Opposition Statement: Where are our rail and bus services? ...

[ozbob]

http://www.fionasimpson.com.au/Pages/Article.aspx?ID=733

Where are our rail and bus services? Simpson demands answers on Govt broken promise

Friday, 2 July 2010

SUNSHINE Coast rail and bus users are paying more but they're not getting the promised services.

Shadow Transport Minister and Member for Maroochydore Fiona Simpson said the Labor Government tried to justify the 40% fare hikes in January this year by promising 300,000 new seats in SEQ by July 1 but the Sunshine Coast – a region of 350,000 – was still waiting to see its fair share.

"Minister Rachel Nolan is quick flog off QR as part of the asset sales, but she's been asleep at the wheel on delivering fair, equitable and affordable services. She is treating commuters like cattle. On the North Coast rail line to Nambour, the overcrowding is the worst in the CityTrain network. They use antiquated rolling stock without toilets and continue to use 3 car sets instead of the six car sets.

"It's time the Minister outlined just where the Sunshine Coast's new seats are – as they're already paying for them but they're yet to materialise. That's a disgrace."

Shadow Minister for Transport Fiona Simpson said the Minister's announcement that new peak services will be rolled out on the Caboolture line is all hype with no detail.

"The Minister says these services won't be implemented until the first half of 2011, after months of community consultation and timetable reviews."

"That's more than 12 months after commuters have been paying 40% more for their fares since Labor Government's price hike in January this year, " Ms Simpson said.

"There's no detail on when they're going to expand the services to Nambour".

"It is obvious what extra services are needed.  The current timetable for the North Coast line is a disgrace with commuters into Brisbane having very few options.   Those who are not able to make the 7.27pm service are forced to wait two hours for the next service at 9.28pm."

"About 80% of morning peak hour services into Brisbane are overcrowded with many commuters forced to stand for about 20 minutes," Ms Simpson said.

"A simple solution to increase capacity would be to upgrade all three car train services to six car services."

"And we need to make sure all trains have toilets on board," said Ms Simpson.  "Currently passengers are denied basic facilities like toilets on many long haul rail services."

"Even where toilet facilities are provided at stations, they are kept locked at the many unattended stations on the North Coast line."

"If the Government is spending $200 million to makeover train stations, they must at least give passengers access to toilets.

"It is clear that the Government is fudging the details on which lines are getting extra services and Coast residents are still being ripped off."

[#Metro]

"Let them have GoCard."

[stephenk]

It's not just the North Coast Line where commuters are feeling ripped off by the price hike. Ferny Grove and Shorncliffe have also had no extra seats or services for over 2 years.

[p858snake]

It's not just the North Coast Line where commuters are feeling ripped off by the price hike. Ferny Grove and Shorncliffe have also had no extra seats or services for over 2 years.

I didn't it was physically possible for FG to have any more till the duplication?

[somebody]

It's not just the North Coast Line where commuters are feeling ripped off by the price hike. Ferny Grove and Shorncliffe have also had no extra seats or services for over 2 years.

I didn't it was physically possible for FG to have any more till the duplication?

Couldn't they have had more Mitchelton terminators?

[Golliwog]

Mitchelton terminators wouldn't really solve anything. In fact it would probalby make things worse as you would be tieing up one of two platforms for 8 minutes while the train reverses. Also, I'm not sure of the exact breakdown but most (definately not all though, just ask stephenk) ride all the way in from FG, so Mitchie terminators wouldn't do much for them.

[somebody]

I'm not sure of the exact breakdown

It's about 1/4. (2163 vs 8182).  Although you need to include Keperra, Grovely & Oxford Park.  That makes it 3444 vs 8182.

Seems the real problem is an "It's too hard" culture.

Source: 2009 Passenger Load Survey.

[Golliwog]

Ok, so its almost half that come from the last 4 stations. I still don't see Mitchie terminators as useful. At least half the trains once they reach FG don't return in service, so trying to find a spare 8minutes to block one of the platforms is probably harder than it looks, if not near impossible.

[somebody]

Ok, so its almost half that come from the last 4 stations. I still don't see Mitchie terminators as useful. At least half the trains once they reach FG don't return in service, so trying to find a spare 8minutes to block one of the platforms is probably harder than it looks, if not near impossible.

Why not?  You could have had 4tph all to Mitchelton & 4tph to FG, express BH-M, even without the M-K duplication.  You could also have all the FG trains returning in service.

May need a crew swap at M, but doable IMO.

[#Metro]

Seems the real problem is an "It's too hard" culture.

100% agree

[Golliwog]

RE: Somebody.

I just did up a quick excel sheet of the running times given on the most recent timetable and running the 8tph as you suggested using a clockface timetable means that every 15 minutes there would be 3 trains at Mitchie, the one turning around, one inbound and one outbound. However even so this has conflicts on the single track between Keperra and FG as its 5 minutes travel each way plus 8 minutes turning around, for a total of 18 minutes. That could be worked around by shifting the trains goign to FG to a non-clockface timetable (as they are currently) which should also remove the 3 trains at Mitchie issue, however it would leave a very very small margin for error as the conflicts would be reinstated if one train was a minute or 2 late/early.

A clockface timetable could MAYBE be done if a crew swap was done at Mitchie, however to my knowledge QR is opposed to this as if one service is cancelled or delayed due for whatever reason you then have a crew stuck at Mitchie who can't do their scheduled runs.

This also ignores the fact that the FG line doesn't need express services, the main reason why they exist is because of the single track at Keperra which limits how many trains can run all the way to Ferny.

[somebody]

A clockface timetable could MAYBE be done if a crew swap was done at Mitchie, however to my knowledge QR is opposed to this

Which takes us back to the "It's too hard" culture.

[Golliwog]

IIRC somewhere on here (not this thread though) this was again disucssed and it was mentioned that the London tube used to swap crews like that but have since stopped doing it for exactly that reason. IMO, crews shouldn't be changed at locations where if a service is cancelled or whatever else there isn't a depot next to the station from which the crew can grab a spare train so if needed the service can still run even if it is a few minutes late. Better a slightly late service than none at all.

[longboi]

A clockface timetable could MAYBE be done if a crew swap was done at Mitchie, however to my knowledge QR is opposed to this

Which takes us back to the "It's too hard" culture.

Pushing for half-baked improvements does nothing to improve the overall network.

Its not that its too hard, but doing things like squeezing services in every little gap and the like leaves no room for non-revenue movements and little leeway if things go wrong.

[#Metro]

Its not that its too hard, but doing things like squeezing services in every little gap and the like leaves no room for non-revenue movements and little leeway if things go wrong.

It is a truly shocking situation when the QR rail network seems to be completely incapacitated and disabled in its ability to even support marginal increases in frequency or service. This situation must end. Major rail upgrades are needed urgently.

[Stinktown]

Each day i sit at Auchenflower station waiting for my Shorncliffe train (38 mins gap). What I don't understand is a fairly packed ipswich outbound train (4:12) and a very lightly loaded Redbank train (4:16)
Irony, I suppose.
Plus the fact I could catch the almost completely empty Doomben's from the CBD, or the Cab/Nambour/Airport to get to at least Eagle Junction or even Northgate. Why can't they fill the 38 minute gap with a Shorncliffe that departs from Northgate or Eagle Junction?

[#Metro]

Each day i sit at Auchenflower station waiting for my Shorncliffe train (38 mins gap). What I don't understand is a fairly packed ipswich outbound train (4:12) and a very lightly loaded Redbank train (4:16)

Its probably because 4 minutes is not enough time for the platform to fill up again.
I suppose everyone wants to catch the first train, nobody wants to wait for the next one.

Can't help you with the Shorncliffe train.
There is probably some obscure capacity limiting reason why the gap isn't filled.

[somebody]

Each day i sit at Auchenflower station waiting for my Shorncliffe train (38 mins gap). What I don't understand is a fairly packed ipswich outbound train (4:12) and a very lightly loaded Redbank train (4:16)

One has to question why the Ipswich train isn't express.  They just always did it that way.

A clockface timetable could MAYBE be done if a crew swap was done at Mitchie, however to my knowledge QR is opposed to this

Which takes us back to the "It's too hard" culture.

Pushing for half-baked improvements does nothing to improve the overall network.

Its not that its too hard, but doing things like squeezing services in every little gap and the like leaves no room for non-revenue movements and little leeway if things go wrong.

Sigh.  Non-revenue movements?  Unless you are referring to the Mitchelton trains returning counter peak, what are these doing in peak hour?

IIRC somewhere on here (not this thread though) this was again disucssed and it was mentioned that the London tube used to swap crews like that but have since stopped doing it for exactly that reason. IMO, crews shouldn't be changed at locations where if a service is cancelled or whatever else there isn't a depot next to the station from which the crew can grab a spare train so if needed the service can still run even if it is a few minutes late. Better a slightly late service than none at all.

I remember that too.  It was only referring to a single location IIRC.  To be honest, I cannot see the big deal if a train is cancelled here.  The crew just operate the next one.  Probably, the correct crew would swap in at Bowen Hills.

[longboi]

Sigh.  Non-revenue movements?  Unless you are referring to the Mitchelton trains returning counter peak, what are these doing in peak hour?

Well you have freight, special services (i.e. Charter), tuition trains, movements to/from Mayne. Just to illustrate how very little room there is on the current network in peak; at present any extra services (i.e. Tuition trains) can take anywhere between 30 mins - 1hr just to travel from Normanby-Bowen Hills.

All I'm saying is that just because there is a gap in a revenue timetable doesn't necessarily mean it can simply be fixed by slapping on another service. I feel there needs to be a complete line-by-line overhaul (i.e. new IPS-CAB timetable) of the timetables (i.e. new IPS-CAB timetable) to include increased frequencies where possible, as well as working with TL to maximise bus/rail connection opportunities. 

[somebody]

Sigh.  Non-revenue movements?  Unless you are referring to the Mitchelton trains returning counter peak, what are these doing in peak hour?

Well you have freight, special services (i.e. Charter), tuition trains, movements to/from Mayne. Just to illustrate how very little room there is on the current network in peak; at present any extra services (i.e. Tuition trains) can take anywhere between 30 mins - 1hr just to travel from Normanby-Bowen Hills.

All I'm saying is that just because there is a gap in a revenue timetable doesn't necessarily mean it can simply be fixed by slapping on another service. I feel there needs to be a complete line-by-line overhaul (i.e. new IPS-CAB timetable) of the timetables (i.e. new IPS-CAB timetable) to include increased frequencies where possible, as well as working with TL to maximise bus/rail connection opportunities. 

But you didn't answer the question there.  I asked, why should those movements be occurring in peak time?

[#Metro]

How critical is the state of the QR Network? Because it sounds like it really is almost incapacitated.

[longboi]

Sigh.  Non-revenue movements?  Unless you are referring to the Mitchelton trains returning counter peak, what are these doing in peak hour?

Well you have freight, special services (i.e. Charter), tuition trains, movements to/from Mayne. Just to illustrate how very little room there is on the current network in peak; at present any extra services (i.e. Tuition trains) can take anywhere between 30 mins - 1hr just to travel from Normanby-Bowen Hills.

All I'm saying is that just because there is a gap in a revenue timetable doesn't necessarily mean it can simply be fixed by slapping on another service. I feel there needs to be a complete line-by-line overhaul (i.e. new IPS-CAB timetable) of the timetables (i.e. new IPS-CAB timetable) to include increased frequencies where possible, as well as working with TL to maximise bus/rail connection opportunities. 

But you didn't answer the question there.  I asked, why should those movements be occurring in peak time?

Obviously freight doesn't (Which is an impediment to a reliable rail freight network...but thats another issue entirely) but there are instances where tuition trains need to travel in peak to meet their schedules. Obviously its not ideal and as such doesn't happen every day, however it shows that there isn't as much free capacity as it seems.

[somebody]

Just mocked up a timetable with 4tph to FG, exp BH-M + 4tph all to Mitchelton + 4tph counter peak.  It definitely doesn't work without a crew swap at M without the M-K duplication:
B :00 :03 :15 :18 :30 :33 :45 :48
    E    A    E   A   E    A    E   A
M :12 :19 :27 :34 :42 :49 :57 :04
K :18       :33       :48      :03
F :21       :36       :51      :06

F :29       :44       :59      :14
K :33       :48       :03      :18
M :38 :21 :53 :36 :08 :51 :23 :06
B :53 NR  :08 NR  :23 NR  :38 NR

Key:
B = Bowen Hills
M = Mitchelton
K = Keperra
F = Ferny Grove
NR = Non Revenue
A = All Stops
E = Express

The reliability of the above timetable would be low unless they can squeeze the 8 minute changeover rule.  Run 3 car sets in peak anyone?

[somebody]

Just mocked up a timetable with 4tph to FG, exp BH-M + 4tph all to Mitchelton + 4tph counter peak, with the M-K duplication and no crew swap:
B :00 :03 :15 :18 :30 :33 :45 :48
    E    A    E   A   E    A    E   A
M :12 :19 :27 :34 :42 :49 :57 :04
K :18       :33       :48      :03
F :21       :36       :51      :06

F :23       :38       :53      :08
K :27       :42       :57      :12
M :32 :27 :47 :42 :02 :57 :17 :12
B :47  NR  :02 NR  :17 NR  :32 NR

Key:
B = Bowen Hills
M = Mitchelton
K = Keperra
F = Ferny Grove
NR = Non Revenue
A = All Stops
E = Express

EDIT: Assumption is that the Mitchelton terminators are arriving on the inbound platform.

[somebody]

I feel that the possibility of 8tph on the Ferny Grove line now that the M-K duplication has been done, combined with the lack of timetable adjustments to take advantage of the Caboolture-Beerburrum upgrades is a suitable subject for a media release.

Pushing for half-baked improvements does nothing to improve the overall network.

I cannot agree that there isn't a need to press them to provide the best service that they can with the current infrastructure.