New Generation Rollingstock

[SurfRail]

^ Is it signposted for it?  I was under the impression it was limited to less than that, not for any technical reason but because most trains sent out there can't exceed 100kph anyway (which will change in 2 years once the EMUs are pensioned off).

[red dragin]

I don't know if it is sign posted, but when I went out there to meet the ARHS trip, we certainly clipped along well over 100kph.

[ozbob]

When I went out in the cab on the first train out of Springfield Central ( rode in cab SMU 260 series empty from Darra to Springfield Central  early AM) certainly were going faster than 100 km/h at times.

[bretto82]

Springfeild is 140 from richlands to the Logan mway 130 over the bridge 140 from there to Springfeild then goes down to 110 and lower getting to Springfield central

[morb]

This afternoon's service had the guard, on the approach into every station, reminding over the PA that the button was at the middle of the doors. And you can see why when you look where they put the emergency door release button! 

[ozbob]

Some more NGR trains at the Port I understand. Redbank has been mentioned as a possible stabling option. Don't think much room left at Wulkuraka.

I think doing the DDA modifications at Redbank Workshops would also make sense.  But not sure if the resources are still available there.  It was once of course a workshop capable of major works, as we noted during our tour there in 2008.

[SurfRail]

It is going to be an ongoing problem until EMU disposal starts, and that won't happen for a few months at least.

[tazzer9]

My summary of my 2.5 hour NGR journey.
1.  Mechanically great.  Quiet, fast, good braking (except for a one screechy brake, the rest were fine). Very smooth ride.  Doors open quietly and fairly quickly as well
2. AC isn't great, as soon as i got off i was went into a emu that was at least 5 degrees cooler.   Also not very quiet.
3. Door buttons are alright, but the announcement made to avoid people hitting the poor placed emergency buttons gets annoying
4. Tv screens are great, really good.  they were often advertising the light rail opening as well.  However, the use of yellow text on these is a graphic design screw up, I could not make out what any word in yellow said, despite me being to read everything else on the screen, and i have ~20/15 vision. 
5. The PID screens are good and much clearer than old ones however face a problem of not being able to be read when seated.  I like how they have an arrow to show which side the platform is on.
6.  They actually have doors between the carriages, presumably to lock off sections at night.  This does mean the walkway through it isn't that wide, and the quiet carriage idea fails but for no gain in function.
7.  What is the deal with the stupid bump at the carriage connector?  Don't know why everyone is complaining about the width of the walkway when a wheelchair could not get over this. 
8.  The seats are crap.   So much is wrong with them i could write a book.  They are so tall you can't see any of the PID's, or anything in front of you.  They also have a yellow bar which blocks view and this bar doesn't seem to have a reason for them.    The underseat support is annoying and means you can't stretch out or put bags under the seat (something which they advertise).  They are hard.  The angle is way too upright.   I have caught long trips in NSW with their OScar and warath seats and they are so much better than these.  Its not that there hard, it's everything contributing to them them being uncomfortable.  I also don't like my hair touching something everyone else's hair will touch.  There is a reason why long distance trains and airplanes put a little napkin thing and change it out in that location.  The seats also feel narrower.
9.  The train feels very cheap.  It will be a vandals paradise.  The floor feels slippery and tacky at the same time.  This train will be terrible to be on in 20 years time
10.  window has perfect armrest height and width.
11. lighting is good.

Overall.  Good base train design that should have an internal makeover. 

[red dragin]

Some more NGR trains at the Port I understand. Redbank has been mentioned as a possible stabling option. Don't think much room left at Wulkuraka.

I think doing the DDA modifications at Redbank Workshops would also make sense.  But not sure if the resources are still available there.  It was once of course a workshop capable of major works, as we noted during our tour there in 2008.

Banyo & Elimbah stabling are complete, perhaps there?
I don't know if Woombye is (no updates on project page). Robina would be too busy to store unused sets I would expect.

[InclusionMoves]

Width of aisles is certainly only one part of our submission. Movement etc just as big an issue. For PWD and general public. So totally all over it,

Geoff

My summary of my 2.5 hour NGR journey.
1.  Mechanically great.  Quiet, fast, good braking (except for a one screechy brake, the rest were fine). Very smooth ride.  Doors open quietly and fairly quickly as well
2. AC isn't great, as soon as i got off i was went into a emu that was at least 5 degrees cooler.   Also not very quiet.
3. Door buttons are alright, but the announcement made to avoid people hitting the poor placed emergency buttons gets annoying
4. Tv screens are great, really good.  they were often advertising the light rail opening as well.  However, the use of yellow text on these is a graphic design screw up, I could not make out what any word in yellow said, despite me being to read everything else on the screen, and i have ~20/15 vision. 
5. The PID screens are good and much clearer than old ones however face a problem of not being able to be read when seated.  I like how they have an arrow to show which side the platform is on.
6.  They actually have doors between the carriages, presumably to lock off sections at night.  This does mean the walkway through it isn't that wide, and the quiet carriage idea fails but for no gain in function.
7.  What is the deal with the stupid bump at the carriage connector?  Don't know why everyone is complaining about the width of the walkway when a wheelchair could not get over this. 
8.  The seats are crap.   So much is wrong with them i could write a book.  They are so tall you can't see any of the PID's, or anything in front of you.  They also have a yellow bar which blocks view and this bar doesn't seem to have a reason for them.    The underseat support is annoying and means you can't stretch out or put bags under the seat (something which they advertise).  They are hard.  The angle is way too upright.   I have caught long trips in NSW with their OScar and warath seats and they are so much better than these.  Its not that there hard, it's everything contributing to them them being uncomfortable.  I also don't like my hair touching something everyone else's hair will touch.  There is a reason why long distance trains and airplanes put a little napkin thing and change it out in that location.  The seats also feel narrower.
9.  The train feels very cheap.  It will be a vandals paradise.  The floor feels slippery and tacky at the same time.  This train will be terrible to be on in 20 years time
10.  window has perfect armrest height and width.
11. lighting is good.

Overall.  Good base train design that should have an internal makeover.

[ozbob]

I refuse to ride in a NGR until the authorities have an exemption from AHRC, or they are compliant.  Which is ever sooner.

It is my way of expressing solidarity with PWD.

I am catching the Airtrain tomorrow morning.  If it is an NGR I will wait till the next service.

[tazzer9]

Your not missing out on much.  However you will get to see the new apron at BNE international being used if you get the airtrain. 

[ozbob]

Your not missing out on much.  However you will get to see the new apron at BNE international being used if you get the airtrain.

with a bit of luck I might score the mighty EMU 01 - has rippa air con ... 

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/941764426910150656

[SteelPan]

1970's Queensland Rail

Doors Open....Check
Doors Close....Check
Room enough in door areas for wheelchairs......Check
Horn Works....HONNNK
PA Works....pretty poorly.....but technically.....Check
Breaks Work....Check
Lights Work....Check
Aircon Working....Check
Windscreen Wiper...Check

OKKKKay...ready to roll......


21stC QR

Reports 37, 43, 91 and 128 still have issues with UN requirements 92A, 774, Chapters 23, 28 and 114, that the disability support functions SHALL be ALREADY deemed to have met requirements as defined in the mandate for the carrying of persons, as classed under sections 23, 38 and 47 of the locally declared legislation in keeping with....checking out.....

[Stillwater]

"SHALL be ALREADY deemed to have met requirements" ....a bit of a worry.

Queensland has form when it comes to passing state legislation contrary to federal law and then saying something like: "This meets all state legislative requirements."

The DDA is Commonwealth legislation and over-rides state law, but Queensland is dumb enough to take it to the High Court for a challenge,  if necessary.

[HappyTrainGuy]

9.  The train feels very cheap.  It will be a vandals paradise.  The floor feels slippery and tacky at the same time.  This train will be terrible to be on in 20 years time

Opposite. The cheap feel is actually just part of the design for quick and easy servicing. Major overhauls will be performed a lot faster compared to the existing rollingstock. Same with the floors. It can just easily be ripped up and a new one applied.

^ Is it signposted for it?  I was under the impression it was limited to less than that, not for any technical reason but because most trains sent out there can't exceed 100kph anyway (which will change in 2 years once the EMUs are pensioned off).

SMU260 and IMUs are the only CityTrain rollingstock capable of 140kph. SMU220 can hit 120/130kph with software mods (the old HS rollingsock donated these mods) but the downside is excessive wheel wear, vibrations/carriage rocking, extra wind and component noise and a few other smaller issues.

9.  The train feels very cheap.  It will be a vandals paradise.  The floor feels slippery and tacky at the same time.  This train will be terrible to be on in 20 years time

Opposite. The cheap feel is actually just part of the design for quick and easy servicing. Major overhauls will be performed a lot faster compared to the existing rollingstock. Same with the floors. It can just easily be ripped up and a new one applied.

^ Is it signposted for it?  I was under the impression it was limited to less than that, not for any technical reason but because most trains sent out there can't exceed 100kph anyway (which will change in 2 years once the EMUs are pensioned off).

SMU260 and IMUs are the only CityTrain rollingstock capable of 140kph. SMU220 can hit 120/130kph with software mods (the old HS rollingsock donated these mods) but the downside is excessive wheel wear, vibrations/carriage rocking, extra wind and component noise and a few other smaller issues.

1970's Queensland Rail

Doors Open....Check
Doors Close....Check
Room enough in door areas for wheelchairs......Check They were ripped out when they underwent overhauls. For a majority of their life they never had any wheelchair facilities. Infact during the overhauls the leg space around the cabs was decreased to enable wheelchair access.
Horn Works....HONNNK
PA Works....pretty poorly.....but technically.....Check
Breaks Work....Check (Those special pads had some bite to them - next time you are on an EMU note how the smell - from the cleaning products to the pads - have changed over the years )
Lights Work....Check
Aircon Working....Check
Windscreen Wiper...Check

OKKKKay...ready to roll......

Fixed it for you

[BrizCommuter]

Wrapped 706 is in Mayne this morning in full view of passing trains. 202 covered in graffiti (as it has been for weeks) is a few tracks away.

[SurfRail]

SMU260 and IMUs are the only CityTrain rollingstock capable of 140kph.

IMU100s, IMU120s and NGRs.  The IMU160s and SMU260s will do 130kph.  ICEs are limited to (IIRC) 120kph but wouldn't have many opportunities to reach it. Nothing else is currently rated for more than 100kph.

[HappyTrainGuy]

IMU100s, IMU120s and NGRs.  The IMU160s and SMU260s will do 130kph.  ICEs are limited to (IIRC) 120kph but wouldn't have many opportunities to reach it. Nothing else is currently rated for more than 100kph.

As I said all the IMUs and the SMU260 will do 140kph and everything else is pretty much 100kph (not sure why 130kph keeps getting referenced).

ICE are limited to 120kph because of the ATP (ATP north of Caboolture/No ATP but 100kph speed board limited south of Caboolture) and fulltime speed limited when attached to an EMU.

SMU220 can and have been software modded previously to hit ~125kph but it increased the mtce cycles on the  converted units due to the extra speeds along with excessive noise inside the carriages. Once the 160/260 came online they were very quickly changed back.

[SurfRail]

As I said all the IMUs and the SMU260 will do 140kph and everything else is pretty much 100kph (not sure why 130kph keeps getting referenced).

And I'm not sure why you think they are rated for 140 when they aren't.  The 160s and 260s get to 130 but accelerate faster than the 100s and 120s.

The HS SMUs were generally only operated at around 110kph.

[ozbob]

If you are around Redbank Thursday ~ noon the 🐻 are having a picnic.

[HappyTrainGuy]

The HS-SMU had their speed reduced during the conversions after they found out the issues that they were coming up with as they exceeded the trains initial design with software mods. Wind noise and passenger discomfort from excessive vibration was pretty bad. And don't believe the top speeds you see on Wikipedia. There's a lot of missing or incorrect information on there. For instance the traction motors on the 160/260 during acceptance testing/in service were detuned because they kept imploding during the phase change.

[SurfRail]

They don't reach 140kph, period.

In theory I've been told the motors would be capable of sustaining well in excess of 200kph but obviously never will.

[ozbob]

If you are around Redbank Thursday ~ noon the 🐻 are having a picnic.

A NGR (701) being towed by 2 DEL has just arrived at Redbank.
Moving into the workshops.

Might be another later today!

Looking like they have run out of room at Wulkuraka. Moved to Redbank for storage. Understand 2 more at the Port and 2 more at sea.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/darthcaligula66/status/943711600011182081

[SurfRail]

I wouldn't be too concerned about the lack of seating, it wouldn't surprise me to lean it had been removed for load testing or some other testing purpose.

Is it just me, or is the air-conditioning (at least in the 3 currently operating) really subpar?

[tazzer9]

Is it just me, or is the air-conditioning (at least in the 3 currently operating) really subpar?

Agree.  In the few times i've been on them, it hasn't been very hot, often going through shade, rather low patronage so less door openings and the air-con hasn't been able to keep up. 

[tazzer9]

When I was last on an NGR, I overheard the station staff saying they needed to give the right-of-way for NGR's.   Isn't giving the right of way in Queensland considered a safeworking duty?  And I know most station staff aren't safeworking trained.  Or did they simply use incorrect wording and all they need to do is give an all clear signal to the guard? 

[tazzer9]

Had another impromptu NGR experience tonight. Just 3 units on the network really cover alot of services.   They have now added the reminder of the button being in the middle of the doors to the automated announcement.  Which is then followed by the guard saying the same thing. 
I just hate how more things are added to those automated announcements.   Some are so long and repetitive now I don't even hear it. 

[ozbob]

 

[ozbob]

I reckon 701 & 702 must need a fair bit of work to get them into service, hence been stabled out of the way for the time being.

It is amazing to think NGR 701 had been at WMC for 670 days and still not right.

Desperate days looming ...

[InclusionMoves]

For those thinking the approval of the states exemption application is a lock. Check out day 10. https://www.humanrights.gov.au/news/opinions/twelve-days-disability-rights

"On the tenth day of Christmas, my true love sent to me... accessible trains.  Every day millions of Australians rely on public transport to get them to school, work, medical appointments and to visit family and friends.  Yet every day thousands of people with disability are unable to use public transport.  Access issues include train stations with only stairs and no lifts, bus timetables that are hard to follow or not user-friendly, and a lack of accessible taxis on Christmas Day due to heavy demand."

Hard not to say that has a certain "I am looking at you Queensland Rail, look at me when we are speaking to you" feeling to it :-)

Geoff

[JimmyP]

I reckon 701 & 702 must need a fair bit of work to get them into service, hence been stabled out of the way for the time being.

It is amazing to think NGR 701 had been at WMC for 670 days and still not right.

Desperate days looming ...

It's a fairly normal thing for the first couple trains or so of a new type to need quite a lot of remedial work before being able to enter revenue service. Being the first of their type of train, the first few trains are run through the wringer, so to speak, testing every part of the train to the point of 'exhaustion' (well beyond normal service levels), to ensure the train can withstand anything thrown at it in service.
The Waratah trains in Sydney had the same thing, A3 was the first to enter service while A1 and A2 were returned to China for remedial work (A2 was subsequently written off due to damage during transport, by memory). The Waratah PPTV (Pre Production Test Vehicle, 4 car train) was originally due to be made in to a later production 8 car train after remedial work, but ended up being scrapped simply due to the strains, wear and tear that it went through during type testing.
So, basocally, don't expect 701 or 702 to be in service any time soon! Nothing out of the ordinary though!

[ozbob]

Still a long time and they are now running non compliant trains without legal protection as the reality of the looming games is starting to cause panic 

Total botch this NGR shambles and they still bumble on ...

[ozbob]

I would not be surprised if exemption knocked back now such is their dumb arrogance. No way will they get 3 years as stupidity has its costs!

For those thinking the approval of the states exemption application is a lock. Check out day 10. https://www.humanrights.gov.au/news/opinions/twelve-days-disability-rights

"On the tenth day of Christmas, my true love sent to me... accessible trains.  Every day millions of Australians rely on public transport to get them to school, work, medical appointments and to visit family and friends.  Yet every day thousands of people with disability are unable to use public transport.  Access issues include train stations with only stairs and no lifts, bus timetables that are hard to follow or not user-friendly, and a lack of accessible taxis on Christmas Day due to heavy demand."

Hard not to say that has a certain "I am looking at you Queensland Rail, look at me when we are speaking to you" feeling to it :-)

Geoff

[ozbob]

Days since NGR 701 towed to Wulkuraka

[ozbob]

NGR 701 being moved at Redbank





















Photographs mufreight 21st December 2017

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/944331718403616768

[red dragin]

That's the siding closest to the front of the complex?