New Generation Rollingstock

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

28th October 2017

More Not Going Right trains in SEQ

Good Morning,

Two more  ' Not Going Right ' (NGR) trains were towed to Wulkuraka yesterday (MU 16 & MU 18).  Are these new trains still DDA DSAPT Non compliant?  We can only assume so as nothing from Government.  Before importing any more units it would be sensible ( I know that sensibility is a rare thing Queensland transport circles ) to modify the trains as they are constructed to meet DDA requirements?  Guess DTMR and others are still trying to work out what to do.

Has a NGR Project Director (Temp) been appointed yet?
[Reference: https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3706.msg197403#msg197403 ]

How is the application for a temporary exemption under the DDA and DSAPT going?   Any official updates please?

High farce this monumental botch.  And the bumblers are still there bumbling on!

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

Media release 22 October 2017 re-released 26th October 2017

Queensland: Call for a Commission of Inquiry into the New Generation Rollingstock Project

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has again called for a Commission of Inquiry into the botched New Generation Rollingstock train project.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"It is disturbing that Queensland's transport authorities and a succession of under-performing Governments, have managed to order new trains, the New Generation Rollingstock trains, that are not compliant with the Disability Discrimination Act (DDA) (1).

"Equally perplexing is the fact that it took nearly two years for the Department of Transport and Main Roads to acknowledge that the trains are not compliant (2).  Disability Advocates have been pressing this for around two years now. Valuable time has been wasted as the trains languished out at Wulkuraka, and Transport and Main Roads personnel remained in denial.

"RAIL Back On Track has previously made a request to the Queensland Auditor General to have this projected audited. This was denied.

"There is little recourse now other than a full Commission of Inquiry.  It is clear to us that the secrecy around this project is clearly designed to protect failure within the Government bureaucracy.

"It is clear that we are in a major rail meltdown with a resolution a very distant dream. There are 15 non DDA compliant NGR trains at Wulkuraka (note we understand there are two more at the Port of Brisbane, perhaps already moved to Wulkuraka). Queensland Rail's service delivery is plagued by constant mechanical issues with the aging train fleet, which causes ongoing service cancellations and delays, let alone the timetable reductions in service already impacting severely in SEQ.  The situation is very, very grim."

"Any reasonable observer can now understand why we requested an audit into this NGR project (albeit declined) early this year.  Our previous calls for a Commission of Inquiry into this project have been ignored.  Today we again call for a Commission of Inquiry into the NGR project.

"We do not want a constant public blame game played out and dumb politics. We want the true facts and circumstances brought into the clear light of day so the monumental botch that this project represents is not repeated.

"This fact is clear: Non DDA compliant NGR trains were ordered under the previous Newman LNP Administration.

"DTMR and the present Government reluctantly finally accepted that the trains are not DDA compliant only a few months ago, despite disability advocates raising concerns for years.  An application for exemption for the non DDA compliant NGR trains to the Australian Human Rights Commission (AHRC) was made more than four weeks ago. This application is now available at the AHRC web site [ http://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-work/legal/exemptions/exemption-applications-under-disability-discrimination-act-1992-cth ]."

"As we understand it, the exemption application has to go to public consultation.  This is normally for around 4 weeks I am advised.  The AHRC then has to consider the consultation and then make a determination.  We expect at the earliest a possible exemption would be granted  late January or early February 2018.  Not looking too bright is it?  What happens if the AHRC determines that due to the procrastination by the authorities with respect to DDA compliance of the NGR trains and other examples of intransigence and scant regard for the DDA Legislation (e.g. building a non DDA compliant footbridge at Banyo railway station) on display in Queensland the exemption application could be refused.  What then?  Lock the toilets and seek permission to run the NGR trains on suburban lines only? Mind boggling hey?"

"Make no mistake, a series of Governments and DTMR have failed Queensland.  Let's have a Commission of Inquiry to get to the facts and truth!

"The inevitable public transport network collapse during the Commonwealth Games will be very embarrassing to say the least.

"We again call on the Government to form a Commission Inquiry into this major failure.

"The public deserve to know the level of incompetence that is transport policy in Queensland."

References:

1. Media releases from Inclusion Moves - a number
https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3706.msg195056#msg195056

2. Interview Geoff Trappett OAM Inclusion Moves with Steve Austin ABC Radio Brisbane concerning DDA issues with NGR trains
https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3706.msg195217#msg195217

3. Nine News Brisbane 20th October 2017 -

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

25th October 2017

NGR - State of Queensland temporary exemption application

Greetings,

From http://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-work/legal/exemptions/exemption-applications-under-disability-discrimination-act-1992-cth

" Current applications for temporary exemptions
State of Queensland temporary exemption application

The Australian Human Rights Commission has received a joint application from the State of Queensland - acting through the Department of Main Roads and Transport and Queensland Rail - for temporary exemptions to the Disability Discrimination Act 1992 (DDA) and the Disability Standards for Accessible Public Standards 2002 (DSAPT).

The application is made pursuant to s 55(1) of the DDA and s 33A.1 of the DSAPT.

The exemptions are sought for a period of three years and relate to the New Generation Rollingstock trains (NGR) procured by the Queensland Government. Through temporary exemptions, the State of Queensland is seeking to undertake funded rectification work to deliver superior accessible outcomes for passengers with disability and provide improved functionality across the six-car train.

The Commission has requested further information from the applicants to assist in our public consultation process. Once the further information is received, the Commission will call for submissions from interested people and parties to respond to the application. ..."

A copy of the application can be found at the website.

Anyone reading the application can come to the correct conclusion that the NGR trains were designed non compliant, were built non compliant, arrived in Australia non compliant and are in fact non compliant with respect to the Disability Discrimination Act 1992 (DDA) and the Disability Standards for Accessible Public Standards 2002 (DSAPT).

The LNP's feeble arguments that the cab modifications that have been necessary since the trains arrived to allow tall drivers to see out of the cabs etc.  are related to the NGR's non compliance with the DDA and DSAPT are nonsense.

We will be making a submission when the AHRC calls for them.

Best wishes,

Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/923959224446607360

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/923960444150210560

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/923964508917309440

[Derwan]

What concerns me greatly though is the temporary exemption going to be a pathway to a permanent exemption?

Probably about as temporary as those platform extensions on the Nambour line.

[ozbob]

What concerns me greatly though is the temporary exemption going to be a pathway to a permanent exemption?

Probably about as temporary as those platform extensions on the Nambour line.

Too true ...

"The best predictor of future behavior is ... past behavior"

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/924809190673080320

[#Metro]

Is it true??

(c) Consultation with external stakeholders was undertaken throughout
train procurement, concept and detailed design development phases
of the project.

(d) Two sessions were held with representatives from the Queensland
disability sector at a physical mock-up of a portion of the train in
August 2014 and March 2015.

http://www.humanrights.gov.au/sites/default/files/Application%20for%20temporary%20exemptions%20from%20the%20DSAPT%20and%20DDA%20-%20NGR%20Project%20.pdf

[InclusionMoves]

Is it true??

(c) Consultation with external stakeholders was undertaken throughout
train procurement, concept and detailed design development phases
of the project.

(d) Two sessions were held with representatives from the Queensland
disability sector at a physical mock-up of a portion of the train in
August 2014 and March 2015.

http://www.humanrights.gov.au/sites/default/files/Application%20for%20temporary%20exemptions%20from%20the%20DSAPT%20and%20DDA%20-%20NGR%20Project%20.pdf

QR and TMR have long since disagreed with the disability sector as to the definition of consultation.

We affirm for example that it's not consultation if it's presented as a done deal. We also affirm that consultation did not occur to a sufficient standard when the mock up is of one carriage but not drawings of other carriage to look at flow of passengers etc are provided.

So those passages need to be read with a grain of salt,

Geoff

[ozbob]

Is it true??

(c) Consultation with external stakeholders was undertaken throughout
train procurement, concept and detailed design development phases
of the project.

(d) Two sessions were held with representatives from the Queensland
disability sector at a physical mock-up of a portion of the train in
August 2014 and March 2015.

http://www.humanrights.gov.au/sites/default/files/Application%20for%20temporary%20exemptions%20from%20the%20DSAPT%20and%20DDA%20-%20NGR%20Project%20.pdf

They still ended up with NGRs not compliant with DDA DSAPT   .... must have been a token effort?

[#Metro]

We affirm for example that it's not consultation if it's presented as a done deal. We also affirm that consultation did not occur to a sufficient standard when the mock up is of one carriage but not drawings of other carriage to look at flow of passengers etc are provided.

Did the mock-up include or exclude the toilet module?

[InclusionMoves]

We affirm for example that it's not consultation if it's presented as a done deal. We also affirm that consultation did not occur to a sufficient standard when the mock up is of one carriage but not drawings of other carriage to look at flow of passengers etc are provided.

Did the mock-up include or exclude the toilet module?

Did, hence we started arguments straight after. First with QR for a few months with no luck. Then first raised issues with Minister for Transport in late 2015. Missing from mock up was relocated guard position. As you needed to see the whole train for that. Piecemeal looks at individual parts doesn't make it possible to see the whole picture. We wonder now whether that was intentional.   

Geoff

[Stillwater]

TMR mistakes preaching for listening.  Consultation goes something like this ....

TMR:  "We have called you all here to inform you about what we have decided to do, blah, blah, blah.  We would especially like your views on the colours of the tiles in the toilets ... see the examples over there."

CROWD: In uproar.  "Who decided that?"  "That is poor planning."  "This does not sit well with the council plan for the park next door."  "People are going to have to drive one kilometre further to get to their houses."  ETC ETC

TMR:  Adjusts volume of public address system .... Shouts: WE HAVE CALLED YOU HERE TO INFORM YOU ABOUT WHAT WE HAVE DECIDED TO DO.  NOW, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE COLOUR OF THE TILES IN THE TOILETS."

[InclusionMoves]

Stillwater you could not be closer to the truth if you tried!!!

Made my night sir,

Geoff

TMR mistakes preaching for listening.  Consultation goes something like this ....

TMR:  "We have called you all here to inform you about what we have decided to do, blah, blah, blah.  We would especially like your views on the colours of the tiles in the toilets ... see the examples over there."

CROWD: In uproar.  "Who decided that?"  "That is poor planning."  "This does not sit well with the council plan for the park next door."  "People are going to have to drive one kilometre further to get to their houses."  ETC ETC

TMR:  Adjusts volume of public address system .... Shouts: WE HAVE CALLED YOU HERE TO INFORM YOU ABOUT WHAT WE HAVE DECIDED TO DO.  NOW, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE COLOUR OF THE TILES IN THE TOILETS."

[300LA]

A second NGR was at Mayne this morning, less than 48hrs after the election was called. Coincidence?

What are the chances they could be in revenue service during the election campaign? At the very least I can see red team using them as a sign the trains are getting back on track

[ozbob]

Thanks for the report.
Possibly also related to the fact there's now 17 NGRs in Queensland and Wulkuraka has capacity for 15.

Might be a while yet before AHRC consider the exemption application
Still has to go to public consultation yet ( normally around 4 weeks).

[SurfRail]

There's no chance these will be in service before the election.  The time-frames do not permit it.

[InclusionMoves]

Agree there is no chance. Thinking that NGR will be the elephant in the room that no one dares mention from either side given there is blame on both sides. Eventually one side will get to the bottom of the barrel of issues they can use though and risk it, then well bring on the half truths and misinformation from both sides.

Geoff

There's no chance these will be in service before the election.  The time-frames do not permit it.

[ozbob]

No change at AHRC re NGR exemption application:

http://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-work/legal/exemptions/exemption-applications-under-disability-discrimination-act-1992-cth

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/925768981465538561

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/927221024155844608

[verbatim9]

When I head to work on the Northside and go past Bowen Hills station. There always seems to be 2 NGRs stabled at the Yards ready for revenue services or testing, it seems? I also found out through talking to some security guards that the NGR's draw more power from the network than the other trains. New transformers needed to be installed to cope with the power usage. The trains at this point of time can only run 4 mins apart due to the power usage. Apparently power upgrades are getting done progressively!?

[ozbob]

Thanks for the report.
Possibly also related to the fact there's now 17 NGRs in Queensland and Wulkuraka has capacity for 15.

Might be a while yet before AHRC consider the exemption application
Still has to go to public consultation yet ( normally around 4 weeks).

[ozbob]

Interesting session on Mornings with Steve Austin today. DP Trad and Shadow Transport Powell interviewees. NGR non compliance was attempted to be covered up by Powell but Trad nailed the truth. Powell admitted they did change the design to DOO, in so doing caused the non compliance issues.

I will get the interview up later today as time ⌚ permits.

For now > http://www.abc.net.au/radio/brisbane/programs/mornings/

6 Nov 17 around 50 minutes..

======================

Extracted interview with Ms Trad and Mr Powell > here! MP3 32 MB

Covers Public Transport Authority, Rail fail issues, NGR, and SCL upgrade. Interview goes for about 20 minutes.

[ozbob]

This interview really does confirm the facts.  The LNP altered the trains to remove the central guard compartment and modified the design.  The design was not compliant.  It is very disappointing to still hear Mr Powell prattle on about ' guard cubby holes ' causing the problems.  There are no ' guard cubby holes '.  The altered design was not run past Queensland Rail as the LNP plan was DOO (admitted by Mr Powell in the interview).

Want a tip LNP?  Admit the fact that you did sign off on a botched design.  Continuing to make misrepresentations and untruths is just confirming you all as a bunch of politicians not to be trusted.   

When Mr Scales suggested last year that the problems were fixed, was simply not the case.

The trains are not operating at present in revenue service because they are not DDA and DSAPT compliant.  Fact. 

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/927444537286410241

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

7th November 2017

New Generation Rollingstock Project - cannot hide the truth

Good Morning,

Yesterday during an interview on ABC Brisbane Mornings with Steve Austin, the Shadow Transport Minister Mr Powell confirmed that the LNP did modify the original design of the New Generation Rollingstock (NGR) trains to remove the central guard cabin, and in so doing making the new design of the NGR non compliant with respect to the Disability Discrimination Act and the Disability Standards for Accessible Public Transport (DSAPT).  They ordered the trains in a Driver Only Operation (DOO) configuration. This is despite the rail network for SEQ suburban not being enabled for Automatic Train Protection and the fact the many of the stations are not full height and not DDA compliant. (Interview > https://backontrack.org/docs/media/abc_brisbane_6nov17.mp3 ).

Mr Powell seems to push the misrepresentation that ' guard cubby holes ' have been the cause of the delay.  Incorrect, there  are no guard cubby holes on the trains.  There were around 500 critical issues with the trains as delivered ( beside the non compliance).  Guards will be in the end driver cabs.  Some improvements to the cabs have been necessary to allow tall drivers to see out of the cabs and properly operate the trains, and for guards to carry out their duties.  The NGR trains were designed in the end non compliant, have been built non compliant and are still non compliant.  As detailed by Ms Trad during the interview work is still proceeding on the exact costs for making the trains compliant. Estimates are around $100 million.  Mr Powell also thinks that because the DG of TMR said last year that the issues were fixed, the problems are of recent making.  Not so, the DG of TMR was clearly incorrect when that statement was made.  The NGR trains have always been non compliant.

The Australian Human Rights Commission is the process of accessing the application for exemption for the NGR trains due to their non compliance. ( See >
http://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-work/legal/exemptions/exemption-applications-under-disability-discrimination-act-1992-cth ).  Of interest is that the AHRC has requested more information from TMR/QR.  This will add to the delays for the granting of an exemption ( if so granted ).  The Application still has to go to public consultation ( for around 4 weeks or so we understand ).  The AHRC then has to make its determination.  We think it unlikely that the NGR trains will be in actual passenger revenue service any time soon.

Nothing short of a Commission of Inquiry is needed into the botch that this NGR project is.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

[ Attached:  https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3706.msg199575#msg199575 ]

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/927570675526541313

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/927578983155113984

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/927582453304197121

[Stillwater]

It is an absolute disgrace that the Auditor-General is taking a hands-off approach to this.

[ozbob]

It is an absolute disgrace that the Auditor-General is taking a hands-off approach to this.

Too true...

[ozbob]

The Victorian Auditor General's Office (VAGO) seems to have no such reservations ..

" Our reports are tabled in Parliament and contain the results of our financial and performance audits. "

Search for transport related reports:

>> here! 

[tazzer9]

When I head to work on the Northside and go past Bowen Hills station. There always seems to be 2 NGRs stabled at the Yards ready for revenue services or testing, it seems? I also found out through talking to some security guards that the NGR's draw more power from the network than the other trains. New transformers needed to be installed to cope with the power usage. The trains at this point of time can only run 4 mins apart due to the power usage. Apparently power upgrades are getting done progressively!?

704 and 706 still there as of today.   New trains drawing more power happens everywhere.  Happened in NSW with the M sets, then the waratahs.  Happened in melbourne.  Happened in perth with the B sets.   Usually its because of ever increasing air-conditioning power, along with bigger motors, even if they are more efficient.   In wellington NZ, they even bumped there power supply up to 1600v from 1500v to cope with the new trains extra power, along with being able to run 8 car services.

[ozbob]

Today's Facebook post re NGR viz. https://www.facebook.com/RAILBackOnTrack/posts/1836183213062524 has gone ballistic!

#justsaying

[MichaelJ]

The 700 Series EMU article for Railway Digest is in full swing now!

[ozbob]

The 700 Series EMU article for Railway Digest is in full swing now!

Good luck with  it MJ.   

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

8th November 2017

Re: New Generation Rollingstock Project - cannot hide the truth

Good Morning,

While waiting to pick up my grand-daughter from Prep at School at Corinda yesterday afternoon I noted a NGR train heading UP (outbound) at Corinda.

They are certainly a slick looking train.  It is a pity that their acquisition is so checkered and compromised by failure.

The community at large is thirsting for accurate information on the botched NGR project.  The public see the trains out testing but still not in passenger revenue service, months and months on.

Our post yesterday re NGR on Facebook has had a very strong response.
( https://www.facebook.com/RAILBackOnTrack/posts/1836183213062524 ).
As I write this 6,268 people have been reached, with 76 shares.  This is a sign that people want the truth not confected spin and deceit from the Government, Opposition and DTMR.  Happy we can oblige in helping spread the truth.

There is still no change at the Australian Human Rights Commission web site with respect to the application for a temporary exemption for the non DDA and DSAPT compliant NGR trains.
( http://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-work/legal/exemptions/exemption-applications-under-disability-discrimination-act-1992-cth )

It is now 627 days since the first NGR train was towed to Wulkuraka.  They are still not in passenger revenue service.  This startling  and alarming fact is a measure of the seriousness of this project failure.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

[ Attached: https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3706.msg200138#msg200138  ]

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/927933279906361349

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/927935158216355841

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/927939621903728640

[ozbob]

Days since NGR 701 towed to Wulkuraka

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/928099923542753280

[Stillwater]

And they vote!    Polling shows that some seats will swing on just 300 or 400 votes.

[MichaelJ]

The 700 Series EMU article for Railway Digest is in full swing now!

Good luck with  it MJ.

It's actually coming along quite well!  There's some really good train features, ones I wish were included in the Waratah (maybe Waratah II).

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Queensland Election 2017: Labor to give $150m train upgrade work to Maryborough firm Downer

MORE than $150 million worth of modification work needed on the state's troubled new train fleet will be funnelled to a Maryborough firm as Labor fights to keep the marginal seat at the November 25 election.

Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk and Transport Minister Jackie Trad will travel to the Wide Bay area Thursday to announce Maryborough firm Downer will be handed the contract to undertake the new generation rollingstock work should Labor win a second term in office.

Labor's Bruce Saunders holds the seat with a margin of just 1.1 per cent and is facing a fight to hold on the electorate against a resurgent One Nation.

The "Save Bruce Strategy" brings to more than $350 million the amount of State Government work promised to the manufacturing company, one of Maryborough's largest employers, in less than two years.

The company was handed more than $70 million in modification work in September as part of a $200 million slice of a $400 million Queensland Rail contract.

The modification work includes at least $100 million to fix disability access problems and $50 million to change the placement of train guards.

Train manufacturer Bombardier is understood to have been asked to work with Downer on the modifications with the two firms previously engaged in work together.

Instead of a tender process the firm will be asked to undertake an open book audit.

Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk took a swipe at the former Newman government's decision to hand the original contract to Bombardier to build the new fleet of trains in India in announcing the new work for Downer.

"When he was Campbell Newman's treasurer, Tim Nicholls signed the contract for these new trains to be built in India and for jobs to go overseas, but under Labor these trains will be fixed in Queensland by Queenslanders," she said.

"We'll require that this work is done in Maryborough because my government believes that jobs should stay in Queensland and not go overseas – that's why we introduced our Buy Queensland policy"

Ms Trad said the bill for the modifications would be covered within the NGR budget.

"Bombardier and Downer have been in discussions on the modifications to the NGR trains and Downer has responded with a willingness to undertake the work locally," she said.

"Downer wants to do this work in Maryborough and a re-elected Palaszczuk Government will make sure that happens."

She said the firm would, however, need to be subject to an open book audit "so that we ensure value for money for the taxpayers".

The ALP needs to hold on to seats like Maryborough if it has any hope of gaining the 47 seats it needs to govern in its own right in the new Parliament.

Fraser Coast councillor James Hansen is running for One Nation against Mr Saunders while Maryborough Chamber of Commerce vice-president Richard Kingston is running for the LNP.

Wide Bay Conservation Council member Roger Currie has put his hand to run as an independent in the seat as well alongside Greens candidate Craig Armstrong.