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Author Topic: 'The Magnificent 7'  (Read 3520 times)

Online ozbob

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'The Magnificent 7'
« on: July 19, 2010, 12:32:53 PM »
--> http://magnificent7.seqmayors.qld.gov.au/

Quote
The Magnificent 7

Successive governments have failed to provide adequate investment in transport infrastructure needed to preserve the wonderful lifestyle that SEQ residents enjoy. SEQ has a huge backlog of infrastructure work that needs to be done; SEQ Mayors say transport infrastructure should be a key priority for all candidates competing in the upcoming Federal Election.
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
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Offline Golliwog

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Re: 'The Magnificent 7'
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2010, 04:55:38 PM »
So GC rail to Coolangatta is the only important rail infrastructure that needs to be built?
There is no silver bullet… but there is silver buckshot.
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colinw

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Re: 'The Magnificent 7'
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2010, 05:30:51 PM »
And the BT article fails to mention rail at all: link.  :pr

Edit: above statement *was* true, but article has now been updated and is much improved.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2010, 05:48:39 PM by colinw »

Offline Golliwog

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Re: 'The Magnificent 7'
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2010, 05:33:07 PM »
Wow, the BT article is horrible!
There is no silver bullet… but there is silver buckshot.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

colinw

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Re: 'The Magnificent 7'
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2010, 05:47:39 PM »
Well, it was.  They just updated it and its much better now, including a poll.  :-t

colinw

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Re: 'The Magnificent 7'
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2010, 09:10:44 AM »
Article in today's Gold Coast Bulletin - click here.

Quote
Mayors campaign for Coast rail extension

Daniel Meers   |  July 19th, 2010


MEMBERS of the southeast Queensland council of mayors have joined forces to endorse a campaign asking for federal funding to extend the city's railway network right down to the Gold Coast Airport.

The mayors, from the Gold Coast to the Sunshine Coast and west to Toowoomba, identified the rail project as one of seven key projects crucial to the state in the unprecedented move.

Gold Coast Mayor Ron Clarke said the State Government had planned to continue the railway down, but the process needed to be sped up.

''Our current and future residents deserve a much better public transport system and the commonwealth has a major role to play in delivering it,'' he said.

''If the commonwealth does not take a leadership role in delivering this national priority infrastructure project ... it will simply be put off to the never, never.''

A petition will also be launched.

Offline Arnz

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Re: 'The Magnificent 7'
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2010, 11:32:02 AM »
Being a Coastie, I personally think the Sunshine Coast Airport upgrade should be replaced with the Beerburrum-Nambour duplication and station upgrades/replacement of stations north of Landsborough. 

IMO, continuation of the duplication north of Beerburrum is probably a lot more important, not only for passengers, but for increased reliability of the freight traffic as well (since freight trains HAVE to wait for any passenger service at the nearest station/crossing loop)
Rgds,
Arnz

Unless stated otherwise, Opinions stated in my posts are those of my own view only.

somebody

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Re: 'The Magnificent 7'
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2010, 03:30:21 PM »
I don't understand why they need to spend a dime on the airport.  It is adequate for 737s and A320s and there is no way that bigger planes are coming in.  "Re-align" why?  Does the current alignment have the flight path over the minister's house?  Does it conflict with BNE?

colinw

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Re: 'The Magnificent 7'
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2010, 03:32:37 PM »
If there is a pressing need for airport anything in SEQ, it is getting rail to Coolangatta, and also providing Coolangatta airport with aerobridges.

On the Sunshine Coast there are far more pressing needs, and I don't understand why the Council of Mayors put that particular project up.

Offline Jonno

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Re: 'The Magnificent 7'
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2010, 04:43:27 PM »
The Mayors of SEQ still seem to be operating under the false illusion that they can build their way out of congestion (4 of the 7 project will only increase car usage and all the associated impacts).  The continuation of the Eastern Busway to Capalaba (and beyond) is a no brainer. Surely a Western Brisbane Busway/Priority, the Moreton Bay line, CRR, Sunshine Coast line, etc. etc. are all higher priority than the suggested road projects.  When are our political 'leaders' (very loose use of the term) going to take off their 'road' coloured goggles and realise the mess they have created in SEQ.  Not by ‘not building enough infrastructure’ but by building the WRONG infrastructure. 

somebody

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Re: 'The Magnificent 7'
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2010, 05:00:04 PM »
If there is a pressing need for airport anything in SEQ, it is getting rail to Coolangatta, and also providing Coolangatta airport with aerobridges.
I don't get the whole notion of providing a rail link to the Gold Coast Airport.  I cannot see why the Gold Coast residents would want to use it, and ditto for the Brisbanites who have a bigger airport closer.  Perhaps a few people at Beenleigh/Ormeau may like it but I think the market is small.

Offline #Metro

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Re: 'The Magnificent 7'
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2010, 05:21:25 PM »
Quote
I don't get the whole notion of providing a rail link to the Gold Coast Airport.  I cannot see why the Gold Coast residents would want to use it, and ditto for the Brisbanites who have a bigger airport closer.

Rail to Gold Coast Airport is a good idea. But priority wise CRR should come first.
By connecting the train to the Airport, pressure can be put on Brisbane Airport and their sky-high fees, surcharges, charges and tolls.
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Offline #Metro

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Re: 'The Magnificent 7'
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2010, 05:24:33 PM »
Quote
Surely a Western Brisbane Busway/Priority, the Moreton Bay line, CRR, Sunshine Coast line, etc. etc. are all higher priority than the suggested road projects.  When are our political 'leaders' (very loose use of the term) going to take off their 'road' coloured goggles and realise the mess they have created in SEQ.  Not by ‘not building enough infrastructure’ but by building the WRONG infrastructure.

Quote
Not by ‘not building enough infrastructure’ but by building the WRONG infrastructure.
Sometimes a cheaper planning fix will do the job. But there is no money for good planning, there is only money for things that use concrete.

I'm not sure about a Western Busway now. We can re-arrange the buses, boost existing ones and pay money to put more trains on, upgrade tracks and stations. But because this is a 'software fix' rather than a 'hardware fix' and there is money for 'hardware' but not 'software', I would not be surprised if that money went into hardware fixes only such as:

a) Bus priority/busway (an expensive 'hardware fix', probably not needed as there is a software fix)
b) Northern Link tunnel on claims that this will improve the speed of buses (which I also doubt)
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colinw

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Re: 'The Magnificent 7'
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2010, 05:24:48 PM »
I don't think the point is getting to the airport as such.

For "airport" read "transport hub".

Gold Coast airport marks the place where the heavy rail corridor, South East Queensland freeway system, interstate highway, main coastal road, Gold coast public transport spine (& future light rail), and air transport all come together in the one location.

Beyond the airport, there is no clear need for the heavy rail to continue (who needs a line to Murwillumbah?) and any coastal extension down to Kingscliff, etc. is fantasy land.  Nor is there a particularly good corridor available into downtown Coolangatta, the old rail right of way being long gone in many places.

A southern extension of the light rail from the airport to downtown Coolangatta and (with interstate co-operation) Tweeds Heads seems credible, and in fact the airport would not be a good place to terminate that system as it would avoid serving the main part of Coolangatta.

But the heavy rail needs a suitable terminus on the southern coast, and the place where that can occur with good links to the rest of the area is at the airport.  There the heavy rail will terminate for a very long time - until the happy day when we get over our interstate rivalries enough to develop a true intercity railway as far south as Ballina (or the unhappy day when we repeat the grievous errors of 1960 & 1964).
« Last Edit: July 20, 2010, 05:27:09 PM by colinw »

Offline #Metro

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Re: 'The Magnificent 7'
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2010, 05:31:18 PM »
Quote
Beyond the airport, there is no clear need for the heavy rail to continue (who needs a line to Murwillumbah?) and any coastal extension down to Kingscliff, etc. is fantasy land.  Nor is there a particularly good corridor available into downtown Coolangatta, the old rail right of way being long gone in many places.

A southern extension of the light rail from the airport to downtown Coolangatta and (with interstate co-operation) Tweeds Heads seems credible, and in fact the airport would not be a good place to terminate that system as it would avoid serving the main part of Coolangatta

I would like to see Heavy Rail or Light Rail (I don't really care which, they can interchange at the Airport whichever one gets built)
with a station at Tweed Heads, over the bridge to Tweed Heads South, to Kingscliff and the massive high-density Casurina/Peppers coastal development down there. Maybe light rail will be better and cheaper for this job.

More passengers means lower cost per passenger km!
« Last Edit: July 20, 2010, 05:32:59 PM by tramtrain »
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Offline #Metro

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Re: 'The Magnificent 7'
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2010, 05:53:51 PM »
How much is the Eastern Busway costing again (the whole thing).
Strange idea

(WARNING: People who do not like my ideas, stop reading now):

But just wondering if the Bulimba-Newstead rail tunnel went ahead (save 15 minutes commute time) then buses in this region
could be re-organised to feed rail.

See, from the estimates given in another thread for the Epping-Chatswood line:

Quote
Just to show the difference in cost depending on construction techniques, Epping-Chatswood has been estimated at approx $177m/km.
http://melbpt.wordpress.com/2008/05/04/issues-with-epping-chatswood-in-my-recent-rail-construction-costs-post/

Newstead-Bulimba-Cleveland rail tunnel: 5.5km tunnel x $177 million/km = $975 million, round up to 1 billion. (Rail)
18 km Eastern Busway (to Chandler) say x 100 million/km (optimistic!) = 1.8 billion (Estimate only)

Busway would (estimated) be about 2x more expensive.
And the busway alignment is less convenient (as it must go around the bend, like the Cleveland line does now, as well).

Ok, so they don't go to the same area, but there would be money left over to do up the Cleveland line and
maybe run feeders to from the done up rail line. And there might even be just money left over to build a 4km rail spur (elevated) to Carindale Shopping Centre Interchange, roughly along Creek Rd, which would run the normal route (solving the split Cleveland line and frequencies at South Bank problem).

 ???


« Last Edit: July 20, 2010, 06:09:01 PM by tramtrain »
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somebody

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Re: 'The Magnificent 7'
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2010, 06:24:09 PM »
I would suggest that crossing the Brisbane River is more of a problem than crossing the Lane Cove River though.  Perhaps add $300m for that?

Also, the Eastern Busway is really serving a different market to the Cleveland Line.

Still, I think you are making a good point.

Offline #Metro

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Re: 'The Magnificent 7'
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2010, 07:57:05 PM »
(WARNING: People who do not like my ideas, stop reading now):

The cost of tunnel should be similar whether it is under the ground or under a river, the difference might be gradient and length depending on how deep one needs to go.

Even if the busway and the rail option have identical costs (and they probably would not), rail is the one with the higher capacity, comfort and speed (up to 130km/h) and more direct route (with tunnel) so rail should be chosen. And because it uses mostly track that already exists and a tunnel, it would require far less housing demolition and property acquisition than busway.

A spur line would take the BUZ 200 market, lots of the 2XX routes around this area. There are already railway stations at Buranda, Cooparoo etc.

A feeder bus could be put on to most stations, station-suburb, another bus might be needed to cover for Old Cleveland Rd and create a mesh network.

Thanks for the discussion somebody
:-t
« Last Edit: July 20, 2010, 08:07:02 PM by tramtrain »
Negative people... have a problem for every solution.
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