New Generation Rollingstock

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

9th October 2017

Next Generation Rollingstock a.k.a. Not Going Right (NGR) trains - any progress?

Good Morning,

We assume the application to the Australian Human Rights Commission for an exemption from the DDA for the New Generation Rollingstock (NGR) a.k.a Not Going Right trains, was submitted around 25th September.  Two weeks ago.  As we understand it, the application has to be given an opportunity for public consultation before a determination.  Could be a while yet before the NGR trains are in revenue passenger service.

DTMR has resisted attempts by Disability Advocates at obtaining a copy of the Application for Exemption from the DDA document.   Most things with the NGR project have been secret and a serious botch, no great surprise then.

We repeat our call for a Commission of Inquiry into this NGR mess.

The former Newman LNP Government, the DTMR, and the present Palaszczuk Government must all be held to account.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

6th October 2017

Next Generation Rollingstock a.k.a. Not Going Right (NGR) trains - any progress?

Good Morning,

Any progress with the appointment of the Project Director (temp) NGR project?

Any progress with the application to the AHRC for a DDA exemption because the NGR trains are not DDA compliant?

Mechanical issues still happening regularly on the SEQ rail network  with the aging train fleet ( https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=1862.msg198505#msg198505 ) causing cancellations, delays and altered services.

Queensland Citizens are furious that a PPP costing the state $4.4 Billion has been so badly botched.  Both the ALP and LNP are trying to bury the failure.  The Queensland Audit Office turned down our request for an audit into this shambles.  The Government dismisses our calls for a Commission of Inquiry to find out why this project went off the rails.  The LNP will not produce documentation that they signed off on when in Government.

Not much transparency in Queensland transport circles is there?

Hey ho, off to bury another botch we go!

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/917435464189067264

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/917437004387729408

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

11th October 2017

Public Transport Queensland - the way forward

Good Morning,

Public transport is in such a mess that a complete restructure is needed.  TransLink and DTMR have delivered much failure sadly, with grave risks for our transport networks leading up to and during the Commonwealth Games, let alone for now and the period after the games.

The solution to really coming to terms with the situation is to create a proper statutory authority, e.g. Public Transport Queensland (PTQ) that administers and delivers  public transport ( https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=12341.0 ).  Completely free of DTMR contagion and its now demonstrated incompetence.  An excellent model for the PTQ is the Public Transport Authority  of Western Australia (PTA-WA) - > http://www.pta.wa.gov.au/.

The PTA and Transperth, the agency for operating public transport for Perth, runs rings around our agencies and operators (see > https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=12368.msg189563#msg189563 ).  Frequent rail services ( all lines 15 minutes out of peak, peak better of course ) with proper connected feeder bus networks.  It is embarrassing how bad our public transport network is now in SEQ by comparison. Even Adelaide ( Adelaide Metro ) is leaving us behind.

Under a PTQ model Queensland Rail would sit in a heavy rail division as a streamlined operator.  Put on notice that in 3 years rail operations would be opened up to competitive tender.  As would all operators including Transport for Brisbane.

Band-aids, spin and bluster are not going to fix the root problems with public transport in Queensland.  Proper structural and organisational reform will.

Add in the political uncertainty with respect to projects such as Cross River Rail and Brisbane Metro.  Little wonder that we are very concerned.

We have seen much failure ( particularly the Redcliffe Peninsula Line and New Generation Rollingstock, failed bus network reform, collapse of the rail network ), with very limited successes.  The New Generation Rollingstock trains cannot be introduced into revenue service because an exemption from the Disability Discrimination Act from the Australian Human Rights Commission has to be obtained. This is a very serious blunder and warrants a full forensic examination of the true circumstances. This is needed to stop such a travesty occurring again.

Our calls for an audit into this project declined by the Queensland Auditor General.  Calls for a Commission of Inquiry into all circumstances of the botched NGR project ignored.  Why?  Because the LNP and the ALP are both culpable in our view.  DTMR has failed abysmally.  They all are trying to bury the truth.

Time to change the paradigm.

Is there a political party that will place Queensland on a proper footing for future public transport success? Or just more petty politics and knee-jerk policy initiatives based on pork-barrels rather than real need?

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/917789511379148801

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/917794899365265408

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

12th October 2017

Next Generation Rollingstock a.k.a. Not Going Right (NGR) trains - 600 days

Good Morning,

A NGR milestone of sorts:



And we are still waiting for an Exemption from the Australian Human Rights Commission to run the NGR trains in a non DDA compliant condition.

Unbelievable botch, and the bumblers are still there bumbling on hey?

These NGR trains are needed in service urgently, more ' mechanical issues ' with the Queensland Rail train fleet yesterday leading to  service cancellations and subsequent service alterations ( https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=1862.msg198941#msg198941 ).  An almost daily occurrence.

Will there be a cake out at Wulkuraka?

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

[ Attached: https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3706.msg198909#msg198909 ]

[ozbob]

Next Generation Rollingstock a.k.a. Not Going Right (NGR) trains - 600 days
> https://t.co/OLdPgJx8ih#qldpol#NGRfail#headsmustroll pic.twitter.com/dxv6F5KTV3

— Robert Dow (@Robert_Dow) October 11, 2017

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/918161732538732544

[verbatim9]

A 71? (something) was at Bowen Hills stabling yesterday. Didn't get the last digit.

[BrizCommuter]

600 and not out - a record in incompetence!

[aldonius]

A 71? (something) was at Bowen Hills stabling yesterday. Didn't get the last digit.

I think it was 713 this evening.

[BrizCommuter]

NGR Fail - 600 Days and Questions for Mr Nicholls
https://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2017/10/ngr-fail-600-days-and-questions-for-mr.html

[ozbob]

NGR Fail - 600 Days and Questions for Mr Nicholls
https://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2017/10/ngr-fail-600-days-and-questions-for-mr.html

  Sent to all outlets and ...

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/918508737131720704

[ozbob]

Queensland Parliament Hansard
https://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/documents/hansard/2017/2017_10_12_DAILY.pdf

Ministerial Statements

Public Transport, Rail

Hon. JA TRAD (South Brisbane—ALP) (Deputy Premier, Minister for Transport and Minister for
Infrastructure and Planning) (9.42 am): The Palaszczuk government is getting on with the job of
improving front-line services by investing in public transport infrastructure. Recently the Gold Coast
Light Rail stage 2 project reached a significant milestone. On Wednesday, 20 September the first two
of the four new light rail vehicles required for stage 2 arrived at the port of Brisbane. These light rail
vehicles are now at home at the light rail depot at Southport on the Gold Coast. These four new LRVs
will increase the G:link tram fleet from 14 to 18.

Gold Coast Light Rail stage 2 is currently in the testing and commissioning phase, with trams
from the existing fleet being tested on stage 2 tracks. The arrival of the first two of four new LRVs is
great news for the Gold Coast, with light rail stage 2 well on target to be completed in time for the
Commonwealth Games in April 2018.

Still speaking of the Gold Coast, I can advise the House that the $163 million
Coomera-Helensvale duplication project was completed and commissioned over the recent Queen's
birthday long weekend and that revenue services are already rolling along this section, boosting
capacity and reliability ahead of the 2018 Gold Coast Commonwealth Games. This project has provided
a significant economic boost to the local construction industry, with over 200 jobs created. Queensland
Rail crews and contractors have delivered a collective 450,000 hours of work since the start of
construction in March last year to deliver the 8.2-kilometre heavy rail duplication, including eight new
rail bridges totalling 1.4 kilometres in length.

Whilst these two major projects might be drawing to a close, we have already started our next
major public transport infrastructure project. Work is already underway for Cross River Rail, which will
deliver jobs and faster commute times right across the South-East Queensland network.

The NGR project has also reached an important milestone and the trains are a step closer to
entering passenger service. In September I announced that the state had agreed to accept the first
NGR train after a massive amount of work had been undertaken to fix the issues that had been identified
by Queensland Rail engineers. The number of must-do action items has been reduced from more than
480 when I became minister in February to fewer than 20 now. The remaining actions relate to receiving
some final test results, certification and provision of documentation to close out queries. We are
confident that this will occur shortly. I stress, though, that the trains will not enter service until all
remaining items are closed out.

The state has also agreed on modifications to the trains to improve disability access. The
previous government's decision to change the specifications of the train left us with significant
challenges to overcome to ensure the trains were fully accessible. The state has now decided to split
the fleet of 75 trains. Thirty-five trains for long-distance services will have two toilets and 40 trains for
urban services will, like most of the existing urban fleet, operate without toilets. This is the same
configuration as QR's current fleet. The state will also redesign the layout of the toilet modules to
enhance access for people with a disability.

We have been working hard to fix our trains and build a better public transport system, and we
are making good progress. Only the Palaszczuk government—

Opposition members interjected.

Mr SPEAKER: Thank you, members.

Ms TRAD: They really ought to talk to the disability actor about why they redesigned the
specifications and made the trains less accessible by people with a disability. People with a disability
and the disability sector know very clearly who is to blame for that. Unfortunately, it will take additional
resources to fix these trains in order to make sure all Queenslanders, regardless of their ability, can
access them. We are getting on with the job of fixing the mess that the previous LNP Newman-Nicholls
government left us.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/918515643971903488

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/918518638801334272

[ozbob]

600 and not out - a record in incompetence!

Absolutely.  An appalling indictment on many.   We pay senior bureaucrats big salaries to actually perform.  Governments are elected to represent us to ensure proper policy and the like is implemented.  That has not occurred with respect to the NGR botch hey?

NGRfail + railfail = mega-clusterfuk 

And still the bumblers are in place, bumbling on ...   

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/918881086909714432

[MichaelJ]

To be honest, a passenger requiring boarding assistance may or may not be able to utilise the toilet facilities onboard an ICE, 100, 120, 160 Series IMU, so why is it suddenly a big hoo-haa?

Why is it only I'Moves complaining bitterly and all of the other disability groups working constructively with the Queensland Government?  One has to wonder whether they're aiming for personal satisfaction or greater good.

[ozbob]

^ the trains mentioned all comply with the DDA AFAIA.

Inclusion Moves ( and others)  have been working constructively with the Queensland Govt, through its agencies for years.  They were pushed aside and ignored essentially. At one point the authorities also tried to mislead the reference group with some very dubious measurements.
It was only when a Disability Consultant was brought in a few months ago that TMR started to take the non compliance seriously.

It is a very big deal indeed the non DDA compliance of the NGRs.  Hence the need for the Government (via the operator) to seek an exemption from the AHRC and come up with a rectification plan (to be completed in two years).  It is the only thing stopping the introduction of the NGR revenue services. 

This non compliance should have been addressed years ago.

Better still they should have designed trains that were actually compliant!

[InclusionMoves]

MichaelJ in addition to what Ozbob has already said let me say this, hopefully it will show why your lack of understanding of disability legislation by referencing models build years ago should lead you to either raise your knowledge before commenting or simply stick to topics you know more about. Modes of transport need only be build to standards of the day they were build. Timelines that set out percentages of fleet accessible are built into the legislation to ensure that as less desirable models are retired new models are made more accessible. Incremental improvement then occurs. Problem with NGR was that if it carried on as proposed then it would not have been incremental improvement it would have been a step backwards. As it stands at the moment if the government is granted an exemption then they will still be non compliant for 2 years.     

For the record I run a small business and have not earned 1 cent from my work on NGR, quite the opposite in fact I have lost business. I have been more outspoken than others on NGR this is true. I do not take any government funding for my business plenty of other advocates through no fault of their own rely on government funding to survive. I am truly independent.

Just to completely put to bed your argument of personal gain I actually use a wheelchair that is small enough to navigate the non compliant walkway and bathroom. I take up this fight for those that are not so lucky,

Geoff 

To be honest, a passenger requiring boarding assistance may or may not be able to utilise the toilet facilities onboard an ICE, 100, 120, 160 Series IMU, so why is it suddenly a big hoo-haa?

Why is it only Inclusion Moves complaining bitterly and all of the other disability groups working constructively with the Queensland Government?  One has to wonder whether they're aiming for personal satisfaction or greater good.

Edited: Admin

[MichaelJ]

It is admirable that you seek to have equal access for all parties.  I agree with your core goal 100 percent.  However, sometimes reality has to be considered as well.

QR, TMR, yes, I know they're a pain in the ass to deal with and proudly celebrate incompetence.

You have two main arguments (bearing in mind I skim over waffle) -
- Guard at the back is dangerous and will cause delays;
- Can't access the toilet from Car 3;

I actually have an excellent knowledge and assist passengers on and off my train every day - not just passengers in wheelchairs, but elderly, blind, deaf, cognitively impaired, etc - so let me give you a heads up.

InterCity Trains in Sydney have had the Guard at the rear of the train for decades, suburban trains for seven years.  This has had no consequence whatsoever on passengers requiring boarding assistance.  Sometimes station staff unload B/A Pax and sometimes I unload B/A Pax, it all depends on the time and location.  They have access to a passenger emergency intercom and can be monitored at all times by CCTV.  To reduce instances where B/A Pax may be over-looked, we complete a Boarding Assistance Slip and inform Customer Information for each person.  It's very similar in QR, so how can your claims of delays and dangerous be true?  They're simply not.

On our rail network, they are welcome to sit anywhere on the train but primarily sit in the sixth car/  However, due to infrastructure constraints in Brisbane, this is not possible.  I don't agree with it but it's what we have to work with.

QR operates narrow gauge rollingstock, as I'm sure you're quite aware, and this comes with design constraints.  It's not TMR/QR being nasty to passenger requiring boarding assistance, it's physics.  The train is X wide, the toilet is Y wide to accommodate a wheelchair and therefore the corridor past the toilet is quite narrow.  That's the reality of living on Earth and the laws of Physics.  I don't know one Guard who would make a passenger requiring boarding assistance feel uneasy or embarrassed for wanting to board in the car with the toilet.  The infrastructure allows for a person requiring boarding assistance to travel in Car 3 or 4 without any problems at all.  The entirety of Car 4 has longitudinal seating, so a wheelchair can access both ends of the carriage, should a passenger not wish to sit near the toilet.  Where is the issue?  There isn't any.

Can you see why I, and many other Train Crew, don't support your claims because they're just nit picking.

Hope that helps.

[InclusionMoves]

MichaelJ you assume that I actually am anti guard. Nothing could be further from the truth. Quite frankly I am sick to death of people making me out to be the bad guy on this.

I truly believe like all professions you are mostly good people that do a great job most of the time. That is my issue. Whilst train design forces a direct assistance model mistakes and complacency will always be there. QR says they also run a book of some description yet I average once a week where a guard says "oh I didn't know you were there". I only use level platforms during my trip to work thank god so can get off (I drive further to get to one mind you to avoid the problems). You say guard at rear in NSW has had no consequence the disability sector knows that to be not the case in their experience.

As for narrow gauge. QR has an exemption to certain specifications for that and yet (a) the NGR as built didn't even make those exempt specs and (b) the disability sector found a solution (not the high priced consultant) that gave them a compliant narrow gauge design, they just wasted 2 years arguing before realizing we were both right and serious about challenging them as Ozbob explained, so that argument is invalid.

Geoff

It is admirable that you seek to have equal access for all parties.  I agree with your core goal 100 percent.  However, sometimes reality has to be considered as well.

QR, TMR, yes, I know they're a pain in the ass to deal with and proudly celebrate incompetence.

You have two main arguments (bearing in mind I skim over waffle) -
- Guard at the back is dangerous and will cause delays;
- Can't access the toilet from Car 3;

I actually have an excellent knowledge and assist passengers on and off my train every day - not just passengers in wheelchairs, but elderly, blind, deaf, cognitively impaired, etc - so let me give you a heads up.

InterCity Trains in Sydney have had the Guard at the rear of the train for decades, suburban trains for seven years.  This has had no consequence whatsoever on passengers requiring boarding assistance.  Sometimes station staff unload B/A Pax and sometimes I unload B/A Pax, it all depends on the time and location.  They have access to a passenger emergency intercom and can be monitored at all times by CCTV.  To reduce instances where B/A Pax may be over-looked, we complete a Boarding Assistance Slip and inform Customer Information for each person.  It's very similar in QR, so how can your claims of delays and dangerous be true?  They're simply not.

On our rail network, they are welcome to sit anywhere on the train but primarily sit in the sixth car/  However, due to infrastructure constraints in Brisbane, this is not possible.  I don't agree with it but it's what we have to work with.

QR operates narrow gauge rollingstock, as I'm sure you're quite aware, and this comes with design constraints.  It's not TMR/QR being nasty to passenger requiring boarding assistance, it's physics.  The train is X wide, the toilet is Y wide to accommodate a wheelchair and therefore the corridor past the toilet is quite narrow.  That's the reality of living on Earth and the laws of Physics.  I don't know one Guard who would make a passenger requiring boarding assistance feel uneasy or embarrassed for wanting to board in the car with the toilet.  The infrastructure allows for a person requiring boarding assistance to travel in Car 3 or 4 without any problems at all.  The entirety of Car 4 has longitudinal seating, so a wheelchair can access both ends of the carriage, should a passenger not wish to sit near the toilet.  Where is the issue?  There isn't any.

Can you see why I, and many other Train Crew, don't support your claims because they're just nit picking.

Hope that helps.

[ozbob]

The NGR trains are to be modified.  The toilets to be made DDA compliant and car 3 and 4 each to have one.  So it is possible to have DDA compliance on the 3' 6". 

35 NGR trains will have two toilets.  40 will now not have toilets.  This is much in line with the rest of the fleet, some units with toilets, others without.

The cost of this is at least $100 Million for a contract variation ( as stated by the Deputy Premier, another $50 Million for some other changes to the cabs I think from memory).

Government would not do this unless it was necessary.

How the assisted boarding will work with the guard at rear (6 car) is yet to be tested on the QR network.  The plan broadly is for the guard to be involved only when station staff not available as I understand it.  There has been a number of issues with PWD being left on trains etc. even with guards in the centre, so the PWD community is naturally a bit apprehensive.

[MichaelJ]

I'm glad to hear you're not anti-Guard, but I'm curious to know examples of poor experiences B/A Pax have had.  Any operational issues, of which an over-carried B/A Pax would be considered one, are reported and I haven't observed any in my five years with the railway.

So what was the cheaper option, bearing in mind, two toilets per train isn't the correct option.  I'll tell you what the correct option is, sitting in Car 3 or 4 depending on which car the toilet is in.

[InclusionMoves]

Without a non compliant walkway between 3 and 4, 2 toilets is the only compliant non discriminatory option. Unless they want to argue unjustifiable hardship defense then cheaper actually doesn't come into it. And even if they went that way the cost of the delay, the redesign, the legal fee's, consultant fee's etc have added more onto the budget than would have ever been added had the proper seriousness been applied with respect to standards that any designer and operator should have known applied in the first place (which would have led them to the 2 toilet design) well before a tool was even touched to start construction.     

Geoff

I'm glad to hear you're not anti-Guard, but I'm curious to know examples of poor experiences B/A Pax have had.  Any operational issues, of which an over-carried B/A Pax would be considered one, are reported and I haven't observed any in my five years with the railway.

So what was the cheaper option, bearing in mind, two toilets per train isn't the correct option.  I'll tell you what the correct option is, sitting in Car 3 or 4 depending on which car the toilet is in.

[ozbob]

I am not sure if you aware MJ but the actual toilet itself as is at present, is also not compliant.  Not possible for certain pax to move from mobility device to the pan.  This is why the toilets themselves are being modified.  The powers to be decided on overcoming the access problems by fitting both cars 3 and 4 with a modified loo.  At least there is some redundancy there.  A lot of toilets on the present fleet are often out of service due to idiots blocking them etc.

I suppose the biggest challenge once the units all modified in service will be getting the toilet equipped trains on the right services?   

[MichaelJ]

Geoff -
I'm not clear on how two toilets suddenly makes the train compliant.  Car 4 is fully DDA compliant, if on the day it's Car 3, sit there.  It's just not an issue.  Now, more than half of the units won't have toilets because of this perspective with little substance.

If I were the Minister, I'd have done the old childhood argument solution of 'can't share the front, no one sits in the front' and removed toilets from all trains.  Why?  Because it is no different to the current situation.

Bob -
I definitely think that the toilet design should be reviewed if it is not DDA complaint and I accept that two toilets has some redundancy.  I can also appreciate that toilets on trains are more important in Brisbane because QR Stations aren't staffed for anywhere near the span of hours they are down here in Sydney.

I fear that with half of the fleet missing a toilet, you know which ones will go down/up the Coast and which ones will go to Doomben!  QR seriously hasn't got a good track record of organising a p%ss-up in a brewery.

[InclusionMoves]

If there is only a toilet in one of the 2 accessible carriages then either gov would have had to rely on providing direct access to toilet by assisting someone who had been loaded into the carriage without or provide 2 toilets. Not sure what isn't clear?

[MichaelJ]

There isn't anything unclear - the person sits in the fully DDA complaint car with the toilet - be it three or four.  There's no need for two toilets, other than redundancy as Bob said, which isn't a disability issue.

[InclusionMoves]

It is a potentially discriminatory service if able bodied passengers can use gangway to gain entry to carriage with bathroom yet a person with disability can not.

[ozbob]

Days since NGR 701 towed to Wulkuraka

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/919324475392344065

[JimmyP]

It is a potentially discriminatory service if able bodied passengers can use gangway to gain entry to carriage with bathroom yet a person with disability can not.

I think what Michael is getting at is:
If the wheelchair passengers are always boarded in the car with the toilet (be it the third or fourth car at the time), then there is no need for the wheelchair passenger to use the intercar gangway to access the toilet at all, hence negating the problem.

[InclusionMoves]

And what I am saying is there is no guarantee this can occur with only 2 wheelchair spots each carriage sooner or later they will be full and the leas preferable carriage sans toilet will need to be used. It is still an accessible carriages under the legislation so still needs access to amenities

Geoff

[ozbob]

And what I am saying is there is no guarantee this can occur with only 2 wheelchair spots each carriage sooner or later they will be full and the leas preferable carriage sans toilet will need to be used. It is still an accessible carriages under the legislation so still needs access to amenities

Geoff

Yep.  That is why the Government on advice has determined that both the accessible carriages will now have a toilet, as the access issues between cars 3 and 4 were not able to be overcome without massive expenditure etc.   

These trains will be in service for at least 32 years.  It is really important that the non DDA compliance is addressed, and it will now, albeit within a two year time frame.

[MichaelJ]

I'm sure you're quite familiar with the DDA and hence would know that it describes actions in reasonable steps.  Just as a many platforms only have one lift, the train only has one DDA carriage.  Sometimes the lift may be inoperable due to maintenance, sometimes the toilet may be unavailable due to maintenance as well.  That's life, we don't live in a vacuum.

What I think is discriminatory, is that all passengers occupying seats will be squashed because the seat width has been reduced to allow a wheelchair down every aisle.

Don't forget, with respect to Guards/Crew, there is an Assistance Request Button for any passenger requiring boarding assistance to be in direct communication with Crew.

Just out of curiosity, because I've not heard them say anything, what's Sporting Wheelies position on this topic?

Just an FYI - I'm writing an article on the 700 Series for Railway Digest and I'm quite inclined to gloss over this 'issue' due to the highly frivolous nature of the claims.  As far as I am concerned, reasonable steps, as outlined in the act, were taken and this is just brick walling an already troubled project.

[MichaelJ]

*rustles pages*

The DDA Car with Toilet, Car 4, has allocated spaces "specifically designated" for six wheelchairs.  The longitudinal seating allows for more wheelchairs if required.

The DDA Car, Car 3, has allocated spaces "specifically designated" for six wheelchairs.

I highly doubt that a train would have six wheelchairs onboard, let alone 12.  Therefore, reasonable steps, one car with a toilet - TICK!

[InclusionMoves]

First of all Michael you can write what you like I absolutely could not care. Not sure how you would think otherwise. Our negotiations are with the Qld government. An org that has shown they are not in the habit of changing things unless they absolutely have to by the way. I know I am persuasive but quite certain I haven't pushed them to change anything that they absolutely didn't have to due to legal reasons. Not sure how an article in Railway Digest could either help nor hinder our case. Especially given your lack of understanding of the issue.

As for sporting wheelies thoughts on the issue. I assume you mention them to try in some small way to show you "understand" the disability sector. For everyone else they are a sporting organisation that exists to bring sport and rec opportunities to people with disability. Not sure of their relevance to transport but feel free to educate me I know you will.

Attached a diagram of MA MB (3 and 4) cars from the current design (pre any changes talked about in media as they are not released publicly yet in drawing form) showing disability seating spread through both. Just to put your frankly boring argument to bed.           

[ozbob]

You need to press your case with the Government MJ.  Although probably too late now, they have determined their course of action ( no harm in trying though ).

They looked at the situation and decided to make both cars DDA toilet compliant. They had a lot of advice, including the former Sydney Trains Manager Disability Services ( M. Stack), and the QR Reference Group.   They could have said the car with the toilet is the only DDA car but they didn't.

Personally I am happy with the outcome under the circumstances.  It would have been a lot better had the trains been properly designed in the first place, but I guess you know why they weren't essentially.

[MichaelJ]

Your own diagrams even show six wheelchairs ...

You tell me, then, which other advocate groups, other than yours, have said anything regarding the trains.  Given your response, it's clear I can't even think of one.

[MichaelJ]

Personally I am happy with the outcome under the circumstances.  It would have been a lot better had the trains been properly designed in the first place, but I guess you know why they weren't essentially.

So much could have been done better, Bob, it's such a sad state of affairs.  In an ideal world, fully raised platforms for all station upgrades.  That said, the product itself isn't bad - you simply can't go wrong with Hitachi traction.  The seats will be high-backed but squashy due to the 'DDA' compliance is really the only issue.  The new PID showing greater information, passenger counts, effective seating layout, more efficient acceleration/braking are all excellent features that will make (most) people happy with the new train.

Putting two toilets dead smack in the middle of the train probably wasn't the greatest idea.  Having them at the A end of the car, instead of the B end of the car would have been more practical and centred - but it all costs money.

[InclusionMoves]

Yeah sorry was typing on phone when I hit 2 by mistake hence got off the couch just for you and put diagram.

I (through Inclusion Moves) am the designated public spokesperson for the groups that makes up the Qld Rail Accessibility Reference group. So of course I make the public comment. Qld Gov tried to divide and conquer too and it didn't work so you can feel free to try. Simple fact is I grew up playing professional sport mate so am used to doing media, so I got that job. Other people do up our letters. Others do up our diagrams etc. Division of skills. Its quite simple.

However again just to prove you wrong. Have a scroll through this, about 2 thirds of the way through Queenslanders with disability network state they are not convinced the changes announced will fix is the issues either. Can't wait for you to write to them and explain how they are wrong also. http://www.qdn.org.au/all-blog-posts/bi-monthly-update-september-2017.aspx