Quiet Car

[ozbob]

I have noticed a few 3 car sets on the Ippy today as well ...

[justanotheruser]

I have noticed a few 3 car sets on the Ippy today as well ...

I wonder if that was to do with flood waters?

[Nina M Blackwell]

It's me again, the "un-chilled" one!  School holidays are over so we have to deal with students who persist in ignoring the quiet carriage in the morning.  The students involved are from Lourdes Hill College and a school serviced by Brisbane Central (yes, the whole trip).  The girls wore white blouses with yellow piping on the short sleeve.  Can someone please identify this school for me?  The quiet carriage was abuzz with about a dozen students talking across the aisle and in the door area.

I'm sure I sound like an old f**t but there are four other cars on that particular train.

[mufreight]

Tolerance, courtesy and respect are all two way and the quiet car concept depends on courtesy and respect not regulation.       or on your :bi

[Nina M Blackwell]

Thanks for that....and at what stage do the students learn "respect" these days?

Anyway, today I sat right between the two loudest girls.  That helped...for a while.  I may do it again tomorrow...and the next day...we'll see.

[justanotheruser]

Thanks for that....and at what stage do the students learn "respect" these days?

Anyway, today I sat right between the two loudest girls.  That helped...for a while.  I may do it again tomorrow...and the next day...we'll see.

I find often what people seem to mean by respect is 'you do things my way'.  Kids are kids and just because years ago kids were expected to be seen and not heard does not make it right yet that seems to be what people are arguing.

[ozbob]

From the Courier Mail click here!

Loud ruckus over Queensland Rail's 'quiet' train carriages

Loud ruckus over Queensland Rail's 'quiet' train carriages

    * by Robyn Ironside
    * From: The Courier-Mail
    * February 19, 2011 12:00AM

A RUCKUS has broken out over Queensland Rail's "quiet carriages" because of a lack of enforcement of the new rules.

The front and back carriages of every service in the CityTrain network were designated as "quiet" last November after a three-month trial.

As a result, passengers are expected to refrain from using mobile phones or loud musical devices, or having loud conversations in the carriages.

But a lack of enforcement of the rules has seen some passengers take matters into their own hands, with a woman on the Cleveland line spotted sticking up her own laminated sign saying "Shhhh! Quiet carriage" in front of a man using a mobile phone.

Others have reported being "shushed" for talking softly to fellow passengers or failing to turn their phone on silent, while some commuters claim the noise level is no different to other carriages.

QR chief customer officer Theo Taifolas said there were no penalties for breaching the quiet carriage protocols which were "not designed to be implemented with a heavy hand".

"Our transit officers are responsible for patrolling the city network regarding security and fare evasion matters, (and) it would be inappropriate to divert their efforts to asking our customers to respect the protocols of the quiet carriage," he said.

Robert Dow from commuter advocacy group Back on Track said he was concerned the situation could escalate into violence.

"Why can't transit officers politely remind people they're in a quiet carriage?

"They're walking through the train anyway, it's nothing to remind people of the rules," said Mr Dow.

"It breeds resentment on both sides when people don't obey the rules and other passengers try to enforce them."

Mr Taifolas said commuters were being well informed of the rules of the quiet carriages, with 800 posters on trains and at ticket offices and "announcements during train journeys".

But contributors to the Back on Track website forum have complained the announcements defeat the purpose of the carriages.

"The 'quiet carriage' and rules of travelling in it are announced over the PA every other stop, taking about 30 seconds to complete, and louder than any conversation, phone call or music player," wrote one person.

"The routine stop announcements are also loud and often lengthy.

"The PA on trains is the loudest intrusion of all."

Mr Dow said QR should use more than a sign on the wall to enforce the rules.

[mufreight]

The Quiet car is a policy, it is not legslitated therefor it is not law and as such can not be enforced by anyone, the reality is that for the concept to operate without it being legslitated into law it depends on the consideration for others and respect, both sadly diminishing atributes in society today.

[justanotheruser]

having transit officers enforcing the rule is not a fair suggestion. After all what percentage of trains have transit officers on them? I know how often I see them so that gives me an idea. There will be plenty of trains without them to 'enforce' the rules. This is why the best suggestion is that they pay a person to enforce the rules which is funded through a surcharge by the people who use it. Make a book of ten tickets available and each time you get on the quiet carriage you give a ticket from the book to the person who enforces the rules. Easy.

[ozbob]

having transit officers enforcing the rule is not a fair suggestion.

I am not suggesting that, simply suggesting during ticket checks etc.  by TOs and SNOs (they also check for unruly behaviour, feet on seats, consumption of food etc.) where they encounter noisy folks in the quiet carriages just remind them it is the quiet carriage.  That is just courtesy.  That is well within their capabilities and I would think responsibilities. 

[#Metro]

I have a solution. It requires no new infrastructure and can be done now. (LOL  ).

Before every train arrives, there is an announcement isn't there?
You know, "The X train arriving on platform X will arrive in 2 minutes, please wait behind the yellow safety line" blah blah.

Instead of announcing Quiet Carriage inside the train, announce it on the platform using the recorded voice over.
"The X train arriving on platform X will arrive in 2 minutes, please wait behind the yellow safety line" The last carriage
of this train is the Quiet Carriage. How hard is that? Keep it short as possible as people tune out with long announcements.

The same could be done for new PID screens as well, simply flash up a slide that says "Quiet Carriage- last carriage" for 7 seconds
of whatever.

So cheap, so simple, so quick to do. There's no need to announce quiet carriage inside the train, except for long journeys maybe.
Do it on the platform. People will hear it twice before they get on (the 2 minute announcement, and then again as the train pulls up) and will see it on the screen.

[ozbob]

Good suggestions TT,  I am joining a 'quiet carriage' discussion on 4BC radio at around 10am this morning.  If the opportunity arises I might suggest that as an alternative to the onboard announcements.

[ozbob]

Short discussion on Quiet Carriages on 4BC radio this morning after the 10am news.  I suggested that TOs and SNOs would encourage Quiet Carriage rules where noise was encountered as part of their normal duties, and Mr Paul Scurrah CEO QR who followed me confirmed that as well.

I also raised TTs suggestions above, and was generally supportive of the Quiet Carriage concept based on the general feedback and observations.

http://www.translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/how-to/090422-guidelines-for-travel.pdf

http://www.queenslandrail.com.au/AboutUs/MediaCentre/Campaigns/Pages/QueenslandRailQuietCarriage.aspx

[#Metro]

 

[mufreight]

having transit officers enforcing the rule is not a fair suggestion.

I am not suggesting that, simply suggesting during ticket checks etc.  by TOs and SNOs (they also check for unruly behaviour, feet on seats, consumption of food etc.) where they encounter noisy folks in the quiet carriages just remind them it is the quiet carriage.  That is just courtesy.  That is well within their capabilities and I would think responsibilities. 

Unruly behaviour, Feet on seats and consumption of food are all covered under the railway by-laws, unfortunately the quiet carriage is no and depends of those travelling in that carriage showing some consideration and respect for others, that applies not only to those being noisy but I would think also for those who seek to enforce it, there is considerable difference between asking would you mind being quieter this is a quiet car than demanding.  The concept has its most definate merits but as it should depends on respect and consideration for others, by all means transit officers should remind people that it is a quiet car and again the manner in which that is done will either enhance the concept of diminish it.

[somebody]

having transit officers enforcing the rule is not a fair suggestion.

I am not suggesting that, simply suggesting during ticket checks etc.  by TOs and SNOs (they also check for unruly behaviour, feet on seats, consumption of food etc.) where they encounter noisy folks in the quiet carriages just remind them it is the quiet carriage.  That is just courtesy.  That is well within their capabilities and I would think responsibilities. 

Unruly behaviour, Feet on seats and consumption of food are all covered under the railway by-laws, unfortunately the quiet carriage is no and depends of those travelling in that carriage showing some consideration and respect for others, that applies not only to those being noisy but I would think also for those who seek to enforce it, there is considerable difference between asking would you mind being quieter this is a quiet car than demanding.  The concept has its most definate merits but as it should depends on respect and consideration for others, by all means transit officers should remind people that it is a quiet car and again the manner in which that is done will either enhance the concept of diminish it.

Got to agree.  It's ridiculous if the TO's aren't asking people to be quiet when they are being too loud.  Shame it's so open to interpretation.

[h8scrazytrainlady]

I have no problem with the quiet carriage. I enjoy being able to read my book in semi peace. What irks me is the rude lady on the Cleveland line. Screaming at people that its the quiet carriage defeats the purpose in itself. Funny this same lady told young girls off for talking early in the week then 10 minutes later proceeded to talk to a friend of her own. Friday was my last straw when she screamed at someone. So I said something politely to her to which she pushed the emergency button. Isn't that a fine-able offence? Yet she somehow feels she herself is above the rules of the quiet carriage or any queensland rail policy. 

[Fares_Fair]

I have no problem with the quiet carriage. I enjoy being able to read my book in semi peace. What irks me is the rude lady on the Cleveland line. Screaming at people that its the quiet carriage defeats the purpose in itself. Funny this same lady told young girls off for talking early in the week then 10 minutes later proceeded to talk to a friend of her own. Friday was my last straw when she screamed at someone. So I said something politely to her to which she pushed the emergency button. Isn't that a fine-able offence? Yet she somehow feels she herself is above the rules of the quiet carriage or any queensland rail policy. 

Why did she push the emergency button ?

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[ozbob]

Welcome,  yes the quiet carriages are generally a good idea overall.  Seems to work well on a number of rail systems worldwide.  Probably take a bit of time to become more embedded in SEQ.   There was some interest from Melbourne and now Sydney.  

I have seen folks get very upset with other things as well on trains besides quiet carriages.  Human nature being what it is nothing will be perfect.  Inappropriate use of the emergency button can attract a fine.

[h8scrazytrainlady]

Because I politely reminded her about her talking to her friend. I was not rude or intrusive unlike herself.

[BrizCommuter]

There is a reason why the vast majority of suburban rail systems do not have quiet carriages - they do not work for commuter rail. QR should stop flogging a dead horse and convincing themselves that it works.

The lady on the Cleveland Line train should be fined - unnecessary use of emergency button is totally unacceptable, and illegal.

The noisiest thing on my train today was a loud wheel flat. How about a wheel flat free train QR?

[#Metro]

I can't believe something so simple is so controversial.
Let it be. Some things are not worth arguing about.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Its also pointless considering the newer trains don't have doors to block sound so the sound just echoes from other carriages that aren't in the quiet zone.

[ozbob]

The fact remains the majority are broadly supportive of quiet carriages according to QR.  Just let it be and have a happy life is my intention, there will issues with anything if you look hard enough.  No food and drink appears to be an absolute but it is not.  Water seems to be permissible, another grey area.  Feet on seats, when someone runs around jumping on legs on seats we will know that planet earth is terminal ..    

Life on the 3' 6"  

[colinw]

I have had quite a bit of experience with quiet carriages on intercity services in the UK, mainly on the Great Western Main Line between London & Bristol.  In that context they do work well, and people seem to respect them for the most part, although you do still get the odd git who thinks his mobile phone conversation is worth broadcasting to the whole carriage.

I think they would work well on longer distance CityTrain in Queensland as well - Nambour & Gold Coast.  I'm less sure about the shorter suburban lines given the crowd on the train and the frequent announcements.

My pet peeve when I was still doing the Beenleigh line grind to the CBD was not actually noise, but the number of people with obnoxious odours.  Particularly the person I dubbed the "Altandi Garlic Man", who must have been popping garlic pills like they were lollies.  Once he sat right next to me and I had to get up & leave, or I would have thrown up.

[justanotheruser]

I have a solution. It requires no new infrastructure and can be done now. (LOL  ).

Before every train arrives, there is an announcement isn't there?
You know, "The X train arriving on platform X will arrive in 2 minutes, please wait behind the yellow safety line" blah blah.

Instead of announcing Quiet Carriage inside the train, announce it on the platform using the recorded voice over.
"The X train arriving on platform X will arrive in 2 minutes, please wait behind the yellow safety line" The last carriage
of this train is the Quiet Carriage. How hard is that? Keep it short as possible as people tune out with long announcements.

The same could be done for new PID screens as well, simply flash up a slide that says "Quiet Carriage- last carriage" for 7 seconds
of whatever.

So cheap, so simple, so quick to do. There's no need to announce quiet carriage inside the train, except for long journeys maybe.
Do it on the platform. People will hear it twice before they get on (the 2 minute announcement, and then again as the train pulls up) and will see it on the screen.

except this won't work as people ignore those announcements already. Just look at milton station at 16:34 each weekday and see how many people have to run from one platform to another because they paid no attention to the change of platform announcement.  Although in all fairness that train changes platforms more frequently than I've had hot dinners. QR's personal best is changing the platform 5 times. No wonder more and more people are choosing to wait on overhead bridge and race down when they see which platform it actually arrives on.

[justanotheruser]

The fact remains the majority are broadly supportive of quiet carriages according to QR.  Just let it be and have a happy life is my intention, there will issues with anything if you look hard enough.  No food and drink appears to be an absolute but it is not.  Water seems to be permissible, another grey area.  Feet on seats, when someone runs around jumping on legs on seats we will know that planet earth is terminal ..    

Life on the 3' 6"  

It is generally acknowledged now that you must allow people to have water. They can no longer stop you taking bottled ater into suncorp stadium provided it has not been opened previously (ensures it is water and not some other substitute.)

[HappyTrainGuy]

I have a solution. It requires no new infrastructure and can be done now. (LOL  ).

Before every train arrives, there is an announcement isn't there?
You know, "The X train arriving on platform X will arrive in 2 minutes, please wait behind the yellow safety line" blah blah.

Instead of announcing Quiet Carriage inside the train, announce it on the platform using the recorded voice over.
"The X train arriving on platform X will arrive in 2 minutes, please wait behind the yellow safety line" The last carriage
of this train is the Quiet Carriage. How hard is that? Keep it short as possible as people tune out with long announcements.

The same could be done for new PID screens as well, simply flash up a slide that says "Quiet Carriage- last carriage" for 7 seconds
of whatever.

So cheap, so simple, so quick to do. There's no need to announce quiet carriage inside the train, except for long journeys maybe.
Do it on the platform. People will hear it twice before they get on (the 2 minute announcement, and then again as the train pulls up) and will see it on the screen.

except this won't work as people ignore those announcements already. Just look at milton station at 16:34 each weekday and see how many people have to run from one platform to another because they paid no attention to the change of platform announcement.  Although in all fairness that train changes platforms more frequently than I've had hot dinners. QR's personal best is changing the platform 5 times. No wonder more and more people are choosing to wait on overhead bridge and race down when they see which platform it actually arrives on.

Its amazing how many people don't actually listen to the station announcements.

Southbank is another station. Everyone knows that the Gold Coast express trains depart from platform 3 in the arvos and the staff at the station announce it every couple minutes. But yet you still get people running and sometimes tripping/losing stuff as they sprint downhill at full tilt. If your ever bored in the arvo head on over to Southbank and watch the platform 3 shuffle.

The best instance I've seen of this was last year when I was waiting to catch an inbound train. Staff announce that "Any passengers on platform 1 should go to platform 3 for the Gold Coast express service that will depart from platform 3 in approx 10 minutes". The two girls look up and go back to eating/talking. "The Gold Coast express service will depart from platform 3 in approx 4 minutes. Any passengers waiting for the Gold Coast express service please move over to platform 3", one girl stood up and walked towards the yellow line. She looked towards South Brisbane then back to the station office then back to her friend and sat down. Another announcement comes over "The train arriving at platform 3 is a Gold Coast express service....." The same girl stands up and looks towards South Brisbane again and she does the runner to platform 3 leaving her friend to catch up. The train stops at the platform and they were both side by side at the top now running down to platform 3. About a 3/4 the way down one girl trips and has a slide down the ramp before getting helped up and limped onto the train which the guard obviously held up for her. About 30 seconds after the train left a message went over telling that people should not run along platforms and to stay behind the yellow line.

[Nina M Blackwell]

Get rid of the on board announcements.  As I've said before, they are lost on the people with headphones, talking on the phone or to each other.  Someone earlier wrote about LED signs.  That is a great idea.  This subject was discussed at length at the CRG meeting this week.  I had suggested decals on the windows but the issue of cars being repositioned keeps coming up.  At the meeting, someone came up with a solution as to which cars to make the quiet car so the signs will always be in the right place.  Then people will be able to just look for the "quiet carriage" and know exactly which car they are getting on.  If there are signs posted all along the windows inside the car, anyone can subtly say excuse me and point to the sign and it will be "loud and clear" to the offending person.  Peer pressure is the only way this will work. 

Also TRANSLINK please redirect your drivers to NOT make the announcement during the "express" portion (Park Road to Manly).  Several people complained last night that the booming voice of the Canadian driver jolted them out of a peaceful doze at a time when you could hear a pin drop and no new passengers would have boarded the train who did not hear the previous message.  He insisted that he was following the directive of TransLink.  Another case of bureaucrats making policy for things they don't use themselves.  IT MAKES NO SENSE!

[petey3801]

Get rid of the on board announcements.  As I've said before, they are lost on the people with headphones, talking on the phone or to each other.  Someone earlier wrote about LED signs.  That is a great idea.  This subject was discussed at length at the CRG meeting this week.  I had suggested decals on the windows but the issue of cars being repositioned keeps coming up.  At the meeting, someone came up with a solution as to which cars to make the quiet car so the signs will always be in the right place.  Then people will be able to just look for the "quiet carriage" and know exactly which car they are getting on.  If there are signs posted all along the windows inside the car, anyone can subtly say excuse me and point to the sign and it will be "loud and clear" to the offending person.  Peer pressure is the only way this will work. 

Also TRANSLINK please redirect your drivers to NOT make the announcement during the "express" portion (Park Road to Manly).  Several people complained last night that the booming voice of the Canadian driver jolted them out of a peaceful doze at a time when you could hear a pin drop and no new passengers would have boarded the train who did not hear the previous message.  He insisted that he was following the directive of TransLink.  Another case of bureaucrats making policy for things they don't use themselves.  IT MAKES NO SENSE!

The driver doesn't make the announcements, it is the guard. Also, Guards are given direct instructions on what to say/where to say it in regards to Quiet Car announcements and Trackwork announcements.

[HappyTrainGuy]

I disagree. Keep onboard announcements. Just because your in a quiet car doesn't mean you 'HAVE' to be silent. Its only a suggestion and common curtsey to fellow passengers. Its the reason why no one enforces it. It even states on the signs themselves that its only a curtsey. And because of this I don't see QR rushing to put LED screens in the trains for that reason. There can never be a permanent car dedicated as a quiet carriage (as in stickers and labels) because of the trains being split into 3/6 car configurations and operated from both ends. Only a select few EMU's can be assigned as a quiet car but when they operate as a 3 car at night it can't be assigned as a quiet car as that location then changes from the front to the carriage at the guards end.

Also this has nothing to do with translink. Its a QR idea so its totally up to them what they decide to do and how to implement it.

[justanotheruser]

I disagree. Keep onboard announcements. Just because your in a quiet car doesn't mean you 'HAVE' to be silent. Its only a suggestion and common curtsey to fellow passengers. Its the reason why no one enforces it. It even states on the signs themselves that its only a curtsey. And because of this I don't see QR rushing to put LED screens in the trains for that reason. There can never be a permanent car dedicated as a quiet carriage (as in stickers and labels) because of the trains being split into 3/6 car configurations and operated from both ends. Only a select few EMU's can be assigned as a quiet car but when they operate as a 3 car at night it can't be assigned as a quiet car as that location then changes from the front to the carriage at the guards end.

Also this has nothing to do with translink. Its a QR idea so its totally up to them what they decide to do and how to implement it.

Actually this is not correct. There is no suggestion to remain quiet at all. Quiet conversations are allowed and so is playing music at a soft volume.

Its amazing how many people don't actually listen to the station announcements.

As I said not really amazing when they constantly change the platform a train will be departing from back and forth. Or perhaps that is just the Qld governments way of making us all exercise!

[somebody]

I disagree. Keep onboard announcements. Just because your in a quiet car doesn't mean you 'HAVE' to be silent. Its only a suggestion and common curtsey to fellow passengers. Its the reason why no one enforces it. It even states on the signs themselves that its only a curtsey. And because of this I don't see QR rushing to put LED screens in the trains for that reason. There can never be a permanent car dedicated as a quiet carriage (as in stickers and labels) because of the trains being split into 3/6 car configurations and operated from both ends. Only a select few EMU's can be assigned as a quiet car but when they operate as a 3 car at night it can't be assigned as a quiet car as that location then changes from the front to the carriage at the guards end.

You have to wonder why the suggestion to make the quiet cars the 2nd and 5th cars wasn't taken on.

Actually this is not correct. There is no suggestion to remain quiet at all. Quiet conversations are allowed and so is playing music at a soft volume.

You can only play music through headphones at soft volume.

As I said not really amazing when they constantly change the platform a train will be departing from back and forth. Or perhaps that is just the Qld governments way of making us all exercise!

I don't understand this either.

[justanotheruser]

Actually this is not correct. There is no suggestion to remain quiet at all. Quiet conversations are allowed and so is playing music at a soft volume.

You can only play music through headphones at soft volume.

yes I did forget to mention headphones so my point should have read you can play music at soft volume if using headphones

[MaxHeadway]

As I said not really amazing when they constantly change the platform a train will be departing from back and forth. Or perhaps that is just the Qld governments way of making us all exercise!

I don't understand this ...

Because several stations have the platforms in an up-down-up-down arrangment, so if a train has to use a different platform to the usual one, you'll have to cross a bridge or use a pedestrian subway to get to it in time. If there are island platforms with an up-up-down-down setup, you just stay put and you'll be fine.

[somebody]

As I said not really amazing when they constantly change the platform a train will be departing from back and forth. Or perhaps that is just the Qld governments way of making us all exercise!

I don't understand this ...

Because several stations have the platforms in an up-down-up-down arrangment, so if a train has to use a different platform to the usual one, you'll have to cross a bridge or use a pedestrian subway to get to it in time. If there are island platforms with an up-up-down-down setup, you just stay put and you'll be fine.

It's also done at Roma St #4 & #5, Roma St #6 & #7.

Island platforms with up-up-down-down would be far preferable, and there are flyovers on the Sydney Western Line to make this possible.

[Nina M Blackwell]

It is unfortunate that Queensland Rail ALMOST got it right with the Quiet Carrage but not quite.  During the Community Reference Group ("CRG") meetings from the beginning two years ago, I was one of the people who asked for a "Reading Car" as a "wish list" item.  If one car (as originally) had been allocated for READING, then there would be "no talking" at all and there would not be this room for interpretation.

If people were "considerate of their fellow passengers" and used common sense instead of doing only what they are used to doing, they would observe that by and large, passengers using the Quiet Carriage are quietly reading, working on their iPads, iphones etc and most, but not all, are using headphones that cannot be heard by everyone else.  It boggles the mind as to why two people would want to carry on an hour-long conversation when theirs are the only voices carried through the whole carriage. Why is it too much to ask for to have them choose one of the other four carriages in the morning?

By the way, "courtesy" means acting a certain way in public - not like hoons - so that the "courtesy" expected in a quiet zone should be at even a higher level.

BTW - curtsey - means to genuflect to royalty or to an elder.  And "your" should be 'you're".

[aldonius]

@somebody: obvious answer why not to make 2nd and/or 5th carriages 'quiet' is that being the middle ones they get a lot more inter-carriage traffic.

[somebody]

@somebody: obvious answer why not to make 2nd and/or 5th carriages 'quiet' is that being the middle ones they get a lot more inter-carriage traffic.

Maybe.  But there is a need for permanent signage in the quiet carriage isn't there?  Maybe they should abolish 3 car services, even on weekends and evenings.

[Derwan]

Maybe they should abolish 3 car services, even on weekends and evenings.

What would this do?  Configurations will changed.  The first car one day might be the forth car the next day, because the 3-car set becomes the trailing 3-car set instead of the lead one.