser]

"Customers will be made aware of the quiet carriages through on-board announcements and posters on trains and at stations," she said.

I have not seen a single poster at a station or on a train. I have heard only one announcement and that was made near wacol on the outbound afternoon peak. Why not make it earlier when people are getting on the train? Also why not make an announcement at the station in between the two minute message and train arriving message? Once people are on the train they aren't likely to move.

They also forgot to make a rule saying parents with young kids are not allowed to travel in the quiet carriages. After all how can you guarantee young kids or babies will keep quiet. I travel 40 minutes on the train from home to get to my GP. I can tell you know if my child is sick they may make noise and while I will do everything I can to keep them quiet I can not promise anything. If it really is going to be a quiet carriage they MUST introduce this rule but of course they won't because of political reasons.

of course the other rule to be introduced is banning people with hearing problems because often they talk louder so they can hear themselves talk but that will break the too loud rules. Do I hear the words discrimination lawsuit!

How about bring back different fare structures. If people pay a surcharge then they can sit in the quiet carriage. The surcharge can provide money to police it. Problem solved.

Outbound on the Corinda flyer, last carriage EMU72.  Very very quiet, like 2 pax LOL.  All the more reason for something for Seniors, plenty of capacity, but that is another thread ...  no quiet carriage signs or announcements since left Roma St.

just bear in mind that from my observations if you get a group of seniors they tend to talk so the quiet carriage may not be the place for them anyway.

School students always seem to use the last carriage the first is a better idea

maybe on your line but I see students on the first carriage on my train. They are the only ones who will get off the train and then back on to make it easier for people to get off and on. It is about time we stopped victimising school students. Lets also remember they are kids. Why should kids be forced not to be kids? Why should those least able to protect themselves in the event of an accident be made to stand? Oh yeah it is because they travel for free or at a discounted rate. If that is the case why don't all the other people with free travel get forced to stand?

[justanotheruser]

"Customers will be made aware of the quiet carriages through on-board announcements and posters on trains and at stations," she said.

An on board announcement about the quiet car would totally defeat the purpose of the quiet car, by making loud noise everyone can hear.
A generic sign can go in any carriage stating that the very last carriage of the train is the quiet car.

actually I think they have turned the volume down for those announcements. I sit near the door and I can barely hear the doors closing message despite nobody making any noise

I didn't really think the Quiet car initiative was serious until I saw Paul Scurrah on the telly.....I suppose it could work but personally I've found the main creators of carriage "noise" comes from constant announcements by overly enthusiastic guards and/or the annoyingly loud circuit-breaker clunking sound made during carriage overhead power supply transfers.        

With a six car set, the circuit breaker noise would only be applicable in the second and fifth car.  You would not hear it, or only hear a glimpse of it in the last car.

I think the point is that it is the trains making the most noise not the commuters

Announcements are getting better. There was a general one for it over the whole station PA this arvo at Central. What is a bit dissapointing is some peoples understanding of the situation as demonstrated by some of the comments in mX's letters section with a couple of people saying the trial hadn't started yet.

just bear in mind those comments aren't always published straight after they are received and also they were responding to a comment from another day so it is actually possible that the trial had not started when the messages were sent to MX.


I agree buy earplugs and face mask.

[tronixstuff]

It is a great idea that will take some time to implement. As a general observation, people from our type of society don't like being told what to do. Having the guard try and describe it is a waste of time as others have mentioned. Once again I have to look abroad for solutions to the problem. The quiet car needs those moving-message LED displays that constantly scroll the next station data and then a reminder of the quiet car rules. Perhaps a green (or whatever) coloured stripe along the length of the carriage, and some nice "Quiet!" stickers covering the windows on the carriage door. If anyone wants to pay me enough, I could make some GSM jammers (http://www.ladyada.net/make/wavebubble/)

Then again, my pragmatic bs-detector tells me this is a nice distraction from the real, more pressing issues including service frequency and reliability, use of appropriate rolling-stock and passenger security.

[ozbob]

All the more reason for something for Seniors, plenty of capacity, but that is another thread

I was making reference to the fact there is plenty of spare capacity on the trains off peak and that a daily fare for seniors would actually mean more revenue and help the community, rather than in a quiet carriage context ...   

[Nina M Blackwell]

I believe the announcements are needed in this so-called "trial" period (a silly concept) because the learning curve seems to be quite steep.  Nearly two weeks into it and many patrons are still not aware.  Also, I notice that some people are daring to defy the new idea because it is a only a "trial" phase.  That's just ignorant and selfish.  Signs at both ends of the train will ensure that it will be visible no matter which direction the train is heading.  I think it is bl**dy brilliant and even if a rogue cellphone beeps or you can hear the static-y strains of blaring headphones, it will still be an improvement over not having a quiet carriage at all.  Once you go quiet you can never go back!

[Nina M Blackwell]

This is a reply to tronixstuff.  Yes, there are more pressing issues which will be tackled over the long term due to lack of money.  In our new "custom" trains, LED signs will be helpful in communicating information such as "shhhh".  Frequency can only be improved with track duplication in most instances.  Some day we will get there, but IN THE MEANTIME, let's make our commuting lives as tolerable as possible with things we can do NOW.  There is a difference between "white noise" of screeching wheels, engines, or whatever, and the incessant ring tones and loud voices (especially when it's the lone voice which people don't seem to care that everyone has to listen to them).  It is easier to tune white noise out than people's discussion of their business and personal affairs when you're trying to enjoy reading!  People in "our type of society" may not like people telling them what to do, but it IS a society and certain standards of consideration are warranted.  No one is saying they can't talk for an hour straight on the phone or listen to music or have a freakin party - just do it on the other 5 carriages available.

[tronixstuff]

This is a reply to tronixstuff.  Yes, there are more pressing issues which will be tackled over the long term due to lack of money.  In our new "custom" trains, LED signs will be helpful in communicating information such as "shhhh".  Frequency can only be improved with track duplication in most instances.  Some day we will get there, but IN THE MEANTIME, let's make our commuting lives as tolerable as possible with things we can do NOW.  There is a difference between "white noise" of screeching wheels, engines, or whatever, and the incessant ring tones and loud voices (especially when it's the lone voice which people don't seem to care that everyone has to listen to them).  It is easier to tune white noise out than people's discussion of their business and personal affairs when you're trying to enjoy reading!  People in "our type of society" may not like people telling them what to do, but it IS a society and certain standards of consideration are warranted.  No one is saying they can't talk for an hour straight on the phone or listen to music or have a freakin party - just do it on the other 5 carriages available.

Absolutely. I must admit to feeling a little pessimistic last night when I wrote that reply; however I do agree with you completely.

[p858snake]

Had announcements on my trains the other day, bit pointless when the announcement takes ~3 minutes (between one station and the next) and had them while waiting at RS as well.

[Nina M Blackwell]

Also, sometimes they are lost on the folks with the screaming earphones - so they can't hear anything!  The only thing that will work is PEER PRESSURE!  So man up, folks, and give people the nudge or at least the half turn with a roll of the eyes !

[justanotheruser]

This is a reply to tronixstuff.  Yes, there are more pressing issues which will be tackled over the long term due to lack of money.  In our new "custom" trains, LED signs will be helpful in communicating information such as "shhhh".  Frequency can only be improved with track duplication in most instances.  Some day we will get there, but IN THE MEANTIME, let's make our commuting lives as tolerable as possible with things we can do NOW.  There is a difference between "white noise" of screeching wheels, engines, or whatever, and the incessant ring tones and loud voices (especially when it's the lone voice which people don't seem to care that everyone has to listen to them).  It is easier to tune white noise out than people's discussion of their business and personal affairs when you're trying to enjoy reading!  People in "our type of society" may not like people telling them what to do, but it IS a society and certain standards of consideration are warranted.  No one is saying they can't talk for an hour straight on the phone or listen to music or have a freakin party - just do it on the other 5 carriages available.

hang on lets remember you can listen to music and have conversations in the quiet zones as they are called by guards. So when it comes to music are they saying one can now ignore the previous rules in the other carriages or do those rules still apply? If they apply what is the difference between a quiet zone and normal carriage?

[justanotheruser]

I have never had trouble sleeping when I want on the train so I'm really not sure what the fuss is about. Yes there are school children on my carriage so don't come back at me with that please people.

At graceville station today the staff made announcements to help prevent people getting on the quiet zone if they did not wish to. Finally a sensible way of doing this! I also saw the for the first time a poster at the train station. I only saw it because I had to get my go card out of my bag.

The guard on my train home made the announcement about the quiet zone and at the end added the words "for the 17th time". Me thinks guards getting bored of saying it but it does make trip more enjoyable when guards do things like that. It also makes people laugh instead of sitting on train looking miserable like they normally do. Are people really that unhappy or what?

[Derwan]

If they apply what is the difference between a quiet zone and normal carriage?

In the Quiet Zone, customers are "asked to refrain from loud conversations and the use of mobile phones, portable music players and other noisy devices."

In the other cars, people can talk loudly (obviously within reason) and use mobile phones.  They can listen to music (with earphones).

Think of the Quiet Zone as a public library!

I think common sense has to prevail.  There aren't set rules.  If people are too stupid to work out what would and wouldn't be considered appropriate in a "Quiet Zone", they shouldn't ride in the last carriage.

[justanotheruser]

If they apply what is the difference between a quiet zone and normal carriage?

In the Quiet Zone, customers are "asked to refrain from loud conversations and the use of mobile phones, portable music players and other noisy devices."

not according to announcements I hear o the train about the quiet zone. they basically say you can listen to music playing softly with earphones which is the exact same rule as the other carriages.

[Derwan]

not according to announcements I hear o the train about the quiet zone. they basically say you can listen to music playing softly with earphones which is the exact same rule as the other carriages.

Hmmm... every announcement I've heard is a standard spiel - which includes the direct quote I made.

Seriously though, do you need to be told exactly what is and what isn't appropriate?  Are people not able to work that out for themselves?  The information provided is very generic for a specific purpose.  It comes down to common sense.

[p858snake]

Isn't it already against the bylaws to listen to a musical device on a train without ear/head phones?

[Derwan]

Isn't it already against the bylaws to listen to a musical device on a train without ear/head phones?

Yes.  The general statement suggests you shouldn't use them at all (even with headphones) in the quiet car.

I think this is because even when you use headphones, it can be annoying for other passengers if it's turned up loud enough.

Again - common sense should prevail.  If you listen to music with headphones at a level so that no one else can hear it, I'm sure it's fine.