New Generation Rollingstock

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> NGR trains to be built with flaw in India, fixed in Queensland


An NGR unit on the first day of service

TRAINS will continue to be built in India with a major design flaw that will later force them to be ripped apart and fixed in Queensland at a cost to taxpayers of $100 million.

The Sunday Mail can reveal 37 trains that are yet to enter production under the State Government's $4.4 billion New Generation Rollingstock project will still be built with problem toilet cubicles.

In what is mounting as a farcical situation for the heavily delayed train building contract with Canadian manufacturer Bombardier, southeast Queensland public transport company TransLink has confirmed all 75 trains under the contract will be built in India and shipped to the state with the identified design flaw.

The faulty trains will then be split into individual cars and driven by truck to Maryborough, where the toilets will be modified to meet disability access standards.

It comes after a $100 million deal with local manufacturer Downer EDI to fix the trains was announced by the Labor Government two weeks before the 2017 state election.

The money, which included an extra $50 million to fit CCTV screens in the trains for guards, would come from a project contingency fund.

The patch-up funding was trumpeted as a boon for local jobs in the must-win seat of Maryborough, which Labor MP Bruce Saunders was battling to retain, but it was never

revealed until now that faulty trains would continue to be built under the plan.

Transport Minister Mark Bailey's office yesterday defended the decision to keep building the trains under the original flawed design, arguing it would work out cheaper.

"It is appropriate to continue building the remaining NGR trains under the existing contract arrangements and then modify them in Queensland, as it more cost-effective and efficient," a spokesman for Mr Bailey said.

"It is also vital for the construction of the NGR trains to continue to ensure the ongoing new supply of trains to SEQ customers and to replace an aging Queensland Rail fleet, while the retrofit is carried out.

"We make no apologies for bringing this work back to Queenslanders and to Maryborough – a city with a proud rail history."

The Sunday Mail has previously revealed that the Government would face million-dollar liquidated damages costs if it were held to blame for holding-up production.

While the train design was approved by the previous LNP administration, the disability sector first alerted the Labor Government to the problems in January 2016.

Disability advocate Geoff Trappett said that was when the sector saw a mock-up of the trains and the Government was warned the toilets were non-compliant, but it pushed ahead with work.

"People with a disability are disappointed non-compliant trains continue to be built," he said.

"The disability sector is fully in support of an inquiry into how a tender can go so wrong."

Opposition transport spokesman Steve Minnikin criticised the Government for not acting earlier.

"The Government has now been in charge of this contract for three years," he said.

"They have been warned over and over again about the design issues and have done nothing until the 11th hour.

"Why on Earth didn't Labor change the design in the factory the trains are built in?"

"Let's get this right from the get go instead of fiddling around and making modifications on the fly."

Bombardier refused to comment.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/959819971437056000

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

4th February 2018

How much will the NGR project really cost?

Good Morning,

More revelations with the Not Going Right (NGR) trains.

Couriermail --> NGR trains to be built with flaw in India, fixed in Queensland

Slowly but surely details of the magnitude of the botch surface.  There really is a need for a Commission of Inquiry into this failure. As both sides of politics have varying degrees of culpability, it is doubtful they will do the right thing.

So, when the AHRC determination is made, we will again be requesting the Queensland Auditor General for an audit into this project.  The scale of blunder and failure is unprecedented!

The staffing solution as presently proposed to operate the NGR trains will cost near on a $1 Billion dollars over 30 years.  Hardly sustainable is it?  This is additional to the hundreds of millions of dollars to fix the non compliance of the trains, which continues to perpetuate as the ' State of Queensland ' continues to import non compliant trains.

Mega-botch!

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

[ Attached: https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3706.msg203823#msg203823 ]

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/959824072778510336

[#Metro]

In what is mounting as a farcical situation for the heavily delayed train building contract with Canadian manufacturer Bombardier, southeast Queensland public transport company TransLink has confirmed all 75 trains under the contract will be built in India and shipped to the state with the identified design

NGR trains to be built with flaw in India
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/queensland-government/ngr-trains-to-be-built-with-flaw-in-india-fixed-in-queensland/news-story/d7dd981a0ef69c99e29ee705e695507b

Exactly what we suspected - they are going to continue to produce DDA-noncompliant trains, and then import them to fix them 'later'.

AHRC should only exempt:

- Trains that were already in Australia on 01 January 2018
- For a limited period to cover the games

And not more. No trains should be imported with DDA flaws.

[ozbob]

^ that is what we suggested in our submission to the AHRC essentially.

Duplicitous deception deserves definite deadlines!

[Stillwater]

This confirms that Bombardier is building every unit exactly as ordered to the design that was approved by the state government.  The AHRC needs to be specific in its ruling, when it is brought down.  The exemption being sought by the Queensland Government should apply only to those NGR trains currently in Australia and passed fit for service mechanically (and for the duration of the Games), not unconditionally to the entire order of 75 trains.

No doubt, Queensland will be pushing for the latter, and will take its own sweet time to do the conversions (years).  We were promised 75 new trains with compliant toilets, but the Queensland plan is for 35 trains (only) with compliant toilets. Too often the travelling public gets half of what was promised in this state.  Those lonely NGR trains at Redbank will be joined by a few more of their kind.

The incentive must be for the planned conversions to occur quickly, but not to do a half-arsed job.  The entire fleet of 75 NGR trains should have compliant toilets.

[ozbob]

The Sunday Mail has given it the ' treatment ' in the hard copy ... 

Sunday Mail 4th February 2018 page 7

NAAN THE WISER

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/959896262735572992

[#Metro]

Wow, racist article that IMHO.

[ozbob]

Fixing the NGR train with DUCT TAPE! Buses replacing trains. John Coyle video

NGR ~ 5 minutes in. Must be another of those pesky ' juvenile failures ' ...

[ozbob]

Wow, racist article that IMHO.

Yep. The Indian connection is overdone and not appropriate.  It was the State of Queensland that botched the design. 
Matters little where the trains are/were built the design was rooted!

Present lead item on http://www.couriermail.com.au/

[InclusionMoves]

Agree #Metro

Disappointing it keeps coming back to this angle. Designed in Qld by Qlders. Am all for Qld jobs. Just government isn't being transparent enough with the financials and structure of the contract as to why they seemingly NEED to be completed and shipped to be torn apart again. Is it a contractual issue or is it an attempt to ensure trains are here and can be run non compliant in the hopes they will never need to be fixed? These are the questions that remain unanswered.

Geoff   

Wow, racist article that IMHO.

[Stillwater]

Back when Mr Newman was Premier, what was the estimated cost to build the NGR trains in  Queensland/Australia?

We know the contract cost for Indian procurement was $4.4 billion.

We are told now that a 'fix' (only partial) will cost $150m, with the extra money coming from a contingency fund - so $4.55b.

What are the costs of maintaining older trains that would have been retired from service to make way for NGR trains ($xxx).

What are the staff costs of maintaining staff at stations beyond normal hours and providing boarding assist personnel for non-compliant NGR trains ($xxxx).  And ongoing costs while NGR trains remain in service, should they operate beyond the Commonwealth Games ($xxxx).

What is the cost of stabling NGR trains at Redbank and the cost of the security detachment to guard them ($xxx).

What is the contingency for running NGR trains in defiance of the AHRC, should that occur (fines and legal challenges) $xxx.

What are the costs of legal counsel (Minter Ellison), other consultants and additional admin costs for the botched NGR trains ($xxx).

Add all this up and tell us what is the cost differential to the figure sought in Question 1.  Please.

Are we taxpayers still in front money wise?

THESE ARE QUESTIONS THE AUDITOR-GENERAL SHOULD BE ASKING.

[Stillwater]

Queensland Government wants to dodge the question.

Asked in writing by the AHRC the following ...

Given that the DDA has prohibited discrimination in public transport since 1993 and the DSAPT has been in force since 2002, please explain why the State of Queensland procured noncompliant
NGR trains in 2013. If TMR and/or QR seek to rely upon technical or 'unavoidable design constraint' reasons, please include any supporting materials TMR and/or QR considers
relevant —for instance expert reports, evidence of international practice, the results of any consultations carried out by TMR and/or QR.

And the reply?

In September 2012, the Department of Transport and Main Roads (TMR) became the principal delivery agency for the NGR project and the responsibility for project procurement was handed to Projects Queensland (now Queensland Treasury Commercial Group).  The technical specification for the NGR train provided to Treasury Commercial Group at that time did not include a second toilet, calling for a six-car driver-only train, with one toilet in the middle (to align with the
platform assisted boarding point). The decision to include one toilet module (rather than two) was made at Cabinet level by the State Government at that time.

It doesn't really answer the question, does it?

[HappyTrainGuy]

Fixing the NGR train with DUCT TAPE! Buses replacing trains. John Coyle video

NGR ~ 5 minutes in. Must be another of those pesky ' juvenile failures ' ...

Clipped a large bird at speed from what I heard. Ever seen what a kangaroo or cow has done to the tilts?? It is frequently held together with zip ties.... providing it hasn;t ripped all the fibreglass off the front of it

[ozbob]

Thanks for that info HTG!   

[InclusionMoves]

A good 3 years before we finally got acknowledgment of only one bathroom. So again time they wasted trying to hope no one would realise the issue.

Whether you procure a train or project manage a train you have a responsibility to ensure your project adheres to local legislation. This whole trying to draw a line between LNP and Labor stuff ups is messy and not getting us anywhere. Fact is there were cascading mistakes made by both. Both had equal time and opportunity to make good and make worse.

I am sure plenty of Newman government cabinet decisions were reversed when Labor came to power. So to say 'oh no was approved in cabinet couldn't possibly go about fixing that' is a folly,

Geoff   

Queensland Government wants to dodge the question.

Asked in writing by the AHRC the following ...

Given that the DDA has prohibited discrimination in public transport since 1993 and the DSAPT has been in force since 2002, please explain why the State of Queensland procured noncompliant
NGR trains in 2013. If TMR and/or QR seek to rely upon technical or 'unavoidable design constraint' reasons, please include any supporting materials TMR and/or QR considers
relevant —for instance expert reports, evidence of international practice, the results of any consultations carried out by TMR and/or QR.

And the reply?

In September 2012, the Department of Transport and Main Roads (TMR) became the principal delivery agency for the NGR project and the responsibility for project procurement was handed to Projects Queensland (now Queensland Treasury Commercial Group).  The technical specification for the NGR train provided to Treasury Commercial Group at that time did not include a second toilet, calling for a six-car driver-only train, with one toilet in the middle (to align with the
platform assisted boarding point). The decision to include one toilet module (rather than two) was made at Cabinet level by the State Government at that time.

It doesn't really answer the question, does it?

[ozbob]

Letter to the Editor Queensland Times 5th February 2018 page 14

Scale of rail blunder is ' unprecedented '

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/960262672217288706

[ozbob]

^

https://twitter.com/darthcaligula66/status/960320279867084800

[ozbob]

Queensland Times --> Only eight NGRs at Games

ONLY eight of Queensland's trouble-plagued New Generation Rollingstock trains will be in service by the start of the Commonwealth Games, despite a report claiming at least 18 were needed.

The transport plan for the April event on the Gold Coast was released this week. Queensland Rail's southeast network significantly altered to make up for the demand.

Transport and Main Roads Minister Mark Bailey said eight of the NGR locomotives would be ready, short of the 15 his predecessor Jackie Trad last year hoped to have on the track.

The maintenance depot for the NGR trains is at Wulkuraka and the trains are stored at Redbank.

A state government- commissioned report by German rail operator Deutsche Bahn, released in July 2017, found at least 18 of the NGR trains would be needed ahead of the Games.

When asked why only eight would be ready, Mr Bailey said the Government had been left to "clean up the mess" made by the previous LNP government when it signed the contract for the imported trains.

Queensland Rail chief executive Nick Easy said yesterday eight NGR trains would be needed to service the Commonwealth Games timetable.

Only a portion of the 75 trains have arrived in Queensland after a raft of safety concerns were identified, including line-of-sight issues and disability access.

Mr Easy previously said some trains had to be modified in Australia because they were built before the problems came to light, while the others would be fixed during construction.

He said on Monday that each new train underwent a rigorous testing process before it was allowed to join the fleet.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/960607582623690753

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/960613082471919616

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

7th February 2018

Not enough reliable trains?

Good Morning,

Apparently only 8 NGR trains will be in service for the Commonwealth Games.  A long way short of the suggested 18 required to run the Commonwealth Games rail services.

Queensland Times --> Only eight NGRs at Games

Quote

ONLY eight of Queensland's trouble-plagued New Generation Rollingstock trains will be in service by the start of the Commonwealth Games, despite a report claiming at least 18 were needed.

The transport plan for the April event on the Gold Coast was released this week. Queensland Rail's southeast network significantly altered to make up for the demand.

Transport and Main Roads Minister Mark Bailey said eight of the NGR locomotives would be ready, short of the 15 his predecessor Jackie Trad last year hoped to have on the track.

The maintenance depot for the NGR trains is at Wulkuraka and the trains are stored at Redbank.

A state government- commissioned report by German rail operator Deutsche Bahn, released in July 2017, found at least 18 of the NGR trains would be needed ahead of the Games.

When asked why only eight would be ready, Mr Bailey said the Government had been left to "clean up the mess" made by the previous LNP government when it signed the contract for the imported trains.

Queensland Rail chief executive Nick Easy said yesterday eight NGR trains would be needed to service the Commonwealth Games timetable.

Only a portion of the 75 trains have arrived in Queensland after a raft of safety concerns were identified, including line-of-sight issues and disability access.

Mr Easy previously said some trains had to be modified in Australia because they were built before the problems came to light, while the others would be fixed during construction.

He said on Monday that each new train underwent a rigorous testing process before it was allowed to join the fleet.

We have real concerns for the reliability of the rail timetable, particularly when low frequency services are in place on all lines other than Gold Coast.  Yesterday again, multiple service cancellations and alterations due to ' mechanical issues ' ( https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=1862.msg204461#msg204461 ).  When you have one hour service frequency and a service is cancelled this can mean  await up to 2 hours, on the Sunshine Coast with 2 hour service frequency this could mean a wait up to 4 hours!  Hardly acceptable is it?

Does Queensland Rail have plans to have trains on standby or will passengers be forced to wait hours for the next service ( which itself could be cancelled should the dreaded ' mechanical issue ' strike again! ).

The NGR train botch is having enormous repercussions sadly. The NGR project needs a Commission of Inquiry so that this mega-blunder is never repeated.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/960920817327419393

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/961057327213264896

[not_available]

How many in service now?

704	705	706		708
710			713	714

Did I miss any?

[ozbob]

AFAIAA I think that is correct as of now. Thanks.

[SurfRail]

Another 3, and that would be enough to retire the ICEs and the SMU200s in full.

I wonder if the "8 will be available" line is more "this is what we can get away with".  I'm struggling with why they would only have 1 more unit accepted for service in the next 2 months.

[ozbob]

The thought has crossed my mind is that 8 is worst case, but secretly they are hoping they might get a few up to acceptance level.

Keep expectations low and try to look good when they announce they have managed a few more?

[verbatim9]

As far as the jelly bean jar goes, I reckon they might have 11 by the Commonwealth Games!?

[Arnz]

One suggestion: How about  putting out a contract to install ATP on the IMU120s, then roster them on the Gympie North service full time, directly replacing the ICEs. (The IMU120s would at least have the flexibility for Ipswich/Springfield to Nambour & v.v services - or Doomben/Airport/Northgate shortworkings outside of the Gympie North services)

[ozbob]

No change at the AHRC website with respect to the ' State of Queensland ' exemption application.

I would expect a determination soon, particularly as the State specifically requested an expedited process, despite sitting on their hands for years ...    

[MichaelJ]

3,500 words into my article on the 700 Series. It's coming along nicely and will also feature a bit of a comparison with QR 160 Series and ST Waratah.

[ozbob]

3,500 words into my article on the 700 Series. It's coming along nicely and will also feature a bit of a comparison with QR 160 Series and ST Waratah.

Looking forward to it MJ!

[ozbob]

Note: Major track closure - CBD and Southern lines for the weekend 17-18 Feb 2018  http://www.queenslandrail.com.au/forcustomers/trackclosures/12monthcalendar  Allow plenty of time. Trains will be running Corinda to Redbank (Ipswich).
If you haven't been to Redbank before well worth a look around. 

If the NGRs are moved by then, will still go through the motions.

Both the Kerwick and the Commercial Hotels are a short stroll from Redbank railway station.

[ozbob]

Just passed Mayne NGR 709 in the yard. Might be number 8 in service soon.

[achiruel]

Another 3, and that would be enough to retire the ICEs and the SMU200s in full.

I wonder if the "8 will be available" line is more "this is what we can get away with".  I'm struggling with why they would only have 1 more unit accepted for service in the next 2 months.

This might be a dumb question, but why would they want to retire the much newer SMU200s before starting on the EMU retirement program?

[SurfRail]

It's a smaller and so more bespoke fleet which is also running into increasing problems.  They aren't going anywhere yet though.

[HappyTrainGuy]

It's a smaller and so more bespoke fleet which is also running into increasing problems.  They aren't going anywhere yet though.

Not quite on the fleet size. They share a lot of the components but they are pretty much based on the EMU with a newer body and 'some' updated electronics. They are also one of the few trains that you will ever see attached to an EMU and vice versa for shunting movements. They have the most faults/problems out of the entire 200/220 series.