Feedback on timetable issues

[ozbob]

Feedback received, thanks.

My gripe at the moment is that I live in Keperra and travel by Bus & Train to Southbank Station , as work in the Gabba .

1.     Going there is not a problem I walk 10 mins to get a bus to Keperra Station  which links up to the train – all good .

2.     Where I have the problem and as do many other commuters do , is in my case I get the 4.52pm  Train from Southbank which is scheduled to arrive at Keperra at 5.30pm , the LAST bus from the Station which would take me once again within a 10 min walk to my house is at 5.31pm . obviously if the train is  a couple of mins late , I miss it , which invariably happens  I have to walk 1 & ½ Ks to home .

I feel that to have the last service during the week from Keperra Station at 5.31pm is unrealistic , this service goes on from keperra tp Gt. Western Shopping Centre  and then the Gap . From my experience the trains are virtually full up to at least 6pm on week days .

The other thing , which I have complained to QR about is that at Southbank Station from Platform #2 ( The Ferny Grove Train leaves from and I catch ) there is no signage as to train arrival times . There is a sign across on Platform # 1 but is blocked from view when trains arrive on this platform and also in the afternoon the sun is on it so you can't read it . The other thing at Southbank is that on Platforms 2 & 3 there is never any staff and no toilet facilities . To get any attention you have to yell out across the tracks to get the attention of Rail Staff , as I have had to do on a couple of occasions when the Translink Ticket Machine was not working .

[#Metro]

A proper feeder bus network connects to EVERY train.
The strength of a feeder bus terminating at a rail station, is that the bus can be held to wait for the train.
All it takes is communication between bus and rail, and dynamic, real-time co-ordination.

The other thing , which I have complained to QR about is that at Southbank Station from Platform #2 ( The Ferny Grove Train leaves from and I catch ) there is no signage as to train arrival times . There is a sign across on Platform # 1 but is blocked from view when trains arrive on this platform and also in the afternoon the sun is on it so you can't read it . The other thing at Southbank is that on Platforms 2 & 3 there is never any staff and no toilet facilities . To get any attention you have to yell out across the tracks to get the attention of Rail Staff , as I have had to do on a couple of occasions when the Translink Ticket Machine was not working .

Toilets! They should be Go Card activated after hours. Many times I have been caught on a train 30 minutes journey and then got off at the station... and the toilet is locked up! 

[Golliwog]

Wasn't sure where to put this, and the OTP threads are locked, so here looked good. I got to Central this arvo and went down to platofmr 3/4 to catch a FG train as per usual. There was one currently sitting on p3 with the screen saying it was due to leave in 8 minutes. I hopped on, then within 30 seconds the door were closing and we left. Not sure what was up, whether the screen was wrong or the train was running early as I don't know the timetable. I didn't mind as I was on the service but it must have sucked for those that were planning on catching the service but missed it. I belive this was somewhere a bit before 6pm.

[Stillwater]

Although not a timetabling issue, well maybe, it would be helpful if each of the Railbus services between Caboolture and Nambour on the Sunshine Coast Line displayed a simple card on the windscreen showing the stopping places in between.  You can easily hop on a Railbus, thinking it goes to your (intermediate) stop, but not all buses do.  Some bypass Elimbah and Beerburrum, others express through Mooloolah, Eudlo, Palmwoods and Woombye.  You have got to have your wits about you, or always ask the bus driver, or consult the timetable carefully.  Having cards printed won't break the bank and would be very helpful as a visual confirmation of what stops the bus will make.

[#Metro]

Although not a timetabling issue, well maybe, it would be helpful if each of the Railbus services between Caboolture and Nambour on the Sunshine Coast Line displayed a simple card on the windscreen showing the stopping places in between.  You can easily hop on a Railbus, thinking it goes to your (intermediate) stop, but not all buses do.  Some bypass Elimbah and Beerburrum, others express through Mooloolah, Eudlo, Palmwoods and Woombye.  You have got to have your wits about you, or always ask the bus driver, or consult the timetable carefully.  Having cards printed won't break the bank and would be very helpful as a visual confirmation of what stops the bus will make.

Isn't it crazy?

[Fares_Fair]

Going Home ...

Can anyone tell me why Translink are proposing to put the current Roma St 5:14pm service back to leave at 5:02pm [earlier than current service] so that the bulk of the 5pm commuters cannot leave until 5:47pm.
No extra service at peak hour - in fact they have just spaced the existing services further apart.

It appears to me to be just "collateral" damage from the proposed changes.

QR staff working in the building overhead (at Central) may get there in time for it, but not 5pm knock-off city commuters. Who would, IMHO, probably make up the bulk of commuters.

TransLINK also propose to reduce the express leg down to only 9 stations from the current 20,
our service is already suffering overcrowding as it is, how will this improve things?
It'll be called the sardine express.

How will this encourage us to take up public transport?
This governments approach is reprehensible in regard to its' ability to service the sunshine coast region.

5pm knock-off city commuters now have to wait until 5:47pm [later than the current 2 services]
to catch an express service home. I already have to stand from Bowen Hills to Caboolture on most trips home.
Now it will be even more packed.

I am appalled at the impact on the sunshine coaster's already huge commuter day.

This is just for the trip home – stay tuned for the trip into the CBD saga.
It makes "Days of our Lives" seem like months.

More to come ...

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Fares_Fair]

Although not a timetabling issue, well maybe, it would be helpful if each of the Railbus services between Caboolture and Nambour on the Sunshine Coast Line displayed a simple card on the windscreen showing the stopping places in between.  You can easily hop on a Railbus, thinking it goes to your (intermediate) stop, but not all buses do.  Some bypass Elimbah and Beerburrum, others express through Mooloolah, Eudlo, Palmwoods and Woombye.  You have got to have your wits about you, or always ask the bus driver, or consult the timetable carefully.  Having cards printed won't break the bank and would be very helpful as a visual confirmation of what stops the bus will make.

Couldn't agree more Stillwater ... the information needs to be out there.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Sunbus610]

TL 'draft' timetable change feedback link http://www.zoomerang.com/Survey/WEB22BHJGZ2XRL/

[somebody]

Although not a timetabling issue, well maybe, it would be helpful if each of the Railbus services between Caboolture and Nambour on the Sunshine Coast Line displayed a simple card on the windscreen showing the stopping places in between.  You can easily hop on a Railbus, thinking it goes to your (intermediate) stop, but not all buses do.  Some bypass Elimbah and Beerburrum, others express through Mooloolah, Eudlo, Palmwoods and Woombye.  You have got to have your wits about you, or always ask the bus driver, or consult the timetable carefully.  Having cards printed won't break the bank and would be very helpful as a visual confirmation of what stops the bus will make.

Different stopping pattern - different route number, I say.  There's not really much reason I can see to have these expresses.

[Stillwater]

I take it that the release of a revised Ipswich-Caboolture timetable, rumoured to be ready in about a month's time, will be the final response, with no further correspondence entered into.  It will be interesting to see whether Translink/QR will put it out there as a 'take it or leave it' effort, or hold another round of community meetings to explain what they heard in the earlier round of consultation, how they listened and what positive steps they took.  They may be a little shy of doing the latter, but it would be good for their corporate images, not to mention the relatuionship with customers, to put in the effort.

Once the timetable is ready, maybe that's the time for RailBOT members to start thinking about how the timetables themselves should look like, and what information (ie connecting bus information, maps etc) should be included.

[ozbob]

Consultation was extensive.  I hope they now just move on with it.  I do expect a number of changes but none-the-less there will no doubt be some who are not happy (e.g. consequences of express pattern rationalisation).  Changes will be made to the draft timings particularly on Sunshine Coast and Rosewood timetables.

[#Metro]

Improvements! 

I don't feel the need to quibble with the timetable- if there are extra trains, that is a good thing.
I feel the need to say that the timetables at the stations need to be simplified right down to look like
bus timetables.

More information on the local bus routes is also needed. TransLink has already done this to an extent with the busway stops, they need to apply this to the rail system.
Put in a BUZ map as well.

[Stillwater]

I am wondering when the new printed timetables will be available for the Ipswich and Caboolture/Sunshine Coast lines?  It would be an excellent example of customer liaison if some mock-ups were made available electronically to RAIL Back On Track so that people could comment and suggestions taken on board.  Here's the first few lines of the media release, so that someone's thought processes are stimulated.

QR/Translink will make available samples of its new rail timetables for the Caboolture, Sunshine Coast and Ipswich/Rosewood lines to a group of 500 customers to test legibility, prominence and usefulness of the information displayed ahead of printing thousands of copies of the new train schedule to take effect from June 6.

"We think we know what our customers want, but we thought we would ask them just to make sure," a spokesperson said.  Some initial feedback has sought more information that demonstrates how train services interact with buses, and also where the interchanges are located and what facilities they contain.  We know that if we make our printed timetables and their electronic equivalents more user friendly, people will feel more confortable about using our network.  That translates into more passengers, with a corresponding transfer of people from road to rail.

"With fuel prices going up, we realise the extra 150,000 seats that Translink has made across our network will be filled by many people who will be using our timetables for the first time.  That's another reason to get it right and have timetables that a easy to read and have all the information people require to make choices about public transport travel," he/she said.   ...... and so on.

Over to you, QR/Translink.

[somebody]

PDF timetables are up!

[Nina M Blackwell]

I saw somewhere that effective in June, a few slight changes have been made to the Cleveland timetable.  I only focussed on the services that I use, namely morning and evening peak commute times.  It appeared that the 7.19 express from Ormiston has been changed to 7.24.  If there had been a consultation, the first thing I was going to say was the morning commute services are TOO LATE.  Arrival at Central on the so-called express at 7.19 does not allow walking time to be on time for work at 8.30 so I've been taking the 7.13 all stations.  That arrives at Central on average anywhere between 8.13 am and 8.16, barely enough time to grab a coffee and make it to Riparian Plaza.  The morning commute needs to be shifted back so that the express at 7.19 becomes a last-resort commute train leaving Ormiston at 7.15 am.  That way, folks who want to get to work a little bit earlier can grab the all stations at something like 7.05.

The express at 5.19 pm is actually perfect. I just wish there was one earlier train just after 5.00 pm that went all the way to Cleveland.

[Fares_Fair]

Announced as Today Only.
6:14am Nambour train to run express Petrie to BH stopping at NGate only. Test run perhaps to ease overcrowding ? regards, Fares_Fair

[ozbob]

Announced as Today Only.
6:14am Nambour train to run express Petrie to BH stopping at NGate only. Test run perhaps to ease overcrowding ? regards, Fares_Fair

Interesting,  was the train late?

[Fares_Fair]

This service normally express only Petrie to NGate. regards, Fares_Fair.

[ozbob]

This service normally express only Petrie to NGate. regards, Fares_Fair.

Yes, but was the train late?  Sometimes patterns are changed on the move to make up lost time.  It would be significant if the train was on time, if the train was late it would probably mean just a  change to make up time.

[Fares_Fair]

No more than 5 minutes late. Regards, Fares_Fair.

[ozbob]

OK, thanks.

[Fares_Fair]

We also arrived at a different platform this morning, platform 5 I think it was.
We have been late quite often by approx. 5-8 minutes, and were so again this morning.

I would not have thought that they were overly concerned to change a train service for a small degree of punctuality.
Interesting development, hence my test run theory.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[somebody]

5 minutes late might be enough to throw other services out though.

Platforms 5 at Central would be normal.  I assume you mean #5 at Roma St.  Sounds like you used the suburbans.

[Fares_Fair]

5 minutes late might be enough to throw other services out though.

Platforms 5 at Central would be normal.  I assume you mean #5 at Roma St.  Sounds like you used the suburbans.

Hello Simon,

Yes, you are right it was normal platform #5 at Central.
We were confused as we all emerged from a different location along that platform, some 50m north of normal.

We have been late virtually every day since the new timetable, but only of the order of 5-8 minutes.

Regards,
Fares-Fair.

[somebody]

I think it is disappointing that Eagle Junction wasn't served.  They need to get rid of the idea that Northgate is more important than Eagle Junction.

Where is the time lost?  Is it all in the single track section?

Perhaps the following was express Eagle Jct-BH to get back closer to time.

[kazzac]

there should be improved train timetables that allows changing from one line to another,I mentioned in another post I have to change from Cleveland to Beenleigh line to travel to work,in afternoons I cant do this as an inbound train departs Salisbury station at 3.34pm[I finish work at 3.30pm,my workplace is a 10 minute walk away from station] and the next svc isnt until 4,08pm.When i did catch this one i then had a 20 minute wait for the next o/b Cleveland svc.Now I get a lift in afternoon to SE busway stn at Holl Pk West,Catch a p88 or a 160 ib svc,hop off at Buranda and catch an earlier Cleveland train thats gets me to M'side about 4.10pm instead of 4.55pm.I have a long enough day as it is!

[Gazza]

This is where high frequency comes in. If all lines ran every 15 minutes, it means an average wait of only 7.5 mins when changing trains.

[kazzac]

Bowen Hills svc that departs Morningside station at 5.29am 5 Minutes late today!As I only have a 3 minute "window" for changing to Beenleigh line at Park Rd stn meant that I missed Beenleigh train[at 5.43am]Not happy Qld Rail!had to hop off at Buranda ,catch an o/b 111 svc to Holland Pk w busway stn,then a taxi the rest of the way!Something has to be done here,I"m not the only one whom changes at Park Rd station to catch this Beenleigh svc.  there isnt another svc until 6.13am 

[STB]

Bowen Hills svc that departs Morningside station at 5.29am 5 Minutes late today!As I only have a 3 minute "window" for changing to Beenleigh line at Park Rd stn meant that I missed Beenleigh train[at 5.43am]Not happy Qld Rail!had to hop off at Buranda ,catch an o/b 111 svc to Holland Pk w busway stn,then a taxi the rest of the way!Something has to be done here,I"m not the only one whom changes at Park Rd station to catch this Beenleigh svc.  there isnt another svc until 6.13am 

3 mins is not meant to be a connection.  5 mins however is.  QR already knows about the non-connection between Cleveland and Beenleigh and Gold Coast trains though and have said that they would look at fixing it when they do the next timetable review on the suburban lines (Cleveland, Doomben, Shorncliffe, Gold Coast, Beenleigh).

[BrizCommuter]

there should be improved train timetables that allows changing from one line to another,I mentioned in another post I have to change from Cleveland to Beenleigh line to travel to work,in afternoons I cant do this as an inbound train departs Salisbury station at 3.34pm[I finish work at 3.30pm,my workplace is a 10 minute walk away from station] and the next svc isnt until 4,08pm.When i did catch this one i then had a 20 minute wait for the next o/b Cleveland svc.Now I get a lift in afternoon to SE busway stn at Holl Pk West,Catch a p88 or a 160 ib svc,hop off at Buranda and catch an earlier Cleveland train thats gets me to M'side about 4.10pm instead of 4.55pm.I have a long enough day as it is!

It is impossible for everyone to have perfect connections. With so many network constraints limiting the flexibility of timetables, connections can only be an afterthought.

[kazzac]

,I realize it isnt easy to have connections with all lines at all times.as I said I'm not the only one whom changes at Park RD station at that time of the morning,most of these other pax like myself   are travelling to the outer suburbs/industrial areas for work and NOT to the CBD.as soon as I can afford to buy another car I will,can travel to/from work in half the time then!

[SurfRail]

,I realize it isnt easy to have connections with all lines at all times.as I said I'm not the only one whom changes at Park RD station at that time of the morning,most of these other pax like myself   are travelling to the outer suburbs/industrial areas for work and NOT to the CBD.as soon as I can afford to buy another car I will,can travel to/from work in half the time then!

Exactly why we keep pushing for frequency.  Frequent services are a much better outcome than a network which is clockwork and perfectly coordinated, because with higher frequency it doesn't matter which service you are after - any will do because they are coming soon, and headways between connections come down. 

[somebody]

,I realize it isnt easy to have connections with all lines at all times.as I said I'm not the only one whom changes at Park RD station at that time of the morning,most of these other pax like myself   are travelling to the outer suburbs/industrial areas for work and NOT to the CBD.as soon as I can afford to buy another car I will,can travel to/from work in half the time then!

Exactly why we keep pushing for frequency.  Frequent services are a much better outcome than a network which is clockwork and perfectly coordinated, because with higher frequency it doesn't matter which service you are after - any will do because they are coming soon, and headways between connections come down. 

Hear here!

Frankly, I do not see what is special or unique about this situation?  A poor connection between one infrequent off peak service and another.  It happens every day, many times, and far more often than it should.

[STB]

Oh I remember the day I asked the Planner (at the time - he no longer is at QR AFAIK), about the non-connection between the Cleveland/Beenleigh/Gold Coast trains at Park Road, his response (paraphrasing - in 2006/7): Oh, not many change at Park Rd, we need to service the majority going to the city, not the minority.

[Gazza]

How would enabling connections affect CBD bound pax?

[STB]

How would enabling connections affect CBD bound pax?

I think it was more of a case of a lazy Planner.  Said Planner also didn't fix up the section times between Park Rd and Buranda, was told that the 4mins was meant for peak hour and 2mins for off peak, ended up the wrong way around and he didn't fix it.

[kazzac]

my only other option[according to TL]in the mornings is to catch an inbound 230 service from Riding Rd about 5.19am,hop off at Southbank and transfer to Beenleigh service from there,but that doesnt work out if the bus is late arriving at Southbank station :(sometimes when I've done this had to walk very quickly to train station.

[BrizCommuter]

Lets look at this logically, before even considering the connections at Park Road, the off-peak/counter-peak phase 2 timetable has to be timetabled around the following constraints (probably not a complete list):

• Avoid conflicts on Airport Line single track
• Avoid conflicts on Coomera to Helensvale single track
• Avoid conflicts on Cleveland Line single track sections
• Avoid conflicts on Shorncliffe Line single track
• Sufficient time for Gold Coast express services to catch up Beenleigh Line services
• Adequate dwell times at 8 termini
• Adequate spacing between services through CBD
• Ferny Grove services have to be 15mins apart (phase 2 may also be designed to allow the addition of 15 mins on other lines at later date)
• Non passenger train movements

[techblitz]

My gripe at the moment is that I live in Keperra and travel by Bus & Train to Southbank Station , as work in the Gabba .

1.     Going there is not a problem I walk 10 mins to get a bus to Keperra Station  which links up to the train – all good .

2.     Where I have the problem and as do many other commuters do , is in my case I get the 4.52pm  Train from Southbank which is scheduled to arrive at Keperra at 5.30pm , the LAST bus from the Station which would take me once again within a 10 min walk to my house is at 5.31pm . obviously if the train is  a couple of mins late , I miss it , which invariably happens  I have to walk 1 & ½ Ks to home .

I feel that to have the last service during the week from Keperra Station at 5.31pm is unrealistic , this service goes on from keperra tp Gt. Western Shopping Centre  and then the Gap . From my experience the trains are virtually full up to at least 6pm on week days

I have complained twice to translink about this bus route (362) and they feel nothing should be done with this bus route as its all good
It involves its  timetable connections with the train and the inbound service from `the gap to brookside`
There needs to be a 10 minute gap from the time the bus arrives @ the station until the time the train departs.

This counter acts against late arrivals,extra passengers and other unforseen circumstances. On this bus service most of the time its done in return cycles,which means once a driver does his run from brookside to the gap he turns around and does the return run. If a driver is held up on his intital run it then flows on to his return run. Delays on this route are something users have to get used to.

If there is a delay...going from brookside to the gap is no probs as it connects with 385 (15 mins). But delays in the other direction usually means arriving at keperra station when the gate is beeping and the train you wanted to catch is pulling up at keperra. (nothing is more insulting than having to wait a full 30 mins for the next train )This has happend to me multiple times and ive also seen other r362 commuters running through the boom/crossing gates to make the oncoming train.

One only has to take a look at the timetable to see how jumbled up and unstructured the connection times are with the train.Ive posted an example of the mon-fri 362 inbound timetable

Arrival Keperra Station 7:25 8:14 9:00 9:45 10:48 11:48 12:48 2:16 2:54 3:53 5:17
Train departs Keperra  7:30 8:24 9:05 10:04 11:02 12:02 1:02 2:32 3:02 4:02 5:32
Time gap between       (5)    (10)  (5)   (19)    (14)   (14)  (14)  (16)  ( 8 )  (9)   (15)

A 7:25 late connection is no probs as trains are usually 15 mins but that 9.05 connection is the gripe as your waiting till 9.32 for the next train if the bus is late.Some days u make the 9:05..... the next day,bus late ,too bad ur catching the 9:32.  <<<< insulting because its something that can be fixed!!

ps: the saturday timetable runs entirely on a 7 minute gap. This problem mainly effects customers going from the gap/keperra to northern/airport suburbs

[somebody]

If the election promise is fulfilled there will be a 15 minute frequency on the Ferny Grove line.  Weekday daytimes at least.