Terms of use Privacy About us Media Contact

Author Topic: Courier Mail: Double Deck Tunnels  (Read 3027 times)

Offline #Metro

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 20298
Courier Mail: Double Deck Tunnels
« on: April 13, 2010, 11:34:33 PM »
Courier Mail: Double deck road to fix congestion

"Fix" it. Really?

Negative people... have a problem for every solution.
Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members. Not affiliated with, paid by or in conspiracy with MTR/Metro.

Offline Golliwog

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5038
Re: Courier Mail: Double Deck Tunnels
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2010, 01:26:00 AM »
....but..... thats a stupid idea. The single good thing that was in there was the mention that they figured they would provide 2 bus lanes in it.
There is no silver bullet… but there is silver buckshot.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Online ozbob

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 93161
    • RAIL Back On Track
Re: Courier Mail: Double Deck Tunnels
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2010, 03:39:05 AM »
From the Courier Mail click here!

Double-deck road in Brisbane River to fix bottleneck at Kingsford-Smith Drive

Quote
Double-deck road in Brisbane River to fix bottleneck at Kingsford-Smith Drive

    * Bruce McMahon
    * From: The Courier-Mail
    * April 13, 2010 9:33PM

Source: The Courier-Mail

A MULTI-LEVEL roadway in the Brisbane River could be a $650 million option to unclog Kingsford Smith Drive, Brisbane's next biggest traffic tangle.

The 2km viaduct could carry double decks of two-lane carriageway between Newstead and Hamilton, where Kingsford Smith Drive's width is restricted by a cliff.

Above the box-like tunnel would be a widened boulevard with four vehicle lanes – two for public transport – plus a landscaped area and bicycle path.

The viaduct concept, designed by Brisbane City Council engineers, would reclaim perhaps 20m from the 300m-wide river in the Hamilton Reach.

There are no plans for a toll.

Already overloaded with close to 5000 vehicles an hour in peak times, the road from Newstead to Eagle Farm and beyond could carry an extra 50,000 vehicles a day by 2026, despite Airport Link easing congestion by by taking a projected 195,000 vehicles a day.

Lord Mayor Campbell Newman says the vital link between the city and port has to be upgraded with allowance for better public and active transport before it becomes the city's worst bottleneck.

With the Hamilton Northshore development expected to have 15,000 residents in the next 10 to 15 years, the Australia TradeCoast North industrial area expanding to 50,000 new jobs by 2030 – plus Brisbane Airport business growing to 100,000 passengers a day by 2024 – Kingsford Smith Drive is headed for permanent gridlock.

Traffic already does not let up from 6am to 6pm and most westbound traffic is headed beyond the city centre. An RACQ survey in 2007 found the road had the slowest outbound morning traffic at 23.9km/h.

Cr Newman believes planning has to start now to relieve traffic pressures on the road.

"Broadly speaking you can go out over the river and build bus lanes, go out over the river and build bus, general and bike lanes. Or you can go under in a tunnel," Cr Newman said.

Cr Newman says the viaduct is the most exciting of concepts presented by city engineers.

"It would be a public transport and active transport project, a road project and also an amenity project. It would allow people to enjoy this promenade right along the river," he said.

Issues to be considered include the river bank's sharp drop-off and 17m-deep holes in the river floor. On the western end the viaduct-tunnel could flow from the Inner CIty Bypass tunnel but to the east it may need to come out beyond Nudgee Rd for the best alignment.
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Instagram   Facebook  @ozbob13@mastodon.social

Offline O_128

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2591
Re: Courier Mail: Double Deck Tunnels
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2010, 07:10:56 AM »
so its ok to reclaim the river for a disgusting new river side expressway but when north bank was proposed people freaked out.
"Where else but Queensland?"

Offline #Metro

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 20298
Re: Courier Mail: Double Deck Tunnels
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2010, 07:45:47 AM »
Riverside Expressway should be put in a double deck tunnel and then dismantled!
Wrong place Campbell!
Negative people... have a problem for every solution.
Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members. Not affiliated with, paid by or in conspiracy with MTR/Metro.

Jon Bryant

  • Guest
Re: Courier Mail: Double Deck Tunnels
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2010, 08:02:56 AM »
Neather this tunnel or any other tunnel should be built until an independent review of the impacts on traffic congestion from the current roads program has been completed.  A review that would show the recent road infrastructure program by all levels of Govt has done nothing to ease congestion and is creating greater car usage.

It is time to take the "1960's roads are the solution to congestion" blinkers off and face the reality that we have spent 40 years creating the traffic problems of today not failed to fix them.  When will this rot stop? when SEQ is complete basket case?

Offline Golliwog

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5038
Re: Courier Mail: Double Deck Tunnels
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2010, 08:29:13 AM »
I think the idea of dedicated bus lanes is great, but that they seem to think that the only way to provide the road space to put them in is to at the same time provide 6 other lanes for private cars, and totally defeats the purpose of bus lanes. If theres that many lanes, I doubt a buslane would really speed up the progress of a bus compared to private cars.
There is no silver bullet… but there is silver buckshot.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

somebody

  • Guest
Re: Courier Mail: Double Deck Tunnels
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2010, 11:06:58 AM »
I think the idea of dedicated bus lanes is great, but that they seem to think that the only way to provide the road space to put them in is to at the same time provide 6 other lanes for private cars, and totally defeats the purpose of bus lanes. If theres that many lanes, I doubt a buslane would really speed up the progress of a bus compared to private cars.
Not really.  Look at the Sydney Harbour Bridge bus lane.  That was put in at the same time as the Harbour Tunnel.  Almost 20 years later, the road is far less of a bottleneck than it was before the tunnel went in, mostly due to the bus lane.  Sure a brute force conversion of one lane may be better in the long term, but too much pain for car drivers to be electorally palattable.

Offline Golliwog

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5038
Re: Courier Mail: Double Deck Tunnels
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2010, 06:39:08 PM »
And thats what I hate about politicians. Even if they know something is the right thing to do, they will do anything but that just to get re-elected. They should have the guts to force something that the community may not really like when they do it, but will be for the benefit of the community in the long run.
There is no silver bullet… but there is silver buckshot.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Jon Bryant

  • Guest
Re: Courier Mail: Double Deck Tunnels
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2010, 06:55:39 PM »
...and my kids will pay dearly with increase taxes, their health, their safety, and more.  And they will probably be the lucky ones.  Then there is the environment which is on deaths door in SEQ.

somebody

  • Guest
Re: Courier Mail: Double Deck Tunnels
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2010, 09:23:49 AM »
And thats what I hate about politicians. Even if they know something is the right thing to do, they will do anything but that just to get re-elected. They should have the guts to force something that the community may not really like when they do it, but will be for the benefit of the community in the long run.
But would be doing anything different if you were a politician?

Jon Bryant

  • Guest
Re: Courier Mail: Double Deck Tunnels
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2010, 03:27:05 PM »
Yes but I would also actively educate my community.

Offline Golliwog

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5038
Re: Courier Mail: Double Deck Tunnels
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2010, 05:37:30 PM »
And thats what I hate about politicians. Even if they know something is the right thing to do, they will do anything but that just to get re-elected. They should have the guts to force something that the community may not really like when they do it, but will be for the benefit of the community in the long run.
But would be doing anything different if you were a politician?

I wouldn't not do something just because I knew it was unpopular. I'd try to communicate with the community why something else (eg: bus lanes) were better, but I'd still do it either way. People these days don't want to change from their private car using ways. Yes I know some just can't use PT (tradies, delivery drivers, etc) but the vast proportion can but don't want to. The government needs to do more than just put spin on the busways and stuff, and actually talk to the public about using PT. Quoting the fact that 1 bus is equal to 40 cars seems to have worn off, everyones heard that and doesn't care anymore.
There is no silver bullet… but there is silver buckshot.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Offline #Metro

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 20298
Re: Courier Mail: Double Deck Tunnels
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2010, 06:29:13 PM »
Oh well, I'm actually surprised!
Putting a bus lane on Riverside Expressway should be a walk in the park for the QLD Gov PR Department.

Things they have dealt with:

Health Crisis
Dr Patel
Health workers not paid crisis
Assets Sale
Traverston Dam & Drinking recycled sewerage
Oil Spill in Brisbane River
Coal tanker on Barrier Reef spilling oil
BrisConnections farce
Petrol subsidy
GoCard faults, errors and delays
Dams running empty
Floods, Cyclones

Bus lanes! No problem...

« Last Edit: April 15, 2010, 06:31:54 PM by tramtrain »
Negative people... have a problem for every solution.
Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members. Not affiliated with, paid by or in conspiracy with MTR/Metro.

Dean Quick

  • Guest
Re: Courier Mail: Double Deck Tunnels
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2010, 09:01:23 PM »
ANOTHER STUPID idea straight from the failed traffic plans of the 60's being banded around by despotic fools who are obviously in the pockets of the road lobby!!!

Offline O_128

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2591
Re: Courier Mail: Double Deck Tunnels
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2010, 06:13:50 AM »
yet for half the cost the doomben line could be extended to Hamilton and duplicated
"Where else but Queensland?"

Offline ButFli

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 757
Re: Courier Mail: Double Deck Tunnels
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2010, 10:02:51 AM »
Do you seriously think extending the Doomben line would have any effect on the traffic congestion on Kingsford Smith Drive?

somebody

  • Guest
Re: Courier Mail: Double Deck Tunnels
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2010, 10:06:47 AM »
Do you seriously think extending the Doomben line would have any effect on the traffic congestion on Kingsford Smith Drive?
I don't.  But a BUZ 300 could make a difference.  Not to mention a better Airtrain service.

Jon Bryant

  • Guest
Re: Courier Mail: Double Deck Tunnels
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2010, 10:36:57 AM »
He solution is all three BUZ, Airtrain and Hamilton Train

Offline #Metro

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 20298
Re: Courier Mail: Double Deck Tunnels
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2010, 05:15:06 PM »
Quote
Do you seriously think extending the Doomben line would have any effect on the traffic congestion on Kingsford Smith Drive?

We need information about where the cars are coming from and where they are going.
None of this was discussed by the newspaper article.

Extension of Doomben may well see it revitalised. But this needs more detailed look...
Light Rail on the Lilyfield line in Sydney and light rail on the St Kilda Line are examples where you can take a dead line and revive it.
The problem I have with the Doomben line is the big petrol farms etc around it make it not so nice to live next to. But if there were demand I don't see why there could not be a trial and test of a pinkenba train for Australia Tradecoast

There is already tracks off the Doomben line running along Kingsford Smith drive. There might even be tracks into the Hamilton Development site. This is a big "value capture" opportunity.

BUZ 300 or a cityglider is in the pipeline I think, but once again, the timeline is somewhere closer to 2026 as discussed in the Mass Transit Report (2007).

Quote
Value capture refers to a type of innovative public financing in which increases in private land values generated by a new public investment are all or in part “captured” through a land related tax to pay for that investment or other public projects.

Value capture refers to the process by which all or a portion of increments in land value attributed to "community interventions" rather than landowner actions are programmed in advance and recouped by the public sector. These "unearned increments" may be captured indirectly through their conversion into public revenues as taxes, fees, exactions or other fiscal means, or directly through on-site improvements to benefit the community at large.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_capture
Negative people... have a problem for every solution.
Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members. Not affiliated with, paid by or in conspiracy with MTR/Metro.

Offline SteelPan

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 742
Re: Courier Mail: Double Deck Tunnels
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2010, 08:13:31 PM »
GREAT Idea - let's go for it! Brisbane will need every new idea both for private road and public transit - including RAIL it can get.  Trust me, in 2yrs time Clem7 will be a parking lot - and yes, that's even if all our realistic public transit dreams come true.  Let's keep "can doing it" because if we don't we'll all suffer.  Soorley first promoted the Clem7 concept and Newman built it - political spoils shared - so let's stay away from politics and keep PROGRESSING! :-t :-t :-t
« Last Edit: April 18, 2010, 08:15:02 PM by SteelPan »
If urban rail was a sports stadium - there'd be a station on every corner!  Keep it LOUD for Pro-Rail!  :pr

Offline O_128

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2591
Re: Courier Mail: Double Deck Tunnels
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2010, 08:44:03 PM »
http://maps.google.com.au/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&ll=-27.435289,153.075546&spn=0.004704,0.01074&t=h&z=17&msid=117602066037837167812.000484806fb45cf40e6ea

Am i the only one who sees massive potential for an upgraded doomben line then extending (red) to the massive block of land for a huge TOD
"Where else but Queensland?"

somebody

  • Guest
Re: Courier Mail: Double Deck Tunnels
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2010, 08:58:35 PM »
I'm afraid I don't see it. The Doomben line is so indirect that bus services are what I would prefer to that part of town.

Jon Bryant

  • Guest
Re: Courier Mail: Double Deck Tunnels
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2010, 09:04:44 PM »
Trust me, in 2yrs time Clem7 will be a parking lot
Clem7 will be car parking lot as would this crazy proposal in 2 years time for no other reason than BECAUSE it was built.  How useless is the construction of a road that CREATES it's own failure.  Can Do should be re-titled Can Do The Wrong Thing.

Jon Bryant

  • Guest
Re: Courier Mail: Double Deck Tunnels
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2010, 09:06:49 PM »
I'm afraid I don't see it. The Doomben line is so indirect that bus services are what I would prefer to that part of town.

Assuming that your trips is CBD bound which many are not.  As stated before we need both bs and rail. It does nor need to be one or the other.

Offline #Metro

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 20298
Re: Courier Mail: Double Deck Tunnels
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2010, 09:34:27 PM »
Quote
Am i the only one who sees massive potential for an upgraded doomben line then extending (red) to the massive block of land for a huge TOD

No you are not the only person who sees potential O_128!

The big thing there is a petrol farm. It smells like petrol and there are trucks etc.
Don't know how it will be moved for a TOD or re-mediated/rehabilitated. The area is a complete urban dead-zone.


I would extend the rail line all the way into the heart of the development. It could go underground in a box tunnel cut-and-cover if they want the surface to build upon so much. If you look carefully there are tracks which continue, break a bit at Remora Road, and then terminate in Hamilton Park.

As for "not being direct enough" I think it should still be looked at. Cleveland line is not direct either, and people still catch it.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2010, 09:38:15 PM by tramtrain »
Negative people... have a problem for every solution.
Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members. Not affiliated with, paid by or in conspiracy with MTR/Metro.

Offline dwb

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1924
Re: Courier Mail: Double Deck Tunnels
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2010, 08:35:13 PM »
I was part of a student group that in 2007 suggested the following idea:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=102642961264311796850.000438d4cbec00c45c3ef&t=h&z=13

and page 68 http://www.scribd.com/doc/3482970/Brisbanes-Eastern-Gateway-Growth-Management-Strategy

 

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 


“You can't understand a city without using its public transportation system.” -- Erol Ozan