BrizCommuter Blog

[BrizCommuter]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/06/why-do-all-trains-now-stop-between.html
Why do all trains now stop between Northgate and Bowen Hills?

[ozbob]

Nice explanation.  I suggested a number of times to TransLink and Queensland Rail during the consultations etc. that explanations for the rationale/basis of the new timetables be made widely available.  I am sure that would have been of great benefit to all.  Hopefully they will learn from this phase one implementation and be a little more forthcoming next time around ...

[BrizCommuter]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/06/new-timetables-one-week-later.html
New timetables - how are they going?

[BrizCommuter]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/06/phase-2-timetable-speculation-part-1.html
Phase 2 timetable speculation/foaming - part 1.

[BrizCommuter]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/06/phase-2-timetable-speculation-part-2.html
Phase 2 timetable speculation/foaming - part 2.

[BrizCommuter]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/06/15-minute-off-peak-when-and-where.html
15 minutes off-peak - whats the score?

[BrizCommuter]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/06/transparent-as-brick-wall.html
TransLink - transparent as a brick wall?

[BrizCommuter]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/06/translink-ghost-train-to-tennyson.html
Roll up, roll up, for the TransLink Ghost Train. One of the worlds most expensive Ghost Trains, and you can't even ride!

[BrizCommuter]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/07/so-where-are-candos-public-transport.html
So where are they?

[colinw]

The LNP has a public transport policy? 

[BrizCommuter]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/07/queensland-infrastructure-plan.html
Queensland Infrastructure Plan

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/07/climate-is-right-for-trains.html
Carbon Tax

[Gazza]

Many SE Queensland Commuters would have noticed train manufacturer Bombardier's adverts in the mX recently

Its definitely going to make me choose a Bombardier when I''m in the market for a new train.

[BrizCommuter]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/08/10-days-later.html
Yet another fixed fare, yet another 10 day wait for a refund!

[BrizCommuter]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/08/busway-to-rbwh-terrible-twos.html
2 years on, and still overcrowded?

[BrizCommuter]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/08/what-are-you-searching-for.html
Google can tell you a lot about what people want to know about Public Transport!

[BrizCommuter]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/09/what-can-brisbane-learn-from-middle-of.html
What can Brisbane learn from the middle of nowhere?

[BrizCommuter]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/10/value-for-money.html
Is Brisbane's rail network value for money?

[#Metro]

What about the time value of money.  A wait of 30 minutes = demand effectively if it were priced at $10 a ticket... plus there is journey time.

I think you can value waiting time at 1.5x to 2.5x journey time.

Some people may scoff at attaching $ value to time and say that you wouldn't be earning money at that point. This is not the point. The reason why I do this is because it allows you to model demand. So a waiting time = 0 would increase the demand as if the price of the ticket was lowered significantly.

[colinw]

I think people intuitively understand this trade off, as is shown by the huge surge in patronage on BUZ routes and the small part of the Brisbane network with quarter hourly offpeak services.  Out here in Beenleigh Line nether-nether land, the normal way of thinking is "stuff it, I can be there in the car before the next train comes".

Brisbane's frequency & fare structure only makes sense if the long term strategy is to minimise use of the rail system to avoid investment in further infrastructure & trains.

[somebody]

I think people intuitively understand this trade off, as is shown by the huge surge in patronage on BUZ routes and the small part of the Brisbane network with quarter hourly offpeak services.  Out here in Beenleigh Line nether-nether land, the normal way of thinking is "stuff it, I can be there in the car before the next train comes".

Brisbane's frequency & fare structure only makes sense if the long term strategy is to minimise use of the rail system to avoid investment in further infrastructure & trains.

Joining in the chorus on the structure being the problem, as opposed to the fare levels?

[colinw]

By structure I mean excessively high fares for short journeys (e.g. $3.11 to go only a few km on a bus in peak), non-existent daily capping (compare MyWay card in ACT), short transfer timeout relative to service frequency (one missed connection in an hourly bus area and you're done), and insufficient price differential between peak & off-peak fares, excessive number of zones (3 zones in metropolitan Brisbane with maybe 8 covering all the way to Gold Coast would do).

All of this is important, as is the over all LEVEL of fares as you point out.

The combination of fares, service frequency & structure in Brisbane adds to an enormous disincentive to use public transport, thereby minimising patronage, and thus introducing a negative feedback loop which makes the system ever less economic to run.

Lowering fares is only part of the picture.  If you don't fix the frequency and structure you're only discounting rotten apples (to borrow a phrase from TramTrain).

[HappyTrainGuy]

Which is why trains and busses should each be operating under different fare structures.

[Golliwog]

Which is why trains and busses should each be operating under different fare structures.

What happens with integrated ticketing?

[#Metro]

The largest cost in public transport is waiting time and journey time.

A trip of identical journey time that involves waiting 30 minutes vs one that involves waiting 5 minutes will have different levels of demand even though the ticket price is identical. We can see this with the BUZ where simply decreasing the waiting time (journey times and ticket prices remain constant/unchanged) results in a massive patronage spike. This is where attaching values to time becomes very important for demand modelling purposes.

If you have a really really rotten apple route (105 Yeronga Loop Safari, 414 Tour-de-Taringa) you could make it free or even have to pay people to catch it because they have to spend time over and above the nominal ticket price.

This is why I laugh every time TL comes up with a ridiculous graph purporting to compare "car vs PT" "costs". It just doesn't make real world sense- and you can even see this by the simple fact that most people travel by car, except during peak hour when congestion raises the car journey times.

They don't seem to know basic economics! People decide whether to make a trip based on how much it would cost to take one more/the next trip. So petrol prices matter (carbon tax issue here- special treatment means that PT patronage would be lower than what it would be without, so difference in emissions there) and not just the ticket price but waiting time and journey time..

[SurfRail]

Which is why trains and busses should each be operating under different fare structures.

Why?  That would make rail fares more expensive, if anything.  The only services which generate a positive return are the busier bus routes in Brisbane and on the Gold Coast.

[somebody]

By structure I mean excessively high fares for short journeys (e.g. $3.11 to go only a few km on a bus in peak), non-existent daily capping (compare MyWay card in ACT), short transfer timeout relative to service frequency (one missed connection in an hourly bus area and you're done), and insufficient price differential between peak & off-peak fares, excessive number of zones (3 zones in metropolitan Brisbane with maybe 8 covering all the way to Gold Coast would do).

All of this is important, as is the over all LEVEL of fares as you point out.

The combination of fares, service frequency & structure in Brisbane adds to an enormous disincentive to use public transport, thereby minimising patronage, and thus introducing a negative feedback loop which makes the system ever less economic to run.

Lowering fares is only part of the picture.  If you don't fix the frequency and structure you're only discounting rotten apples (to borrow a phrase from TramTrain).

While I agree about your comments on short journeys especially, I would disagree on the capping.  I would say capping will reduce fare revenue overall.  I cannot see another outcome.  If you are going to do that, I'd rather reduce the base fare which is the main disincentive to PT use.

As for off peak, while I agree with your comments, it is hard to argue simultaneously for better services and cheaper ones.  Or at least we need to pick which is the MOST important.  While operating costs per bus/train trip are lower off peak, so are loadings which mutes the argument somewhat IMO.

Which is why trains and busses should each be operating under different fare structures.

No way.

[Cam]

Which is why trains and busses should each be operating under different fare structures.

Please explain?

[HappyTrainGuy]

Because they are two different modes of transport. Having one fare structure from Gympie to the border from Toowoomba to the coast line penalises everyone that wants to make a short trip. If I want to make a quick trip over the Brisbane river or if I want to pop out to the shops a couple hundred metres down the road I have to fork out a minimum of $2.30 off peak Or $4 for a bit of paper. You can still use the gocard but just apply different zones and it will calculate the price when you touch on/off. TZoneX for trains and BZoneX for busses. If your going to be using paper tickets then that's the effort your going to have to put in because your too lazy to do research/apply common knowledge or to read any of the advertisments on busses/boats/stations/trains. Either make a different zone structure for different PT types or reduce the ticket prices for shorter trips by adding more zones.

[Cam]

reduce the ticket prices for shorter trips

I agree with this. I have considered catching a bus to destinations that are just a few hundred metres away during storms but have decided against it due to the relative high cost of short trips. In January, the minimum peak fare will be $3.05 & it's scheduled to be more than $4 just two years later.

[somebody]

It is possible to reduce the flag fall without undoing the integrated fare gains which have been made in the past few years.

[O_128]

I still believe that trips within 1 zone only should be free massively discounted

[somebody]

I still believe that trips within 1 zone only should be free massively discounted

Free Transit zone a la Perth?  I'd think South Bank-Roma St-Fortitude Valley.  It does partly close the loophole with the FUD for long distance users.

[SurfRail]

I still believe that trips within 1 zone only should be free massively discounted

Free Transit zone a la Perth?  I'd think South Bank-Roma St-Fortitude Valley.  It does partly close the loophole with the FUD for long distance users.

Hey! 

[WTN]

I still believe that trips within 1 zone only should be free massively discounted

Free Transit zone a la Perth?  I'd think South Bank-Roma St-Fortitude Valley.  It does partly close the loophole with the FUD for long distance users.

Hey! 

With the FUD increased to 100% (free), the loophole will apply to all users who travel more than 1 zone.

[Gazza]

I still believe that trips within 1 zone only should be free massively discounted

Sometimes I wonder if 1 and 2 Zone trips should be equal to get rid of that issue of short trips just over a zone boundary.
I think those sorts of changes are the sort that actually help in getting people to pick PT.

[somebody]

Hardly worth the saving unless you are talking about 1 stop.  I can remember using a different stop in Sydney so that my Brown Travel Ten was good for the trip but that's a whole different level of trade off.

[BrizCommuter]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/10/rfid-cards-compete-for-supremacy.html
go card vs Visa PayWave vs MasterCard PayPass.

[somebody]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/10/rfid-cards-compete-for-supremacy.html
go card vs Visa PayWave vs MasterCard PayPass.

I already have two alternate "wallets".  Although I'm not sure why this will rise.  Everything in my wallet I have to remove from it to use.

[BrizCommuter]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/10/rfid-cards-compete-for-supremacy.html
go card vs Visa PayWave vs MasterCard PayPass.

I already have two alternate "wallets".  Although I'm not sure why this will rise.  Everything in my wallet I have to remove from it to use.

Give it a few years and there probably be more RFID cards - driving licence, medicare, health insurance, library cards, etc. Or maybe Big Brother will just allow us all one card for everything?

[somebody]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/10/rfid-cards-compete-for-supremacy.html
go card vs Visa PayWave vs MasterCard PayPass.

I already have two alternate "wallets".  Although I'm not sure why this will rise.  Everything in my wallet I have to remove from it to use.

Give it a few years and there probably be more RFID cards - driving licence, medicare, health insurance, library cards, etc. Or maybe Big Brother will just allow us all one card for everything?

All of your examples require being removed from the wallet to use.  As do RFID credit cards.