New Generation Rollingstock

[ozbob]

Consider this, and it is to be hoped that the AHRC considers it ... this government and its agencies, TMR and QR, have worked and schemed to explore every possible avenue to avoid a DDA compliant fix to the NGR trains.  Every means of avoiding their responsibilities under law.  This is from a state government too (governments make laws).  Months and months of inaction has followed, with consequences flowing from keeping an ageing fleet running while the NGR mess festers.  The only legal avenue open to them, an exemption, is being sought.  Is anyone of us 'exempted from the law' when we build a garage on our neighbour's land?  Or speed past a school? etc.  How is it that effective government in Queensland has got so sloppy?

It makes me both very sad and very very angry the gross incompetence with the NGR project.  The group that put the design together should hang their heads in shame.  TMR have been tardy and incompetent IMHO.  Both Governments hopeless.

The reality is that the AHRC will probably grant them an exemption based on their rectification plan, despite the fact years late ...

Consider this:

*

However, the Commission has been prepared to grant exemptions on condition that the applicant makes and meets commitments to improve access or opportunity within a reasonable period. To grant an exemption in such circumstances (rather than leaving an applicant to raise possible hardship defences in response to complaints if access is not provided) can be appropriate as a means of promoting achievement of the objects of the Act.

* https://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-work/legal/exemptions/exemption-applications-under-disability-discrimination-act-1992-cth#current

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/912718361041281024

[InclusionMoves]

For those of you that wonder whether PWD are making too much of a fuss about guard relocation, don't get me wrong I understand how it could seem that way. I offer you this email I received this morning from a commuter.

"I travelled from Altandi Station at 6.04am this morning transferring at Central Station at 6.33 to the departing 6.37am Caboolture service arriving at 7.29am.  The guard and some addition QR staff got out of the cabin and proceeded to walk away from the train.  I realized they hadn't seen me and yelled through the carriage doors to gain some attention.  A female QR staff person who had disembarked from the cabin heard me and approached the carriage doors and said 'where did you get on?'  I replied at Central Station! She said 'where did you want to get off?' 'we are at Caboolture Station – I hope you wanted to get off here?' I said 'fortunately. Yes.'  The lady then said to the guard 'did you know he was here?  I think his reply was no.' then the guard proceeded to get the ramp into place offering his apologies.

QR tells the community and myself that these discriminatory incidents occurring for passengers who require 'assisted boarding' can be avoided with 'QR's communication strategy' this clearly isn't consistent in its delivery.  This experience is repeated frequently and has been reported and documented by myself and likely others.  This occurs today with the guard located metres away from a designated boarding point?

What will be the passengers' experience when the NGR rolls out?"

Geoff

[Gazza]

Why don't our trains have a PWD button like the ones in Melbourne?

[300LA]

Saw 705 in Mayne Yards this morning. It no longer has the QR 'test train' markings on it. (Assuming it did have them at some point)

[verbatim9]

I have seen a couple of NGR trains testing without the test train banner. The trains that I seen without the banner have "do not board" around the doors.

[red dragin]

Mate of mine called me today asking "what is a test train" (he is licensed to work with high voltage electricity )

He didn't see the number but obviously spotted an NGR in livery around Ipswich today.

[InclusionMoves]

Am from Brisbane Gazza tell me more about this button?

Geoff

Why don't our trains have a PWD button like the ones in Melbourne?

[Stillwater]

From PT> website:

Some low floor trams have buttons that alert the driver to activate the 'bridging plate' to bridge the gap between the tram and the platform.  On other low floor trams, a specially marked call button overrides the automatic door closing mechanism to allow passengers using wheelchairs or mobility aids extra time to enter or exit the tram. These trams also have an external door release (a blue button) to help passengers using wheelchairs.

https://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/getting-around/accessible-transport/accessible-trams

[InclusionMoves]

Ah ok so shoots a ramp out similar to bus. All for tech like this but no one wants to pay for the R and D to make it happen so train transport is fully independent. Much harder to implement on higher and lower platforms, curved platforms etc. Most definitely wish list stuff though. That is the whole thing with the guard providing assistance. There are options where they could be taken away but all cost money to implement. No one takes a long term enough view at it to make the cost/benefit work,   

Geoff

[red dragin]

Ah ok so shoots a ramp out similar to bus. All for tech like this but no one wants to pay for the R and D to make it happen so train transport is fully independent. Much harder to implement on higher and lower platforms, curved platforms etc. Most definitely wish list stuff though. That is the whole thing with the guard providing assistance. There are options where they could be taken away but all cost money to implement. No one takes a long term enough view at it to make the cost/benefit work,   

Geoff

It doesn't have to be be more than a light on a console though. Fit a button to the 3/4 carriage where the PWD are located. Push it like the next stop button on a bus. Guard gets a light & chime to say assistance required, person doesn't get forgotten.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/914533757297790976

[petey3801]

Why don't our trains have a PWD button like the ones in Melbourne?

NGRs do.

[ozbob]

There is something very seriously wrong with an administration that takes around two years to accept that the NGR trains are not DDA compliant, and then makes a rushed application to the AHRC for an exemption in the shadows of the Commonwealth Games let alone a rail network collapse.  I am really lost for words these days at the utter incompetence by the project management team.

[ozbob]

Understand the first NGR train has been approved. Guess they are now waiting for AHRC exemption.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/915048665873489920

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

4th October 2017

Coomera to Helensvale Duplication commissioned!

Good Morning,

Congratulations to Queensland Rail and contractors, and all involved with the project on the commissioning over the weekend of the Coomera to Helensvale Duplication project.
( https://www.queenslandrail.com.au/Community/Projects/Pages/Coomera-to-Helensvale.aspx ).

RAIL Back on Track members report the journey on the newly completed new duplicated rail line yesterday was smooth and swift.  This was an important track amplification project and means the line now is duplicated all the way to Varsity Lakes.  This will allow an improved frequency and more reliable running.

The Sunshine Coast Line also needs to be upgraded.  We note this is the basis of a recent LNP Petition ' We Need Two Tracks - Beerburrum to Nambour ' > https://www.betterqueensland.org.au/twotracks
Despite the business case being completed last year for the first stage - Beerburrum to Landsborough North, the present Government has done nothing.

Another point of interest, we understand the first New Generation Rollingstock train has been finally accepted for introduction to passenger revenue service.  The Government and Operator are now waiting for an exemption from the Australian Human Rights Commission to run the trains in a non DDA compliant condition.  It is utterly inconceivable and unacceptable how the Government and  DTMR have sat on the non-compliance of these trains for years and in the last gasp have now been forced to apply for an exemption. Clearly, the initial design of the trains was botched.  Nothing short of a Commission of Inquiry will get to the bottom of this fiasco.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/915253158368075776

[Stillwater]

^ Re NGR and DDA compliance ... the government's actions showed that, by putting the DDA compliance issue last to be addressed (or not fixed for the time being), it is snubbing its nose at the Law and doing a disservice to people with a disability.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/915688220993523712

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

6th October 2017

Next Generation Rollingstock a.k.a. Not Going Right (NGR) trains - any progress?

Good Morning,

Any progress with the appointment of the Project Director (temp) NGR project?

Any progress with the application to the AHRC for a DDA exemption because the NGR trains are not DDA compliant?

Mechanical issues still happening regularly on the SEQ rail network  with the aging train fleet ( https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=1862.msg198505#msg198505 ) causing cancellations, delays and altered services.

Queensland Citizens are furious that a PPP costing the state $4.4 Billion has been so badly botched.  Both the ALP and LNP are trying to bury the failure.  The Queensland Audit Office turned down our request for an audit into this shambles.  The Government dismisses our calls for a Commission of Inquiry to find out why this project went off the rails.  The LNP will not produce documentation that they signed off on when in Government.

Not much transparency in Queensland transport circles is there?

Hey ho, off to bury another botch we go!

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/915982874376994817

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/915984320476585985

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/915991344375402496

[Stillwater]

No doubt the single NGR train waiting at Mayne to go into service is a 'PR vehicle' -- ready for a big media launch and run to the Gold Coast for another big launch -- carrying the Premier and Ms Trad et al.  It will have less to do with conveying people quickly and efficiently.  Full bladders are banned!

As with most infrastructure these days, politics is played hard and long, and with contempt of the public and its needs.

[#Metro]

Isn't that what someone suggested on this forum?

QLD Govt will meet their promise by placing a single NGR train into service, with the toilet locked to sidestep DDA.

Only Rhonda could think something like that.

[ozbob]

It could be weeks yet (months?) before an exemption is obtained.  The application must first go to the community for consultation for a number of weeks.  That point has not been reached (we are monitoring the AHRC website).  I think I will make a personal submission too.  It is always possible (albeit unlikely) that the AHRC could decline the application for exemption in the first instance. 

I don't know if the Queensland Government can request a fast response?  There might be provision for that, but after sitting on it for 2 years would be hard to entertain it hey?

This is a major major mess this.  And still the bumblers, bumble on ...

Footnote: Inclusion Moves made a request to DTMR for a copy of the Application for DDA Exemption for NGR document, but this was refused. FYI.

https://twitter.com/InclusionMoves/status/915775945851539457

[mufreight]

I t seems that the Government and Ms Trad are doing a con job on the public with the NGR trains and the disability compliance, yes 24 of the new trains will have two toilets BUT the toilet modules themselves will not be altered so the problem of not sufficient width alongside the pedestal to allow a person to transfer from a wheelchair on to the pedestal and not sufficient room to turn a wheelchair around inside the toilet module.  A continuation of the TMR incompetence.

[#Metro]

Try sending the information request to the AHRC instead (the receiving end).

If that didn't work, there is the Office of the Federal information commissioner.

[ozbob]

Of the present 75 sets it is now the plan to ultimately modify them so that 35 sets have two toilets and the remaining 40 sets without toilets.

[mufreight]

BUT the toilets themselves will remain NON COMPLIANT

[BrizCommuter]

Of the present 75 sets it is now the plan to ultimately modify them so that 35 sets have two toilets and the remaining 40 sets without toilets.

Which will leave a 40 year legacy of no toilets on up to hour long suburban commutes.

[ozbob]

Yep! The biggest cluster-fuk of the modern era.

[mufreight]

Apparently TMR has already refused a FOI request for the information that they are submitting to the Human Rights Commission in their application for an exemption from the Disability Discrimination Compliance but the resolution of the non compliance apparently only relates to the access between the two carriages and access to the toilets themselves but not to the room within the toilet modules themselves and room to turn a wheelchair within the module or room to transfer from a wheelchair on to the toilet pedestal which means that the toilet modules will remain non compliant.

[ozbob]

^ it has been reported that the toilets will be altered.

" ... Toilets on the trains will now be redesigned to accommodate people with a disability, but will only be fitted on 35 of the trains used for long distance trips. ... "

From Couriermail --> Queensland Rail's new rollingstock to cost $150 million to fix design flaws

[Stillwater]

So, the cost of the toilets in the 40 trains sets that won't have toilets will be redirected to fixing the 35 non-compliant units (presumably those still on the drawing board in India) just so that the state government can say that 'we have fixed the problem at no additional cost to the taxpayer'.  Lots of pollie backslapping.   Wack them into service before the election (subject to AHRC approval), run them everywhere, pics of Labor members and candidates at stations with the Premier and Ms Trad ..... 'this is what Labor is delivering for a station near you' local stories.       It's a farce isn't it?

[ozbob]

For a matter of interest, it has been suggested to me that the cost of moving the Guards to the centre of the NGR and fixing the toilets properly was in the order of $400 Million.  They choose to not do that, and have come up with the plan we are now faced with ($150 Million plus ongoing costs for additional staff at stations to provide PWD assistance as required).  Considering the costs and blunder over the longer term, I think they should have gone for the $400 Million option myself.   What a legacy to leave our children ...

I think AHRC should be made aware of this.

Lordy, this makes me mad this NGR botch ...   

[ozbob]

A reminder of the magnitude of this NGR botch ...

Assume Exemption applied for on the 25th September.

Couriermail --> Train disability issues force Palaszczuk Government to seek exemption ahead of Commonwealth Games

THE Palaszczuk Government will be forced to apply to the nation's Human Rights Commission for an exemption to strict disability access rules under plans to roll out desperately needed new trains ahead of next year's Commonwealth Games.

Deputy Premier Jackie Trad has written to disability advocates of its plans to apply to the Australian Human Rights Commission in a bid to solve a looming transport crisis should its heavily delayed $4.4 billion project not be ready in time for the April event.

In the letter, obtained by The Courier-Mail, Ms Trad says it would redesign non-compliant toilets on 35 of the NGR trains, but warns the changes would take up to 24 months to complete.

The toilets will be redesigned to accommodate people with a disability, but will only be fitted on 35 of the trains used for long distance trips, with toilets removed from the remaining 40 trains.

"While this occurs, the existing NGR trains will enter passenger service on the network, so they can be used to increase capacity for the 2018 Gold Coast Commonwealth Games," Ms Trad says in the letter to disability advocates.

A spokesman for Ms Trad yesterday confirmed it would make an application to the Human Rights Commission for a temporary exemption to address "noncompliances" on Monday.

Disability advocate Geoff Trappett blasted the decision to run non-compliant trains in the meantime in order to meet the Games' deadline.

He also criticised a decision not to rectify design problems relating to the relocation of train guards to the rear of the train, creating problems helping disabled people board.

QR CEO Nick Easy said platform boarding assistants would instead be used.

But Mr Trappett warned this would only increase instances of disabled people being left behind on station platforms.

Ms Trad yesterday revealed that the design changes, including modifying the toilets, would cost the State Government $150 million to fix, but would not blow out the existing project budget.

She said she expected the first train to be in service within weeks after it was given provisional acceptance this week, pending the rectification of 22 outstanding minor issues.

It comes more than 2½ years after the first of the trains arrived in Brisbane under the project.

But Ms Trad could not specify how many of the trains would be running by the time of the Commonwealth Games.

"They need to all pass their testing. We are not going to cut corners," she said.

NGR orders were halted by Ms Trad in March over concerns about issues, including train aisle widths being too narrow, non-compliant toilets and driver line-of-sight problems.

Ms Trad said the resolution this week would lift the halt on train orders under the program.

[#Metro]

So, the RTI request was denied for disability advocates, but approved for CM??

Can't say how many will enter service. Does that mean a grand total of one??

Rhonda from Utopia must be busy!!

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

9th October 2017

Next Generation Rollingstock a.k.a. Not Going Right (NGR) trains - any progress?

Good Morning,

We assume the application to the Australian Human Rights Commission for an exemption from the DDA for the New Generation Rollingstock (NGR) a.k.a Not Going Right trains, was submitted around 25th September.  Two weeks ago.  As we understand it, the application has to be given an opportunity for public consultation before a determination.  Could be a while yet before the NGR trains are in revenue passenger service.

DTMR has resisted attempts by Disability Advocates at obtaining a copy of the Application for Exemption from the DDA document.   Most things with the NGR project have been secret and a serious botch, no great surprise then.

We repeat our call for a Commission of Inquiry into this NGR mess.

The former Newman LNP Government, the DTMR, and the present Palaszczuk Government must all be held to account.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

6th October 2017

Next Generation Rollingstock a.k.a. Not Going Right (NGR) trains - any progress?

Good Morning,

Any progress with the appointment of the Project Director (temp) NGR project?

Any progress with the application to the AHRC for a DDA exemption because the NGR trains are not DDA compliant?

Mechanical issues still happening regularly on the SEQ rail network  with the aging train fleet ( https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=1862.msg198505#msg198505 ) causing cancellations, delays and altered services.

Queensland Citizens are furious that a PPP costing the state $4.4 Billion has been so badly botched.  Both the ALP and LNP are trying to bury the failure.  The Queensland Audit Office turned down our request for an audit into this shambles.  The Government dismisses our calls for a Commission of Inquiry to find out why this project went off the rails.  The LNP will not produce documentation that they signed off on when in Government.

Not much transparency in Queensland transport circles is there?

Hey ho, off to bury another botch we go!

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/917062291983450112

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/917063240298913793

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/917067113147252736

[ozbob]

Days since NGR 701 towed to Wulkuraka