• Welcome to RAIL - Back On Track Forum.
 

New Generation Rollingstock

Started by O_128, April 13, 2010, 17:16:06 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

ozbob

Sent to all outlets:

8th December 2017

NGR exemption should be for 6 months only

Good Morning,

We know that Queensland Rail is going to introduce the NGR trains into service on Monday the 11th.  We have supported the disability sector with their concerns because they are real. We have members who are disabled and what about the disabled community at large?  It is said that up to 20% of our population have a disability. Not all disabilities are obvious.

An operator that disregards the requirements of the DDA and DSAPT and abandons due process, no matter how they perceive their justification is in our view not correct and has compromised the State of Queensland.

Accordingly, as the AHRC still has the public submission period in operation until the 15th January 2018 [ http://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-work/legal/exemptions/exemption-applications-under-disability-discrimination-act-1992-cth ] we will be making a submission to support the exemption but only for 6 months.  This will allow the rail operator to negotiate the Commonwealth Games period and use the NGRs under real passenger load conditions.  This will allow for a more mature rectification plan to be developed.

A three-year exemption is not on in our view.  It would allow the Queensland Government to import all the train sets on order, with those trains potentially being non-compliant with respect to the DDA and DSAPT.  Queensland would seek to manoeuvre to have the exemption apply to the whole order by virtue of the fact that the importation of all NGR trains would have occurred during the three-year exemption period.  And then we would be stuck with them for the next 30 or so years.  That's unacceptable in our view.

A six month exemption granted by the AHRC would allow the NGR trains into service for the period of the Games and reduce the impact on all commuters in SEQ  during the Commonwealth Games; some trains would not need to be diverted from other lines and perhaps avoid some line closures.

In granting a six month exemption, the AHRC should impose an order that, at the end of that six-month period, it would want to see a fully funded  detailed rectification plan from the Queensland State Government, otherwise it should not grant exemption beyond the initial six months in our view.

It puts the pressure on TMR/QR to pull in their horns and work on a real solution -- the opposite to their tactics to date.  By applying for an exemption at the last minute, this state's transport agencies have indicated they proposed all along to bluff their way through and around the DDA specifications in our opinion (which have the authority of law under the Act) .

We are extremely disappointed in the DTMR's management of this project.  It has been grossly inept.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

ozbob

Letter to the Editor Queensland Times 8th December 2017 page 13

Questions raised over new carriages

Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

ozbob

Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

#Metro


So QR is going to put allegedly unlawful trains on the rail network into passenger service.

And the QR board and QR CEO is allegedly OK with carrying out this instruction?

Why don't they refuse to supply drivers until an exemption is approved?

I get that public servants have to do as instructed by their political masters, but when it comes to allegedly non-legal and perhaps even

conta-QR policy instruction, surely QR can refuse to comply?

Why is QR going along with this?
Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

ozbob

#2204
Their own legal advice suggests that running the trains non-compliant without an exemption (temporary) puts them at legal risk. The DDA and the associated DSAPT are actually law.
It is a bit odd that they would ignore that and just proceed.

You are correct #Metro, it does appear the QR Board is allowing the organisation to proceed at risk.  I thought boards were there to protect against this sort of stuff.

The QR Board does seem to be largely ineffective.  Was prior and during the build up to #railfail.  And has done nothing since the onset of #railfail to give me any confidence.

All would have been well if DTMR had acted in 2016 to seek an exemption.  Plenty of time to have developed a detailed rectification plan as well.   :fp:

I had to laugh.  The application for temporary exemption was requested to be ' fast tracked ' at AHRC by the State of Queensland (DTMR/QR).  Hey ho,  they had more than enough time to apply without making demands of AHRC.  After making that demand they then took from 18th October 2017 to the 25th November 2017 to supply the further information that AHRC had requested! 

Really is a mess.  It is an embarrassment.  It is not in the longer term interests of the State of Queensland to have such poor bureaucratic administration.

Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

InclusionMoves

This is and has been exactly my point guys. Take the disability aspect out of this for a second. This sets up a culture of ignoring legislative requirements and moving on down the track (pun intended) regardless. Workplace relations law, health and safety law, its all in play now. Everyone should be concerned with that regardless of disability or not.

Geoff   

Quote from: #Metro on December 08, 2017, 08:39:49 AM

So QR is going to put allegedly unlawful trains on the rail network into passenger service.

And the QR board and QR CEO is allegedly OK with carrying out this instruction?

Why don't they refuse to supply drivers until an exemption is approved?

I get that public servants have to do as instructed by their political masters, but when it comes to allegedly non-legal and perhaps even

conta-QR policy instruction, surely QR can refuse to comply?

Why is QR going along with this?
Geoff Trappett OAM
Phone: 0411812854
Twitter: @inclusionmoves
LinkedIn: https://au.linkedin.com/in/geofftrappettoam
Website: www.inclusionmoves.com.au
Much of our work is pro bono: https://www.paypal.me/InclusionMoves

ozbob

Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

techblitz

the bottom line is:

able bodied people can take a p%ss on these trains
non-able bodied people CANT

=== discrimination

made worse by the fact that the discriminated class still have to pay full fare....
the only option is to remove the discrimination...
CLOSE/DISABLE THE NGR TOILETS (which is old news for QR considering they have no problem shutting toilets at their train stations)

ozbob

#2208
^ some of us have entertained that prospect privately. It would not surprise if they did exactly that.  Brand new trains with toilets locked because they are not compliant.  The media will have a field day.

Doesn't alter the fact that the trains are not compliant in the end though.  The evidence is the State of Queensland Application presently up on the AHRC website.

Should Queensland Rail do that it will stamp them forever as a failure, with no regard to Australian law or due process.

Frankly, this is just desperation to cover up the failure by DTMR ( the NGR project manager ) to proactively manage the non-compliance.  I suspect Queensland Rail is being directed from above.

Even if they closed off the toilets and passageway I don't think this will remove the discrimination. It is still indirect discrimination as I read it. Others might comment later.

https://www.humanrights.gov.au/publications/dont-judg#aims

Quote... Discrimination is unlawful in employment, access to premises, education, sport, clubs and associations, accommodation, administration of Commonwealth laws and programs, and in provision of goods, services and facilities, including public transport, finance and banking, insurance and superannuation.

Harassment on the basis of disability is specifically made unlawful in employment, education and the provision of goods and services.

The legislation covers both direct and indirect discrimination.

Direct discrimination happens when people with a disability are treated less favourably than people without the disability are treated or would be treated. Indirect discrimination happens where a "one size fits all" rule or situation unreasonably excludes or disadvantages people with disabilities in practice.So, for example, a building with entrance only by steps indirectly discriminates against people who use wheelchairs or have other mobility impairments if level access or lifts or ramps could reasonably have been provided. ...
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

InclusionMoves

Hi guys,

Ozbob is right. Although the bathroom is one element of non compliant there are others. Unfortunately when I do media and talk in soundbites you have to just focus on something the public understands. Hence its normally bathrooms that get mentioned.

Geoff

Quote from: ozbob on December 09, 2017, 07:33:08 AM
^ some of us have entertained that prospect privately. It would not surprise if they did exactly that.  Brand new trains with toilets locked because they are not compliant.  The media will have a field day.

Doesn't alter the fact that the trains are not compliant in the end though.  The evidence is the State of Queensland Application presently up on the AHRC website.

Should Queensland Rail do that it will stamp them forever as a failure, with no regard to Australian law or due process.

Frankly, this is just desperation to cover up the failure by DTMR ( the NGR project manager ) to proactively manage the non-compliance.  I suspect Queensland Rail is being directed from above.

Even if they closed off the toilets and passageway I don't think this will remove the discrimination. It is still indirect discrimination as I read it. Others might comment later.

https://www.humanrights.gov.au/publications/dont-judg#aims

Quote... Discrimination is unlawful in employment, access to premises, education, sport, clubs and associations, accommodation, administration of Commonwealth laws and programs, and in provision of goods, services and facilities, including public transport, finance and banking, insurance and superannuation.

Harassment on the basis of disability is specifically made unlawful in employment, education and the provision of goods and services.

The legislation covers both direct and indirect discrimination.

Direct discrimination happens when people with a disability are treated less favourably than people without the disability are treated or would be treated. Indirect discrimination happens where a "one size fits all" rule or situation unreasonably excludes or disadvantages people with disabilities in practice.So, for example, a building with entrance only by steps indirectly discriminates against people who use wheelchairs or have other mobility impairments if level access or lifts or ramps could reasonably have been provided. ...
Geoff Trappett OAM
Phone: 0411812854
Twitter: @inclusionmoves
LinkedIn: https://au.linkedin.com/in/geofftrappettoam
Website: www.inclusionmoves.com.au
Much of our work is pro bono: https://www.paypal.me/InclusionMoves

#Metro

#2210
Quote
Doesn't alter the fact that the trains are not compliant in the end though.  The evidence is the State of Queensland Application presently up on the AHRC website.

Should Queensland Rail do that it will stamp them forever as a failure, with no regard to Australian law or due process.

Frankly, this is just desperation to cover up the failure by DTMR ( the NGR project manager ) to proactively manage the non-compliance.  I suspect Queensland Rail is being directed from above.


I suspect that QR is completely unconcerned about legal action and any fines that might come out of that. Being government-owned,

Queensland Rail is the State, and the State has deep pockets. Even if the fine is say, 10 million, so what? Pass it on to the taxpayers.

There's probably some funds in the Commonwealth Games contingency that could be used to cover it.
Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

InclusionMoves

Regretfully Metro based on the evidence of it actually moving forward I have to agree with you despite how annoying it is to me as a taxpayer.

Geoff

Quote from: #Metro on December 09, 2017, 09:08:13 AM
Quote
Doesn't alter the fact that the trains are not compliant in the end though.  The evidence is the State of Queensland Application presently up on the AHRC website.

Should Queensland Rail do that it will stamp them forever as a failure, with no regard to Australian law or due process.

Frankly, this is just desperation to cover up the failure by DTMR ( the NGR project manager ) to proactively manage the non-compliance.  I suspect Queensland Rail is being directed from above.


I suspect that QR is completely unconcerned about legal action and any fines that might come out of that. Being government-owned,

Queensland Rail is the State, and the State has deep pockets. Even if the fine is say, 10 million, so what? Pass it on to the taxpayers.

There's probably some funds in the Commonwealth Games contingency that could be used to cover it.
Geoff Trappett OAM
Phone: 0411812854
Twitter: @inclusionmoves
LinkedIn: https://au.linkedin.com/in/geofftrappettoam
Website: www.inclusionmoves.com.au
Much of our work is pro bono: https://www.paypal.me/InclusionMoves

ozbob

If there was some slammer time might be a different outcome.

In a way I do feel a little for the QR management and staff, being put into such a situation as consequence of DTMR's incompetence.

But the sad reality is a once great rail operator is now clearly Australia's worst in many minds.  Probably a few more minds come Monday.
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

ozbob

Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

Stillwater

This phrase (from above) encapsulates the issue:

"TMR is pro-actively attempting to manage the non-compliance."

That is, TMR does not wish to be compliant necessarily.  It just wishes to neutralise its non-compliance as an issue.  It wants to break the law and not be subject to it.  And this from a government department staffed by those whose job it is to administer the law and perform government functions consistent with the law and approved guidelines enabled by legislation.


ozbob

Slight correction. 

" failure by DTMR ( the NGR project manager ) to proactively manage the non-compliance ... "

Had DTMR got the exemption process underway earlier this year, all would be done and dusted now.
Temporary exemption in hand, and a proper rectification plan.

I think most of us would accept that provided there is an exemption ( remember an exemption would only be granted if there is a clear path to rectification) then not the issue it is now.  For the State of Queensland (per DTMR/QR) to apply for an exemption and then decide to proceed regardless without an exemption, is very very sloppy and possibly illegal in my opinion.

Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

matlock

What should happen is that non-compliant trains are put in service whilst compliant trains are built. Once the compliant trains are ready to be used on the network, pull the non-compliant trains and redo them to compliance.

It sucks for those with disabilities, especially since those who have to wait for the next train will end up waiting quite a while on our network, but something had to give. These trains have been a nightmare from start to finish and they need to start putting them into revenue service to help recoup some of the billions they've spent. They're not DDA compliant now but they will have to be within a couple of years.

ozbob

#2217
They need the exemption to run the non-compliant trains legally. They do not have that exemption because they sat on it and tried to bluff their way through it all and then decided to try to force the exemption through fast tracking at AHRC last minute.  The AHRC has to stick to due process. 

My view is that they should wait until they have the exemption.   That is the correct and proper thing to do. 

Their own legal advice was to that effect. 
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

ozbob

#2218
2nd November 2016

Acting QR CEO Neil Scales interviewed on 612 ABC about the rail crisis

NGR comments from ~ 11.00 minutes  :o

Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

ozbob

1/03/2017 NGR trains have faulty brakes, poor positioning of controls and doors that aren't wide enough for wheelchair access.

DDA issues flagged

Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

ozbob

Application for exemption should have been made by April 2017.

No. doubt. about. it.

Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky


ozbob

IM forced to go public Mar 2017, because of the continued stonewalling behind closed doors ( for around 12 months prior ).

This is a sad indictment on the NGR project management.  There is no way they should be allowed to get away with this botch.  And further treat the disabled community and the AHRC with contempt by running the non-compliant trains without an exemption.  They had plenty of time to get it right administratively.  The chose to be duplicitous and devious. 

Just remember of all this when the media beat up is on and ' how lovely the trains look '.
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

Stillwater

From the AHRC website:

"Any temporary exemption should be consistent with the objects of the Act. The circumstances in which it will be necessary, or appropriate, to grant such exemptions will be limited."

"The Commission has been prepared to grant exemptions on condition that the applicant makes and meets commitments to improve access or opportunity within a reasonable period."

If you want an example of TMR's arrogance, still, read this sentence from the application to the AHRC:

"While the rectification work is underway, the NGR trains will enter passenger service in their current configuration (as outlined in paragraph 1.3 above) to meet requirements for increased capacity for and beyond the 2018 Gold Coast Commonwealth Games."

WILL

Not wording to the effect of: "Subject to the consideration of the AHRC, it is proposed that the NGR trains will enter passenger service etc."

WILL

And have a look at this sentence in the submission:

"TMR made a commitment in June 2017 to review the overall design of the NGR train's design to maximise its compliance with the discrimination and safety legislation, associated disability standards and functional performance requirements."

Note the wording carefully: "maximise its compliance".

NOT: "to comply fully".

Strangely, TMR/QR say this in the application:

"Legal certainty is required in circumstances where the NGR trains are urgently required to replace an ageing fleet and be used for the 2018 Gold Coast Commonwealth Games."

They have legal certainty from their own legal sources.  These say, with all legal certainty, that the NGR trains are built to a design that does not comply with the law.  The advice is unequivocal.

And then we have these words:

"A key object of the DDA is to "eliminate, as far as possible, discrimination against persons on the ground of disability" in, among other things, the provision of goods, facilities and services. This is also reflected in the purpose set out in section 1.2 of the DSAPT.

"This requirement means that discrimination should be eliminated "as far as possible", with the necessary implication that it may not be reasonable to immediately or completely eliminate discrimination in every instance."

TMR/QR are laying the groundwork whereby they intend to "not completely" meet the requirements of the DDA.

And here we have the get-out clause again:

"With the NGR fleet as constructed, an appropriate lead-in time is required to remedy areas of noncompliance with the DSAPT (as far as possible). This can only be achieved by the temporary exemptions being granted."



ozbob

#2224
Yes, overall very concerning Mr Stillwater.

There was an interesting exchange on Twitter between DP Trad and myself yesterday evening.  Finally took the bait and declared their real reason for not waiting for the outcome of the exemption application, viz.

https://twitter.com/jackietrad/status/939400283804680193

https://twitter.com/jackietrad/status/939400970248716289

https://twitter.com/jackietrad/status/939405877684998145

https://twitter.com/jackietrad/status/939407684339580928

Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky


ozbob

Mr Stillwater.  I am sure you realise this but I will comment for our wider readership.
The authorities are banking on the fact that a discrimination claim to the AHRC on Monday will take some time.

It is unlikely that the disability groups are able to mount a case for an injunction which of course would force Queensland Rail stop the NGR trains.  This is how serious potentially this disregard of the AHRC actually is.

I would like to be surprised though if an injunction case was brought forward.

It costs big $$ to press for an injunction.  There is not much doubt that an injunction would succeed.

I feel good that at least I have stood up for due process and human rights. 

Looking forward to the next years of rail fail. 

You could say ' you ain't seen nothing yet ' ..

Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

ozbob



Queensland: Call for a Commission of Inquiry into the New Generation Rollingstock Project

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has again called for a Commission of Inquiry into the botched New Generation Rollingstock train project.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"It is disturbing that Queensland's transport authorities and a succession of under-performing Governments, have managed to order new trains, the New Generation Rollingstock trains, that are not compliant with the Disability Discrimination Act (DDA) (1). They now intend to operate these non compliant NGR trains without the legal protection of a temporary exemption from the AHRC.

"Equally perplexing is the fact that it took nearly two years for the Department of Transport and Main Roads to acknowledge that the trains are not compliant (2).  Disability Advocates have been pressing this for around two years now. Valuable time has been wasted as the trains languished out at Wulkuraka, and Transport and Main Roads personnel remained in denial.

"RAIL Back On Track has previously made a request to the Queensland Auditor General to have this projected audited. This was declined.

"There is little recourse now other than a full Commission of Inquiry.  It is clear to us that the secrecy around this project is clearly designed to protect failure within the Government bureaucracy over a long period - many years.

"It is also clear that we are in a major rail meltdown with a resolution a very distant dream. There are now 21 non DDA non DSAPT compliant NGR trains in Queensland with more on the way we understand. Queensland Rail's service delivery is plagued by constant mechanical issues with the aging train fleet, which causes ongoing service cancellations and delays, let alone the timetable reductions in service already impacting severely in SEQ.  The situation is very, very grim."

"Any reasonable observer can now understand why we requested an audit into this NGR project (albeit declined) early this year.  Our previous calls for a Commission of Inquiry into this project have been ignored.  Today we again call for a Commission of Inquiry into the NGR project.

"We do not want a constant public blame game played out and dumb politics. We want the true facts and circumstances brought into the clear light of day so the monumental botch that this project represents is not repeated.

"This fact is clear: Non DDA compliant NGR trains were ordered under the previous Newman LNP Administration.

"DTMR and the former Palaszczuk Government reluctantly accepted that the trains are not DDA compliant only a few months ago ( at least publicly ), despite disability advocates raising concerns for years.  An application for a temporary exemption for the non DDA non DSAPT compliant NGR trains to the Australian Human Rights Commission (AHRC) was finally made late September."

"The exemption application has now gone to public consultation ( closing date 15th January 2018 ). The AHRC then has to consider the consultation and then make a determination.  We expect at the earliest a possible exemption would be granted is late January or early February 2018.

"Make no mistake, a series of Governments and DTMR have failed Queensland.  Let's have a Commission of Inquiry to get to the facts and truth!

"We again call on the incoming Government to form a Commission Inquiry into this major failure.

"The public deserve to know the level of incompetence that is transport policy in Queensland."

References:

1. Media releases from Inclusion Moves - a number
https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3706.msg195056#msg195056

2. Interview Geoff Trappett OAM Inclusion Moves with Steve Austin ABC Radio Brisbane concerning DDA issues with NGR trains
https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3706.msg195217#msg195217

3. Nine News Brisbane 20th October 2017


4. Acting QR CEO Neil Scales interviewed on 612 ABC about the rail crisis 2nd November 2016  NGR relevance from around 11.00 minutes


5. Call to build 12 Qld SMU260 trains to ease Brisbane rail crisis 1st Mar 2017


6. AHRC State of Queensland temporary exemption application
http://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-work/legal/exemptions/exemption-applications-under-disability-discrimination-act-1992-cth

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

ozbob

Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

ozbob

Sunday Mail 10th December 2017 page 2

Rail staff reforms hit taxpayers

Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

ozbob

Quote from: Stillwater on December 09, 2017, 20:34:55 PM
From the AHRC website:

"Any temporary exemption should be consistent with the objects of the Act. The circumstances in which it will be necessary, or appropriate, to grant such exemptions will be limited."

"The Commission has been prepared to grant exemptions on condition that the applicant makes and meets commitments to improve access or opportunity within a reasonable period."

If you want an example of TMR's arrogance, still, read this sentence from the application to the AHRC:

"While the rectification work is underway, the NGR trains will enter passenger service in their current configuration (as outlined in paragraph 1.3 above) to meet requirements for increased capacity for and beyond the 2018 Gold Coast Commonwealth Games."

WILL

Not wording to the effect of: "Subject to the consideration of the AHRC, it is proposed that the NGR trains will enter passenger service etc."

WILL

And have a look at this sentence in the submission:

"TMR made a commitment in June 2017 to review the overall design of the NGR train's design to maximise its compliance with the discrimination and safety legislation, associated disability standards and functional performance requirements."

Note the wording carefully: "maximise its compliance".

NOT: "to comply fully".

Strangely, TMR/QR say this in the application:

"Legal certainty is required in circumstances where the NGR trains are urgently required to replace an ageing fleet and be used for the 2018 Gold Coast Commonwealth Games."

They have legal certainty from their own legal sources.  These say, with all legal certainty, that the NGR trains are built to a design that does not comply with the law.  The advice is unequivocal.

And then we have these words:

"A key object of the DDA is to "eliminate, as far as possible, discrimination against persons on the ground of disability" in, among other things, the provision of goods, facilities and services. This is also reflected in the purpose set out in section 1.2 of the DSAPT.

"This requirement means that discrimination should be eliminated "as far as possible", with the necessary implication that it may not be reasonable to immediately or completely eliminate discrimination in every instance."

TMR/QR are laying the groundwork whereby they intend to "not completely" meet the requirements of the DDA.

And here we have the get-out clause again:

"With the NGR fleet as constructed, an appropriate lead-in time is required to remedy areas of noncompliance with the DSAPT (as far as possible). This can only be achieved by the temporary exemptions being granted."

There is definitely a culture that runs through DTMR and TransLink that is dictatorial, authoritarian and very much ' our view is the right view '.   Projecting that onto the AHRC I would suggest is a grave error of judgement.  Time will tell.

We will be putting a submission into the AHRC re the temporary exemption application  early January in time for the cut off.  I intend to enjoy my week on Transperth/TransWA and then to Melbourne  and on the trains and trams there first.  So much happening elsewhere.  It really does make our setup look very ramshackle sadly. 
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

#Metro

#2231
"QR said there was no figure on the total number of staff"

Really? Any HR Department anywhere will know that before you hire people, you budget for their labour costs and other overheads and perks like
super contributions.

Are they suggesting that they just spend first, budget later? Rubbish.

"There isn't a figure" Huh??

And QR is just going to have their service contract renewed again?

I will give you an estimated figure:

$70 000 x 21 = $1.4 million p.a. is the ballpark.

You will probably need more than 21, depending on how many stations the NGRs will stop at and whether the staff are based on the train (3 staff per train) or based on the platform.

Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

ozbob

Based on the article above there will need to be 100s of additional staff as NGRs spread out to all lines.

Very high ongoing labour costs will work against service frequency increases sadly. 
Queensland Rail is already very expensive to operate, just kicked up  another cog or two.
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

Stillwater

The madness continues, resulting in a particularly goofy 'Queensland solution' (employment of extra assistance staff).

The submission to the AHRC states quite clearly that:

- the NGR trains WILL go into passenger service, the AHRC proceedings not withstanding
- Queensland proposes the MINIMAL fix

Meanwhile the objective of 75 new trains with accessible toilets has gone out the window.  Approximately half the fleet will have toilets - and that will be the case for the next 30 years.

And in another 'Queensland fix' the scrapping of toilets to get right the remaining toilets at a cost of $150m will be achieved by rejigging the budget - so as not to attract the attention of the Auditor-General.

This is poor governance.

Cazza

First revenue train expected to depart Varsity Lakes at 6:25 tomorrow morning, arriving at Central at around 7:45am.

Arnz

Quote from: #Metro on December 10, 2017, 09:00:54 AMI will give you an estimated figure:

$70 000 x 21 = $1.4 million p.a. is the ballpark.

You will probably need more than 21, depending on how many stations the NGRs will stop at and whether the staff are based on the train (3 staff per train) or based on the platform.

Easier solution - give the QR Authorised Officers a job to do by having them man the NGR trains in the short term (hiring more internally or externally if need be) It's a good altentative rather than having the QR officers stand there at Central or Roma Street in between jobs waiting to accompany the QPS rail Squad and/or TransLink SNOs on revenue protection.

Handing the NGR customer patrol job to the QR AOs leaves the revenue protection entirely to Rail Squad and the TransLink Senior Network Officers.
Rgds,
Arnz

Unless stated otherwise, Opinions stated in my posts are those of my own view only.

ozbob

Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

ozbob

#2237
A brief NGR summary.

Project was commenced under the Bligh ALP Govt.

The Newman LNP Government decided to order trains from Bombardier 2013 complete overseas build. Local manufacturers declined to tender. Unfortunately the design Bombardier was given to build was non DDA nor DSAPT compliant and was in a DOO configuration.  No reference was made to the QR cab committee during the design stage.

Feb 2016 first NGR trains arrive.  It was to become clear that the  driver cabs had issues, and the trains were non compliant. Other technical issues with the trains.

NGR trains commence track testing midyear 2016.

Disability sector made constant representations re DDA compliance issues.  Progress appeared to be limited until IM went public Mar 2017.

Importation of NGR trains suspended.

A DDA compliance plan developed and finally put to the AHRC Sept 2017.  Still waiting for that outcome of that temporary exemption application.

Train import suspension lifted a few months ago. As far as we are aware the 21 NGRs presently in Quensland and 4 on the water are still non DDA compliant although the new ones do have improved cabs I understand.

A DDA rectification plan was costed at $100 million or thereabouts.  And because it is too costly to fix the non compliant passageway connection between cars 3 and 4, it was decided to change the NGRs to 35 6 car trains with two toilets, the remaining 40 6 car trains  to be non toilet equipped. (Initial design plan was for the 75 6 car trains to each have a single toilet). Toilets will be modified to make them compliant for the sets with the two toilets.  SEQ rail is stuck with more toilet-less trains for another 30 years plus.

Guards will be located in the trailing driver cabs.  This presents some issues for assisted boarding.  The solution is additional station staff. 21 additional staff have been employed to support the initial NGR introduction.

The State of Queensland (DTMR/QR) has decided to not wait for the temporary exemption application outcome at AHRC and will commence revenue service of NGR trains on Monday 11th December 2017.  There are serious legal risks in doing this under the DDA and DSAPT.

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/939735017055387649





Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

ozbob

Days since NGR 701 towed to Wulkuraka

Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

Stillwater

Meanwhile, QR peddles the bulls*-t:

"People with disabilities are entitled to the same rights, responsibilities and opportunities as other people. Queensland Rail understands the connective role it plays in peoples' lives and is committed to improving access to its passenger rail services.

"At Queensland Rail, we strive to promote accessibility for all members of the community. We do this by working with our customers to remove barriers and pioneer solutions that support inclusive communities.

"As a public transport operator, Queensland Rail's obligations under the DDA are specified in the Disability Standards for Accessible Public Transport 2002 (Transport Standards) and the Disability (Access to Premises – Buildings) Standards 2010 (Premises Standards). Both the Transport and Premises Standards (collectively referred to as the Disability Standards) stipulate minimum requirements for the provision of accessible transport premises, services and facilities. Many of the standards rely on Australian Standards in setting out the requirements.

"All new services coming into operation after October 2002 must be fully compliant."

AND (cough, cough)

"Where practicable, Queensland Rail has adopted the most up-to-date Australian Standards to provide a higher level of access than the minimum requirements. The up-to-date Australian Standards reflect improved application and understanding of the needs of customers with disabilities and this approach assists Queensland Rail in creating a more sustainable rail environment capable of responding to changing circumstances and local community needs.

"Our program of work continues to be shaped by the voice of our customers. We are committed to capturing their feedback about accessibility issues and considering different perspectives.
"Infrastructure upgrades to stations and train overhauls remain the major focus for improving existing service accessibility. Providing an accessible network for a wide range of customers will be central to our decision making process."

Do you believe it?  QR wants you to ... simply because they have said it.

🡱 🡳