New Generation Rollingstock

[ozbob]

I was asked to give a quick comment re NGR to an International News Agency.

My brief comments:

Herewith some comments:  Slightly rushed sorry about to head to Brisbane Airport for Easter in Melbourne.

1. Delays with the introduction of the NGR trains is having an impact on Queensland Rail's ability to deliver reliable services.   Mechanical issues with the existing train fleet, some trains are approaching 40 years of age, are causing cancellations and flow on delays and disruptions.  This happens almost daily.

2. Queensland Rail is forced to run 3 car train sets at peak on some lines when clearly 6 car trains are needed due to inadequate number of trains. This leads to congestion not only on the 3 car services but the following services as well.

3. There are also concerns with how the NGR trains will handle mobility impaired passengers. Assistance for these passengers is presently located at the centre of the rail platforms, as the Guard who can assist is located in the centre of the trains (6 car), or at the rear (3 car).  Three car trains are stopped so that the guard is still at the centre of the platform.  With the NGR trains Guards will be at the rear, this presents problems on the Queensland Rail network as a significant number of platforms have issues with accessibility at the ends.  NGR trains are a fixed 6 car configuration.

4. There is also community concern about the secrecy surrounding the issues with the NGR trains.  These trains have now been in Queensland for around 14 months and none have been in regular revenue service.

O_o

[ozbob]

Not the first international news agency that has been contact. The issues here in Brisbane with NGR and rail generally are going global.

[ozbob]

Next generation of trains > https://t.co/Ph06lnLeQF #qldpol #NGR
What's happening? @jackietrad @TransLinkSEQ @TMRQld @AndrewPowellMP pic.twitter.com/DVYRkp3s6h

— Robert Dow (@Robert_Dow) April 19, 2017

[SteelPan]

I'd like to make a suggestion with QR/Translink at a cross-roads and a clear need to lift standards a bit...... I'll get shot-down for it....but here goes....in addition to retaining Translink branding....

put back onto QR rolling stock the State Coat of Arms or whatever the traditional QR "crown" symbol was......lift the standards.....show people it does matter and when people fail......it's more than just a "service" being cancelled"

[Stillwater]

There is delicious irony in the fact that half the official Queensland Coat of Arms is feral.  The animals depicted are a brolga (native) and the other a red deer (introduced species).  Perhaps that is where we get our redneck tendencies from.

Not sure of the status of the Maltese Cross symbol associated with Queensland, but here is one explanation.
http://blogs.slq.qld.gov.au/jol/2011/12/02/why-is-the-maltese-cross-included-in-queenslands-badge-and-coat-of-arms

But thank God we have got rid of the sizzling 'Beattie Burger'.

[ozbob]

Where are you #NGR? #qldpol pic.twitter.com/6IBuO08kWd

— Robert Dow (@Robert_Dow) April 20, 2017

^

Funny you ask @Robert_Dow @InclusionMoves and other disability advocates are meeting the Deputy Premier tomorrow re #NGR. Watch this space!! https://t.co/h01fabxLmH

— Inclusion Moves (@InclusionMoves) April 20, 2017

[ozbob]

...

But thank God we have got rid of the sizzling 'Beattie Burger'.

My professional background as a Medical Scientist perhaps influenced me a lot when I looked at the ' Beattie Burger ' ..

what I saw was spermatozoa swimming to an ovum ..   

Crazy logo ...   

[SurfRail]

I liked it.

[STB]

A bit of trouble happening with Bombardier, the supplier of the NGR units.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-bombardier-railways-australia-analysi-idUSKBN17F2LO

Bombardier hits cash snag on Australian train order
By Jonathan Barrett and Allison Lampert | SYDNEY/MONTREAL

Bombardier Inc's hopes of receiving initial payments for a A$4.4 billion contract to build 75 electric trains for Australia's Queensland state government have been hit amid accusations of design faults.

The Canadian company had expected to start booking proceeds from that deal late last year to help meet cash-flow targets.

A person familiar with the company's thinking said it had concerns over its rail division's operational cash flow in the first quarter of this year.
Delays in being paid, and the added cost of fixing any manufacturing faults, could make it harder for Bombardier Transportation to reach its 2017 revenue target of around $8.5 billion, up from $8 billion in 2016, said an industry analyst, who didn't want to be named as he is not authorized to talk to the media. Similarly, it aims to push up its EBIT (earnings before interest and tax) margin slightly to about 7.5 percent.

The issues with the Queensland order - ranging from braking problems to driver visibility and disability access - come on top of other hitches that have weighed on Bombardier's rail division. Separately, a Canadian judge is poised to rule on a dispute over a C$770 million contract with Toronto's Metrolinx system.

They also come to light as Bombardier is again discussing a potential merger of its rail unit, the Montreal-based plane and train maker's most reliable cash generator, with Germany's Siemens, people close to the matter said this week.

Siemens' transportation business has also had product flaws in its trams, and there were delays recently in supplying high-speed trains to state-owned German rail operator Deutsche Bahn.

Claas Belling, spokesman for Germany-based Bombardier Transportation, declined to comment on specific, confidential contract terms, but said the Queensland deal is one of several hundred agreements globally. "Some may be performing better than plan, while others may lag," he said in an email to Reuters.

The possible rail merger talks come as Bombardier aggressively cuts costs as part of a 5-year turnaround plan. The company considered bankruptcy in 2015 when it faced a cash crunch while bringing two jets to market, but CEO Alain Bellemare has since led a restructuring, and the company has received cash infusions from the Quebec government and Canada's second-largest pension fund.

ONE-SIDED CONTRACT

It's not clear to what extent Bombardier is responsible for the design flaws on the Queensland contract.

Australia was mentioned as an example in a broad internal review of the rail division from 2015 that raised concerns about a systemic problem: at the time, the company agreed to custom-build trains to the client's request, which is more risky and costly than offering a standard line of equipment, said another person familiar with the matter.

While Bellemare, who has been CEO for a little over two years, has addressed that issue, deals signed before his time, including the 2013 Queensland contract won by a Bombardier-led consortium, are a potential drag on the company.

A person with knowledge of the contract said it was one-sided in favor of the state government. It could change its mind and order planes instead, and Bombardier would probably have to pay the difference, the person quipped.

Downer Group, a Sydney-headquartered engineering firm, told Reuters it decided against bidding for the Queensland order because of the "onerous" contract terms.

SUSPENDED

By early this year, Queensland had received 13 six-car trains, but suspended further deliveries apart from two that were already en route from Bombardier's factory in Savli, India.

The state has not yet paid any money to Bombardier.
The Canadian firm is now trying to have four or five of the trains certified for use in Australia before the end of this year, two people familiar with the issue said.

"There's no funding until they get through testing and are certified," said a political source with knowledge of the contract terms, which are not public. "The issues with the trains include unsatisfactory braking, which are design flaws."

Paul Bini, a spokesman for the bid consortium - which also includes Aberdeen Asset Management, UK developer John Laing and Japanese trading company Itochu Corp - said it wasn't unusual for issues to be identified during testing, especially on large and complex projects.

"All 75 New Generation Rollingstock trains are expected to be delivered and rolled-out on to the South East Queensland rail network by late-2018," he added.

The Queensland government previously cited problems with the trains' braking systems, the design of the driver cabs, which it said had inadequate visibility, and doorway disability access that did not meet Australian standards.

"We are working around the clock to resolve the issues as soon as possible, without compromising safety," Deputy Premier and Transport Minister Jackie Trad told Reuters.

Bini said the trains were being tested to meet safety standards, and the brake issue had been resolved. He added that feedback from rail groups and the disability sector were incorporated into the train's design.

(Reporting by Allison Lampert and Jonathan Barrett, with additional reporting by Andrea Shalal in BERLIN; Editing by Denny Thomas and Ian Geoghegan)

[red dragin]

Where's the little fighting eating popcorn icon when you need him. 

[ozbob]

^^ thanks for picking up that article STB.

I have spoken with Reuters too.  What is interesting in that yarn is that they hope to have  4 or 5 NGR sets running by the end of this year.

That is better than none I feel, but not the best outcome, nearly two years!

" ... have four or five of the trains certified for use in Australia before the end of this year ... "

It is clear that the design was non-standard and this has caused issues at a number of levels.  The design was done at Milton I recall.

It is a sad indictment on our Government's transparency that it takes an international media outlet to tell us more than what we can find out publicly here in Queensland.

[#Metro]

Reuters. Wow, stories they do are syndicated worldwide.

We really do have "worst class" and international worst practice now.

Still curious as to whether three staff per train will eventuate.

[mufreight]

While it does not resolve the guard position problems the disability access problems are a relative easy fix.
For all of the sets still to be delivered a new toilet module can be built to replace the existing module turning the toilet so it faces across the train rather than fore and aft as at present with the entry into the toilet from the centerline of the carriage with the passage way ofset this solves the toilet access problem and the inter carriage access.
The 15 sets already here or in transit could be retrofitted at Marybrough in time for those sets to be available for the games.

[bretto82]

 The ngr sets will never be sent to MARYBOROUGH to get any work done on them by downer edi that's why wulkuraka was built for them it has been said before bombardier own the sets and maintaine them clean them change light bulbs the lot

[ozbob]

Inclusion Moves > http://inclusionmoves.com.au/Home.php



MEDIA RELEASE 21 April 2017

Disability sector representatives meet with Deputy Premier Trad regarding NGR

Geoff Trappett from Inclusion Moves along with other disability advocates met today with Deputy Premier Jackie Trad, Director General Department of Transport and Main Roads Neil Scales and Queensland Rail CEO Nick Easy to discuss disability design issues on Queensland Rails New Generation Rollingstock.

"Finally getting our issues on the table to be heard by the Deputy Premier is a good first step in a long road ahead" says Geoff Trappett. "Our message is clear, the design issues which resulted in the Deputy Premier rightly suspending the trains delivery are ones that should be met with design solutions, not stop gap staffing fixes resulting in people with disability being played as political pawns each time these staffing arrangements need to be renegotiated."

An offer was put forward to tour a completed NGR train to the disability advocates in attendance and this offer was accepted. "People with disability make up 18.5% and the aging population a further 17% of the community so of course we will take them up on their offer to look through the trains and provide input from a valuable community group".

"This is an issue that becomes bigger than NGR. It starts to become one of who will be the government that realises that meaningful consultation and leading from the front even when the issue may not have been of your creation are crucial elements in good governance, social policy and long term infrastructure development" says Geoff Trappett.

Background on design issues:

• The corridor linking carriages purpose-designed with accessible seating and a toilet is too narrow for most manual and motorized wheelchairs causing some PWD to have to leave the train and re-enter through a different door in order to use the bathroom. A time consuming exercise potentially whilst raining all whilst the train stays to a timetable.

• The toilet space does not meet the relevant size standards set out in legislation. Meaning it is simply inaccessible to some PWD who use a wheelchair for mobility and a danger to use for others.

• The guard (who assists a PWD with boarding and exiting the train) station will be at the rear instead of in the middle of the train. This being a change from years of the guard being located in the middle of the train so as the guard position aligns with the accessible boarding area on the existing station platform. Potential safety concerns for a PWD being left behind on a platform due to not being seen from the relocated guard position are real and potentially life threatening on an unmanned station late at night.

END

Contact: Geoff Trappett OAM

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

22nd April 2017

Disability Advocates supported by RBoT for NGR DDA Compliance

Good Morning,

We are pleased that the Deputy Premier Ms. Trad, Mr Scales DGTMR, Mr Easy CEOQR have met with disability advocates re their particular concerns with design issues with the New Generation Rollingstock (NGR) (Inclusion Moves Media Release below for information).

RAIL Back On Track has long raised similar concerns and we support the position of Mr Trappett and his fellow advocates in that proper design solutions are the preferred outcome rather than additional staff per se.  This is a costly non-solution in the end.  It is essential that the NGR trains be fully Disability Discrimination Act (DDA) compliant from day one. These new trains will be in use for probably the next 30 plus years.

We have also found out via Reuters that it appears that we might see some of the NGR trains being ready for use towards the end of this year.

See Bombardier hits cash snag on Australian train order > http://www.reuters.com/article/us-bombardier-railways-australia-analysi-idUSKBN17F2LO

" ... have four or five of the trains certified for use in Australia before the end of this year ... "

It is a little disturbing that it takes an international media outlet to tell us more than what we are told publicly in Queensland by the authorities.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

Reference:

Inclusion Moves > http://inclusionmoves.com.au/Home.php



MEDIA RELEASE 21 April 2017

Disability sector representatives meet with Deputy Premier Trad regarding NGR

Geoff Trappett from Inclusion Moves along with other disability advocates met today with Deputy Premier Jackie Trad, Director General Department of Transport and Main Roads Neil Scales and Queensland Rail CEO Nick Easy to discuss disability design issues on Queensland Rails New Generation Rollingstock.

"Finally getting our issues on the table to be heard by the Deputy Premier is a good first step in a long road ahead" says Geoff Trappett. "Our message is clear, the design issues which resulted in the Deputy Premier rightly suspending the trains delivery are ones that should be met with design solutions, not stop gap staffing fixes resulting in people with disability being played as political pawns each time these staffing arrangements need to be renegotiated."

An offer was put forward to tour a completed NGR train to the disability advocates in attendance and this offer was accepted. "People with disability make up 18.5% and the aging population a further 17% of the community so of course we will take them up on their offer to look through the trains and provide input from a valuable community group".

"This is an issue that becomes bigger than NGR. It starts to become one of who will be the government that realises that meaningful consultation and leading from the front even when the issue may not have been of your creation are crucial elements in good governance, social policy and long term infrastructure development" says Geoff Trappett.

Background on design issues:

• The corridor linking carriages purpose-designed with accessible seating and a toilet is too narrow for most manual and motorized wheelchairs causing some PWD to have to leave the train and re-enter through a different door in order to use the bathroom. A time consuming exercise potentially whilst raining all whilst the train stays to a timetable.

• The toilet space does not meet the relevant size standards set out in legislation. Meaning it is simply inaccessible to some PWD who use a wheelchair for mobility and a danger to use for others.

• The guard (who assists a PWD with boarding and exiting the train) station will be at the rear instead of in the middle of the train. This being a change from years of the guard being located in the middle of the train so as the guard position aligns with the accessible boarding area on the existing station platform. Potential safety concerns for a PWD being left behind on a platform due to not being seen from the relocated guard position are real and potentially life threatening on an unmanned station late at night.

END

Contact: Geoff Trappett OAM

[ozbob]

Latest media:
Disability Advocates supported by RBoT for NGR DDA Compliance
> https://t.co/HHJawMYpH8#qldpol@jackietrad @InclusionMoves pic.twitter.com/UsgAzoZqy2

— Robert Dow (@Robert_Dow) April 21, 2017

[ozbob]

Reuters. Wow, stories they do are syndicated worldwide.

We really do have "worst class" and international worst practice now.

Still curious as to whether three staff per train will eventuate.

You have been answered @Metro.   Design is botched ...

[ozbob]

Thankyou RBoT for your support on these crucial matters for all Queenslanders @Robert_Dow https://t.co/0jmi0ZeFGl

— Inclusion Moves (@InclusionMoves) April 21, 2017

[ozbob]

The NGR website http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/ngr was updated 20 April 2017 last.

" .. 2017 – NGR services are expected to begin on the South East Queensland passenger rail network

Late 2018 – All NGR fleet operational. "

This is inline with what the Reuters article above published. 

[ozbob]

To fix new trains @jackietrad "My aim is that we ensure that there is very limited blowout in terms of the contract cost." @abcnews #qldpol

— Chris O'Brien (@COBrienBris) April 26, 2017

[achiruel]

The NGR website http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/ngr was updated 20 April 2017 last.

" .. 2017 – NGR services are expected to begin on the South East Queensland passenger rail network

Late 2018 – All NGR fleet operational. "

This is inline with what the Reuters article above published.

So I expect we'll see the first NGR revenue services around the 28th of December then? 

"2017" is rather vague when there's two-thirds of the year left!

[ozbob]

^ I don't think they really know ... 

[ozbob]

Interviews on ABC Radio Brisbane Mornings on 26th April 2017 re NGR (mainly NGR, small mention of other rail issues).

From http://www.abc.net.au/radio/brisbane/programs/mornings/mornings/8456236

Minister for Transport Ms Trad, then Mr Geoff Trappett OAM.

Click --> Here!  MP3 17MB

[tazzer9]

I noticed 3 SX set cars in mayne north yard this morning.  I am sure this is the governments back up plan to the failed NGR project. 
(on another note, does anyone know what these 3 sx set cars are for?)

[ozbob]

^ hope so     

Re the interview.  I get the distinct impression there is a lot more than just the DDA issues (although these are very significant) concerning the NGR trains. 

What a mess!

[ozbob]

Game on ..

[ozbob]

The NGR website http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/ngr was updated 20 April 2017 last.

" .. 2017 – NGR services are expected to begin on the South East Queensland passenger rail network

Late 2018 – All NGR fleet operational. "

This is inline with what the Reuters article above published.

So I expect we'll see the first NGR revenue services around the 28th of December then? 

"2017" is rather vague when there's two-thirds of the year left!

It used to read once late 2016, then changed to by June 2017, now hopefully sometime in 2017!

This is a monumental botch with has snared two State Governments and DTMR.  The thing I find very difficult to understand is why DTMR allowed this occur in the first place.  I think a former DGTMR might have a bit to do with it as well.

[ozbob]

I was asked to give a quick comment re NGR to an International News Agency.

My brief comments:

Herewith some comments:  Slightly rushed sorry about to head to Brisbane Airport for Easter in Melbourne.

1. Delays with the introduction of the NGR trains is having an impact on Queensland Rail's ability to deliver reliable services.   Mechanical issues with the existing train fleet, some trains are approaching 40 years of age, are causing cancellations and flow on delays and disruptions.  This happens almost daily.

2. Queensland Rail is forced to run 3 car train sets at peak on some lines when clearly 6 car trains are needed due to inadequate number of trains. This leads to congestion not only on the 3 car services but the following services as well.

3. There are also concerns with how the NGR trains will handle mobility impaired passengers. Assistance for these passengers is presently located at the centre of the rail platforms, as the Guard who can assist is located in the centre of the trains (6 car), or at the rear (3 car).  Three car trains are stopped so that the guard is still at the centre of the platform.  With the NGR trains Guards will be at the rear, this presents problems on the Queensland Rail network as a significant number of platforms have issues with accessibility at the ends.  NGR trains are a fixed 6 car configuration.

4. There is also community concern about the secrecy surrounding the issues with the NGR trains.  These trains have now been in Queensland for around 14 months and none have been in regular revenue service.

O_o

The longer this NGR mess festers the worse it gets for train availability ..

[BrizCommuter]

The NGR website http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/ngr was updated 20 April 2017 last.

" .. 2017 – NGR services are expected to begin on the South East Queensland passenger rail network

Late 2018 – All NGR fleet operational. "

This is inline with what the Reuters article above published.

So I expect we'll see the first NGR revenue services around the 28th of December then? 

"2017" is rather vague when there's two-thirds of the year left!

It used to read once late 2016, then changed to by June 2017, now hopefully sometime in 2017!

This is a monumental botch with has snared two State Governments and DTMR.  The thing I find very difficult to understand is why DTMR allowed this occur in the first place.  I think a former DGTMR might have a bit to do with it as well.

After the launch of January 2014 timetable resulting in overcrowded 3-car units, QR claimed on social media that NGR would be on the network in late 2015.

[ozbob]

I am not too sure that many (except perhaps for ourselves) grasp the seriousness of this situation. Years late now.

Importing of trains has ceased.  Even when they are ' design fault rectified '  there will now be a further lag in time before they are eventually turned out for service.

How much longer can Queensland Rail battle on with the existing train fleet before there are more service cuts?

I personally think the Commonwealth Games is going to be very difficult for the maintenance of even reduced services for the majority of the network, despite denials otherwise.  If they can get the 15 trains into service for the games then might go a bit better. 

The fact that they are looking at at a staffing solution rather than a design solution for DDA compliance also means that for years the NGR trains will generate very high operating costs to boot as well.  This will work against service improvements and may actually contribute to a new Government being forced to franchise/privatise the operations.

[tazzer9]

I am not too sure that many (except perhaps for ourselves) grasp the seriousness of this situation. Years late now.

Importing of trains has ceased.  Even when they are ' design fault rectified '  there will now be a further lag in time before they are eventually turned out for service.

How much longer can Queensland Rail battle on with the existing train fleet before there are more service cuts?

I personally think the Commonwealth Games is going to be very difficult for the maintenance of even reduced services for the majority of the network, despite denials otherwise.  If they can get the 15 trains into service for the games then might go a bit better. 

The fact that they are looking at at a staffing solution rather than a design solution for DDA compliance also means that for years the NGR trains will generate very high operating costs to boot as well.  This will work against service improvements and may actually contribute to a new Government being forced to franchise/privatise the operations.

Maybe we could steal some of Perths B series trains for the commonwealth games.   We did the same for them for the Americas cup.

[red dragin]

BB18 1/4 x2
AC16 x1
C17 x1
DD17 x1 (should be able to be back together)
PB15 (after overhaul)

Plus Downsteam, QPSR, ARHS QLD (I think the C17 is operational), the South African loco is still said to be in Cairns.

There's nine or ten that might be called into service for the games yet

[Stillwater]

^ That's not such a silly idea, although QR would be petrified that a 'puffing billy' might be prone to breakdown on the main line, or starting a fire beside the track!  But QR does press into service some of its retired fleet for events such as the Ekka.  What's sitting around on the back lot to could service the Commonwealth Games?

[#Metro]

I am not too sure that many (except perhaps for ourselves) grasp the seriousness of this situation. Years late now.

Importing of trains has ceased.  Even when they are ' design fault rectified '  there will now be a further lag in time before they are eventually turned out for service.

How much longer can Queensland Rail battle on with the existing train fleet before there are more service cuts?

I personally think the Commonwealth Games is going to be very difficult for the maintenance of even reduced services for the majority of the network, despite denials otherwise.  If they can get the 15 trains into service for the games then might go a bit better. 

The fact that they are looking at at a staffing solution rather than a design solution for DDA compliance also means that for years the NGR trains will generate very high operating costs to boot as well.  This will work against service improvements and may actually contribute to a new Government being forced to franchise/privatise the operations.

Well, Queensland Government seems to be really keen on digging its own political grave.

Still haven't cleaned out management and the board after seven months.

Quite a lot of "mechanical faults" reported as causes of delays now as well.

THREE staff per train - what a joke!

[ozbob]

BB18 1/4 x2
AC16 x1
C17 x1
DD17 x1 (should be able to be back together)
PB15 (after overhaul)

Plus Downsteam, QPSR, ARHS QLD (I think the C17 is operational), the South African loco is still said to be in Cairns.

There's nine or ten that might be called into service for the games yet

Fuking oath!

Stand clear, departing Redbank STEAM

[red dragin]

^ that was a long day but worth it.

[achiruel]

Any SX sets still around? Maybe QR could lease a couple of 3900s from Aurizon. How about a 2000 class railmotor on the Rosewood shuttle 

[tazzer9]

Any SX sets still around? Maybe QR could lease a couple of 3900s from Aurizon. How about a 2000 class railmotor on the Rosewood shuttle 

Half of one is currently in mayne north yard.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Any SX sets still around? Maybe QR could lease a couple of 3900s from Aurizon. How about a 2000 class railmotor on the Rosewood shuttle 

Never going to happen. Some of the 3900's still in service are configured for coal runs, mothballed, sold, scrapped and not allowed to run in Brisbane without modifications.