New Generation Rollingstock

[Gazza]

I dont know how to rephrase my question to get a more specific answer.

[Stillwater]

QUOTE FROM HTG: "QR already has a list of locations for future stabling yards once the existing yards are fully utilised."

Does anyone know the site of those future locations?

[petey3801]

I never realised SMU 200 unreliability was a thing...How long has this been the case for? They aren't what you'd call very old right?

Mostly due to the antiquated computer systems, as I understand it.

[ozbob]

QUOTE FROM HTG: "QR already has a list of locations for future stabling yards once the existing yards are fully utilised."

Does anyone know the site of those future locations?

See > http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=10380.msg181792#msg181792

[BrizCommuter]

Any discussion on peak service improvements?

[HappyTrainGuy]

I dont know how to rephrase my question to get a more specific answer.

Aging electronic computer bits and bobs. They aren't really old when it comes to the carriage bodies but the electronics are sure getting historic.

QUOTE FROM HTG: "QR already has a list of locations for future stabling yards once the existing yards are fully utilised."

Does anyone know the site of those future locations?

Dakabin (where the old alignment is) and Thornside are the two major ones I know of but this is going waaaay back.

Edit: Just saw Mr Bobs earlier reply. From the link.

During this study, 74 potential sites were identified as potential stabling locations against the key assessment criteria of strategic rail planning, social and community, constructability and rail operation. From those sites, 16 sites (including 2 at Elimbah) were shortlisted for further investigation. Remaining sites were not considered feasible and were discarded from further planning.

These sites were Thorneside, Banyo, Dakabin, Nambour, Rosewood, Woombye, Hemmant, Robina North, Bethania, Strathpine, Ormeau, Loganlea, Wulkuraka, Varsity Lakes and two located at Elimbah (Elimbah and Elimbah C).

[ozbob]

[ozbob]

Anyone got any news on the NGR trains?

#askingforafriend

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

29th October 2016

Time to sort public transport for SEQ

Good Morning,

Now that the ' interim rail timetable ' has been operating successfully for the week we believe it is time some compensation for the travelling public be offered.  Many public transport commuters have had constant disruption with out of pocket costs for additional childcare, late job starts , missed appointments, taxis and so forth.

A period of free travel on our public transport network in SEQ is warranted in our opinion, to at last acknowledge the considerable impacts of late and help restore some confidence with public for the network. Please consider this an an urgent priority Minister Hinchliffe.

The Premier has said recently that she hopes there are no more hidden issues with the rail.  Sorry Premier there are.

1. The New Generation Rollingstock (NGR) trains were ordered without guard compartments by the Newman Government.  This means in effect that guards on these new trains when deployed will be at the end of the train which is different from the present central position on existing rollingstock.  The rail network in SEQ is set up for assistance to mobility impaired at the centre areas of the rail platforms.  How will this situation be managed when the NGR trains are rolled out?  Will extra staff have to be deployed?  Will guards have to travel from the rear of the train to the centre to assist passengers?  This is not a simple issue to solve.

2. Apart from train crew problems there are simply not enough trains at present.  The number of 3 car services (with constant overloading issues) has had to be increased on the network during peak.  The original order for NGR trains was to be 100 six car train sets, this was cut back to 75 six car trains under the Newman Government.  Is this really enough trains?  This needs urgent review and consideration be given to exercising an option to increase the order for NGR trains (once these are proven).

It is also our view that the problems with public transport, rail, bus and infrastructure issues are such that a dedicated Minister for Public Transport is needed to focus and retrieve the situation. Ministers with multi-portfolios are not able to remain across all the issues. Politicised and poor public transport policy under a succession of Governments has now finally impacted in the mess we have today.

We and others have highlighted the issues for years, only to be ignored in the main.  It is now time to act, and act decisively.

Thank you.

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

Smoke ...

Some issues with supplier of new trains says @StirlHinchliffe but still expects it all late this year or early next year. @abcnews #qldpol

— Chris O'Brien (@COBrienBris) October 30, 2016

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Transport Minister Stirling Hinchliffe: I'm going nowhere

TRANSPORT Minister Stirling Hinchliffe has declared he'll keep his job to fix the problems at Queensland Rail, even while admitting that new trains ordered from India face unnamed "issues" and delays.

The news of problems with the New Generation Rollingstock (NGR) came as another 74 trips were cancelled and five modified yesterday to ensure there were enough drivers for weekday services from today.

Mr Hinchliffe said he would be going nowhere despite further calls from the Opposition for Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk to "do the right thing" and sack him.

"As always, we can do better, we can do more and I will do more," he told Labor's state conference as he blamed the Newman government's cuts to QR's driver unit for the mess.

"Let me be clear, we inherited this LNP mess, we found this LNP mess and ... I am not going anywhere until it's fixed," he said.

But the stance came as Mr Hinchliffe was unable to guarantee when new NGR trains — five of which have arrived from India — will begin services.

The former LNP Government ordered 75 new trains under a private public partnership from a consortium led by Bombardia.

They were to begin passenger services in the second half of this year but only one is undergoing testing.

Mr Hinchliffe said there were "a number of issues" being worked out with the supplier.

A spokesman for TransLink, which is overseeing the project, could not give a time frame for the trains to go into service.

QR's acting chief executive Neil Scales will today meet QR staff and the unions to discuss enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations and issues with workplace flexibility.

"I want to understand how quickly we can get more drivers into the field," he said.

It comes after the Ms Palaszczuk threw her support behind Mr Hinchliffe as he faces intensified calls to resign over a train timetabling fiasco.

Ms Palaszczuk is instead blaming QR and the previous Liberal National Party government for train driver shortages.

When asked whether Mr Hinchliffe should resign she said he'd advised he was 100 per cent committed to fixing the problem.

"I think everybody is incredibly angry this has happened but now we need to fix it up," she said.

But Opposition leader Tim Nicholls said Ms Palaszczuk must be wondering what to do with her "incompetent" transport minister.

"The real question that commuters have is why are they paying the price because Annastacia Palaszczuk doesn't have the guts to sack an incompetent minister," he said.

"Stirling Hinchliffe should resign."

The situation has already led to QR chief executive Helen Gluer and board chairman Michael Klug quitting while the service continues to operate on an interim timetable.

Calls for Mr Hinchliffe's resignation have intensified after it emerged Queensland-based public transport advocate Paul Pluta sent his office an email flagging trouble ahead with the Moreton Bay rail link as well as a lack of drivers the network was receiving.

In his correspondence, Mr Pluta warned the driver shortage would make headlines. "Your current drivers can't drive the trains, and you need 60 more and you have not begun training," Mr Pluta said.

Mr Hinchliffe said he sought advice from QR following the email. "That advice included reassurances from QR that the train crewing issues were being dealt with," he said on Sunday.

The minister reiterated his position that the advice he received from QR was that the issues would not affect the October timetable.

Mr Hinchliffe would not say how much blame he thought Labor should accept for the debacle.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

31 October 2016

NGR trains Re: Time to sort public transport for SEQ

Good Morning,

So there is now some tacit acknowledgement that are ' number of issues ' with the New Generation Rolling (NGR) trains.

[ Couriermail --> Transport Minister Stirling Hinchliffe: I'm going nowhere ]

Don't forget it was the Newman Government that set up this booby-trapped project, much the same way they booby-trapped Moreton Bay Rail Link.

It is time the Minister for Transport outlined what the problems are with the NGR trains and how the issues, particularly guard placement will be solved.

There are not enough trains already, this is evidenced by the increasing number of 3 car sets (with commensurate overloading) that QR are forced to run at peak times.

We repeat our call for a dedicated Minister for Public Transport. It is our view that the problems with public transport, rail, bus and infrastructure issues are such that a dedicated Minister for Public Transport is needed to focus and retrieve the situation.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[Attached: http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3706.msg182563#msg182563 ]

[ozbob]

Latest media: ' NGR trains & Re: Time to sort public transport for SEQ '
> https://t.co/39AD8nzUq2#qldpol@AnnastaciaMP @TimNichollsMP pic.twitter.com/P7BSxytBHG

— Robert Dow (@Robert_Dow) October 30, 2016

[Stillwater]

ABC Local Radio Sunshine Coast is reporting that Stirling Hinchliffe has acknowledged that the NGR trains have 'unspecified design issues' that are being raised with the manufacturer.

[ozbob]

ABC Local Radio Sunshine Coast is reporting that Stirling Hinchliffe has acknowledged that the NGR trains have 'unspecified design issues' that are being raised with the manufacturer.

See this thread for NGR discussion general >> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3706.msg182590#msg182590

[ozbob]

Understand Mr Hinchliffe and OL Nicholls will be interviewed on 612 ABC Brisbane shortly (Mornings Steve Austin).

[Stillwater]

Brizcommuter nailed it .... the 'perfect storm'

Not enough drivers to drive the existing fleet of trains
Not enough trains
Delays in delivering new train sets
Unspecified problems with the new trains on order
The order is insufficient (7-13 more trains required over and above those on order in the current contract)

[ozbob]

^

BrizCommuter: ' QR's Cancellation Catastrophe - Analysis '
> https://t.co/zVmPKdYSrH#qldpol pic.twitter.com/3x5uRyIp9n

— Robert Dow (@Robert_Dow) October 30, 2016

[mufreight]

Since it is obvious that there is not going to be sufficient train sets even with the delivery of the current order perhaps an order should be placed for another 20 260 series sets with the stipulation that they be built in Queensland.  they could be built at Maryborough where they are currently building more trains for Transperth so the first deliveries could be relative quick and being the same as the existing 260 series could go straight into service.  If ordered now the first sets could be in service before the elections and the boost to employment in Maryborough would fit in with the government's jobs agenda

[Gazza]

Wouldn't they just extend the 700 series order though?

[ozbob]

I just completed an interview on 612 ABC Radio Brisbane where I highlighted the issues big time, including crew and train shortage.

Also the NGR problems particularly the guard issue.

Pointed out that we have been highlighting the issues for years ...

#youarewelcome

[ozbob]

@Robert_Dow speaking on @612brisbane. We need a dedicated minister for public transport. .@AnnastaciaMP #qldpol

— David Marler (@Qldaah) October 30, 2016

[tazzer9]

Since it is obvious that there is not going to be sufficient train sets even with the delivery of the current order perhaps an order should be placed for another 20 260 series sets with the stipulation that they be built in Queensland.  they could be built at Maryborough where they are currently building more trains for Transperth so the first deliveries could be relative quick and being the same as the existing 260 series could go straight into service.  If ordered now the first sets could be in service before the elections and the boost to employment in Maryborough would fit in with the government's jobs agenda

That should be the best short term option.   Only exception would be to build them as the IMU160 version, not the SMU version.   With the new PID's, QR are really trying to make toilet equipped trains known and wanting to get it out that trains are civilised.   IMU's would be alot easier for rostering and from a customer perspective they are better.
Only problem is the b-series isn't meant to restart for another 2 years. (something like that)

We know that IMU160's don't have any major issues that hasn't already been fixed.    No training is needed, and it would help the governments popularity.  (no matter what your own personal opinion is on building stuff in australia or overseas, building in australia seems to get more votes)

If we could order it now and have 20 x 3 car trains delivered by mid 2018 so the factory could easily slide into building the remaining b series for perth, It might end up being very cost effective.

[BrizCommuter]

Since it is obvious that there is not going to be sufficient train sets even with the delivery of the current order perhaps an order should be placed for another 20 260 series sets with the stipulation that they be built in Queensland.  they could be built at Maryborough where they are currently building more trains for Transperth so the first deliveries could be relative quick and being the same as the existing 260 series could go straight into service.  If ordered now the first sets could be in service before the elections and the boost to employment in Maryborough would fit in with the government's jobs agenda

Very much doubt it's that simple. It is now about 5 years too late to build any extra 160/260 trains.

[petey3801]

You do all realise that it's not as simple as saying 'Build me more of these (160s) trains' and it just happens, yeah? There are quite long lead times for things like that. Order them today, you would be lucky to have the first one in service by this time in 2018.
The way forward for the train numbers is to simply extend the current NGR contract once they have had the issues ironed out (oh, and anyone saying they are crap and should be cancelled because they have some issues - Welcome to any new train design. All new designs have issues, that is what the rigorous testing regime is for! Finding those issues and sorting them out!

[ozbob]

^ yep.

This is our position:

2. Apart from train crew problems there are simply not enough trains at present.  The number of 3 car services (with constant overloading issues) has had to be increased on the network during peak.  The original order for NGR trains was to be 100 six car train sets, this was cut back to 75 six car trains under the Newman Government.  Is this really enough trains?  This needs urgent review and consideration be given to exercising an option to increase the order for NGR trains (once these are proven).

[Stillwater]

Now line of sight problems:

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/queensland-rail-drivers-cant-see-out-of-new-trains-says-transport-minister-stirling-hinchliffe/news-story/489c969316947f68b497c8e68f728fc4

And the guards positioning being addressed.  Why now, when they have known for so long?

[ozbob]

At my 'office' about to do interviews with 7 News and ABC TV News
Timely article
Thanks

[tazzer9]

Why is the guard position such a big deal.   Sydney did it and it has worked fine for them.   Just keep guards at the centre on all the current trains and have them at the back on the NGR's.  not that hard. 

[petey3801]

^^ That is what will be happening, however the Waratahs were delivered with everything ready for the guard to work from the rear, whereas the NGRs have not been (for the first few trains), therefore some issues need to be addressed to get them in service while they get retrofitted.

[ozbob]

Someone needs to come out an explain how they are going to manage assisted boarding with guards at the rear.

There is concern among certain groups and I can well understand that. 

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Queensland Rail: Drivers can't see out of new trains, says Transport Minister Stirling Hinchliffe

DRIVERS of new trains delivered from India can't properly see out to the platforms they are stopping at, Transport Minister Stirling Hinchliffe has confirmed.

Mr Hinchliffe said a number of issues were being ironed out with the New Generation Rollingstock (NGR) that have been delivered by a consortium led by Bombardia.

"There have been some issues in relation to line of sight for drivers to be able to see the points on platforms where they need to stop," he said as he arrived at a Cabinet meeting today.

"There are issues that are being corrected in relation to that.

"That's one example of a number that there are in relation to making sure that the New Generation Rollingstock are fit for purpose."

He said there was concern the drivers couldn't see the markers on platforms that demonstrate where they should stop for passengers to be able to board and disembark.

He said QR needed to make sure all drivers, regardless of their height, could properly see them.
Andrew Powell refuses to comment on Newman Government Queensland Rail cuts

Another issue being resolved was "the comfort and settings for the train crew", he said, without elaborating.

The NGR are also being modified so that guards can ride on them.

He said the Newman Government, which signed the contract for the new trains, erred in ordering trains without guard space.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Queensland Rail train drivers cannot see stopping points in new trains

[ozbob]

Driver sight lines identified as 'supply issue' with Queensland's newest trains delivered from India https://t.co/4pLL11qMcd #qldpol pic.twitter.com/GlMXiTS13U

— ABC News Brisbane (@ABCNewsBrisbane) October 31, 2016

[mufreight]

In his last press release Minister Hinchcliff stated that the NGR sets were being modified to make provision for the guards, as presently configured the guard would ride in the trailing cab so Minister Hinchcliff's comment raises the question if these trains are to be modified to provide for the guards what is this modification and does it mean that they will be modified for the guard to travel in the middle of the train as is the case with the existing trainsets.
The question arises is were these trains designed to be driver only operation with no provision for guards, if so another LNP blunder that the present government did not pick up on until this time. 
So Minister Hinchliff what are these modifications and where on the train will the guard by positioned.

[ozbob]

Guards will be in the rear cab of the NGR trains.

[ozbob]

OL Nicholls has been reported as saying they ordered the NGR without provision for guards because they wanted the guards to travel up and down the trains ..

bullsh%t Tim !

[ozbob]

#qldpol @Robert_Dow speaks to 612 ABC about the problems on QR network: https://t.co/Rxv4iPNYNd via @YouTube

— David Marler (@Qldaah) October 31, 2016

[ozbob]

http://www.timnicholls.com.au/australias-worst-transport-minister-cant-guarantee-end-train-crisis/

Australia's worst Transport Minister can't guarantee end to train crisis

Opposition Media Releases

Tim Nicholls MP - Member for Clayfield - Leader of the Opposition and Shadow Minister for Arts and Major Events   

    Stirling Hinchliffe fails to say how much longer SEQ commuters will have to put up with Queensland Rail timetable debacle
    Queenslanders paying the price for Hinchliffe's incompetency – with QR operating at 30 per cent overtime to cover interim shifts
    Labor desperate to use any red herring they can find to avoid taking responsibility for Queensland's biggest train stuff-up

Australia's worst Transport Minister Stirling Hinchliffe continues to jump from train wreck to train wreck after today failing to say how much longer commuters in the south-east would have to wait before they get a finalised Queensland Rail timetable.

Opposition Leader Tim Nicholls said that during an extraordinary interview on 612 ABC Brisbane this morning, Mr Hinchliffe couldn't guarantee Labor's train timetable debacle wouldn't stretch for another two years.

"How many more disasters does Stirling Hinchliffe have to oversee before Annastacia Palaszczuk does the right thing and sacks him?" Mr Nicholls said.

"Just when we thought things couldn't get any worse, Mr Hinchliffe goes on radio today and can't say whether this debacle will be fixed within one month, six months or even two years.

"Queenslanders are paying the price for Mr Hinchliffe's incompetency – with the Minister admitting Queensland Rail is operating at 30 per cent overtime to cover interim shifts.

"This is the biggest debacle in Queensland Rail's 151-year history and there's no end in sight."

Mr Nicholls said Stirling Hinchliffe had almost two years to identify issues within his portfolio and was simply grasping at red herrings to distract from his own incompetency.

"When the LNP ordered new fit-for-purpose rollingstock, it was overseen by the existing Director-General of the Premier and Cabinet Dave Stewart, who coordinated the entire project," Mr Nicholls said.

"In February this year, Mr Hinchliffe issued a media release and even stood up in Parliament to declare what a wonderful job he was doing delivering the new generation rollingstock.

"Now he says the drivers can't fit inside the trains – what happened between now and then and why didn't he do something about it sooner?

"Stirling Hinchliffe simply isn't up to the job – he must stand down and make way for someone who is."

[ozbob]

7 News --> New Qld trains have 'line of sight' issues

Queensland Rail says it's in the process of fixing "line of sight issues" with new trains that would leave some drivers unable to see stopping points on platforms.

Transport Minister Stirling Hinchliffe on Monday confirmed the line of sight problem is among a number of "teething issues" in the next generation rolling stock.

"There was a concern that drivers could not see the stopping points," he said, adding that some drivers would have difficulty seeing the signals depending on their height.

He says the problems are part of the finer detail and that ultimately, safety comes first in all aspects.

There are currently five of the new trains in Australia going through testing and commissioning phases.

Mr Hinchliffe said the former Liberal National Party (LNP) government had "failed Queenslanders" by designing the trains so they couldn't operate with guards.

The minister has also again resisted calls for him to resign over the ongoing timetabling saga within Queensland Rail (QR), which came to a head when services were cancelled this month due to driver shortages.

QR is operating on an interim timetable as it works though staffing issues and Mr Hinchliffe said on Monday he's "100 per cent" focused on finding a solution.

He says in the meantime QR is operating at an overtime level of 30 per cent.

"Overtime has been a part of the practices ... for many years, but overtime is a significant part of the way a whole range of businesses operate and sustain the staffing requirements they need," Mr Hinchliffe said.

"I don't think it's optimal to have levels like that."

LNP leader Tim Nicholls repeated his concerns QR's policy of hiring internally, saying it was due to a union deal.

He said experienced drivers at Aurizon, who had worked for QR in the past, could help solve the issues.

"This isn't a Minister who is fixing a problem, this is a Minister who is presiding over a problem," Mr Nicholls told ABC radio.

"He is cooking up the witch's cauldron of problems."