CityGlider Feedback

[#Metro]

What do you think about the CityGlider now that it has been in service for a while now?

I think it should stop all stops.
Athough BCC might be thinking its BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) and therefore runs express, I think that its missing a lot of people and is a bit inconvenient for those at the other stops which have almost a non-service with the 192.

[ButFli]

I think it's smashing. The only way it could be made better is to follow the 199 route through New Farm.

[#Metro]

I caught it a few times, now I just walk to the 199, I can't be bothered walking all the way to the "special" bus stop. And 199 isn't free either. That's how inconvenient it is to catch- at least $3.90 worth of inconvenience.

Stopping all stops would add minimal time to the bus route which would be more than outweighed by new passengers having access to it. BTW: Whats the patronage like on the bus. I can't see through the blue wrap all over it.

[#Metro]

Caught the CityGlider, today is the first day of full fare operation.

By the time the bus pulled into West End shops it was full with people.  
The newstead leg is a bit far from James Street, so a (UQ)-Toowong-Milton Rd- Brisbane Powerhouse CityGlider idea is still feasible.

So when are the real superbuses coming? If this keeps up BCC will have to put a bus on all day every 5 minutes and then introduce arctics or similar. BCC will have to scramble.

And to think that just a few months ago, hardly anybody caught public transport down Montague Road and the 191 and 192 buses were virtually empty. Frequency makes all the difference in the world.

[Otto]

Caught the CityGlider, today is the first day of full fare operation.
snip
And to think that just a few months ago, hardly anybody caught public transport down Montague Road and the 191 and 192 buses were virtually empty. Frequency makes all the difference in the world.

If only QR would sit up and take notice... *sigh*

[Jon Bryant]

Caught the CityGlider, today is the first day of full fare operation.
snip
And to think that just a few months ago, hardly anybody caught public transport down Montague Road and the 191 and 192 buses were virtually empty. Frequency makes all the difference in the world.

If only QR would sit up and take notice... *sigh*

If only Translink would allow QR to sit up and take notice!!!

[#Metro]

If only Translink would allow QR to sit up and take notice!!!

If only the Minister would allow Translink to allow QR to sit up and take notice! 

There are just too many opportunities for communication gaps and organizational boundaries to hide behind to get anything done within a lean time frame.

[dwb]

I heard from a reputable source the redrafted Translink Network Plan went to the Minister for approval in December 2008. Still no word.

Translink can only do what it is empowered, through an approved plan to carry out.

[#Metro]

If that is the case, then that is a very rigid way of doing things.
No wonder it takes so long to change things- they have to wait, what 4 years, and then write a huge report to do it.
What a great big drag on doing things.

Some things (not all) you just can't plan for. They should have some contingency for things that crop up (like overcrowding on Nth busway until route 66 got extended). Then when the next plan comes around they could review it and decide whether to keep it or change it.

Translink needs to be reformed I think. And I mean something more substantial than simply attaching the words "Transit Authority" to the end of the organisation's name.

[dwb]

It is my understanding that Translink in Vancouver has control of the roads too.

If TL here could overrule DTMR and BCC that might be a good start.

[somebody]

I heard from a reputable source the redrafted Translink Network Plan went to the Minister for approval in December 2008. Still no word.

Translink can only do what it is empowered, through an approved plan to carry out.

That's ridiculous.

I want to see a source.  If Translink haven't been allowed to do anything not already on the previous plan, and waiting for 17 months, the minister should resign.

[Golliwog]

Hasn't the minister changed in the last 17 months though? Perhaps it got lost in the changeover?

[somebody]

Hasn't the minister changed in the last 17 months though? Perhaps it got lost in the changeover?

True.  One would presume that the incoming minister was at least advised upon taking office, and probably reminded about it since.

[Golliwog]

You'd hope so.

[ozbob]

From the Brisbane mX 31st May 2010 page 4

Getting off Cityglider

[dwb]

Presumably lots of people have switched back to other services like the 199, I reckon it will stabilise.

Besides, did they say 100,000 for 3wks, and then 50,000 for 2? That is only 33k down to 25k/wk.
Plus, the 100,000 figure would be so guestimate it is not funny - what methodology did they use to determine this number - it certainly wasn't go card data!!!

[#Metro]

Well I am not surprised.  
Its simple: CityGlider is not convenient to access.
I find 199 more convenient, because it stops everywhere.

Put in more bus stops and people will use it. This is mass transit, not rapid transit. It no use clinging to guidelines and technical specifications if ultimately, in practice, the service isn't working to its full potential. Do a 3 month trial with extra bus stops and then compare.

[somebody]

I heard from a reputable source the redrafted Translink Network Plan went to the Minister for approval in December 2008. Still no word.

Translink can only do what it is empowered, through an approved plan to carry out.

That's ridiculous.

I want to see a source.  If Translink haven't been allowed to do anything not already on the previous plan, and waiting for 17 months, the minister should resign.

In fact, isn't the reason why they became a statutory authority is to have a degree of independence from the Minister.  Although the Minister does have the power in the legislation to prevent them from acquiring certain assets.

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

CityGlider off to flying start

CityGlider off to flying start
MARISSA CALLIGEROS
July 15, 2010 - 5:58AM

Brisbane's first 24 hour high-frequency bus service has been hailed a success just three months after it hit inner-city streets.

The $5 million CityGlider service has carried more 300,000 passengers, according to Brisbane City Council.

Council's Public and Active Transport chair Margaret de Wit said CityGlider, which runs on a continuous loop between West End and Newstead, has carried more than 100,000 passengers each month since its launch in April.

"You can't ask for a better start than that," Cr de Wit said.

"This shows that, contrary to what the knockers say, the demand for this service is already there and will continue to grow as more people call our inner-city suburbs home.''

Cr de Wit said an average 26,000 commuters used the CityGlider each week.

CityGlider services run from the West End ferry terminal via Montague Road, Mollison Road and Melbourne Street, crossing the Brisbane River over the Victoria Bridge and travelling through the CBD and Fortitude Valley along Wickham and Ann streets to the Teneriffe ferry terminal.

CityGlider buses depart every five minutes during peak hour and every 10-15 minutes during off-peak times.

However the service has drawn criticism from West End residents after the council demolished and removed a timber character house to provide space for the new CityGlider to turn.

[stephenk]

This is good news, and hopefully will increase the likely hood of other high frequency cross-city bus transit routes.

I would like to point out to those who think there should be a dedicated metro in Brisbane today - the CityGlider is handling 26,000 passengers a week. A typical London Underground Line can carry over 26,000 passengers per hour! Brisbane has a long way to go before a self-contained metro can be financially justified. Due to expected increase in the number of passengers commuting in from the suburbs a cross city suburban rail system (offering a metro like service in the CBD) can be justified - as per Cross River Rail.

[#Metro]

I'm optimistic that the current QR CityTrain network can be changed into something like a metro, and sooner rather than later.
More trains please!

[ozbob]

Due to expected increase in the number of passengers commuting in from the suburbs a cross city suburban rail system (offering a metro like service in the CBD) can be justified - as per Cross River Rail.

Yes, this is the reality.  Heavy rail extensions (albeit some underground) are and will be the priority for now.  No Australian city has a metro and frankly is unlikely to get one either IMHO.  Both Melbourne and Sydney are exactly what our network is developing into.  'Metro like' to a small degree but in reality a commuter heavy rail system with a high frequency through and to the CBD and satellite regions.

I would not be surprised if the Gold Coast light rail sparks a renewed drive for some light rail in inner Brisbane.  This is far more likely than a metro IMHO.

 

[dwb]

From my perspective the point about metro is:
- what can it do for the city's development over the next 50 years

rather than:
- will it be full when you build it.

A metro in place of CityGlider would have significantly different service characteristics and would likely attract higher patronage than the bus route. If it extended from Indro/ Toowong to Bulimba/ Northshore/ Airport I think there would be good patronage if appropriately priced.

Obviously it would require borrowing, but I don't think this is a bad thing? How many people in our community just go out and buy their car from savings, not many, and they manage to pay them off over time. That is how we should approach the metro.

[stephenk]

From my perspective the point about metro is:
- what can it do for the city's development over the next 50 years

rather than:
- will it be full when you build it.

A metro in place of CityGlider would have significantly different service characteristics and would likely attract higher patronage than the bus route. If it extended from Indro/ Toowong to Bulimba/ Northshore/ Airport I think there would be good patronage if appropriately priced.

Obviously it would require borrowing, but I don't think this is a bad thing? How many people in our community just go out and buy their car from savings, not many, and they manage to pay them off over time. That is how we should approach the metro.

I would agree that a metro doesn't need to be full from the onset, but it does require a pretty reasonable amount of patronage right from the start. Few metro lines are built with initial service provision at less than half of maximum capacity (approx 12-15tph peak). Even with this in mind Brisbane would not be able to sustain a self-contained metro for many years.

As I've stated a suburban rail system crossing the city, running a high frequency "metro like" service through the city is where we are heading. Many Japanese metro lines are linked at each end to suburban rail lines allowing through services. German S-Bahn, and Paris RER are of similar operational design. This kills three birds with one stone - suburbs to city journeys, CBD to CBD journeys, and cross city suburb to suburb journeys.

[somebody]

I heard from a reputable source the redrafted Translink Network Plan went to the Minister for approval in December 2008. Still no word.

Translink can only do what it is empowered, through an approved plan to carry out.

Looked up the legislation on this point, and it does indeed say that there needs to be an approved plan.  Got to say, I think this is a stupid piece of legislation and it undermines everything that making TTA a statutory authority might have achieved.  If I worked in Translink, I would want to be careful not to put anything I care about doing in the plan unless omitting it then doing it would raise questions.  If it contains something like "Improved Nightlink" and not approved, then what are you going to do?

If the Minister has not approved the plan or requested alterations since taking office then that is a scandal IMO.

[skippy]

I was at Teneriffe Ferry and overheard an irate woman who had boarded the CityGlider at Skyring Terrace, heading for the city as shown on the map. She was irate because after one stop the bus terminated at Teneriffe. The driver explained that where she lived (one of the new Gasworks development apartments on the river) she could only use the Glider to return from the city, and would need to find another bus route for the inbound leg. e.g Route 300. She vowed never to use public transport again.

With a massive development nearing completion on SkyRing Terrace this made me question
1. Was the Glider originally intended to operate as a loop at the Teneriffe end rather than terminating.
2. Is there any reason why the Glider uses Commercial Road inbound rather than Skyring both ways?

[Golliwog]

Just out of curiosity, what time was this? Because if it was when it's transitioning from peak (every 5 minutes) to off peak (every 10-15 minutes) then the bus has to terminate somewhere.

Interesting, I hadn't thought much about what happens on the loop at the Teneriffe end. I would have thought something similar to what this woman clearly did, as there's no printed timetable, and the map doesn't show Teneriffe Ferry as a terminus stop. That said, having buses go in and out of service at the Teneriffe end makes more sense, being closer to their depot, but during the day I would have thought changing the driver at Teneriffe would have been the done thing, keeping the bus in service. Still a delay, but better than kicking people off the bus.

I think for a service like the Glider, they really need to get away from the fixation on running to a timetable (which when one isn't printed for the Gliders anyway, is a stupid concept) and focus on just keeping the buses moving.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Back in the day there were never stops outside the cement place as it was used for onstreet parking. When CityGlider was introduced they were in the mid or late stages of building the new ferry terminal IIRC so busses couldn't use that small bit of commercial road as it was used as a place to store parts for the upgrade for a very long time. So instead of wasting time using the next street along to turn around (which can be a hassel with a bus and with traffic in regards to the turning space) along with issues for a proper bus stop due to lack of space it just continued along commercial road as the new inbound route. When the works were over they moved the stop back to commercial road. Or so one of the drivers told me while they were doing those works which closed off the road a while back.

[SurfRail]

I've encountered this situation numerous times.  It's silly - the recovery time should be at West End where there is no loop to get stuck half-way along.

Better yet it should just go down Skyring both ways.  The Commercial Road stop at Waterloo/Emporium could just as easily be the 300/306 etc stop on Ann Street, and there are no other stops served between the ferry and this point.

[somebody]

Equally silly is that the 470 still goes to Teneriffe Ferry.

[skippy]

I've encountered this situation numerous times.  It's silly - the recovery time should be at West End where there is no loop to get stuck half-way along.

Better yet it should just go down Skyring both ways.  The Commercial Road stop at Waterloo/Emporium could just as easily be the 300/306 etc stop on Ann Street, and there are no other stops served between the ferry and this point.

The suggestion for the glider to use Skyring both ways is excellent. An ideal location for a city bound bus stop would be just before the Cunningham St traffic signals - almost opposite the existing outbound glider stop in the heart of the massive Gasworks development. Seems so logical. What is the chance of BCC adopting this?

[SurfRail]

They could have done it from day 1.  I'm curious to know why they didn't.

[somebody]

They could have done it from day 1.  I'm curious to know why they didn't.

I'm guessing that the theory was to widen the reach of the service.  So long as the dwell at Teneriffe isn't too long, it isn't an all bad theory.

[SurfRail]

The issue is that the only additional bus stop served by taking this tack is about 200m walking distance from an existing bus stop on Ann St which is closer to Emporium (which frankly I think is the biggest drawcard in the area).

[nathandavid88]

They could have done it from day 1.  I'm curious to know why they didn't.

I agree with Simon, there are a lot of people who work along Commercial Drive, and back when the City Glider was introduced, a large portion of that Newstead area was still derelict land. The Gasworks development only got started in the last 6 odd months I'm pretty sure, and there's still a lot of development projects up there still to be started. That said, for that theory to work, the Glider really needs another stop along Commercial Road to service that residential pocket there. Maybe move the existing Commercial Road in front of the apartments on the corner of Arthur Street?

As good as the Glider is, the stops along the northern part of the valley are a little bit weird in their placement, in my opinion. The big issue I have is that there's no outbound stop near James Street. You either have to walk up from the Brunswick Street stop near McWhirters, walk down from the Light Street stop at Emporium, or go around the horn an risk being stranded at Teneriffe. It needs to stop on Wickham Street near East Street, James Street is a big enough draw card to warrant such a stop. The existing bus stop near the Valley Pool would work a treat!

[somebody]

I never noticed how close the stop on Commercial Rd is to the nearby one on Ann St though.  Surely it would make sense to be a bit further away, otherwise it would be better to just use Skyring Tce.

[bagbuffy]

I have caught the Glider a few times now, and as a resident of Bulimba/Morningside I am appalled of the Glider and How the BCC treats the residents of the Eastern Suburbs, as we are given a 3rd rate bus Network  while the New Farm/Teneriffe residents get given a top notch service, where you are guaranteed to have your own seat.

Admittedly I haven't caught the Glider during Peak Hours, though I have now caught the Glider on weekends and during the day (non peak times) and on all occasions the Buses have basically been empty to quarter full would be the max. The drivers drive pretty slow, and once at commercial Road we stopped for almost 5mins like a lay over, I imagine so the Glider isn't early. How the Glider is a 15min service during Non peak Mon-Fri  and during the weekend has me baffled, Teneriffe is way over serviced, especially during the Non Peak Times.

It feels like we at Bulimba, Morningside, Balmoral and Cannon Hill along Wynnum rd to Wynnum  who are running full buses with longer waiting times and also with longer routes are subsidising  the buses that are way way over servicing New Farm and Teneriffe.

What's worse now is the Maroon Glider, again some certain Suburbs are being way over serviced. 

And once again, the Eastern Suburbs gets shafted.

[#Metro]

Not much is going to happen unless Bulimba Residents and Traders and Businesses along Oxford Street get organised and make noise - balloons, petitions, flyers, rallies, letters to the editors, get the local councillor on board, doorknock, letterboxing, signs in windows of businesses along the street demanding a BulimbaGlider/BUZ, Corflutes in front of houses demanding PT, car bumper stickers (ironic). The whole place is extremely difficult to get to and takes a long time using other methods for a suburb that is SO close to the CBD. I do like the Bulimba restaurants and the cinema is the cheapest in Brisbane but it is just SO HARD to get there.

Run a campaign is what I'd suggest.

[newbris]

Not much is going to happen unless Bulimba Residents and Traders and Businesses along Oxford Street get organised and make noise - balloons, petitions, flyers, rallies, letters to the editors, get the local councillor on board, doorknock, letterboxing, signs in windows of businesses along the street demanding a BulimbaGlider/BUZ, Corflutes in front of houses demanding PT, car bumper stickers (ironic). The whole place is extremely difficult to get to and takes a long time using other methods for a suburb that is SO close to the CBD. I do like the Bulimba restaurants and the cinema is the cheapest in Brisbane but it is just SO HARD to get there.

Run a campaign is what I'd suggest.

Not commenting on the commuter buz suburbs to city service issue in other parts of bulimba too far away from the citycats, but I find Oxford st pretty easy for leisure trips for a suburb 7km away. The citycat service is so great to use and I doubt we would switch to a long bus route instead. Granted may be different late night or for others but we find the citycat a joy to use as a daytime/early evening service. Such a great trip. The frequency of a citycat does involve more careful trip planning but we find it worth it...I guess others may not, just my situation.

[#Metro]

Not commenting on the commuter buz suburbs to city service issue in other parts of bulimba too far away from the citycats, but I find Oxford st pretty easy for a suburb 7km away. The citycat service is so great to use and I doubt we would switch to a long bus route instead. Granted may be different late night or for others but we find the citycat a joy to use as a daytime/early evening service. Such a great trip.

The areas of Ashgrove, Paddington etc have access to BUZ services and possibly even train already, this is little different to saying that 'Bulimba has a ferry'. Sure it has a ferry terminal, but you have a BUZ!!

Secondly, the ferry services catchment doesn't cover a large part of Bulimba, as shown in Gazza's analysis, thirdly it takes a whopping 42 MINUTES journey time to get the CityCat from North Quay to Bulimba Ferry Terminal, and that is without factoring in waiting time, so if we add waiting time that is now + 15 minutes on top of that so that is 57 minutes, add walking - ONE HOUR at least to travel to a suburb that is so close to the CBD - that is absolutely outrageous for an inner city location and I think it would be better to live at Beenleigh and catch the Gold Coast express train because that only takes 45 minutes ex Beenleigh as actually almost the same time taken as catching the ferry to Bulimba!!. The 230 bus only takes 27 minutes to perform the same journey, 40% (or 15 minutes faster than the ferry, assuming that you live right next to the ferry terminal).