New Generation Rollingstock

[MichaelJ]

You just can't please everyone, so they will just have to be disgruntled.

The product, shortly handed over to the people of Queensland, offers a greater level of safety, security and comfort than ever before.  I'm qualified to say that because I know the specifications of the train in greater detail than a few diagrams.

QDN has been advised that extra platform staff to be employed to ensure boarding / alighting failures are minimized.

Now there's an excellent suggestion.  We have station staff here in Sydney for passengers requiring boarding assistance and it works excellently.  You can even tie is back to business objectives, specifically improving operational efficiency.

[ozbob]

Yo.  Look forward to the introduction of the NGR trains.  I have had some feedback re the seats being a bit hard, but hey cannot please everyone!

They are a bit more noisy under traction than I expected.  Apart from the DDA issues, which are being sorted should be a welcome addition to the fleet.  All ready for ETCS as well.  That project (ETCS) is rolling along now too.

[InclusionMoves]

MichaelJ I have been dying to use a particular emoticon to illustrate my frustration in dealing with you. Given you have cherry picked a sentence here is another cherry picked "however QDN maintains the position that these measures will not address the changes needed to deliver an accessible rail service for Queenslanders with disability, in particular who require assisted boarding."         

You just can't please everyone, so they will just have to be disgruntled.

The product, shortly handed over to the people of Queensland, offers a greater level of safety, security and comfort than ever before.  I'm qualified to say that because I know the specifications of the train in greater detail than a few diagrams.

QDN has been advised that extra platform staff to be employed to ensure boarding / alighting failures are minimized.

Now there's an excellent suggestion.  We have station staff here in Sydney for passengers requiring boarding assistance and it works excellently.  You can even tie is back to business objectives, specifically improving operational efficiency.

[MichaelJ]

Don't you worry, Train Crew are banging their heads against a wall on account of you too.  I'm sure you'd probably wonder how or why I just 'burst' onto this thread.  Reality is, I didn't - we've been talking about it in another forum for some time now.

[InclusionMoves]

MichaelJ you are a NSW guard you have no dog in this fight. So your opinion couldn't matter less. Happy to talk to any Qld based guards at any point as I already do as a regular traveler as I said not anti guard. I catch the 7:04am from Wulkuraka and the 5:18pm from Roma Street just for transparency. 

Don't you worry, Train Crew are banging their heads against a wall on account of you too.  I'm sure you'd probably wonder how or why I just 'burst' onto this thread.  Reality is, I didn't - we've been talking about it in another forum for some time now.

[MichaelJ]

You know that the 700 Series and Waratah shared at least one person in their design teams, right?

You know that the QR Staff actually came down to Sydney to work along-side us and gather ideas, right?

You know that the any learnings from the Waratah were incorporated into the 700 Series, right?

See just how little you know about what's going on in the background.  You might have some media and sports experience but you're certainly no authority on the 700 Series Project.

[InclusionMoves]

You can either ask the questions MichaelJ or answer them you can't do both.

[ozbob]

It is now ~ 3 weeks since the exemption to run the NGRs non DDA compliant was made by the authorities.

My understanding is it could take a while longer yet. Now day 604 since NGR 701 hit Wulkuraka.   

Even for Queensland this is looking rather drawn out hey?   

[ozbob]

Just to remind us all ...

====================

http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2016/2/19/new-generation-train-connected-and-ready-to-roll

Media Statements
Minister for Transport and the Commonwealth Games
The Honourable Stirling Hinchliffe

Friday, February 19, 2016

New generation train connected and ready to roll

The first New Generation Rollingstock train has rolled through Brisbane's rail network today to commence its extensive testing journey so it can pass inspection and become a commuter passenger train later this year.

Minister for Transport Stirling Hinchliffe said first train in South East Queensland's new flagship fleet arrived in the Port of Brisbane on Monday and would move to the purpose-built Wulkuraka Maintenance Centre, west of Ipswich, to continue its extensive testing regime to meet operational and safety standards in readiness for passengers.

"Over next three years 75 six-car train sets will be delivered to the Port of Brisbane and gradually rolled out onto the South East Queensland passenger rail network," Mr Hinchliffe said.

"Technical specialists from NGR train builder Bombardier Transportation connected six cars of the new train so it could be hauled to its new home.

"Before being moved, the train had to undergo a series of safety tests which included having its air-hose pressure and brakes tested ready for it to be hauled by diesel locomotives.

"Once the train arrives at Wulkuraka it will continue its extensive testing regime to meet Queensland Rail operational and safety standards in readiness for passengers."

Mr Hinchliffe said the NGR train's operational and passenger comfort features including the seats, endurance of the door system, and the dynamic performance of the braking and traction systems would be tested.

"One of the most important elements of the trains is the 'full-load capacity' braking system test to meet Australian standards under a range of environmental conditions and speeds," Mr Hinchliffe said.

The first NGR train is expected to enter service on the South East Queensland passenger rail in the second half of this year.

===================

" The first NGR train is expected to enter service on the South East Queensland passenger rail in the second half of this year. "  < 2016

righto then ... 

19th February 2016 - passing through Goodna station on the tow ...

[#Metro]

Meanwhile:

NSW




VIC




SA




Did I mention that they are DDA compliant?

[MichaelJ]

I believe, Bob, that three units have finally been accepted by the Queensland Government.  They're just working on two more to add to the mix before commencing revenue service.

[ozbob]

I believe, Bob, that three units have finally been accepted by the Queensland Government.  They're just working on two more to add to the mix before commencing revenue service.

Thanks for the info.  I had heard one was finally accepted a few weeks ago.  I expect the exemption from the AHRC will be forthcoming,  and then we will see them in passenger revenue service.

[MichaelJ]

There is rumoured to be another hurdle that recently emerged on a test run to BDT - and that is the nose cone impeding the train stop system in the event of an overshoot.  We will just have to see how that one plays out because the nose cone is now required for additional safety.

In any event, I think early November for revenue service is quite possible.

[ozbob]

Yo. November might be the month! 

[red dragin]

705 was on 'display' this morning at Mayne.

[InclusionMoves]

Absolutely does not mean it won't be quicker but if you have a look at the current ARA exemption and use it as a baseline it was written in April and approved in October. Just to give people an idea of timelines in the past,

Geoff

[ozbob]

^ could be months then before an exemption. 

[MichaelJ]

The evil gremlin inside me says, "let it be February," then we can celebrate their second birthday without having made a dollar.

[ozbob]

We have a poll going here: How many days before NGR enters regular revenue service?

(from 19th Feb 2016)

> https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=12787.0

[JimmyP]

There is rumoured to be another hurdle that recently emerged on a test run to BDT - and that is the nose cone impeding the train stop system in the event of an overshoot.  We will just have to see how that one plays out because the nose cone is now required for additional safety.

In any event, I think early November for revenue service is quite possible.

I wouldn't put much stock in tbat, that was a rumour going around ages ago for why they hadn't been to the Airport, whereas the real reason was simply that Airtrain wouldn't allow any NGR on their line until it had been accepted by QR/QLD Gov.

[MichaelJ]

Here's some photos of the testing in September 2017 ... the first two locations, I captured the 160 Series doing testing as well, a decade or so ago.

Carseldine
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesmp/23498305788

Dakabin
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesmp/37113129110

Burpengary
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesmp/23517667138

[ozbob]

^ NGR 706 

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/919975187767967744

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/919975963416395776

[ozbob]

Noted a NGR UP through Goodna around 4.40am this morning. 

[ozbob]

Spotted another NGR UP through Goodna at 4.50am this morning.  Getting to be a regular thing ..

[ozbob]

Normally there is a period of public consultation with respect to applications for exemptions under the DDA. 

I am hopeful there will be an opportunity to comment on the application in the next week or so for those so interested.

http://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-work/legal/exemptions/exemption-applications-under-disability-discrimination-act-1992-cth

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

20th October 2017

Next Generation Rollingstock a.k.a. Not Going Right (NGR) trains DDA Non Compliant

Good Morning,

Unfortunate shunting mishap with NGR 715 at Wulkuraka.  The article at the Couriermail >  Derailment at Wulkuraka involving NGR test train has this comment:

"But the botched implementation of the NGR fleet is 100 per cent Labor's mess and they need to explain why after the trains were given the green light late in 2016 that they still haven't been put into service," he said. "

The fact is the design of the NGR trains was botched by the former Newman Government.  The trains are NOT DDA compliant. The DTMR and the present Government were very slow to accept the fact that the trains are not compliant.  When the DG of TMR said the issues were fixed with the NGR trains in 2016 this was not correct.  The trains have not been DDA compliant since the day they arrived at the Port of Brisbane. Belatedly a request for exemption from the Australian Human Rights Commission for DDA Non Compliance is now in process.  Show us the design that you signed off on LNP.

We have attempted to get past the silly political games with this botched project and find the true circumstances of failure by first requesting an audit by the Queensland Auditor General. This audit request was declined.  We have subsequently called for a Commission of Inquiry.  These requests have been ignored.

It is a sad testament to the mediocre capability of DTMR and successive Governments this NGR project failure.  One day the truth will out.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/921049507088838656

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/921052502371459072

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/921053242875711488

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/921055965226471424

[ozbob]

Separate discussion thread for NGR train derailed at Wulkuraka

See > https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=12955.0

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/9NewsQueensland/status/921287209256337413

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/921290282745733120

[ozbob]

^ 

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/7NewsBrisbane/status/921287529885614081

[ozbob]

21st October 2017

The blame game has begun over the derailment of one of Queensland's new train

Good Morning,

Excellent news item on Nine News Queensland last evening
( https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3706.msg199332#msg199332 )

" The blame game has begun over the derailment of one of Queensland's new trains "

Any reasonable observer can now realise why we requested an audit into this NGR project (albeit declined) early this year.  Our previous calls for a Commission of Inquiry into this project ignored.  Today we again call for a Commission of Inquiry into the NGR project.

We do not want a constant public blame game played out and dumb politics. We want the true facts and circumstances brought into the clear light of day so the monumental botch that this project represents is not repeated.

The facts are clear.  Non DDA compliant NGR trains were ordered under the previous Newman LNP Administration.

DTMR and the present Government reluctantly finally accepted that the trains are not DDA compliant only a few months ago, despite disability advocates raising concerns for years.  An application for exemption for the non compliant NGR trains to the Australian Human Rights Commission (AHRC) was made a little less than four weeks ago.  Seriously, it is now day 609 since the first NGR train was towed to Wulkuraka. Wake up!

As we understand it, the exemption application has to go to public consultation.  This is normally for around 4 weeks I am advised.  The AHRC then has to consider the consultation and then make a determination.  We expect at the earliest a possible exemption would be granted  late January. early February 2018.  Not looking too bright is it?  What happens if the AHRC determines that due to the procrastination by the authorities with respect to DDA compliance of the NGR trains and other examples of intransigence and scant regard for the DDA Legislation (e.g. building a non DDA compliant footbridge at Banyo railway station) on display in Queensland the exemption application could be refused.  What then?  Lock the toilets and seek permission to run the NGR trains on suburban lines only? Mind boggling hey?

Make no mistake, a series of Governments and DTMR have failed Queensland.  Let's have a Commission of Inquiry to get to the facts and truth!

Now, with respect to the recent derailment of NGR 715 at Wulkuraka.  For unknown reasons the NGR 715 under tow attempted to run through catch points that were set to derail. These points would have been protected by red signals = do not proceed.  The catch points are in place to protect the main western line from unauthorised trains, carriages and other vehicles from running onto the mainline from the maintenance yard.  The catch points have done their job, they stopped the shunting vehicle and train by derailing said vehicles.  Why the NGR train under tow was so far down to engage the catch points and ignore the red signals is something the investigations will need to determine.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

20th October 2017

Next Generation Rollingstock a.k.a. Not Going Right (NGR) trains DDA Non Compliant

Good Morning,

Unfortunate shunting mishap with NGR 715 at Wulkuraka.  The article at the Couriermail >  Derailment at Wulkuraka involving NGR test train has this comment:

"But the botched implementation of the NGR fleet is 100 per cent Labor's mess and they need to explain why after the trains were given the green light late in 2016 that they still haven't been put into service," he said. "

The fact is the design of the NGR trains was botched by the former Newman Government.  The trains are NOT DDA compliant. The DTMR and the present Government were very slow to accept the fact that the trains are not compliant.  When the DG of TMR said the issues were fixed with the NGR trains in 2016 this was not correct.  The trains have not been DDA compliant since the day they arrived at the Port of Brisbane. Belatedly a request for exemption from the Australian Human Rights Commission for DDA Non Compliance is now in process.  Show us the design that you signed off on LNP.

We have attempted to get past the silly political games with this botched project and find the true circumstances of failure by first requesting an audit by the Queensland Auditor General. This audit request was declined.  We have subsequently called for a Commission of Inquiry.  These requests have been ignored.

It is a sad testament to the mediocre capability of DTMR and successive Governments this NGR project failure.  One day the truth will out.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/921417371012624384

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/921419314409828352

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Derailed new generation train pulled off line by 'shunter': Minister

The new Queensland train that derailed near Ipswich on Thursday was attached to a shunting engine that "pulled it off the tracks", Transport Minister Jackie Trad said on Friday as she sought to allay fears about the safety of the controversial New Generation Rollingstock.

The train, one of 75 the Queensland government has ordered in a $4.4 billion contract, was being shunted near the rail company's Wulkuraka Maintenance Yard at Ipswich about 4.30pm when it derailed.

"I am advised that it was the shunter that came off the tracks in the first instance and the new train followed," Ms Trad said.

Ms Trad said it was important a full investigation was completed.

"At this stage the preliminary observation is that the shunter came off the track first, but as I said, let's allow for a full investigation to take place into all aspects of this instance," she said.

"It is very important that we understand exactly what happened here so the public can have full confidence in what has happened here."

The new train is still being tested and is not yet passenger-ready.

It was one of 15 NGR sets, which include the train and six carriages, that have arrived in Queensland as part of the 30-year contract.

They are all still being tested. Of more than 480 design problems identified with the trains, "less than 20 remain", Ms Trad said.

She said the report from the independent National Rail Safety Regulator would be made public.

Ms Trad said despite the setback, the government was confident a number of NGR trains would be among the fleet needed to provide extra services to the Gold Coast during next year's Commonwealth Games.

She said the government may not be able to say exactly how many until March 2018.

"We are confident we will have a number of units (trains) in passenger service (completed 100 hours on-line running without issues) in time for the Commonwealth Games," she said.

Ms Trad was reluctant to put a figure on the number of NGR trains and carriages that will in the larger mix of trains and carriages needed to provide the extra services to the Gold Coast during the Games.

"We know that we need additional trains to meet the transport needs for the Commonwealth Games," she said.

Ms Trad said she had met with her Commonwealth Games senior planning staff on Friday morning.

"They are confident of resolving a number of issues that still need resolving and they are working around the clock to do this," she said.

That included the long-running issues with disability access, with both major parties accusing each other of making changes to the design during the contract that meant they were less accessible to people with disabilities.

The final new train contract, which is being completed in India, was signed in 2013 by then-treasurer Tim Nicholls and then-transport minister Scott Emerson.

The process started under Anna Bligh's Labor government.

The LNP promised to save $11 million a train from Labor's earlier new train plan when they signed to the contract to send the work overseas.

However, Mr Nicholls on Friday provided Hansard records to show that Ms Bligh's government in 2011 knew that the large EDI Downer engineering company from Maryborough had pulled out of the large rail contract, meaning no Australian firm was able to bid for the work.

"For the record, Australian manufacturing company Downer pulled out of the contract under the Anna Bligh government when Annastacia Palaszczuk was transport minister," Mr Nicholls said.

Ms Trad said Mr Nicholls should explain what the LNP did in 2012 when EDI Downer pulled out of the contract.

"I say 'where there is a will there is a way' and quite frankly did he sit down with Downer and ask them why they had withdrawn from the process?" she said.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/921517097577996288

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/921518622396235778

[ozbob]

Days since NGR 701 towed to Wulkuraka

[ozbob]

[SABB]

Ms Trad says that the LNP is responsible for this mess. If that were to be true why doesn't the Government order the Commission of Inquiry (as requested by Ozbob) and prove it to be so. My retired QR contacts tell me that the NGR project was taken from QR during Anna Bligh's reign. I suspect that an inquiry would proved that this mess started during Anna's term.

[ozbob]

There is clearly a great reluctance from both the LNP and ALP to get the real facts out.  That is what we want.  This level of project mismanagement must not be allowed to happen again.

The fact that the DTMR/Queensland Rail have applied for an exemption means absolutely the trains are not DDA compliant.  The trains were not DDA compliant 609 days ago.  An additional cost now of $150 Million and a two year rectification plan.

I know the LNP bypassed some of the normal checks and balances when they shunted Queensland Rail.   For example the ' Cab Committee ' didn't have an opportunity to review the design.  Subsequently the cabs have had to be modified so that drivers over 6 feet tall can drive the trains and cab vision corrected.  There are lot more design issues. 

Nothing short of a proper Commission of Inquiry is needed. Clearly.

The fact that there is the additional expenditure announced, I am tossing up in my head about making another request for an audit by the Queensland Auditor General and Audit Office.