Richlands to Springfield Central - Stage 2

[railguy83]

If they build an open plaza then it will be labeled as unfriendly and too hot (like King George Square), no matter what you do someone will complain! 

[O_128]

Call me skeptical but I reckon that all those trees around the station will have car parks under them.  It is only a drawing but I would prefer to see an open plaza with active use 24 x 7 and buildings closer to the station.

springfield is different as the Springfield corp has a huge say in the development, the buildings areound the station will most likely be finished before the station

[railguy83]

With Trackstar chosen to build Stage 2, there is a real possibility that the new town square will be finished before Springfield Station, unfortunately...

[johnnigh]

Have to agree with railguy83! The Corinda-Darra job seemed to take an age, and hardly any heavy-duty earthworks, by comparison with the job of carving a complete right-of-way corridor, some bridges, not to mention two stations. The drive along the current Cent. highway to Springfield makes the job look not too demanding, but still lots more than took 2 years between Corinda and Darra. They'll need to put their thinking-caps on to work out how to work a bit more quickly. Having no trains on tracks might help a bit.

[ozbob]

The Corinda - Darra project was 'brownfield' on one of the busiest lines (pass and freight) on the system.  The safe working rules of QR added much complexity, and under the circumstances it was a good job by Trackstar.   Another reason though why Ellen Grove rail station needs to be built 'greenfield'.

The Darra station upgrade was a very very complex project. 

I am delighted that Trackstar is doing the work to Springfield.

[mufreight]

To enable the continued operation of services through the Darra - Corinda section required a number of slews of the running lines to enable work to be carried out without the cesation of services for extended periods of time, each of these could not be carried out until various other works were carried out and when completed further realignment within the corridor was required, given the width of the avaliable corridor a most constrained operation which Trackstar under Project Manager Steel and his committed workers worked wonders, it was noticable that following the departure of Mr Steel from the position of Project Manager the difference in progress and the approach to dealing with the public by Trackstar with comments made by some that it appeared that Trackstar had dropped the ball on some works.    

[david]

I agree. Trackstar has proven itself in many greenfield projects, especially the wonderful Caboolture to Beerburrum duplication, which was done absolutely brilliantly! The delays with the Darra Station upgrade were not Trackstar's fault at all - if you cast your memory back, on numerous occasions which they had a scheduled track closure for the project, it rained!

Trackstar is also known for providing value for money. Firstly, they campaigned successfully to have the 4th track built between Corinda and Darra (albeit without electrification) without significant increases to the cost of the project. Once again, they have managed to include Springfield Lakes station in the scope of the project and still be under budget!

Trackstar gets my vote.

[somebody]

To enable the continued operation of services through the Darra - Corinda section required a number of slews of the running lines to enable work to be carried out without the cesation of services for extended periods of time, each of these could not be carried out until various other works were carried out and when completed further realignment within the corridor was required, given the width of the avaliable corridor a most constrained operation which Trackstar under Project Manager Steel and his committed workers worked wonders, it was noticable that following the departure of Mr Steel from the position of Project Manager the difference in progress and the approach to dealing with the public by Trackstar with comments made by some that it appeared that Trackstar had dropped the ball on some works.    

So this would have caused poor reliability of services during construction, then.  Perhaps we don't need any fat added to the timetable.

[railguy83]

If I remember from initial project time frames, Corinda to Darra was going to be finished about a year ahead of Darra to Richlands, which was delivered 6 months early.

Of course brownfield will be more difficult, this however should have been taken into account at the tendering phase, if they under estimated Corinda - Darra, have they underestimated Richlands to Springfield to win the job?  Time will tell and we all obviously want a positive outcome!   

What would be nice is to see what the budgets ended up for Corinda-Darra verses Darra - Richlands.... 

[Gazza]

and hardly any heavy-duty earthworks

There were.

http://img219.imageshack.us/i/corindarra.jpg/

What would be nice is to see what the budgets ended up for Corinda-Darra verses Darra - Richlands.... 

Could it be slightly over budget? The orignal scope only called for 3 tracks, with the 4th not to be built.

[mufreight]

If I remember from initial project time frames, Corinda to Darra was going to be finished about a year ahead of Darra to Richlands, which was delivered 6 months early.

Of course brownfield will be more difficult, this however should have been taken into account at the tendering phase, if they under estimated Corinda - Darra, have they underestimated Richlands to Springfield to win the job?  Time will tell and we all obviously want a positive outcome!   

What would be nice is to see what the budgets ended up for Corinda-Darra verses Darra - Richlands.... 

Bear in mind that originaly Corinda Darra was only going to be three tracks.

[Golliwog]

Changing Project Manager midway through a project never ends well. Much gets lost when the PM who worked on the project through the design stages and so knows everything about why they're doing what they're doing the way they're doing it leaves and someone has to read up on the project and no matter what records you keep, theres always things that you can't learn from reading up on the project.

As for the delays, the rain occuring during scheduled line closures most certainly wouldn't have helped, but the possibility of that happening should have been picked up during a risk workshop. Although that being said, there really isn't anything you can do to stop it happening you can't control the weather. And adding in the 4th track would have changed timeframes as well.

As for under-estimating Richlands to Springfield, I doubt it. They would have learnt things from Corinda-Darra, and other than that the two projects are very different in that its greenfield and so other than timings for ballast and rail trains, they can work to their own timetable. I would be surprised if Richlands-Springfield isn't delivered early like Richlands was.

Is there a possibility of including electrifying the 4th track Corinda-Darra + adding the 4th platform at Oxley in this project/the Oxley Station revamp?

[neidailou]

http://www.youtube.com/embed/efy_kDKqJbQ

found this on another forum that gives a better impression of the whole station.

[Golliwog]

Looks pretty good. The one thing I could see that might be a hassle is that theres only the one set of go gates. Other than that, it looks pretty good. They seemed to have included shop space in the design as well.

[Jonno]

Does look great but being a Town Centre needs 12 stoey surrounding it a a min.  Just an animation I know.  Long term intent mut be the creation of an active and safe public space.

[#Metro]

Did you want 2 go gates? Its not done yet, and it is just a glass wall. Maybe that could be replaced with another exit?
Seems a bit strange to have just one entry/exit. What if there was a fire or something?

[Stillwater]

In case of emergency, break glass.   

[Golliwog]

They'll just put those little red hammers nearby.

[SteelPan]

So, where to AFTER the Springfield Station opens - is this the line proposed to go on the Ripley???

[mufreight]

So, where to AFTER the Springfield Station opens - is this the line proposed to go on the Ripley???

Yes, the question being when?

[O_128]

So, where to AFTER the Springfield Station opens - is this the line proposed to go on the Ripley???

Doubt it, Current gov seems intent on pushing it via ipswich, why you wouldn't go via Springfield makes little sense considering that trains wont have to contend with freight. Ripley via Springfield really should be achievable by 2016-2018 with  long term plan to connect to ipswich

[mufreight]

Seems that they have already done the survey for the line to do the loop from Springfield via Ripley into Ipswich, but then the first survey for the Redcliffe line was carried out around 1906 so I would not go buy a ticket just yet, it could be a loooooooong wait for the train.

[SteelPan]

So, where to AFTER the Springfield Station opens - is this the line proposed to go on the Ripley???

Yes, the question being when?

Just wondering if that was indeed the plan.

So, if I have it right (whick would be a first), Ripley via Springfield SHOULD be what's done, but Govt favour Ripley via Ipswich?  Would the Govt option also produce the loop line ie, Ipswich, Ripley, Springfield?   Or, is it only Ripley via Ipswich - with no link to Springfield?

:conf

[QGT]

When will work start on the two Springfield Stations?? Last time I was out that way couldn't see any signs of the two stations.

[ozbob]

Went for a look at Ellen Grove today.  The visit certainly confirmed for me that construction of the station at Ellen Grove greenfield would be sensible.  Considerable residential developments at Forest Lake and Carole Park (residential and industrial) would have access, and would help relieve pressure at Richlands.

General area where the Ellen Grove station is likely to be, far side of the motorway.














Rail bridge between Richlands and Ellen Grove.  



From the bicycle path












Note the gap in the noise barriers in the photograph below.  
This is the location of a supposed connection to the bicycle path from residential area in Carole Park, from which the photograph was taken.

??



Photographs R Dow 18th June 2011

[mufreight]

Link to nearmap showing Ellengrove station sit and proximity to the residential development of Forest Lake, Carole Park and Ellengrove.
http://www.nearmap.com/?11=-27.616186,152.945244&z=16&nmd=20110324.
This view also shows the ready for track section of the alignment south of Richlands to the completed bridge for the rail line over Waterford Road.
If there was the will to do so it would be possible to complete the trackbed through the Ellengrove station site, build the station, lay the track, errect the overgead and have trains operating within six months.
Richlands station is now on some mornings parked out by 8.30, the additional 250 spaces that could be avaliable at Ellengrove would relieve this until the line is completed to Springwood taking considerable loading of the mobile parking lot that the Centenary Highway becomes between the Ipswich Motorway and the CBD.

[Gazza]

until the line is completed to Springwood

[railguy83]

Link to nearmap showing Ellengrove station sit and proximity to the residential development of Forest Lake, Carole Park and Ellengrove.
http://www.nearmap.com/?11=-27.616186,152.945244&z=16&nmd=20110324.
This view also shows the ready for track section of the alignment south of Richlands to the completed bridge for the rail line over Waterford Road.
If there was the will to do so it would be possible to complete the trackbed through the Ellengrove station site, build the station, lay the track, errect the overgead and have trains operating within six months.
Richlands station is noe on some mornings parked out by 8.30, the additional 250 spaces that could be avaliable at Ellengrove would relieve this until the line is completed to Springwood taking considerable loading of the mobile parking lot that the Centenary Highway becomes between the Ipswich Motorway and the CBD.

If you have a closer look at the nearmap imagery, you will notice the corridor change from grey to a more earthy colour after the first bridge at the end of the constructed track (about 90m), which means that there is no capping placed past this point. Therefore there has only been bulk earthworks done south of there, so including the bridge, you could build 190m of track tomorrow, but thats well short of the 1.5km of new track and trackside systems you need to build to get to ellen grove. Not saying that it is hard to build it, you just need the formation, cable route and a station first 

Has there even been any construction started on Richlands to Soringfield? I would have expected pile rigs in the logan mwy by now starting on that viaduct!

[mufreight]

It would take a matter of a couple of weeks to run out the capping from the Bullockhead Creek bridge to Waterford Road bridge, as for the cable route some of the conduit is already in place.
The slow bit would be the earthworks for the actual station and car park and the alignment beyond the station site as far as Julie Road.
The actual construction of the station itself if built to a simple functional design could taking the works at Darra as a benchmark could be acomplished in a few months add another three weeks for the tracklaying and erection of the overhead and a five to six month build time is more than reasonable.

[railguy83]

Anyone seen any progress thus far on the project? 2013 is not that far away and there is a very long bridge to be built 

[ozbob]

From  the Couriermail click here!

State Government ticks rail line for Springfield

State Government ticks rail line for Springfield

    by: Selina Steele
    From: The Courier-Mail
    October 18, 2011 12:00AM

IT HAS spent years on the drawing board but now the State Government is expected to announce commencement of the rail line to Springfield this month.

The $475 million rail extension will include two new train stations - Springfield Central, near Orion Shopping Centre, and Springfield, near Woodcrest College.

Acting Transport Minister Cameron Dick yesterday confirmed the project was due to be finished in 2013 - two years early.

"As part of our commitment to growing public transport, we're building a new 9.5km dual rail line from Richlands to Springfield," Mr Dick said.

"The project will deliver two train stations and safety and capacity improvements on the Centenary Highway.

"It also includes a cycle path between Julie Rd, Carol Park and Springfield Lakes and a shared-use path from Springfield Lakes to the Springfield Station."

It is also planned to include 100 car parks at Springfield Central and 200 parks at Springfield.

Commuter advocacy group Back on Track welcomed the plan but warned other projects, such as the proposed cross-river rail, needed to be fast-tracked.

"We think the State Government has grossly underestimated its forecast of public transport trips," spokesman for Back On Track Robert Dow said.

"The State Government has quoted an extra 100 million trips to be made in southeast Queensland by 2018 - up from 178 million in 2010-2011.

"But external factors, such as increasing fuel costs, haven't been given enough credence. And the proposed patronage target is unachievable on present policies."

Mr Dow's proposed solutions include:

* Public transport to be available around the clock.

* Fast-track cross-river rail.

* More green bridges to allow buses to cross the river, particularly at Bulimba and Kenmore.

* More bus routes that travel from suburb to suburb without cutting through Brisbane's CBD.

[Fares_Fair]

Quote from story above.
"As part of our commitment to growing public transport, we're building a new 9.5km dual rail line from Richlands to Springfield," Mr Dick said.

I wonder what the population of Springfield is ?

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[O_128]

Quote from story above.
"As part of our commitment to growing public transport, we're building a new 9.5km dual rail line from Richlands to Springfield," Mr Dick said.

I wonder what the population of Springfield is ?

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

Wonder whats so important in springfield.

Also love government spin, 2 years early but 3 years late.

[ozbob]

Springfield has long been touted as a major planned development.  Developers have been very supportive for public transport solutions in the big picture.  Population is nothing like the combined Sunny Coast, but significant.  Just google for the latest.  Around 50,000 now I think at the Lakes and growing rapidly.  It will be a very well supported rail service.

The other advantage of course is this Darra <-> Richlands <-> Springfield  with a long history of local members working hard for the outcome.  When I first settled at Darra (1992) it was because I knew of the plans for the rail to Springfield.  Interesting the  initial plans were for the line to branch off between Oxley and Darra, roughly a few hundred metres down from Pannard corner, and track under 'the highway' onto to Inala and thence Springfield.  In fact from my house at Darra one can overlook the western line and roughly were the branch would have been as for the original concept.  The other thing that won me was the house has a piece of railway line as a girder .. LOL.

[ozbob]

And we can be very happy the line is dual track.  It took a few years to convince them to do that, although Queensland Rail and its precursors were always pushing too for a dual line.

They had actually planned to build it single line from Richlands to Springfield Lakes (first name was Stepham) then dual to Springfield Central.

[Fares_Fair]

Springfield has long been touted as a major planned development.  Developers have been very supportive for public transport solutions in the big picture.  Population is nothing like the combined Sunny Coast, but significant.  Just google for the latest.  Around 50,000 now I think at the Lakes and growing rapidly.  It will be a very well supported rail service.

The other advantage of course is this Darra <-> Richlands <-> Springfield  with a long history of local members working hard for the outcome.  When I first settled at Darra (1992) it was because I knew of the plans for the rail to Springfield.  Interesting the  initial plans were for the line to branch off between Oxley and Darra, roughly a few hundred metres down from Pannard corner, and track under 'the highway' onto to Inala and thence Springfield.  In fact from my house at Darra one can overlook the western line and roughly were the branch would have been as for the original concept.  The other thing that won me was the house has a piece of railway line as a girder .. LOL.

I do not disagree with you ozbob regarding its use or need.

EDIT: From Wikipedia: In 2009, the Greater Springfield area had a population of 18,100 with 80,000 people expected to call Springfield home by 2030.

I merely point out the incongruity of the Sunshine Coast population of 330,000 with a single line track and work stopping early on dual tracks in April 2009
and compare this to the Springfield situation with a population of less than 1/10 (around 22,000) and getting duplicated track, albeit over just 9.5km.
IMHO, it's a salient point.

As you know, on the Sunshine Coast the local member of red team loses seat to blue team and 24 days later duplication stops.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Stillwater]

The Sunny Coast is also in the unfortunate position that the LNP one-man-band, Campbell Newman, has ruled the SC seats (except Nicklin) as 'safe' and is set to put his priorities elsewhere.  There could be a goodie or two for Nicklin voters to win them away from Peter Wellington (Ind), but he is highly regarded in the area.  Remember when a local paper asked Sunny Coast LNP members where they would spend $1 billion if it was as their disposal?  They said they could not answer without first consulting Can-do (because they had been gagged).  They then agreed that the Sunshine Coast University Hospital was their No.1 priority and, shortly after, Can-do said he would rip $400 million from its budget, thereby jeopardising its start date.  The State Government has already delayed this project, and CAMCOS and duplication to Landsborough/Nambour after making specific promises.  BOTH parties are taking Sunshine Coast voters for granted.  There is nothing to distinguish them as far as SC voters are concerned.

So far, all that the LNP has managed to do is what the state government has done – produced another glossy brochure, containing statements such as this:

"We will guarantee the delivery of affordable and efficient transport infrastructure to support sustainable growth on the Sunshine Coast."
Guarantee?  How?

Deliver?  Deliver what and when?

Here is a copy of the existing LNP Sunshine Coast policy.  It's meaningless.
http://www.fionasimpson.com.au/Portals/0/Sunshine-Coast-Policy-Booklet-A4-pdf.pdf

[somebody]

I thought it was expected to house well more than that.  1 mil by some date (2050?)

[colinw]

I merely point out the incongruity of the Sunshine Coast population of 330,000 with a single line track and work stopping early on dual tracks in April 2009
and compare this to the Springfield situation with a population of less than 1/10 (around 22,000) and getting duplicated track, albeit over just 9.5km.
IMHO, it's a salient point.

That's not an argument against Springfield, rather an argument FOR the case that the Government has been completely negligent in its duty when it comes to the 300,000+ Sunshine Coast residents.

Not that I expect a change of Government to do anything. The best option for the Sunshine Coast is to make their seats marginal, or have one or more strong pro-rail independent candidates like the "Where's out railway?" campaign that gave the ALP a fright in Redcliffe.

Newman I expect will pay lip service and no more, while taking the coast for granted as a strong LNP area.

[Fares_Fair]

I thought it was expected to house well more than that.  1 mil by some date (2050?)

From their website...

http://www.greaterspringfield.com.au/key-facts.php

Estimated current population of six suburbs - more than 22,000 residents

Planned 2030 residential population - 86,000 residents

Job creation target for 2030 - 30,000 (one for every three residents)

Regards,
Fares_Fair.