New Generation Rollingstock

[ozbob]

.. .The new commuter trains are being designed and engineered in Australia and will be manufactured at Bombardier's facility in Savli, India. The vehicle design is based on the Adelaide EMU train and the award-winning BOMBARDIER VLocity design, incorporating reliable and service proven technologies such as the BOMBARDIER FLEXX bogies and the BOMBARDIER MITRAC propulsion system. The new commuter trains will provide improved capacity, security and passenger flow and will feature the BOMBARDIER ORBIFLO advanced condition monitoring system to enhance vehicle reliability ...

> http://www.bombardier.com/en/media/newsList/details.bombardier-transportation20140129bombardierconsortiumwinsmultibi.bombardiercom.html

[ozbob]

Bombardier's new trains for Australia's Queensland to be made in India

Slide show > http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/slideshows/nation-world/bombardiers-new-trains-for-australias-queensland-to-be-made-in-india/bombardiers-new-trains-for-australia/slideshow/47810644.cms

Unit has the number: 701

[ozbob]

QTECTIC --> http://www.qtectic.com/

The trains are being designed to operate for both suburban and interurban service.

Key features of the trains include:

    6 car permanently coupled 25kV EMU
    140 km/h top speed
    Narrow Gauge Bogie
    9 car convertible
    The coupled trains will allow access between all six carriages, enabling passengers to travel through from one end of the train to the other
    All NGR trains will be equipped with toilet facilities and WiFi.

The NGR trains will be maintained in a new purpose-built Maintenance Centre, currently under construction at Wulkuraka, near Ipswich Queensland.

[ozbob]

The coupled trains will allow access between all six carriages, enabling passengers to travel through from one end of the train to the other

Guard at the rear ...

Which will present some challenges ...

[verbatim9]

Like European Trains can walk the interior of the whole train

[ozbob]

Where are the NGRs?
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2016/01/where-are-next-generation-rolling-stock.html

First one is on the way I understand ..

[Derwan]

The original QR plan from 2009 - before MBRL was funded - was to have 38 "3-car sets" delivered between July 2012 and October 2013 - followed by another 73 "3-car sets" up until 2016.  Then from 2016 to 2020 there would be another 87 sets to replace the EMUs.

Obviously now we're halving the numbers and calling them 6-car sets, but when you do the maths, the original plan was to order 198 3-car sets, which equates to 99 6-car sets.  We're currently awaiting the 1st of only 75 6-car sets about 4 years behind schedule - plus we will have an additional line to cater for.

We're so far behind that I understand that we'll be using the NGR to replace EMUs immediately.  In other words, there will initially be little or no net gain.

While I think it's great that things are moving forward, I think it's also important to note that we are roughly 4 years behind the original plan and will be getting 24 6-car sets fewer than what was required even before MBRL.

[petey3801]

We're always behind the 8-ball up here it seems!!

Regarding the NGR replacing the EMUs, I believe the current plan is to bulk up the current fleet to a point where there are no 3-car trains running in peak, thence start retiring the EMUs after that. There is also an option for QR/TMR to order another 24 NGR units, taking the total to 99. Whether that happens or not is anyones guess at this stage!

[verbatim9]

I can see why there was a call for 7 carriages as the platforms across the network can cater up to 7 from observation. But I guess we will be heading to 9 car sets in the future and improvements to lines that cater for them!?

Sent from my SM-G360G using Tapatalk

[SurfRail]

7 car trains with 20-21m long carriages may be an option in the long run as they will be roughly the same length as a current train but will articulate along curved platforms better, which means having 3 or more doors per side won't result in gaps that are quite as large at places like Gaythorne or Park Road.

[Arnz]

If anyone believed that the NGR would be in service by Late 2015/Early 2016 would have to be kidding themselves, that was the intended date for delivery in Australia for testing purposes, although delivery into Australia is late by 1 month according to sources.

Plus, there is also the acceptance testing & requirements the new units, which also takes a few months.  So a late 2015/early 2016 date for service is unrealistic.

[HappyTrainGuy]

ARNZ IIRC that was the initial date but the tender process was extended due to a whole bunch of other things with the whole NGR contract.

And 7 car trains are never going to be seen anywhere on the network. Its just pollies trying out some of their gymicks that the general public have no idea what that actually involves allowing. It's always been 6 car and 9 car sets. 9 car sets will be used in favor of frequency increases on long distance lines and pairings.

[ozbob]

ARNZ IIRC that was the initial date but the tender process was extended due to a whole bunch of other things with the whole NGR contract.

And 7 car trains are never going to be seen anywhere on the network. Its just pollies trying out some of their gymicks that the general public have no idea what that actually involves allowing. It's always been 6 car and 9 car sets. 9 car sets will be used in favor of frequency increases on long distance lines and pairings.

too right ...

[BrizCommuter]

If anyone believed that the NGR would be in service by Late 2015/Early 2016 would have to be kidding themselves, that was the intended date for delivery in Australia for testing purposes, although delivery into Australia is late by 1 month according to sources.

Plus, there is also the acceptance testing & requirements the new units, which also takes a few months.  So a late 2015/early 2016 date for service is unrealistic.

QR were quoted in January 2014 as saying the NGR would be introduced around the network in late 2015. This claim was obviously a big pile of cow dung!

[ozbob]

Sadly, polyticks gets in the way.

I do not blame QR.  I blame incompetent politics, particularly a bloke who was Newman's mate, who did not last that long in the end. Even Newman woke up he was not a good choice and sacked him pronto.

Ease off.  Trains are a' coming.  Patience please.

[BrizCommuter]

Sadly, polyticks gets in the way.

I do not blame QR.  I blame incompetent politics, particularly a bloke who was Newman's mate, who did not last that long in the end. Even Newman woke up he was not a good choice and sacked him pronto.

Ease off.  Trains are a' coming.  Patience please.

The patience of some Ferny Grove and Cleveland Line commuters ran out in January 2014!

[bretto82]

We need to remember this is a tmr project qr get the trains when they are given them not much more qr can do

[Arnz]

If anyone believed that the NGR would be in service by Late 2015/Early 2016 would have to be kidding themselves, that was the intended date for delivery in Australia for testing purposes, although delivery into Australia is late by 1 month according to sources.

Plus, there is also the acceptance testing & requirements the new units, which also takes a few months.  So a late 2015/early 2016 date for service is unrealistic.

QR were quoted in January 2014 as saying the NGR would be introduced around the network in late 2015. This claim was obviously a big pile of cow dung!

Looking at the general public releases it was said it would be delivered into Australia by late 2015/early 2016, and not actually in service when taking acceptance testing into consideration. 

If said source was through spokesperson/politician saying it would be on the network by late 2015 either publicly or privately, it suggests that person/source would be wrong and/or wasn't privy to other information that either staff or users through many Transport forums had obtained through their own higher up sources linked to the associated companies.

[ozbob]

The real issue with the NGR trains is the guard positioning. 

My own preference is guards at the rear for all trains, however we know the present set up is not set for that at all.

[Derwan]

The real issue with the NGR trains is the guard positioning. 

My own preference is guards at the rear for all trains, however we know the present set up is not set for that at all.

I agree.  It would be logical to move guards to the rear on all trains, but there are a multitude of issues that need to be addressed - some easy, some hard:

• Positioning of wheelchair waiting area
• Potential issues with space and shelter at the "new" wheelchair waiting area
• Relocating the ramp cabinets that were only installed the last few years
• Addressing curved platforms where the guard won't be able to see the whole platform
• What to do with those clever (cheap) upgrades where they simply raised part of the platform
• Moving stop marks for 3-car trains

Given that we're only a few months away from the first NGR revenue service, it seems strange that the modifications haven't started at stations yet.  If it was done properly, most stations would be done by now and there would be a communication process and a set date for the guard position change.  This could've be done before the NGR start running to avoid additional confusion with the introduction of the new trains.  Instead I fear that we'll have major mayhem with disabled people having to quickly scoot down to the end of the platform if they see an NGR train approaching.

[ozbob]

It is a worry ...

[Arnz]

I'm thinking the Sunshine Coast Line may be a good trial for the initial NGR runs before being placed into random allocation by the yardmaster at Mayne, considering some of the Caboolture based guards and assumably the whole of the Nambour based guards group are used to being at the back of the train for the ICE operated Gympie North services and/or the soon to be removed ICE operated counter-peak Caboolture-Nambour-Caboolture shuttles.

May able to get feedback from the selected Caboolture and/or Nambour based guards on being at the back of the NGR as opposed to the ICE.

[ozbob]

Yo. It is my understanding that NGR will be on the Gold Coast / North Coast for the initial shake down stuff. And probably for a while longer ...

[BrizCommuter]

Predictions...
They'll arrive late.
Testing will overrun.
They won't fit through tunnels.
They'll keep breaking down due to poor quality construction.
Introduction will be delayed due to union issues with guard position/having to raise platforms at the rear of the train at multiple stations.
They'll end up in service ridiculously delayed and after the EMUs have fallen to pieces.

[ozbob]

It must very frustrating for QR I reckon.  However, lets look on the bright side. At least the EMUs will be around for a while longer hey?

EMUs would have to be one of the best trains ever built in Oz IMHO.

[dancingmongoose]

I agree.  It would be logical to move guards to the rear on all trains, but there are a multitude of issues that need to be addressed - some easy, some hard:

• Positioning of wheelchair waiting area
• Potential issues with space and shelter at the "new" wheelchair waiting area
• Relocating the ramp cabinets that were only installed the last few years
• Addressing curved platforms where the guard won't be able to see the whole platform
• What to do with those clever (cheap) upgrades where they simply raised part of the platform
• Moving stop marks for 3-car trains

Don't forget: Assisted disabled access on 3 car platforms. Will be entertaining to see.

[SurfRail]

^ How many are left?

Rosewood line excluded the only platforms that can't take a 6 car train are a very dmall number north of Caboolture.  Rosewood only needs a 3 car set and for the Sunshine Coast the stopping marks would just need to be moved so the rear cab is on the platform at those few stops.

The bigger issue is stations like Roma St or the Valley where the platform is terraced or humped and so isn't high level at both ends.

[petey3801]

Wheelchair access to trains is not moving from the middle of the train, so the humps can stay where they are. Will likely be a mixture of guards and station staff (where available) facilitating the boarding of wheelchair pax on the train.

Less than 6-car platforms shouldn't be a problem, I believe the NGR trains will have remote door locking capabilities (ie: Ability to isolate/lock doors from the cab).

Briz needs to take a chill pill, the trains are 1-2months late, nothing more! It may have been originally said that they would be in service by end of 2015/early 2016, but that was at the very early stages of the planning. For quite a while now, they have been saying the NGR will be arriving around late 2015/early 2016, which is completely correct. The first will be arriving in the next few weeks. That doesn't mean they'll be put in to service at that time. In fact, I have just found a Bombardier project update on Google dated 26 June, 2014, stating exactly this:

Arrival of first NGR train into Brisbane Q4 2015/ early 2016 to start testing and commissioning
•Completion of maintenance centre in mid-2016
•First NGR Train to enter service in mid-2016

Plus, a TMR factsheet from Jan 2014:

The first trains will be in service by mid-2016, with all 75 trains delivered and in service by December 2018

There is plenty of work going on behind the scenes in preparation for the NGR stock, including sight lines etc for guards at the rear of the train on all lines.

They'll arrive late.

First is already on the way. Yes, 1-2months late, big deal.

Testing will overrun.

Unlikely, however that is why the introduction in to service is 'Mid 2016', instead of a date. Likely around August (in fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see the first ones used on the Ekka shuttles, much like the 160/260s were, come to think about it).

They'll keep breaking down due to poor quality construction.

Got anything to back this up, or is this just the usual stereotyping rubbish? Were you saying the same thing about the NSW Waratah project? Do you realise that now, these trains make up the vast majority of services on 2 out of the 3 sectors (the third one being the Eastern Suburbs and Illawarra line, which is kept separate from all others and uses purely Tangara stock), and they are very well liked by passengers and traincrew alike, as well as being very reliable. All new trains will have teething problems, whether they are built overseas or local.

Introduction will be delayed due to union issues with guard position/having to raise platforms at the rear of the train at multiple stations.

Umm, in case you missed it, now that Newman has been given the boot, unions have actually been allowed to help QR with the introduction of the trains, including the current behind the scenes work that is being done.

Remember people, just because there isn't a media release every time someone walks on to a platform to check something related to the introduction of the NGR, doesn't mean nothing is happening.

Yo. It is my understanding that NGR will be on the Gold Coast / North Coast for the initial shake down stuff. And probably for a while longer ...

My guess is they will start revenue service on the Ipswich - Nambour runs, cascading older IMUs (100/120/160s) to the Gold Coast line, to start with. Reason why I think this is simply due to the fact the maintenance centre is at Wulkurara, so if something happens to the NGR in the introduction period, it would be easier to get it home when it's on the sector. At a guess, each new unit will start service this way before being moved on later to other lines.
I can see something like this happening:
First NGR on IPS-NBR runs for the first little while.
Second NGR introduced in to service IPS-NBR, first one moves elsewhere.
Third one introduced IPS-NBR to run with the second one for a while.
Fourth one introduced takes the place of the second one, so it can be moved elsewhere.
Fifth one introduced makes three running IPS-NBR.
Sixth one replaces third one so it can run elsewhere, and so on. May or may not be how it happens, but wouldn't surprise me if it is the way it goes.

Addressing curved platforms where the guard won't be able to see the whole platform

Already been addressed with external CCTV cameras on the trains.

[SurfRail]

There are really only 4 things that concern me in any way with the new sets:

1. Disability access.  At unmanned stations without level boarding (quite a large chunk of the network) this is going to lead to some kind of compromised position which could potentially affect journey times, or provide a justification to maintain fat in the timetable.

2. Not enough ordered (although this can be remedied).

3. Not enough toilets for what are meant to be interurban trains, albeit mostly they will run on suburban routes.

4. Maintaining a 2-door train when suburban trains really should have at least 3 door positions per carriage face, or even 4.

No. 2 can be fixed at least, and no. 1 may not prove to be as big an issue as I am assuming (which is worst case).  No. 3 is annoying but not fatal given the absolute longest routes they would operate on would be Sunshine Coast trains, which aren't exactly 4 hour trips.  No. 4 is again not fatal but I would like to see this addressed in the replacement for the rest of the existing fleet.  (There could potentially be compatibility issues if we ever put PSDs anywhere.)

The delivery timeframe doesn't bother me - quite apart from the current timeframes being telegraphed 2 years ago, most government projects end up running late by some margin - not unique to Queensland, or to Australia.

[ozbob]

What you suggest Petey re running on Ipswich - Nambour makes sense, however well placed sources did suggest that the Goldie would be a likely line for NGR initially as well.

[petey3801]

What you suggest Petey re running on Ipswich - Nambour makes sense, however well placed sources did suggest that the Goldie would be a likely line for NGR initially as well.

Yes, quite likely too! It may happen that two or three sets enter service around the same time to start with, meaning one on the Sunny Coast, one on the Goldy and increasing from there?

[STB]

Predictions...
They'll arrive late.
Testing will overrun.
They won't fit through tunnels.
They'll keep breaking down due to poor quality construction.
Introduction will be delayed due to union issues with guard position/having to raise platforms at the rear of the train at multiple stations.
They'll end up in service ridiculously delayed and after the EMUs have fallen to pieces.

Whinge, whinge, bloody whinge!  Such a negative nancy! 

You got smacked down with facts after you posted your (uninformed) blog rant, and now you've moved your negativity to other areas.  I agree with Petey, you need to take a chill pill!

I'd strongly remind you to read Petey's post, it pretty much nails it.  There will be teething problems, every project has them!  They are only 1 to 2 months late tops from the predicted arrival date, this isn't unusual in any project - and as with engineering projects as this is, they are complex, hence why certain dates are broad and allowances are made if something goes wrong.  It doesn't mean they've screwed up, it's just the realities of complicated engineering projects, of which new trains are included!

If you feel that you could do a better job, why don't you apply for the relevant position and do it yourself!  Otherwise, unless something drastic happens, or you get informed from those in the know who are experienced with engineering jobs of this nature that they will be screwing up, you are not in a position to criticise.

[kram0]

This is all that BrizCommuter seems to do is complain and complain some more. You just have to read there blog and they never show any comments that disagree with there's. We might not have the best transport network in the world, but having travelled to many cities around the world, I can assure you it's not that bad.

[SurfRail]

No need to gang up on people thanks.

Briz is unquestionably correct in not accepting the status quo, whether people agree with his position or not.

[BrizCommuter]

No need to gang up on people thanks.

Briz is unquestionably correct in not accepting the status quo, whether people agree with his position or not.

Thanks. BrizCommuter's blog is meant to be provocative, unaccepting of mediocrity, and written in a "tabloid" style.
In other parts of the world (London being a great example), the press are completely on top of similar issues. But here, the press don't have a clue and the likes of the government, QR, TransLink, and BCC/BT get away with it. Thus someone else has to do it!

The chronic and long running issue with lack of trains on the QR network is a massive disgrace, as is lack of transparency, and poor customer information. Thus this blog post is quite valid.

Anyway, for those who do not like the blog, don't read it. It is not like it is profit making! By the way, there is a positive article in the works - shocker!

[James]

Now this is purely a thought bubble, but is there a need for a guard on the new trains? Perhaps we could have a "guard" who 'lives' in a small spot in the 3rd/4th carriage (one seat removed to house his stuff, one seat for him), with the guard taking on SNO activities while the train is in motion.

I know this causes issues with training (people rise up the hierarchy from other personnel to guards to drivers), but possibly a longer term solution? Such a change might also help drive down fare evasion.

Just my 2 cents - I can already see issues with stations such as Goodna when it comes to wheelchair access being in the last carriage. Yet another reason why QR really needs to get a move on with DDA, leading into DOO.

[petey3801]

There is always the colloquial name that some have for the NGR... "No Guards Required" Hahaha.

[verbatim9]

There is always the colloquial name that some have for the NGR... "No Guards Required" Hahaha.

It will go down that track for sure

[Fares_Fair]

My 2c worth..

The Woombye (just south Nambour) Stabling Facility currently about to start construction is designed specifically to house the NGR trains.

[verbatim9]

The jigsaw puzzle is coming together.