New Generation Rollingstock

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

9th November 2017

New Generation Rollingstock Project - more fixing the trains costs ..

Good Morning,

More confirmation of the cost of rectification of the non DDA DSAPT compliance and rather fundamental design errors with the Not Going Right (NGR) trains this morning in the Couriermail.

" MORE than $150 million worth of modification work needed on the state's troubled new train fleet will be funnelled to a Maryborough firm as Labor fights to keep the marginal seat at the November 25 election. "

Labor to give $150m train upgrade work to Maryborough firm Downer

By the way, we reckon the introduction of the Not Going Right trains into revenue service is still months away at the earliest.

We are hearing that there will probably be line closures during the Commonwealth Games to provide enough resources to boost the Gold Coast line service frequency, a fact previously denied in the Queensland Parliament. Wonderful hey?  A disconnected, dysfunctional public transport network!

Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

8th November 2017

Re: New Generation Rollingstock Project - cannot hide the truth

Good Morning,

While waiting to pick up my grand-daughter from Prep at School at Corinda yesterday afternoon I noted a NGR train heading UP (outbound) at Corinda.

They are certainly a slick looking train.  It is a pity that their acquisition is so checkered and compromised by failure.

The community at large is thirsting for accurate information on the botched NGR project.  The public see the trains out testing but still not in passenger revenue service, months and months on.

Our post yesterday re NGR on Facebook has had a very strong response.
( https://www.facebook.com/RAILBackOnTrack/posts/1836183213062524 ).
As I write this 6,268 people have been reached, with 76 shares.  This is a sign that people want the truth not confected spin and deceit from the Government, Opposition and DTMR.  Happy we can oblige in helping spread the truth.

There is still no change at the Australian Human Rights Commission web site with respect to the application for a temporary exemption for the non DDA and DSAPT compliant NGR trains.
( http://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-work/legal/exemptions/exemption-applications-under-disability-discrimination-act-1992-cth )

It is now 627 days since the first NGR train was towed to Wulkuraka.  They are still not in passenger revenue service.  This startling  and alarming fact is a measure of the seriousness of this project failure.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

[ Attached: https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3706.msg200138#msg200138  ]

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/928309572854464512

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/928311624015888384

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/928313539483205634

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Queensland Election 2017: Labor to give $150m train upgrade work to Maryborough firm Downer

MORE than $150 million worth of modification work needed on the state's troubled new train fleet will be funnelled to a Maryborough firm as Labor fights to keep the marginal seat at the November 25 election.

Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk and Transport Minister Jackie Trad will travel to the Wide Bay area Thursday to announce Maryborough firm Downer will be handed the contract to undertake the new generation rollingstock work should Labor win a second term in office.

Labor's Bruce Saunders holds the seat with a margin of just 1.1 per cent and is facing a fight to hold on the electorate against a resurgent One Nation.

The "Save Bruce Strategy" brings to more than $350 million the amount of State Government work promised to the manufacturing company, one of Maryborough's largest employers, in less than two years.

The company was handed more than $70 million in modification work in September as part of a $200 million slice of a $400 million Queensland Rail contract.

The modification work includes at least $100 million to fix disability access problems and $50 million to change the placement of train guards.

Train manufacturer Bombardier is understood to have been asked to work with Downer on the modifications with the two firms previously engaged in work together.

Instead of a tender process the firm will be asked to undertake an open book audit.

Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk took a swipe at the former Newman government's decision to hand the original contract to Bombardier to build the new fleet of trains in India in announcing the new work for Downer.

"When he was Campbell Newman's treasurer, Tim Nicholls signed the contract for these new trains to be built in India and for jobs to go overseas, but under Labor these trains will be fixed in Queensland by Queenslanders," she said.

"We'll require that this work is done in Maryborough because my government believes that jobs should stay in Queensland and not go overseas – that's why we introduced our Buy Queensland policy"

Ms Trad said the bill for the modifications would be covered within the NGR budget.

"Bombardier and Downer have been in discussions on the modifications to the NGR trains and Downer has responded with a willingness to undertake the work locally," she said.

"Downer wants to do this work in Maryborough and a re-elected Palaszczuk Government will make sure that happens."

She said the firm would, however, need to be subject to an open book audit "so that we ensure value for money for the taxpayers".

The ALP needs to hold on to seats like Maryborough if it has any hope of gaining the 47 seats it needs to govern in its own right in the new Parliament.

Fraser Coast councillor James Hansen is running for One Nation against Mr Saunders while Maryborough Chamber of Commerce vice-president Richard Kingston is running for the LNP.

Wide Bay Conservation Council member Roger Currie has put his hand to run as an independent in the seat as well alongside Greens candidate Craig Armstrong.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Shorten to join Premier as ALP asks Queensland firm to fix trains

Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk is expected to funnel more than $150 million worth of work to fix Queensland's new generation of commuter trains to a Maryborough firm in one of Labor's marginal seats.

Ms Palaszczuk will travel to the Wide Bay region to announce Maryborough firm Downer will get the work if Labor wins a second term on November 25, News Corp reports.

Federal Labor leader Bill Shorten is expected to join the Premier on the campaign trail, with Ms Palaszczuk also expected to make an announcement aimed at shoring up domestic gas supplies.

Labor's Bruce Saunders holds the seat of Maryborough with a 1.1 per cent margin.

Ms Palaszczuk has savaged the LNP, which did the deal with Canadia-owned Bombardier to manufacture the trains in India, saying it lumbered the state with problem-plagued rollingstock.

But she says she'll turn the blunder into jobs for regional Queensland.

"When he was Campbell Newman's treasurer, Tim Nicholls signed the contract for these new trains to be built in India and for jobs to go overseas, but under Labor these trains will be fixed in Queensland by Queenslanders," she said.

"We'll require that this work is done in Maryborough because my government believes that jobs should stay in Queensland and not go overseas."

Opposition leader Tim Nicholls is expected to head to the Gold Coast on Thursday, while One Nation leader Pauline Hanson will head further north on her battler bus road trip, bound for Mackay, and then Bowen.

[#Metro]

I thought the original estimate was $100 million.

It is now $150 million.

[ozbob]

I thought the original estimate was $100 million.

It is now $150 million.

It was a $100 million for the DDA DSAPT fixes and $50 million for the other fixes eg. cab mods etc.

[Stillwater]

I wonder to what extent the delays in fixing the problems were caused by arranging a deal for this work to be done by Downer at Maryborough, while the original botched contract was carried out by Bombardier.

[#Metro]

"When he was Campbell Newman's treasurer, Tim Nicholls signed the contract for these new trains to be built in India and for jobs to go overseas, but under Labor these trains will be fixed in Queensland by Queenslanders," she said.

"We'll require that this work is done in Maryborough because my government believes that jobs should stay in Queensland and not go overseas – that's why we introduced our Buy Queensland policy"

I get bothered by this concept of "magical transfer" or impartation of workers nationality or national location into what is essentially an

inanimate object that will function pretty much anywhere in the world, regardless of source. Trains are built to specification.

Trains on the Dehli metro are DDA compliant. As are the Gold Coast light rail trains that were manufactured overseas.

What we have in Queensland are three political parties, two of which are trying to be Pauline Hanson One Nation copycats.

The trains are Lemon because the government specified that it wanted Lemons. Nothing to do with "India".

[ozbob]

The real issue is the failure to acknowledge the non compliance and late application for exemption. It is almost like they are trying to force the AHRC to roll over.

Watch this space!

[Stillwater]

They were hoping the AHRC would roll over.  Compliance with the DDA was the last option on the list.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/fel_caldwell/status/928431687846920192

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/sarahelks/status/928432089174720512

[ozbob]

ABC --> Queensland election: Labor promises to have problematic Indian trains fixed in Maryborough

Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk has pledged to fix issues with dozens of new-generation trains in Maryborough if re-elected to Government.

While touring the Downer rail manufacturing plant this morning, the Labor leader promised to spend $150 million to modify about 35 of the new trains which are being manufactured in India by Bombardier.

The trains are more than 18 months late, and need significant modification to be able to operate properly including braking, air-conditioning, ventilation, sightlines for train drivers, and disability access.

"We will continue to deliver to you. We will fix the trains here in Maryborough, and we will ensure that any future trains built in Queensland are built here at Downer in Maryborough," she said.

"This is great news for the workers ... and what the apprentices are telling me is that this gives them long-term job security into the future."

The Newman government ordered the trains from the Bombardier-led consortium called Qtectic in January 2014, saying at the time they were coming in at half the price the previous government paid for rollingstock.

The LNP confirmed previously that government ministers Scott Emerson and Tim Nicholls accepted they were ultimately responsible for the project at the time, but said the project changed under Labor.

"Contracts were signed by the Newman government when Tim Nicholls was Treasurer, and now we're fixing their mess," Ms Palaszczuk said.

Deputy Premier Jackie Trad said it would take between 18 months to two years for the rectification work and that temporary fixes would be put in place to get some of them on track in time for the Commonwealth Games.

"It means long-term sustainable jobs in this community, and it means more apprentices, and apprentices fulfilling all of their apprenticeships right here in Maryborough," she said.

Local ALP MP Bruce Saunders, who holds the seat of Maryborough by a margin of just 1.1 per cent, said it was a shot in the arm for the manufacturing sector.

LNP leader Tim Nicholls said Labor seemed to be singling out the Indian manufacturing for criticism.

"It's the Labor Party who are identifying that these trains are being built by Bombardier in part in India and seem to be identifying them being built in India as the problem," Mr Nicholls said.

"Parts of the trains are being built in Canada and Germany and other places but it certainly seems to be the case that the Labor Party seems to be suggesting that there's something wrong with the manufacturing taking place in India."

But the LNP also had some explaining to do, after sending voters a letter which accuses Labor of supporting "attacks on traditional Australian values and our way of life by minority groups who think it's their right to tell you what to think."

Mr Nicholls made no apology for the language in the letter.

"We're all pretty sick and tired of the nanny state which is fostered by the Labor Party that tells us when we should and shouldn't have Australia Day," he said.

We know they find a home in certain sections of the Labor Party."

The LNP also wants the ride to work to be faster for motorists on the M1 and has promised $100 million to upgrade four exits.

"Unfortunately all too often for people here on the northern Gold Coast, they're stuck in traffic. And they're stuck getting on and off the on ramps here on the M1," Mr Nicholls said.

[BrizCommuter]

Future trains to be built in Maryborough? Have you heard about tender processes Anna?

Lack of follow on orders of NGRs will result in a shortage of trains (again) limiting optimal use of the existing train network in the early 2020s.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Question remains over Commonwealth Games trains

There were 17 NGR trains in Queensland, and three have now been officially "accepted" from Indian company Bombardier.

It was hoped the first of the NGR trains would be in passenger service by the end of 2017.

Ms Trad said there was no indication yet of when the next order of trains would be arriving in Queensland.

The NGR trains were crucial to allow smooth public transport for the Gold Coast Commonwealth Games in April 2018, which has been identified as a "stress period" on the QR network.

An independent review by German railway operator Deutsche Bahn, completed in August, argued the 18 NGR trains required for the Commonwealth Games timetable would not be ready in time.

But at the time, there were still 140 issues with the NGR trains, including door and brake control, compared with five unresolved issues in November.

The Department of Transport and Main Roads and Queensland Rail sought a temporary exemption from the Human Right Commission over non-compliance with disability access issues, so the trains could enter passenger service and be used to increase capacity for the Commonwealth Games, while the problems were still being fixed.

Ms Trad said the Commission was still considering the exemption.

"So people with a disability can't use the hallways, they can't use the toilets, this means that Queenslanders with a disability are discriminated against in terms of using these trains and quite frankly we are not going to let that happen," she said.

Ms Trad said she expected a decision from the Commission would be a matter of "weeks rather than months".

"I'm hoping that it will be resolved by Christmas," she said.

It will take about 18 to 24 months to fix the disability access issues with the NGR trains.

Disability access to the toilets would be provided to about half the NGR fleet, 35 trains, which would be used for long distance services on the Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast and Rosewood lines.

The remaining 40 trains would have no toilets, like QR's existing urban fleet.

On Thursday, day 12 of the election campaign, Labor announced it would award the $150 million contract for modification work on the NGR to Maryborough-based Downer EDI, including fixing disability access issues.

Previously, the work was being done at Wulkuraka by a mix of Queensland Rail and Bombardier staff.

Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk also said she would also ensure any future trains for Queensland would be built in Maryborough.

Ms Trad said there was a contingency budget for the modifications to the trains and it would not cost taxpayers any more money.

Labor's Bruce Saunders held the seat of Maryborough on a very slim 1.1 per cent margin and was in a fight to retain his seat.

Mr Saunders said the plan would mean more jobs for the Downer facility, which is one of the major employers in the Wide Bay district.

In August, Mr Saunders told Triple M Fraser Coast there could be a "transport debacle" at the Commonwealth Games because of the trains.

"We are struggling that the people are really trying to get the transport up and running for hte Commonwealth Games," he said.

[InclusionMoves]

Couldn't agree more Metro. Pretty sure a meter is a meter in India just as much as it is here.

"When he was Campbell Newman's treasurer, Tim Nicholls signed the contract for these new trains to be built in India and for jobs to go overseas, but under Labor these trains will be fixed in Queensland by Queenslanders," she said.

"We'll require that this work is done in Maryborough because my government believes that jobs should stay in Queensland and not go overseas – that's why we introduced our Buy Queensland policy"

I get bothered by this concept of "magical transfer" or impartation of workers nationality or national location into what is essentially an

inanimate object that will function pretty much anywhere in the world, regardless of source. Trains are built to specification.

Trains on the Dehli metro are DDA compliant. As are the Gold Coast light rail trains that were manufactured overseas.

What we have in Queensland are three political parties, two of which are trying to be Pauline Hanson One Nation copycats.

The trains are Lemon because the government specified that it wanted Lemons. Nothing to do with "India".

[mufreight]

Future trains to be built in Maryborough? Have you heard about tender processes Anna?

Lack of follow on orders of NGRs will result in a shortage of trains (again) limiting optimal use of the existing train network in the early 2020s.

A follow on order can be placed any time with the additional trains built in Australia regardless of who wins the contract,  Maryborough is the logical location at this time but anywhere in Australia is possible.
At least trains built in this country would be compliant and would not take almost teo years and still not be compliant  and not in service costing millions over their purchase price.

[InclusionMoves]

Agree Stillwater can't help but think we have lost some time here somewhere.

Geoff   

I wonder to what extent the delays in fixing the problems were caused by arranging a deal for this work to be done by Downer at Maryborough, while the original botched contract was carried out by Bombardier.

[ozbob]

^^^

" ...
The Department of Transport and Main Roads and Queensland Rail sought a temporary exemption from the Human Right Commission over non-compliance with disability access issues, so the trains could enter passenger service and be used to increase capacity for the Commonwealth Games, while the problems were still being fixed.

Ms Trad said the Commission was still considering the exemption.

"So people with a disability can't use the hallways, they can't use the toilets, this means that Queenslanders with a disability are discriminated against in terms of using these trains and quite frankly we are not going to let that happen," she said.

Ms Trad said she expected a decision from the Commission would be a matter of "weeks rather than months".

"I'm hoping that it will be resolved by Christmas," she said.

It will take about 18 to 24 months to fix the disability access issues with the NGR trains. ... "

Weeks?  Hello, it would appear the AHRC is still not in receipt of the  ' further information ' requested or otherwise it would be up on the website.  Then the application has to go to public consultation.  A minimum of 4 weeks I understand.  Then the AHRC has to consider any public responses with respect to the application and then consider and finalise its determination. Weeks Ms Trad?  Unlikely ... more like months, particularly as there is a major holiday period involved as well.

Also there is no absolute guarantee that an exemption would be granted.  Just for the record.

[InclusionMoves]

Agree I have lost track of how many glass half full TMR and QR staff have told me "well they are asking for more information that is a good sign" I dunno about them but when I put in an assignment and the teacher looks at it and says "Geoff I really think you should have another crack before I mark that" I didn't take that as a good sign.

Total lack of understanding of the depth of the you know what they were in.

Geoff 

They were hoping the AHRC would roll over.  Compliance with the DDA was the last option on the list.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/928521391162368001

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/928521821732741120

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/928522585486237697

[mufreight]

It would be a good time after the state election for the new Government to call for tenders for another 10 IMU trains with a condition of the tender that they be built in Australia.
Another 10 trains based on the 160 series but 6 car sets instead of 3 car sets, they could be drip fed into the system as replacements for the ICE sets over an extended period and would ensure that production facilities would be maintained in this country for a few more years.

[JimmyP]

Why go backwards in tech? No reason a further order can't be based on a (fixed design) of the NGR.

[mufreight]

Why go backwards in tech? No reason a further order can't be based on a (fixed design) of the NGR.

The NGR sets came off the boat with some 400 faults that have taken over 18 months to rectify and get three train sets to the point where they have past their acceptance trials although they still can not be brought into service because they are not disability compliant.
A repeat order based on the 160 series IMU sets would leave open the option of equipment upgrades of a tried platform.

[BrizCommuter]

Why go backwards in tech? No reason a further order can't be based on a (fixed design) of the NGR.

The NGR sets came off the boat with some 400 faults that have taken over 18 months to rectify and get three train sets to the point where they have past their acceptance trials although they still can not be brought into service because they are not disability compliant.
A repeat order based on the 160 series IMU sets would leave open the option of equipment upgrades of a tried platform.

I highly doubt a repeat order of 160 series is possible. Decade old tech. Moulds and frames have probably been destroyed. Not forgetting tender/procurement legalities.

[James]

The NGR sets came off the boat with some 400 faults that have taken over 18 months to rectify and get three train sets to the point where they have past their acceptance trials although they still can not be brought into service because they are not disability compliant.
A repeat order based on the 160 series IMU sets would leave open the option of equipment upgrades of a tried platform.

I recall reading from petey (or someone similarly well informed) that to have new trains with lots of minor errors is not unexpected initially. Obviously not DDA flaws, but other more minor flaws are not uncommon. And again, this has never been identified as a problem with "India". It is a problem, but what is to say that it wasn't an issue with TMR, or any particular supplier to Bombardier?

This whole "we're going to fix the trains in Maryborough" is incredibly silly. If the trains are faulty, send them back to the manufacturer and tell them to fix them! Spending $100m of additional money on fixing the toilets is essentially the Queensland Government admitting fault on behalf of TMR.

The whole sorry mess is just a circus.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

10th November 2017

New Generation Rollingstock Project - weeks or months yet?

Good Morning,

Yesterday it was reported that Ms Trad expects the Not Going Right (NGR) train issues with non compliance with the DDA and DSAPT would resolved by a temporary exemption by Christmas 2017. [ https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/politics/queensland/question-remains-over-commonwealth-games-trains-20171109-p4ywwz.html ]

' Ms Trad said she expected a decision from the Commission would be a matter of "weeks rather than months".

"I'm hoping that it will be resolved by Christmas," she said. '

We are not so confident. It would appear the AHRC is still not in receipt of the  ' further information ' requested or otherwise it would be up on the AHRC website.  Then the application has to go to public consultation.  A minimum of 4 weeks we understand.  Then the AHRC has to consider any public responses with respect to the application and then consider and finalise its determination.

Weeks Ms Trad?  Unlikely ... more like months, particularly as there is a major holiday period involved as well.

Also there is no absolute guarantee that an exemption would be granted.  Just for the record.

What is the Commonwealth Games rail timetable plan then?  Line closures and severe service reductions on the other lines to support the increased frequency on the Gold Coast line?

One of our members has commented on the NGR situation: " ... The whole sorry mess is just a circus."
[ https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3706.msg200263#msg200263 ]

Yes it is a circus and a very sad indictment on DTMR and a series of incompetent Governments.

We repeat our call for a Commission of Inquiry into this monumental project botch.  The Queensland Audit Office is obviously not interested sadly.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

[Attached: https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3706.msg200204#msg200204 ]

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/928662570323525633

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/928668117428924417

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/928724832274935808

[techblitz]

If the trains are faulty, send them back to the manufacturer and tell them to fix them!

sending them back to the factory is probably out of the question.....we need them fixed within weeks not months......probably better off just flying the workers here(at the dislike of local workers) and have them repair the trains.......assuming there is a clause like that in the contract...
As for the indian factor....too early to make a for/against judgment.......it stretches beyond the factory....the trains were cheaper because they were cheaper to design......there was heavy indian involvement at Milton as well...so until the  'secret' train docs are released....no-one is in any position to comment on the benefits of 'made in oz vs made in india'

[mufreight]

Why go backwards in tech? No reason a further order can't be based on a (fixed design) of the NGR.

The NGR sets came off the boat with some 400 faults that have taken over 18 months to rectify and get three train sets to the point where they have past their acceptance trials although they still can not be brought into service because they are not disability compliant.
A repeat order based on the 160 series IMU sets would leave open the option of equipment upgrades of a tried platform.

I highly doubt a repeat order of 160 series is possible. Decade old tech. Moulds and frames have probably been destroyed. Not forgetting tender/procurement legalities.

A repeat of the 160 series IMU sets would be no problem as Downer are currently still building B series trains for Transperth which are the same shell and traction equipment as the 160 series.

[SurfRail]

The lead times involved for more IMU160s are such that it would be faster to complete the NGR order.  There really is no reason to go back to an older design.

The trains are basically fit for purpose apart from needing works to the toilet modules - installation of a second one, and modification so the non-compliant interior dimensions are fixed. 

What we need is a follow-on order for about 40 new NGRs (preferably with both toilet modules) to ensure there are enough trains coming on-stream to upgrade the timetable and still be able to retire everything built before the SMU220s.  That will leave us with basically 3 classes of train:

220 series SMU
160 series IMU / 260 series SMU (interoperable, near identical fitout but for toilets and luggage racks by certain doors)
700 series (interurban and suburban derivatives)

Then, a follow on order can replace everything prior to the NGRs, and ideally be built with more than 2 doors per carriage face.

[tazzer9]

We still could go for an order of the 160's as the B-series(perth) are still being built, and the 160's are based off them.   

[James]

If the trains are faulty, send them back to the manufacturer and tell them to fix them!

sending them back to the factory is probably out of the question.....we need them fixed within weeks not months......probably better off just flying the workers here(at the dislike of local workers) and have them repair the trains.......assuming there is a clause like that in the contract...
As for the indian factor....too early to make a for/against judgment.......it stretches beyond the factory....the trains were cheaper because they were cheaper to design......there was heavy indian involvement at Milton as well...so until the  'secret' train docs are released....no-one is in any position to comment on the benefits of 'made in oz vs made in india'

Or even better - make Bombardier pay for the repairs! Why should the taxpayer foot the bill for a stuff-up that Labor has blamed on Bombardier/India?

IMO this latest announcement is just an admission from the government that TMR were the sole party responsible for the botch. They should open the whole thing up for a Commission of Inquiry. Absolutely disgraceful from all sides.

[ozbob]

.. IMO this latest announcement is just an admission from the government that TMR were the sole party responsible for the botch. They should open the whole thing up for a Commission of Inquiry. Absolutely disgraceful from all sides.

Nailed it James.  I am amazed the DG of TMR and others there have not been punted to be frank. 

(Make sure you pass that on to your masters lurkers ... #youarewelcome)

[techblitz]

what I don't get is how does scales have so much pull to have the rti`s and other requests blocked?........the last rti into the ngr that was approved was when TMR were about to meet with bombardier.....after that....everything has been blocked or withdrawn...

[ozbob]

what I don't get is how does scales have so much pull to have the rti`s and other requests blocked?........the last rti into the ngr that was approved was when TMR were about to meet with bombardier.....after that....everything has been blocked or withdrawn...

[mufreight]

If the trains are faulty, send them back to the manufacturer and tell them to fix them!

sending them back to the factory is probably out of the question.....we need them fixed within weeks not months......probably better off just flying the workers here(at the dislike of local workers) and have them repair the trains.......assuming there is a clause like that in the contract...
As for the indian factor....too early to make a for/against judgment.......it stretches beyond the factory....the trains were cheaper because they were cheaper to design......there was heavy indian involvement at Milton as well...so until the  'secret' train docs are released....no-one is in any position to comment on the benefits of 'made in oz vs made in india'

The problems with the NGR trains are not Bombarders fault as they built what was ordered and signed off on by TMR and the LNP.  Labor has been pretty useless in getting the problems fixed having known the trains were not disability compliant from the time the first train was unloaded off the ship.
The head of TMR having again proved the lack of expertise in TMR in rail related matters such as the incompatible signaling system at Petrie for the Redcliffe line and the complete disregard of the requirements of Disability discrimination Act ( as further evidenced by the non compliant Banyo station overpass )  and the botched design of these NGR trains.
Having cost the taxpayers of this state over $50 million to fix the signaling at Petrie and now it seems that the taxpayers will have to fork out another $150 million to fix the NGR problems that Mr Scales said were fixed a year ago yet these trains are not yet in service.
Heads should have rolled over a year ago yet we still have assurances from the same people who botched this project that everything is ok.
This could well cost Minister Trad her seat the only thing that will save her is that Nicholes ordered these train and signed off on a hopelessly compromised design.

[JimmyP]

Why go backwards in tech? No reason a further order can't be based on a (fixed design) of the NGR.

The NGR sets came off the boat with some 400 faults that have taken over 18 months to rectify and get three train sets to the point where they have past their acceptance trials although they still can not be brought into service because they are not disability compliant.
A repeat order based on the 160 series IMU sets would leave open the option of equipment upgrades of a tried platform.

Ordering to the exact same spec as the forst few NGRs that cane off the boat would be quite silly. However, ordering more NGRs with the fixes all in place (as will happen with later NGRs as they are delivered) is much smarter than ordering more out of date 160 class IMUs and waiting another 3 or 4 years or so for them to be delivered.
Also, would the 160s be DDA compliant if they were built today? A wheelchair cannot access the toilet when the toilet is at the other end of the train on a 160.

[InclusionMoves]

I don't know the specs of the 160's to comment for sure but given their age from when originally set out I would find it hard to believe that they would be compliant. So please no one give the state an ideas about buying them we could repeat NGR :-)

Geoff

Why go backwards in tech? No reason a further order can't be based on a (fixed design) of the NGR.

The NGR sets came off the boat with some 400 faults that have taken over 18 months to rectify and get three train sets to the point where they have past their acceptance trials although they still can not be brought into service because they are not disability compliant.
A repeat order based on the 160 series IMU sets would leave open the option of equipment upgrades of a tried platform.

Ordering to the exact same spec as the forst few NGRs that cane off the boat would be quite silly. However, ordering more NGRs with the fixes all in place (as will happen with later NGRs as they are delivered) is much smarter than ordering more out of date 160 class IMUs and waiting another 3 or 4 years or so for them to be delivered.
Also, would the 160s be DDA compliant if they were built today? A wheelchair cannot access the toilet when the toilet is at the other end of the train on a 160.