New Generation Rollingstock

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

1st December 2017

Time to act decisively to fix public transport for SEQ

Good Morning,

More confirmation of the utter shambles the transport network is becoming in SEQ.
Couriermail --> Brisbane traffic problems as bad as Sydney's, says Uber data

" ... Big-ticket projects such as the $5.4 billion Cross River Rail public transport system and improvements to the Gateway and Logan Motorways were necessary. But by using data more cleverly, lots of smaller enhancements could be made across the city. ... "

Fortunately it does appear that Cross River Rail will continue.  It is fundamental that the public transport be improved to help improve transport options for citizens.  We need roads of course, but we need to sort out our rail and bus networks particularly.

It is now  427 days since the first wave of cancellations associated with rail fail (30 September 2016). Seriously, how much longer can this circus continue? Aggressive attempts must be made now to get rail services back to an acceptable frequency.  The present reduced service timetables are forcing more and more onto the already overloaded and congested roads. No doubt there will be even more hard service reductions over the Summer Holiday period compounding the perception of a failed network.  The Commonwealth Games public transport for the overall network is looking rather shambolic sadly.

The New Generation Rollingstock trains are still not in passenger revenue service after 650 days since the first unit was towed out to the Wulkuraka Maintenance Centre.  DDA and DSAPT non compliant trains are still being imported!

Snap out of it!

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/936270251481853952

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/936280845869920256

[Stillwater]

The failure to forward additional, requested information to the AHRC mirrors the situation in which additional information regarding the CRR project was not forwarded to IA in order for an assessment of the CRR Business Case to be completed.  The bullying, bluff and bluster applied to IA in order to give a favourable assessment won't work with the Human Rights Commission.

Is Paul Pluta correct in stating that Simon Cook was responsible for the application to the AHRC?

[ozbob]

The failure to forward additional, requested information to the AHRC mirrors the situation in which additional information regarding the CRR project was not forwarded to IA in order for an assessment of the CRR Business Case to be completed.  The bullying, bluff and bluster applied to IA in order to give a favourable assessment won't work with the Human Rights Commission.

Is Paul Pluta correct in stating that Simon Cook was responsible for the application to the AHRC?

I understand it is a joint application, DTMR and Queensland Rail.  Technically it is the operator that is meant to make the application I have been informed.

[InclusionMoves]

Technically yes should be the operator. Was in reality a joint application from DTMR and QR though they used state of Queensland. Guessing to show statewide significance of GC2018. Can't confirm who was tasked with application carriage but Mr Cook was lead negotiator so makes sense.

The failure to forward additional, requested information to the AHRC mirrors the situation in which additional information regarding the CRR project was not forwarded to IA in order for an assessment of the CRR Business Case to be completed.  The bullying, bluff and bluster applied to IA in order to give a favourable assessment won't work with the Human Rights Commission.

Is Paul Pluta correct in stating that Simon Cook was responsible for the application to the AHRC?

I understand it is a joint application, DTMR and Queensland Rail.  Technically it is the operator that is meant to make the application I have been informed.

[ozbob]

Personally, I think it is time Mr Cook and Mr Scales were on a ferry cross the Mersey ..
#justsaying

[ozbob]

Letter to Editor Queensland Times 2nd December 2017 page 21

Transport network is now a shambles

THERE is more confirmation of the utter shambles the transport network is becoming in southeast Queensland.

Uber data has revealed Brisbane's traffic problems are as bad as Sydney's.

Fortunately it appears Cross River Rail will continue. It is fundamental public transport be improved to help with transport options for citizens. We need roads of course, but we need to sort out our rail and bus networks particularly.

It is now 427 days since the first wave of cancellations associated with rail fail (September 30, 2016).

Seriously, how much longer can this circus continue?

Aggressive attempts must be made now to get rail services back to an acceptable frequency.

The present reduced service timetables are forcing more and more onto the already overloaded and congested roads.

No doubt there will be more hard service reductions over the summer holiday period and this will compound the perception of a failed network.

The Commonwealth Games public transport for the overall network looks rather shambolic, sadly.

The New Generation Rollingstock trains are still not in passenger revenue service after 650 days since the first unit was towed out to the Wulkuraka Maintenance Centre.

Robert Dow
RAIL Back On Track

[Stillwater]

lol @ Ferry 'Cross The Mersey 

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/937369871377080320

[ozbob]

https://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-work/legal/exemptions/exemption-applications-under-disability-discrimination-act-1992-cth#current

Consultation period has begun.

================================

On 18 October 2017, the Commission sought further information from the State of Queensland and Queensland Rail regarding the joint application. The applicant's response, and the annexures to that response, can be found below:

Public Version - New Generation Rollingstock Project - Joint Response to Request for Further Information - 28 November 2017 .pdf

Public Annexures.zip

The Commission is now interested in receiving submissions from interested people and parties about whether these temporary exemptions should be granted.

Submissions in response to this application are sought by Monday, 15 January 2018. Submissions should preferably be made in electronic format, and emailed to legal@humanrights.gov.au.

It will assist the Commission if submissions could address all, or some, of the following issues:

• What are the reasons in favour of granting an exemption?
• What will be the impact on individuals and others on the particular exemptions sought under sections 2.6, 2.8(1), 8.2, 15.3, 15.4(1)(a) and 15.4(1)(b) of the DSAPT?
• What is your view regarding the applicants' submission that the post-rectified trains will ultimately have accessibility improvements that will exceed the requirements of the DSAPT?
• In the event any of the exemptions sought are granted, should any conditions be imposed on the granting of an exemption in this matter?

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/937563922248318977

[red dragin]

Interesting how the outline of the person in the wheelchair, is smaller than the 'box' that they are meant to represent, even in the modified design (Annexure H). Not deceptive at all.....

Also noted in Annexure H, the space between the toilet and the sink is 1100mm, but the wheelchair 'box' is 1300mm long. Is that something that needs to be considered in all of this, or does an angled approach to the sink negate that requirement?

[SurfRail]

I think we should put in a collective submission as a group.

My suggestion is that we push for commitment to install toilets in every train being procured.  Probably won't go anywhere, but given the routes these things will be used on it is ludicrous to plan otherwise.  A Caboolture to Ipswich trip can be longer than an Airport to Gold Coast trip for starters.

[ozbob]

I have thought a lot about this.  Would prefer if we make individual submissions, for those so motivated.

The disability sector is well resourced and has all the facts at hand.  They will be making high level submissions.

We as individuals have slightly different viewpoints on the NGRs.  Some support a temporary exemption, others do not.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/InclusionMoves/status/937579965360488449

[ozbob]

If you are writing a submission note particularly the following:

Submissions in response to this application are sought by Monday, 15 January 2018. Submissions should preferably be made in electronic format, and emailed to legal@humanrights.gov.au.

It will assist the Commission if submissions could address all, or some, of the following issues:

• What are the reasons in favour of granting an exemption?
• What will be the impact on individuals and others on the particular exemptions sought under sections 2.6, 2.8(1), 8.2, 15.3, 15.4(1)(a) and 15.4(1)(b) of the DSAPT?
• What is your view regarding the applicants' submission that the post-rectified trains will ultimately have accessibility improvements that will exceed the requirements of the DSAPT?
• In the event any of the exemptions sought are granted, should any conditions be imposed on the granting of an exemption in this matter?

[InclusionMoves]

Thanks for the support guys and girls.

Fully support and welcome submissions from all. Completely understand that RBOT is a broad church with many views. You have the full suite of rail issues to worry about where we are focused on inclusive travel. Totally understandable there may be some disagreement in how things roll out.

My big push in all of this is to avoid a repeat. Hence regardless of anything to do with AHRC I am absolutely supportive of much of the great work you are pushing for with a Qld public transport provider and an inquiry to ensure there is no repeat of past mistakes.

I won't say any more at this stage other than to thank everyone again as I have some reading ahead of me,

Cheers
Geoff

I have thought a lot about this.  Would prefer if we make individual submissions, for those so motivated.

The disability sector is well resourced and has all the facts at hand.  They will be making high level submissions.

We as individuals have slightly different viewpoints on the NGRs.  Some support a temporary exemption, others do not.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

4th December 2017

NGR trains - submissions now invited by AHRC

Greetings,

The Australian Human Rights Commission has updated their website today with respect to the State of Queensland temporary exemption application for the non compliant New Generation Rollingstock (NGR) trains ( http://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-work/legal/exemptions/exemption-applications-under-disability-discrimination-act-1992-cth ).

It would appear that some of the further information requested has been received and submissions are now invited with a closing date of 15th January 2018.

https://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-work/legal/exemptions/exemption-applications-under-disability-discrimination-act-1992-cth#current

Consultation period has begun.

================================

On 18 October 2017, the Commission sought further information from the State of Queensland and Queensland Rail regarding the joint application. The applicant's response, and the annexures to that response, can be found below:

Public Version - New Generation Rollingstock Project - Joint Response to Request for Further Information - 28 November 2017 .pdf

Public Annexures.zip

The Commission is now interested in receiving submissions from interested people and parties about whether these temporary exemptions should be granted.

Submissions in response to this application are sought by Monday, 15 January 2018. Submissions should preferably be made in electronic format, and emailed to legal@humanrights.gov.au.

It will assist the Commission if submissions could address all, or some, of the following issues:

• What are the reasons in favour of granting an exemption?
• What will be the impact on individuals and others on the particular exemptions sought under sections 2.6, 2.8(1), 8.2, 15.3, 15.4(1)(a) and 15.4(1)(b) of the DSAPT?
• What is your view regarding the applicants' submission that the post-rectified trains will ultimately have accessibility improvements that will exceed the requirements of the DSAPT?
• In the event any of the exemptions sought are granted, should any conditions be imposed on the granting of an exemption in this matter?

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

30th November 2017

Not Going Right ( NGR ) trains - slow motion

Good Morning,

We note that the Australian Human Rights Commission has not updated their web site with respect to the State of Queensland temporary exemption application for the non compliant New Generation Rollingstock (NGR) trains ( http://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-work/legal/exemptions/exemption-applications-under-disability-discrimination-act-1992-cth ).  The Commission requested further information many weeks ago now.  Until the requested further information is received we understand that the AHRC cannot commence the public consultation process.  A process we understand will take at least 4 weeks, possibly longer now because of the Christmas New Year holidays. At the completion of the public consultation process the AHRC will have to consider any public submissions and then finally make their determination with respect to the application. This could take many months yet.

We also understand a further two new NGR trains were moved to Wulkuraka yesterday.  This makes a total of 19 NGR trains now in Queensland, and still they are not in passenger revenue service. Are the recently arrived NGR trains still DDA DSAPT non compliant?

It is looking grim for the future rail timetable for SEQ, particularly during the Commonwealth Games.  Will there be line closures?  Where are the proposed timetables, not only for the Commonwealth Games but the looming Summer School Holiday period.  We expect there will be the now usual savage service reductions.  Stamping SEQ as a failed public transport jurisdiction. Rail fail is not yet over by a long shot.

We do earnestly hope that the incoming State Government will remove the administration and delivery of public transport in Queensland from DTMR and set up a proper independent statutory authority - for example Public Transport Queensland.  How much more proof of failure of the existing structures is needed?

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/937589739481214976

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/937595933834993664

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/937723179333591040

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/937724982032965632

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/937726603685011461

[#Metro]

Hi, there is a story up at BT that says NGRs will be put on the GC airport line in the coming weeks. I assume that will be sans HRC approval?? A daring move if true.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Less frequent train services planned for festive month

Trains will run less frequently for 35 days over the summer holiday season to manage a "stress point" on the network.

Queensland Rail has regularly introduced scaled-back timetables during school holidays, following mass cancellations plagued the network after the opening of the Redcliffe Peninsula Line in October 2016.

From Monday, December 18 to Sunday, January 21, the QR summer timetable will include 15-minute or better frequency on most lines during peak periods and every 30 minutes during off-peak and weekends.

From December 23 to 26, and December 30 to January 1, hourly services will operate on most lines.

On New Year's Eve, hourly services will run on most lines up until 5pm, when services will start running half-hourly, with additional services to manage crowds leaving South Brisbane and South Bank stations following the 8pm and midnight fireworks.

However, the Sunshine Coast, Doomben and Rosewood lines will have less frequent services.

QR chief executive Nick Easy said as the operator continued to work to recruit and train more drivers and guards, timetable sustainability assessments had identified the summer holiday period as a "stress point" that required proactive management.

"That's why we've proactively planned for these service changes, to ensure we're providing a reliable service for our customers during the summer holidays, and effectively deploying our resources to meet reduced demand," he said.

Mr Easy said the service planning team had listened to feedback during the summer service changes last year, and introduced an extra 90 services into this year's summer timetable compared with the 2016 summer timetable.

"Including an extra 15 daily morning peak services targeted to meet demand," he said.

Services will also remain consistent between Monday to Friday, so passengers do not have to work out different timetables on a Friday.

"The summer service changes also utilise less three-carriage services, maintain bus connectivity and introduce consistent clock-face departure times, to make our services easier for customers to catch," he said.

Mr Easy said during the summer festive season, the network experienced a 25 per cent drop in patronage.

"Trains will run every 15 minutes or better on most lines during peak times, with trains every 30 minutes in off-peak and weekends," Mr Easy said.

Meanwhile, a TransLink spokesman said the much-delayed New Generation Rollingstock trains would start passenger services on the Gold Coast and Airport lines in coming weeks.

"Additional heavy rail services will operate on the Gold Coast line to support the 2018 Gold Coast Commonwealth Games during peak spectator travel periods," he said.

"The number of NGR trains available for this is dependent on timetable requirements, as well as the number of trains that have passed rigorous safety testing and have been accepted by the state."

In September, Deputy Premier Jackie Trad announced the government would officially "accept" the first of the NGR trains, about two years after they arrived in the country, with the expectation they could be used by commuters in November or December.

The rollout was delayed after the discovery of significant issues, such as problems with braking, air-conditioning, ventilation and disability access.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

6th December 2017

NGR PWD trial today

Good Morning,

An interesting comment in an article at Brisbanetimes this morning:

Brisbanetimes --> Less frequent train services planned for festive month

" ... Meanwhile, a TransLink spokesman said the much-delayed New Generation Rollingstock trains would start passenger services on the Gold Coast and Airport lines in coming weeks.

"Additional heavy rail services will operate on the Gold Coast line to support the 2018 Gold Coast Commonwealth Games during peak spectator travel periods," he said.

"The number of NGR trains available for this is dependent on timetable requirements, as well as the number of trains that have passed rigorous safety testing and have been accepted by the state."

In September, Deputy Premier Jackie Trad announced the government would officially "accept" the first of the NGR trains, about two years after they arrived in the country, with the expectation they could be used by commuters in November or December.

The roll out was delayed after the discovery of significant issues, such as problems with braking, air-conditioning, ventilation and disability access. "

In the coming weeks? The submission period for feedback on the temporary application at AHRC closes on the 15th January 2018.  We would reasonably expect there would then be a period for any public submissions to be considered and then the AHRC to make their determination on the outcome of the application.  Coming weeks? More like coming months ..

We understand there is a trial today with a number of PWD and a NGR train to assess how the boarding assistance will operate.  We also understand that AHRC personnel will also be in attendance to observe.  Better late than never is our view.  But it really does beg the question why has it taken years for DTMR to accept and finally work proactively in getting the non DDA and non DSAPT compliant NGR trains finally, hopefully into revenue service?  It is now 655 days since the first NGR train was towed to the Wulkuraka Maintenance Centre. There really needs to be a proper Commission of Inquiry into this mega project failure.

It is difficult take anything that TransLink or DTMR states seriously says these days.  It is usually cover for their dismal performance.  In our view the sooner the administration and delivery of public transport is moved to a stand alone statutory authority  - Public Transport Queensland, free of the bumbling incompetence at DTMR and TransLink the better for Queensland.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

[ Attached: https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3706.msg201318#msg201318 ]

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/938084429011959809

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/938093723451133952

https://twitter.com/InclusionMoves/status/938132071599325184

[Stillwater]

What arrogance! Announcing that NGR trains will be in service 'within weeks', thereby pre-empting any decision that might be made by the Australian Human Rights Commission.  This shows that TMR/QR regards the exemption application process as a mere formality and seeks to belittle the role the AHRC plays.

Queensland transport agencies haven't learned anything from the mess that was the application to the feds for funding of CRR.  They go through the motions as though a properly prepared business case for that project has little value and they do stuff like demanding an answer 24 hours after it is lodged with Canberra.

This latest contempt for the AHRC smacks of a 'just get on with it' attitude with TMR/QR towards the AHRC.

They may be in for a rude shock.

[BrizCommuter]

I think we should put in a collective submission as a group.

My suggestion is that we push for commitment to install toilets in every train being procured.  Probably won't go anywhere, but given the routes these things will be used on it is ludicrous to plan otherwise.  A Caboolture to Ipswich trip can be longer than an Airport to Gold Coast trip for starters.

I agree on the toilets on all trains as originally planned. The legacy of another 40 years with no toilets on 1 hour suburban journeys is totally unacceptable to many demographics. Both increasing toilet space, and having toilets on all trains is a requirement.

Looks like we won't be seeing NGR is service until well into the new year.

[ozbob]

What arrogance! Announcing that NGR trains will be in service 'within weeks', thereby pre-empting any decision that might be made by the Australian Human Rights Commission.  This shows that TMR/QR regards the exemption application process as a mere formality and seeks to belittle the role the AHRC plays.

Queensland transport agencies haven't learned anything from the mess that was the application to the feds for funding of CRR.  They go through the motions as though a properly prepared business case for that project has little value and they do stuff like demanding an answer 24 hours after it is lodged with Canberra.

This latest contempt for the AHRC smacks of a 'just get on with it' attitude with TMR/QR towards the AHRC.

They may be in for a rude shock.

Well said Mr Stillwater.   Incompetence, bumble and a lack of decisive leadership has its costs. 

#headsmustroll

[ozbob]

Days since NGR 701 towed to Wulkuraka

[Stillwater]

^ With BrizCommuter.  Should Queensland get an exemption from AHRC, the state will assume the current botched standard becomes the default standard for this type of train set.  It is possible to envisage that Queensland might order new NGR trains to the same inadequate design and tell the AHRC: "Well, you accepted inferior DDA standards for toilets and walkways on the first lot, why not this new batch of trains?"  Then the pollies will get involved, accusing AHRC of 'double standards' and similar crap.  Calls for Human Rights Commissioners to stand down etc.  All because a state wants to thumb its nose at the rules.

This isn't just about wheelchair access either. Have you seen the size of strollers/prams these days?

[#Metro]

It seems only legitimate that any exemption only apply to trains that are already in Australia and accepted.

It does not make sense to also exempt trains that form the rest of the order but are yet to be manufactured.

That would be actively manufacturing trains not compliant with the standard, with the intent not to comply with it.

[InclusionMoves]

Thanks for the support guys. Disability sector owes you all a beer. Remember regardless of the details of the particular legislation ignored the big picture context is stopping the state from ignorance of ANY customer need. That has real world implications for every passenger. The arrogance that they know best needs to stop.

Geoff

[ozbob]

Not withstanding the previous legal advice,  sources have indicated that NGRs will be running from the 11th Dec 2017.

Apparently they will disregard the advice outlined below

14 Nov 2017 Couriermail Queensland Rail trains on track for legal disaster

QUEENSLAND Rail was warned by its lawyers that its troubled $4.4 billion NGR train fleet could expose taxpayers to massive legal claims of discrimination if they were used before serious problems were fixed.

The legal advice, viewed by The Courier-Mail, was issued in September and warned the Palaszczuk Government faced a court challenge that could block the new trains from entering service.

Problems include aisles and on-board toilets that are inaccessible to disabled passengers.

In the letter, QR is advised to seek an urgent exemption from disability access laws to guard against any discrimination action.

It says a decision on whether to grant the New Generation Rollingstock trains provisional acceptance was "critical" as it was from this point that legal action could be taken and would also put its indemnity with the company behind the project at risk under its contract.

"The principal risk of non-compliance for Queensland Rail and the State is the risk of claims, particularly injunctive proceedings, brought by affected individuals or representative interest groups," the letter states.

"This risk will crystallise if non-compliant (trains) are operated in passenger service.

"There is also an earlier risk of injunctive action to the extent a court accepts QR or the State intends to operate non-compliant (trains) in passenger service (ie even if has not already done so)."

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/938221431334170624

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/TransLinkSEQ/status/938221456764399616

[tazzer9]

I agree on the toilets on all trains as originally planned. The legacy of another 40 years with no toilets on 1 hour suburban journeys is totally unacceptable to many demographics. Both increasing toilet space, and having toilets on all trains is a requirement.

Looks like we won't be seeing NGR is service until well into the new year.
[/quote]
Toilets should be on all trains.   Each Train is only at capacity at the very most, 2x per day.  The space isn't needed for passengers.  We should be looking at increasing comfort.   Even install water fountains. 

[Derwan]

Are these ones without toilets?  Is that why they can be introduced?  Is it only the ones with the toilets that require the exemption?

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

6th December 2017

NGRs to commence revenue service 11 Dec 2017

Greetings,

Been advised that the New Generation Rollingstock trains are to commence revenue passenger service on the 11 Dec 2017.

This is despite the temporary application for an exemption because of their non compliance with the DDA and DSAPT not yet finalised.
http://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-work/legal/exemptions/exemption-applications-under-disability-discrimination-act-1992-cth

I think this just reflects the wider attitudes in Queensland towards DDA and DSAPT compliance.  Other recent examples include partial platform raising,  and constructing a new non compliant footbridge at Banyo railway station.

Previous legal advice suggested that there are risks proceeding without an exemption.
14 Nov 2017 Couriermail Queensland Rail trains on track for legal disaster

Translink has tweeted that the trains are ' ready to roll-out onto the Gold Coast/Airport lines '.
https://twitter.com/TransLinkSEQ/status/938221456764399616

The NGRs might look pretty but they are still not compliant and there is no exemption. They might be ' ready to roll-out ' in some minds but reality is they are not.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

Are these ones without toilets?  Is that why they can be introduced?  Is it only the ones with the toilets that require the exemption?

No.  All NGRs presently in country are non-compliant and with a toilet.

[BrizCommuter]

Anyone going to travel on that inaugural service in a wheelchair, try to use toilet, get stuck, and sue?

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/938230594483261440