Quiet Car

[justanotheruser]

It is unfortunate that Queensland Rail ALMOST got it right with the Quiet Carrage but not quite.  During the Community Reference Group ("CRG") meetings from the beginning two years ago, I was one of the people who asked for a "Reading Car" as a "wish list" item.  If one car (as originally) had been allocated for READING, then there would be "no talking" at all and there would not be this room for interpretation.

If people were "considerate of their fellow passengers" and used common sense instead of doing only what they are used to doing, they would observe that by and large, passengers using the Quiet Carriage are quietly reading, working on their iPads, iphones etc and most, but not all, are using headphones that cannot be heard by everyone else.  It boggles the mind as to why two people would want to carry on an hour-long conversation when theirs are the only voices carried through the whole carriage. Why is it too much to ask for to have them choose one of the other four carriages in the morning?

By the way, "courtesy" means acting a certain way in public - not like hoons - so that the "courtesy" expected in a quiet zone should be at even a higher level.

BTW - curtsey - means to genuflect to royalty or to an elder.  And "your" should be 'you're".

I'll be happy to show respect to anybody who shows respect. Sadly the loudest group complaining about lack of respect is the worst offender. Yep the elderly. unless elder simply means now that I'm old everyone should do things my way.

@somebody: obvious answer why not to make 2nd and/or 5th carriages 'quiet' is that being the middle ones they get a lot more inter-carriage traffic.

and it is alot easier to find the spot on the platform to wait if it is the first and last car. Sure they could mark the platform but soon there will be so many marks painted on the platform that nobody will pay attention to them just like they often don't now.

Maybe they should abolish 3 car services, even on weekends and evenings.

What would this do?  Configurations will changed.  The first car one day might be the forth car the next day, because the 3-car set becomes the trailing 3-car set instead of the lead one.

From my observations I don't believe this would be true.  Generally when I notice the middle of a six car train the destination signs have been painted over and therefore not suitable to be fron or back of a train.

[petey3801]

Maybe they should abolish 3 car services, even on weekends and evenings.

What would this do?  Configurations will changed.  The first car one day might be the forth car the next day, because the 3-car set becomes the trailing 3-car set instead of the lead one.

From my observations I don't believe this would be true.  Generally when I notice the middle of a six car train the destination signs have been painted over and therefore not suitable to be fron or back of a train.
[/quote]

6-car trains get remarshalled all the time. It happens quite often that one cab will be leading now, but will be in the middle tomorrow (or even tonight etc.) due to remarshalling in the yard. Could be due to any number of things.. Might be problems with the cab that can't be quickly fixed so it gets put in the middle, might simply be a case of positioning in the yard (ie: It's mate gets put into the shed and another 3-car unit is put on the other end, simply because it's easier to couple it to that end).

[Gazza]

From my observations I don't believe this would be true.  Generally when I notice the middle of a six car train the destination signs have been painted over and therefore not suitable to be fron or back of a train.

Only some 6 car trains are like that. I think its just a few of the old EMUs....The middle cabs also only have the middle window, and not the side ones.

[somebody]

Maybe they should abolish 3 car services, even on weekends and evenings.

What would this do?  Configurations will changed.  The first car one day might be the forth car the next day, because the 3-car set becomes the trailing 3-car set instead of the lead one.

I suppose so, but part of the re-marshalling effort could include moving the "quiet carriage" signs.  I guess it depends on how often it needs to be done.

From my observations I don't believe this would be true.  Generally when I notice the middle of a six car train the destination signs have been painted over and therefore not suitable to be fron or back of a train.

Only some 6 car trains are like that. I think its just a few of the old EMUs....The middle cabs also only have the middle window, and not the side ones.

Only EM60-79.  Don't mind the missing cabs, but I'm not happy with the lower traction power.

[justanotheruser]

From my observations I don't believe this would be true.  Generally when I notice the middle of a six car train the destination signs have been painted over and therefore not suitable to be fron or back of a train.

Only some 6 car trains are like that. I think its just a few of the old EMUs....The middle cabs also only have the middle window, and not the side ones.

Ok must admit haven't paid that much attention to newer trains at the middle.

[BribieG]

Getting right off topic but seeing as only a few trains are 3-car (Shorncliffe off peak etc) why bother with two sets of three, as the overwhelming majority of trains are 6 car. So why wasn't it decided to have simply six cars in a row with a cockpit each end. Surely it would have resulted in millions of dollars savings for the entire fleet, and just make a few three or even four cars for dedicated use on Shorncliffe whatever?

[somebody]

Getting right off topic but seeing as only a few trains are 3-car (Shorncliffe off peak etc) why bother with two sets of three, as the overwhelming majority of trains are 6 car. So why wasn't it decided to have simply six cars in a row with a cockpit each end. Surely it would have resulted in millions of dollars savings for the entire fleet, and just make a few three or even four cars for dedicated use on Shorncliffe whatever?

That may well be the result of the 200 unit order.  They've done the same thing in Sydney - the Waratah carriages won't be divisible.

[Golliwog]

I think that yes, making it just one 6 car unit is probably going to be the way to go, but the 3 car units do have their pros. If one set fails, you can still use the remaining 3 cars, you just need to get it back to the yard and find a new partner, where as if the 6 car unit fails, the whole thing fails. It also easily allows for 9 car units if that's going to happen with CRR. It could be done provided the 6 car trains can couple with the 3 cars, which shouldn't be hard to set up, but that means you would still have to keep some 3 car units around anyway.

[HappyTrainGuy]

You also have to think about the stabling/maintainence facilities and schedules at Mayne. Some of the sheds only support 3 car units. Like Golliwog said though their major advantage is them being able to swap out units and then pair them with another set if it fails or for scheduled maintainence.

On another note not all units are operable with each other because they run different systems to each other for example you can't operate an IMU160 with an ICE or EMU.

[mufreight]

The current maintenence and servicing is based on and equiped on the basis of three car modules.
Logic is that these new train sets be built as three car modules with only one driving position at one end, it is important that they be MU compatiable with the current build of IMU/SMU sets.
At present the set utilisation is handicaped by the lack of MU capability between the EMU, Mark SMU/IMU sets and the current build SMU/IMU sets

[ozbob]

Message from Queensland Rail

From April 16 we're changing the Quiet Carriages from the first and last cars of every train to the second and second-last cars of all services.  By moving the Quiet Carriages, Queensland Rail can place permanent signage on the inside and outside of each designated Quiet Carriage.

The Quiet Carriages will be moving to the second and second-last cars of all trains.  Queensland Rail asks customers travelling in the Quiet Carriages to refrain from having loud conversations, using mobile phones or noisy musical devices.

From April 16, we ask anyone who would prefer not to use these quiet zones to respect those who do and travel in another carriage of the train.

[Derwan]

Message from Queensland Rail

I heard this rumour a couple of weeks ago.  Wasn't sure whether to believe it.  Now it's official. 

Less than ideal that people have to walk through the quiet carriage to get between the 2 "loud" ones - but the permanent signage will make it clearer.

[Gazza]

Less than ideal that people have to walk through the quiet carriage to get between the 2 "loud" ones - but the permanent signage will make it clearer.

Who cares, just stay quiet when walking through!

Takes like 10-20 secs to walk through....problem?

[HappyTrainGuy]

Its going to suck even more if you want a quite trip on a SMU260/IMU160

[aldonius]

It's not people talking on their way through, it's the noise of the internal doors.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Or the wheel flat

[SurfRail]

I find the 160s and 260s tend to be quieter inside anyway.  The door seals are better, there is less ambient noise because the suspension works better (except for the fairly common and very irritating scraping/ringing noise the a/c pods make), and I have never really noticed any issue with noise penetrating between carriages.

[ozbob]

I have been advised that quiet carriages on the ICE units will be in the second and second last. Therefore there will be two (2) quiet carriages on a five (5) car set.

[ozbob]

From the Couriermail click here!

Queensland Rail to make a racket about Quiet Carriages

Queensland Rail to make a racket about Quiet Carriages

    by: Robyn Ironside
    From: The Courier-Mail
    April 11, 2012 2:51PM

QUEENSLAND Rail is about to start making more noise about its quiet carriages in an effort to make people aware of the expectation they travel in silence in certain parts of the train.

From Monday, the quiet carriage will change from the first and last carriages of every six-car train to the second and second-last carriages.

Queensland Rail Chief Customer Officer Cathy Heffernan said the change was to allow permanent signage on the quiet carriages so there could be no doubt what was expected of those on board.

"While the last carriage of a three-car train and the first and last carriages of six-car train were easy for customers to identify, it meant Queensland Rail couldn't have permanent signage onboard due to the way trains are operated," Ms Heffernan said.

"They can run as either three or six-car consists and in both directions, meaning permanent signage was not possible in the current layout.

"By moving the Quiet Carriage to the second and second-last carriage it means if it's a three or six-car service, it will always remain the same position."

Quiet carriages have been in place for over a year in south-east Queensland with the only criticism from commuters being that the "silence" is not enforced by transit officers.

A Queensland Rail spokesman said that would not change.

"It's always been planned as train etiquette rather than train legislation," he said.

In the quiet carriages, commuters are encouraged to refrain from loud conversations, using mobile phones and noisy musical devices.

Ms Heffernan said a survey of 450 customers found one in three people used the quiet carriage on some trips and 85 per cent of users were satisfied with the experience.

However, 92 per cent of respondents agreed permanent signage was a good idea with 62 per cent said they would change the carriage they usually sat in if the position of the quiet carriage changed.

"This change is customer driven - they have given us some sound advice and we are listening," said Ms Heffernan.

[Golliwog]

Guard on the 7:04/7:06am service this morning did the usual reminder about the quiet car, then mentioned that from next week "the fat controller" is changing it to the 2nd and 5th car.

[ozbob]

Twitter

Queensland Rail ‏ @QueenslandRail

From Monday our Quiet Carriages move to 2nd & 2nd last cars to allow for permanent signage which will take 4 wks to rollout across the fleet

[Derwan]

I have never really noticed any issue with noise penetrating between carriages.

And general conversation shouldn't penetrate the carriages.  I've only noticed if the people in the next carriage are particularly noisy, which shouldn't happen anyway.

I have been advised that quiet carriages on the ICE units will be in the second and second last. Therefore there will be two (2) quiet carriages on a five (5) car set.

I think that's fair enough.  I dare say that those journeys would be predominantly made up of people who just want a quiet trip anyway.

[O_128]

Apparently the volume is being turned down on these carriages as well

[HappyTrainGuy]

Yep, volume will perminatly be reduced in the second cars.

[BrizCommuter]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/qr-moves-quiet-carriage.html
The BrizCommuter word on the intolerant persons carriage.

[Gazza]

.Whilst they work well on booked seat long distance trains in Europe, they don't really work well on suburban rail systems

Haters gonna hate.

It worked just fine on C2C and Southwest Trains around London, having used both, and those are commuter systems.

I think quiet carriages are great. I always use them, If you want to talk, sit in the other 4, simple.

[petey3801]

.Whilst they work well on booked seat long distance trains in Europe, they don't really work well on suburban rail systems

Haters gonna hate.

It worked just fine on C2C and Southwest Trains around London, having used both, and those are commuter systems.

I think quiet carriages are great. I always use them, If you want to talk, sit in the other 4, simple.

Also works quite well in The Netherlands on NS (Dutch Railways).

[HappyTrainGuy]

I think that yes, making it just one 6 car unit is probably going to be the way to go, but the 3 car units do have their pros. If one set fails, you can still use the remaining 3 cars, you just need to get it back to the yard and find a new partner, where as if the 6 car unit fails, the whole thing fails. It also easily allows for 9 car units if that's going to happen with CRR. It could be done provided the 6 car trains can couple with the 3 cars, which shouldn't be hard to set up, but that means you would still have to keep some 3 car units around anyway.

I think there is no reason the 6 car trains could not simply be two 3 car halves that can be still joined and rejoined, maybe not as easy as now but not hard either. The relaibility factor must have been considered for Sydney and designed in. You might find that only the drivers cab controls are the limited back up and modular replacement, new locos, RTT, CTT as well as many overseas trains only have one pointy end so like a previous poster said, we probably have seen the last of the 3 car set orders.

Intially for CRR 9 car trains I agree a 3+3+3 in reality, but longterm you might seem them being a fixed 9 car set as by which time the 9 car network has grown sufficently the network only needs 6 and 9 car sets with perhaps 9 car sets parked up in off-peak.

One thing if but probably when the fixed 6 car sets arrive, the procedures will need to change for guards and this will surely see the writing on the wall for them on CRR routes and eventually others.

regards
Shane

Available power and total train length for starters if you use current rollingstock (Remove the cabs/couplers and have a normal carriage end and you'll find that the train is suddenly ~60cm shorter). But the major problem is the maintainence facilities. Mayne only has a few roads for 6 car trains/TiltTrains. The rest of the area is set up for 3 car rollingstock which make the maintainence schedules waaaayyy better and far more flexable compared to a fixed 6 car set once the different rollingstock types, required frequencies on lines, rollingstock upgrades, rollingstock refurbs etc are taken into account. Wulkura could change that but if that becomes a dedicated facility that brings up issues. Do they go for a similar setup as Mayne for a more flexable relationship between itself, Mayne, maint. schedules and the different types of rollingstock so both facilities can share the work load and offer recovery points with better plans for train lengths or does it become a dedicated fixed 9 car facility for the future which becomes a bitch of a place to get to if a 9 car set fails in a northbound tunnel or at Caboolture. The other option is to upgrade both facilities to accept longer trains. All of which comes back to $$$.

[BrizCommuter]

.Whilst they work well on booked seat long distance trains in Europe, they don't really work well on suburban rail systems

Haters gonna hate.

It worked just fine on C2C and Southwest Trains around London, having used both, and those are commuter systems.

I think quiet carriages are great. I always use them, If you want to talk, sit in the other 4, simple.

Really? A quick search in the blogosphere seems to agree with BrizCommuter (who used trains in the UK for 29 years!).
http://grimcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2007/04/please-be-quiet-were-in-quiet-carriage.html

BTW, is the quiet carriage also discrimination against young children?

[aldonius]

BTW, is the quiet carriage also discrimination against young children?

In a sense. It would be negative discrimination if the entire train was 'quiet'.
This is more a positive discrimination. Similar to 'girls in engineering' scholarships.

[SurfRail]

BTW, is the quiet carriage also discrimination against young children?

Notionally I would be boarding in the middle of the train anyway, particularly if I was alone and with a pram so I could get some assistance from the guard.

I don't see an issue as long as it is only one car per 3 car set.

[petey3801]

BTW, is the quiet carriage also discrimination against young children?

Notionally I would be boarding in the middle of the train anyway, particularly if I was alone and with a pram so I could get some assistance from the guard.

I don't see an issue as long as it is only one car per 3 car set.

A fair amount of parents with young children actually get on in the first car and sit Right. Behind. The. Driver... Not pleasant being the driver with screaming kids right behind you...

[Fares_Fair]

Should the doors be soundproof in your opinion?

[Gazza]

.Whilst they work well on booked seat long distance trains in Europe, they don't really work well on suburban rail systems

Haters gonna hate.

It worked just fine on C2C and Southwest Trains around London, having used both, and those are commuter systems.

I think quiet carriages are great. I always use them, If you want to talk, sit in the other 4, simple.

Really? A quick search in the blogosphere seems to agree with BrizCommuter (who used trains in the UK for 29 years!).
http://grimcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2007/04/please-be-quiet-were-in-quiet-carriage.html

BTW, is the quiet carriage also discrimination against young children?

Oh won't somebody please think of the children?
Is that the debating tactic now? Really?

Geez you make it out as if the whole train is like it.
Bro, there are FOUR other carriages to use.

Look, I couldn't care less about what the blogosphere says... The point is the quiet carriage still mostly works, even with the odd rule breaker, here in BRISBANE.
If it didn't I wouldn't make the effort to use it.

And what's this about QR having to "focus" on stage 2 timetables etc instead?
Does the bloke in the workshop who puts stickers in the carriages the same bloke who writes timetables and getting department approvals.

Organizations can walk and chew gum.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Depending on the rollingstock the soundproofing varies.

[petey3801]

Should the doors be soundproof in your opinion?

It would certainly be nice! Well, soundproofed from the passenger area at least... Sound of the traction motors etc. can be quite helpful to a driver, especially when it's wet and the tracks are slippery, makes it easier to monitor the wheelslip (while yes, we do have automatic systems that detect wheelslip and go some way to rectifying it, a good driver can generally hear the wheel slip before it actually happens and can try to prevent it).

[BrizCommuter]

Organizations can walk and chew gum.

QR quite obviously can't.

They can tell passengers about the quiet carriage changes, but can't be bothered to tell their passengers and even their own staff about some timetable changes.  It's quite laughable.

[Gazza]

Organizations can walk and chew gum.

QR quite obviously can't.

They can tell passengers about the quiet carriage changes, but can't be bothered to tell their passengers and even their own staff about some timetable changes.  It's quite laughable.

So what about the "multiple severe service disruptions"...
Are you saying not changing the quiet carriage/thinking about it, would have prevented these?
Are the track gangs the same people who put stickers up in carriages?

[BrizCommuter]

Organizations can walk and chew gum.

QR quite obviously can't.

They can tell passengers about the quiet carriage changes, but can't be bothered to tell their passengers and even their own staff about some timetable changes.  It's quite laughable.

So what about the "multiple severe service disruptions"...
Are you saying not changing the quiet carriage/thinking about it, would have prevented these?
Are the track gangs the same people who put stickers up in carriages?

Well, perceived reliability has been pretty bad recently including 2 all line stoppages, and many single line stoppages. Whilst the quiet carriage may not be responsibility of maintenance staff, it still appears to the general public that QR are concentrating on the fluff (quiet car, wi-fi) and not the essentials (frequent and reliable train service). Why is that train staff are repeating the quiet carriage announcement almost every station, yet haven't been informed to tell commuters about a service change?

[HappyTrainGuy]

I don't really care too much on the matter but the perceived public knowledge from comments and talking to/overhearing people don't know anything about the constraints placed on QR since Translink came to power, how QR works/structured internally (CityTrain/TravelTrain/rollingstock maint./track maint./track operations) prior/during/after the QR/QRN split, funding and why trains actually have wifi. Someone travelling on a train might think they installed wifi so they would be able to browse websites/facebook/twitter/email on their phone/laptop during their train trip but that's not their intended purpose behind the rollout hence the reason why it was dragged out for so long before mass public availabilty/full rollout on the fleet.