Richlands to Springfield Central - Stage 2

[Gazza]

A train every six minutes with 600 seats from where? Central?

Read the timetable.

At the moment its a train every 6 minutes from Richlands in the height of AM peak (And )to Richlands in the PM peak. Richlands trains will be extended back to Springfield Central once it is finished.
This tapers to one ever 12 minutes either side, but the timetable was designed so that extra services get slotted into the 12 minute gaps as demand grows so it becomes every 6 minutes throughout, which has to be catered for.

If there are insufficient car parks and no feeder buses from Springfield Central then who will ride the trains? 

Well nobody obviously if you are going to frame it like that.

But your argument sucks because you are saying both
-Insufficienct Car parks
-No feeders

In other words, a deliberatley nightmarish situation.

Im advocating for proper feeder buses, so why are you saying none as a way to support your argument?

What next? are you going to try and say:
If there are insufficient car parks and no electricity to power the trains then who will ride the trains?
If there are insufficient car parks and no stairs or pathways to get onto the station platforms then who will ride the trains?
If there are insufficient car parks and no train drivers then who will ride the trains?
Because that is what your point basically amounted to. LOL.

Feeder buses have to be subsidised anyway, and they can't go everywhere.

Subsidised yes, but they take cars off the road in Springfield itself too, and double as local services (I imagine that buses would go to the station and say have another stop at Orion)
And it is entirley possible to design a bus network running along main roads like Springfield Lakes Boulevard, Grande Ave etc. Basically all residences are within walking distance of one of these main roads, so people just walk a short distance from their front door and get on a bus.

[huddo45]

A train every six minutes with 600 seats from where? Central?

Read the timetable.

At the moment its a train every 6 minutes from Richlands in the height of AM peak (And )to Richlands in the PM peak. Richlands trains will be extended back to Springfield Central once it is finished.
This tapers to one ever 12 minutes either side, but the timetable was designed so that extra services get slotted into the 12 minute gaps as demand grows so it becomes every 6 minutes throughout, which has to be catered for.

If there are insufficient car parks and no feeder buses from Springfield Central then who will ride the trains? 

Well nobody obviously if you are going to frame it like that.

But your argument sucks because you are saying both
-Insufficienct Car parks
-No feeders

In other words, a deliberatley nightmarish situation.

Im advocating for proper feeder buses, so why are you saying none as a way to support your argument?

What next? are you going to try and say:
If there are insufficient car parks and no electricity to power the trains then who will ride the trains?
If there are insufficient car parks and no stairs or pathways to get onto the station platforms then who will ride the trains?
If there are insufficient car parks and no train drivers then who will ride the trains?
Because that is what your point basically amounted to. LOL.

Feeder buses have to be subsidised anyway, and they can't go everywhere.

Subsidised yes, but they take cars off the road in Springfield itself too, and double as local services (I imagine that buses would go to the station and say have another stop at Orion)
And it is entirley possible to design a bus network running along main roads like Springfield Lakes Boulevard, Grande Ave etc. Basically all residences are within walking distance of one of these main roads, so people just walk a short distance from their front door and get on a bus.

Ok, I read the timetable. Trains in both am/pm are every 12 minutes except for one extra at 7.42 am. 

This is all very well for Springfield Lakes and Springfield but I'm really looking further out to Brookwater, Augustine Heights etc.  I tried to find out what's considered walking distance,in the USA they say up to 1/2 mile to get to transit. There are qute a number of people who can't walk very far or up hills for health reasons that won't be able to walk to the bus.  The local councillor who wants more parking reckons people will drive from Redbank Plains even. They'll probably find the few parking spots taken up by lazy so-and-so's who should have caught the bus 

[mufreight]

Huddo45, seems that you have more idea of public transport needs and the failings of the lack of parking at Springfield than most, pretty close to spot on with your post.   

[techblitz]

One of the stationhands @ richlands says there is anywhere up to 50 illegal parkers of any given weekday morning.not sure if he overexaggerated or not but judging by the constantly full car park (on both levels) i would find it very easy to believe.
The problem time seems to be from 7:00-8:00am when peak capacity hits

[mufreight]

One of the stationhands @ richlands says there is anywhere up to 50 illegal parkers of any given weekday morning.not sure if he overexaggerated or not but judging by the constantly full car park (on both levels) i would find it very easy to believe.
The problem time seems to be from 7:00-8:00am when peak capacity hits

only 50 would be understating the figure quite considerably, many are parking in the Lions football club and on the vacant land opposite the station along Garden Road and Pine Road.

[ozbob]

Progress with the bridge over the Logan Motorway







Photographs mufreight 28th July 2012

[somebody]

Suffice to say, that a number of off peak trains have more people on them than the 60-odd people who might be accommodated on a bus and that the empirical evidence suggests more frequency = better cost recovery.  West Coast Express is pretty small beer, and utilising a freight railway to provide a couple of peak runs.  That situation is not at all comparable to the Ferny Grove Line.

Perhaps we should just agree to disagree.  Neither of us has access to the books to provide proof.

[ozbob]

They certainly do Simon.  Would not be possible to economically replace off peak services with buses, would need huge fleets and would cost a lot more.  The externalities of congestion, road trauma and environmental impacts also need to be considered. 

TransLink have indicated that the network will move to one where rail and frequent bus is operated as a core frequent network (trunk), with better feeder arrangements.  This is positive, although will take time.

[ozbob]

From the Satellite 22nd August 2012 page 16

Springfield rail stays on track

[mufreight]

Much has been said by members posting comments in relation to both the provision of a station at EllenGrove on the Springfield line and on the provision of car parking facilities for park and ride.
Perhaps a few facts and figures might change some of the views that have been expressed.
At the present time it is proposed that there will be in total 950 car spaces provided for the three stations that are to be provided on the Springfield line, Richlands 650, Springfield 200 and Springfield Central 100.
By comparison on the Mandurah line Transperth has increased the number of car parking spaces at Cockburn Central from a total of 600 to 1500 to cope with demand, this is a few lines since the line was opened and a new infill station is now being constructed between Cockburn Central and Kwinana only some 20 minutes from the CBD at Aubin Grove.
This new station will have an additional 2000 car spaces as well as feeder bus services to relieve the strain on the facilities at both Cockburn Central and Kwinana.  The original proposal was for the provision of only 900 car spaces but it was decided that if there was to be any serious intention to relieve the traffic on the Kwinana Freeway that would be less than sufficient.
Compare this with the total of 950 car spaces for the entire Springfield line, these three stations alone have almost 4000 car spaces between them.
The residential catchment within 2km of these three stations on the Murandah line is presently 3/5 of the existing residential population within 2km of the three stations on the Springfield line without taking into consideration the present population of Forrest Lake, EllenGrove and Carole Park who currently either park at Richlands, Darra, Wacol or drive via the Centenary Highway into the CBD.
Even with the construction of the infill station at EllenGrove with a 300 space car park although there is space across Considine Street from the proposed station site where almost unlimited further car parking could be provided, say in total 1000 further car spaces, this would for the four stations which would then exist on the Springfield line in total still not equal one station on the Murandah line.
This does not consider the increasing numbers of residents from the growing daily Ripley/Springfield residential developments who have no choice but to do the daily commute via the Centenary Highway parking lot to the CBD.
In total the number of residents in the gathering area for the Springfield line is in total almost four times that of those resident comparable section of the Mandurah line but provides less than a quarter of the park and ride spaces.
Then make further comparison with the uptake of car parking at the Jindalee park and Ride. 


Now who says that the construction of either more car parking spaces and or the station at EllenGrove are not justified while Translink and TMR are wasting money on facilities such as the Park and Rides at Jindalle and Klump Road which are effectively unused.

[somebody]

WA also require a contribution to pay for the parking from the commuters.

[mufreight]

WA also require a contribution to pay for the parking from the commuters.

Only for secured parking?

[somebody]

No, they charge $2 for "Lock 'n' Ride" and "Pay 'n' Display" parking: http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/UsingTransperth/CarParking.aspx

[mufreight]

No, they charge $2 for "Lock 'n' Ride" and "Pay 'n' Display" parking: http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/UsingTransperth/CarParking.aspx

That is secured parking which is limited, for instance at Cockburn Central there are only 205 secured (lock and ride) spaces and all the rest of the 1500 spaces there are free.

[Gazza]

Is it really a nice thing to have a 1500 bay island of asphalt though?

[Fares_Fair]

Is it really a nice thing to have a 1500 bay island of asphalt though?

Saves mowing ...   

[mufreight]

Is it really a nice thing to have a 1500 bay island of asphalt though?

Well it is decidedly better than an additional 1500 cars on the freeway at peak hour.

[Gazza]

But not as good as 1500 people arriving by feeder bus routes, or cycling.

[SurfRail]

mu - I'm not really convinced the comparison obtains for 2 reasons:

1. Mandurah has virtually no walk-up catchment.  The patronage for Springfield Lakes is going to be almost entirely walk-up with some parking and kiss-n-ride and very limited bus feeders.  In particular, people are still somehow getting on board Richlands trains already when the parking available has filled up.

2. Mandurah has a much bigger transport task to fill right now than the Springfield line ever will.  I can't reasonably foresee 20 million passenger trips being made in any one year.

I don't doubt stations will be parked out, but frankly you can never build "enough" parking.  Doing something sensible with the buses instead of farting around for 18 months and then only providing a peak hour service will go some way to alleviating the issues too.

[mufreight]

Stations such as Cockburn Central do have walk up commuters as well as in the case of Cockburn Central seven bus routes that are effectively feeders.
The new station at Aubin Grove will initially have three feeder bus routes and be served by two other presently existing services yet the new station is being constructed with 2000 parking spaces and this station is within about three kilometres of two other stations which have a combined parking capacity in excess of 2500 spaces.
The parallels are both are in conjunction with an arterial road, Kwinana Freeway and the Centenary Highway, both systems are relative new, less than five years since services commenced.
The existing resident populations are four times greater in the Springfield situation than the Mandurah situation with continuing development in both cases along the existing or in the case of Springfield under construction alignment but in the case of the Springfield line there is extensive development along the Centenary Highway through the Ripley Valley to Yamanto.
The suggestion that Springfield will be walk up might be valid but that premise restricts the catchment, particularly in the absence of a co-ordinated feeder bus service operating to the same frequency as the rail service and thew distance between the rail station and shopping facilities.
A point that has been overlooked with the Springfield/Richlands line parking is that unlike Mandurah no provision is made to cater for those who drive to the rail from beyond the terminus park and use the train to access the CBD.
Late last year a survey was carried out of people parking at Richlands before 8.00am at which time the car parking was at capacity.  Some 76 people had driven from points beyond Willowbank and Peak Crossing, these users would if parking was avaliable use Springfield Central and with only 100 car spaces at that location three quarters fill it.
The object of the provision of the rail service for the development is to reduce the numbers of motor vehicle movements on the Centenary Highway to and from the Centenary Highway which in the peaks is already a parking lot, add another 300000 people within the next 15 years, what then.  So much for forward planning.

[petey3801]

Mast bases were being installed between Richlands and the Logan Mwy when I was on the way home from work this morning. It's all coming along!

[petey3801]

Masts are currently being erected between Richlands and the Logan Motorway.. It's looking more like a railway along that stretch now! Also a few signals being put into position along the same section.

[Gazza]

I really need to go for a drive out that way, i didn't have my camera a couple of weeks back, but at Springfield Central the station support arches are in place.

[petey3801]

I really need to go for a drive out that way, i didn't have my camera a couple of weeks back, but at Springfield Central the station support arches are in place.

Yep, all support arches and the bridge/viaduct from the embankment to Springfield Central station are in place. The bridge over the Logan/Centenary interchange is around 3/4 or so complete as well.

[ozbob]

Nice pic in the latest Transit Australia of the bridge at Logan/Centenary Highways ...  looks most impressive!

[techblitz]

took the  534 safari tour last saturday and managed too get a look at some of development around ellen grove station.Coming along nicely!

[somebody]

Nice pic in the latest Transit Australia of the bridge at Logan/Centenary Highways ...  looks most impressive!

How worthwhile is Transit Australia?  I've got one copy but it doesn't contain much other than a newsfile.

[ozbob]

Nice pic in the latest Transit Australia of the bridge at Logan/Centenary Highways ...  looks most impressive!

How worthwhile is Transit Australia?  I've got one copy but it doesn't contain much other than a newsfile.

It has some nice photos ....   

[ozbob]

From the Queensland Times 10th October 2012 page 5

Minister to announce Centenary Highway expansion



This compounds the failure to not build Ellen Grove station greenfield.  They are very very foolish.  The road will need upgrading but the station would have only cost $20M or so and would relieve significantly the parking and road congestion issues.

Queenslander!

Article now online --> here!

[ozbob]

Letter to the editor Queensland Times

10 October 2012

Ellen Grove railway station

Dear Editor,

The article in today's QT ' Minister to announce Centenary Highway expansion, Oct 10 '  highlights how stupid the decision not to build the railway station at Ellen Grove is.  There are plans to build a railway station at Ellen Grove in about 5 years.  Building the station today would cost around $20 million, easily funded from the savings identified by Minister Emerson.  A station at Ellen Grove would relieve a lot of the parking issues at Richlands railway station, and provide relief at Springfield and Springfield Central stations, stations with planned inadequate park and ride facilities.

To come back at build the railway station at Ellen Grove in 5 or so years will cost at least $50 million dollars, with the added complexity of building it on a working railway.

This failure at Ellen Grove highlights admirably the flawed planning processes that occur in Queensland.  It is not to late to build Ellen Grove railway station ' greenfield '.  Is the Government smart enough?

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[#Metro]

$475 milion blown up on crap.

For that same money, you could put 15 minute trains to Ipswich and Springfield, and probably do some capacity enhancement and upgrade all the buses to higher frequency and span.

Instead, half a billion will be spent on concrete - little improvement to mobility, low capacity (2000 vehicles/hour).

[ozbob]

LNP review delivers Centenary Highway boost

Wednesday, 10 October 2012 07:25

Capacity and safety on the Centenary Highway will be boosted following a review of the $475 million Richlands to Springfield project.

Transport and Main Roads Minister Scott Emerson said two new northbound lanes would be added to the project between Springfield Parkway to just south of Johnson Rd, Greenbank, in addition to the Richlands to Springfield train line.

"As part of our review of all spending, we were able to remove Labor's gold plating and deliver greater benefits to the community for the same money," Mr Emerson said.

"We are delivering two more lanes than the previous government committed to.

"There are more than 5000 motorists who travel along the Centenary Highway in the morning and afternoon peaks, and these commuters know how desperately the upgrade is needed to ease the mounting traffic congestion.

"The re-scope of this project will deliver safety benefits and aid the growth of south-east Queensland."

The upgrade works will be completed in 2014 and include:

    the existing single carriage becoming two southbound highway lanes from the Logan Motorway Interchange to Springfield Parkway
    a new on-ramp to be built from Logan Motorway westbound to the Centenary Highway southbound
    two new northbound lanes to be built from Springfield Parkway towards Johnson Road
    lengthening the Springfield Parkway on-ramp to the Centenary Highway
    building three new road bridges over the Logan Motorway Interchange, Johnson Road and Sandy Creek
    a new central median strip to separate southbound and northbound lanes

The proposed seven kilometres of pathway/bikepath and lowering the Springfield Link Bridge will no longer be delivered as part of this project.

As well as upgrading the Centenary Highway, the project includes a new 9.5-kilometre dual track passenger rail line between Richlands and Springfield with two new stations at Springfield (opposite Woodcrest College) and Springfield Central (opposite Orion Town Centre).

Full details of the changes will be available at up-coming community information session on November 1 and 3 at Orion Shopping Centre with static displays at Springfield Fair.

For more information phone 1800 067 684 (free call), email info@trackstar.com.au, or visit www.queenslandrail.com.au/projects.

[ozbob]

As I tweeted the Minister, when fuel is > $4 per litre the public will be wondering where the sustainable infrastructure is ...

scrapping the bicycle path is also very short-sighted ...  but myopia is fast becoming a hallmark of the Queensland Government ...

[SurfRail]

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

[somebody]

What are the savings they have found in the Springfield rail project?

[ozbob]

Not sure but a nice little motza  ... there was a bit saved ?40m from phase 1 too

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[Gazza]

What are the savings they have found in the Springfield rail project?

I think it was a case of the Govt being cautious with their cost estimate for the project, and Trackstar coming back and saying, "we can do it for this much less".

Basically, this happens in Qld and WA, but not NSW and Vic.

[petey3801]

Well, we all know where the priorities lie with this government! Scrapping the bikeway and footpath corridor to build more freeway... Fantastic...
Would it not have been smarter to let the train line settle in for a few years, get people used to catching PT, then come back in 5 years or so to re-evaluate how the road is flowing? The rail corridor was already being built to accommodate the highway upgrade in the future so it wouldn't be difficult to do it later if it had to be done! Knowing QLD as well, the railway will be left to run at 100km/h (on half hourly frequenc e, of course!)as well, offering no real time advantage to using the train instead of the car...

I will be very, very pi$$ed off if this change also puts the completion date for the railway back as well, which wouldn't really surprise me either... 

As for where they found extra savings... No doubt some of the 'gold plating' that the LNP dumped was the bikeway/pedestrian walkway...

[ozbob]

Increasingly looking like one term wonders Petey3801!  And a fine locomotive that one too!   

[petey3801]

Increasingly looking like one term wonders Petey3801!  And a fine locomotive that one too!   

Agreed on both counts!! There is nothing quite like racing along the tracks to Newcastle behind a 38er at full cry!!

I'm personally greatly looking forward to the completion and opening of the railway to Springfield, as it will be a short walk from my house to Springfield station! Will be glad to be able to catch the train much easier and more often to work without having to worry about parking spaces at the station... Which is why i'm hoping the railway completion date is still the same (or hopefully earlier, with all this good weather we've had!!) as it was before the announcement of the highway upgrade...