New Generation Rollingstock

[ozbob]

Back in 1964 Dr Eric Berne wrote a book about interpersonal relationships called "Games people play". Amongst the many games are two called 'Aint it awful' and 'Now I've got you, you son of a B***h'. 'Aint it awful' is when a bunch of people sit around and complain about something that has gone wrong, describing all the errors that have occurred, but not offering a viable solution. 'Now I've got you, you son of a B***h' is the game played when someone has made an identifiable error and others decide to launch an all out assault on the perpetrator also without offering a solution.  Neither of these games lead to a solution until at least one party adopts the 'ADULT' role and makes a compromise.
I suggest that A PWD organisation makes the offer below:
We, the PWD community, recognise the following:
1  The Commonwealth games is coming and it is not in anyone's interest for there to be transport issues during the games.
2  The NGR trains are not DDA compliant and are not likely to be made compliant by the time of the games.
3  The trains cannot be used because of the DDA Act.
4  The trains are required for the games.
In light of the above, we, the PWD community, are willing to discuss relaxation of what ever rules are required so that the current batch of delivered trains can be put into service. However, we would like bi-partisan commitment that all future deliveries will be DDA compliant and that this batch will be refurbished to full compliance at a later date.

My gut feeling is that this is just a dream

In the end it is up to the AHRC at this point.  If they grant an exemption then the trains might well run non-compliant.

The AHRC may not grant an exemption for the reasons summarised in the mail out this morning (see post below).

What is particularly difficult SABB for the PWD community is that they raised the issues years ago (2015 in fact).  It was only recently when a DDA consultant was brought in that TMR finally acknowledged they had significant DDA issues. There was a question on this the last Parliamentary Estimates by the way. 

I intend to wait to see what the AHRC does.  If they grant an exemption then I expect the various PWD groups will consider the ruling carefully and may well decide to accept it.  They may not.  Time will tell hey?

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

23rd September 2017

Is an exemption for non DDA compliant NGR trains really going to fly?

Good Morning,

A lot of ' he said, she said ' going on about the botched Not Going Right a.k.a New Generation Rollingstock (NGR) trains hey?  Pathetic stuff!

A proper inquiry into this worst ever failure in public transport in Queensland is needed. Or perhaps now that the additional monetary costs being identified (at least $150 Million of OUR MONEY ) is required to be spent ' fixing ' the NGR trains the Queensland Audit Office and the Queensland Auditor General might reconsider our request for an audit into this mess?

Confirmed in the Couriermail this morning that the Government has applied to the Australian Human Rights Commission for an exemption to run the NGR trains in a NON DDA Compliant condition.  Hardly satisfactory and we share the concerns of the PWD advocates.
(See Couriermail --> Train disability issues force Palaszczuk Government to seek exemption ahead of Commonwealth Games)

However let's consider these points:

DDA exemption is as we understand it, is for transitioning older non-compliant operations created under old laws to new and compliant operations under new laws for purely practical and economic reasons. This is NOT the case for a new DDA non-compliant footbridge at a station for example as is being foisted on the community at Banyo rail station, and is definitely not the case for a NEW set of trains that should have been manufactured according to the law on the books at the time.  It would be no surprise to us if the exemption is declined and even challenged if granted.  Where does that leave the rail network?

The fact that they need to get an exemption to introduce the NGR trains in country, into passenger revenue service just highlights the fundamental issues with this project.

1.  Why were non-DDA compliant trains ordered?  This is just mind boggling  to contemplate in today's world.

2.  Why did TMR sit on it and do nothing to address the DDA issues until they brought in a consultant some months ago now and it was clear they had major issues.  This was despite concerned stakeholders pointing out for years the problems.

3.  They are in the process of appointing a NGR Project Director (Temp) now - after all this time.  Why was this not done years ago?

End result is terrible.  40 of the expected 75 NGR trains will now not have toilets.  The other 35 will have two to get around the accessibility issues between cars 3 and 4. PWD are not happy with the compromise solutions.

And yet, the same bureaucratic bumblers are still in place bumbling.  Appalling, even for Queensland.  Where one does expect the very mediocre, and is surprised when things do go well ( which should actually be the norm).

Unless there is a proper inquiry and/or audit into this botched NGR project the failings will not be properly identified and the mistakes can and probably will occur again.

Good luck!  We are going to need it.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

Media release 15 July 2017 re-released 22 September 2017

Queensland: Call for a commission of Inquiry into the New Generation Rollingstock Project

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has called for a Commission of Inquiry into the botched New Generation Rollingstock train project.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"It is disturbing that Queensland's transport authorities, lead by the incompetent former Newman  LNP Government, have managed to order new trains, the New Generation Rollingstock trains, that are not compliant with the Disability Discrimination Act (DDA) (1).

"Equally perplexing is the fact that it took nearly two years for the Department of Transport and Main Roads to acknowledge that the trains are not compliant (2).  Disability Advocates have been pressing this for around two years now. Valuable time has been wasted as the trains languish out at Wulkuraka, and Transport and Main Roads personnel remained in denial.

"RAIL Back On Track has previously made a request to the Queensland Auditor General to have this projected audited. This was denied.

"There is little recourse now other than a full Commission of Inquiry.  It is clear to us that the secrecy around this project is clearly designed to protect failure within the Government bureaucracy.

"It is clear that we are in a major rail meltdown with no resolution in sight. There are 15 non DDA compliant NGR trains at Wulkuraka and the rest (60) are overseas because importation of the new trains was ceased last April. Queensland Rail's service delivery is plagued by constant mechanical issues with the aging train fleet, which causes ongoing service cancellations and delays, let alone the reductions in service already impacting severely in SEQ.  The situation is very, very grim.

"The inevitable public transport network collapse during the Commonwealth Games will be very embarrassing to say the least.

"We call on the Government to form a Commission Inquiry into this major failure.

"The public deserve to know the level of incompetence that is transport policy in Queensland."

References:

1. Media releases from Inclusion Moves - a number
https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3706.msg195056#msg195056

2. Interview Geoff Trappett OAM Inclusion Moves with Steve Austin ABC Radio Brisbane concerning DDA issues with NGR trains
https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3706.msg195217#msg195217

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

[SABB]

What option is best for Queensland
1 PWD organisations say to the AHRC that they will support a compromise solution to get the NGR trains into operation
or
2 PWD say nothing except that they want DDA compliant trains.
or
3 PWD make no comment either way.

[#Metro]

Australian Human Rights Commission DDA Exemptions

- The law simply empowers the HRC to decide whether an exemption is granted or not

- The HRC has guidelines on how to make a decision (didn't find the document for this)

- BCC has an exemption for a handful of old buses still in use

- An exemption may be granted for up to 5 years


IMO there are grounds to reject the application. Simply that it was the government's deliberate action to buy non-DDA compliant vehicles.

This is proven by the simple fact that previous purchases of trains or trams have been DDA compliant. It would also set a nasty precedent -

"incompetence" should not be a valid ground for exemption.


In addition to this, running the train with DDA-noncompliant toilets is discriminatory on the grounds that able-bodied people would be able to

use it, while PWD not. What are PWD supposed to do when they are on a Gold Coast EXPRESS train that just left the Brisbane CBD and they

need to pee?? Do they press the emergency help button??


Human Rights Commission DDA
https://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-work/legal/exemptions/exemption-applications-under-disability-discrimination-act-1992-cth#current

[InclusionMoves]

Typically AHRC exemptions are very hard to fight. Doesn't mean we won't try as there is unique circumstances here in that they were warned and did nothing. Normally exemptions are put in under more moral circumstances hence they get up. I won't have it that it's good for QLD if PWD stay quiet. That is exactly why we end up here again on another issue.

Geoff

[#Metro]

Queensland is the land of cut corners.

They can't even get new train platforms straight (and high level).

[SABB]

I'll go back to my original comment.  All I see is the same games being played.

[ozbob]

Typically AHRC exemptions are very hard to fight. Doesn't mean we won't try as there is unique circumstances here in that they were warned and did nothing. Normally exemptions are put in under more moral circumstances hence they get up. I won't have it that it's good for QLD if PWD stay quiet. That is exactly why we end up here again on another issue.

Geoff

+1

[SurfRail]

I'll go back to my original comment.  All I see is the same games being played.

They will keep being played until the government learns its lesson and develops the institutional competence to stop this from happening.  Caving in does not assist anybody's long term interest.

[ozbob]

Queensland is the land of cut corners.

They can't even get new train platforms straight (and high level).

Half baked projects, have long term consequences ... 

[ozbob]

I'll go back to my original comment.  All I see is the same games being played.

They will keep being played until the government learns its lesson and develops the institutional competence to stop this from happening.  Caving in does not assist anybody's long term interest.

+1

[ozbob]

For those interested

Temporary exemptions under the Disability Discrimination Act 1992 (Cth) Guidelines

> https://www.humanrights.gov.au/temporary-exemptions-under-disability-discrimination-act-1992-cth

Available as a PDF > here!

Available as a WORD Doc > here!

Note: Can I seek review of the Commission's decision?

Any person whose interests are affected by a decision of the Commission regarding an application for exemption may apply to the Administrative Appeals Tribunal for a review of the decision.

[BrizCommuter]

Queensland is the land of cut corners.

They can't even get new train platforms straight (and high level).

Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...

Wonder if Peter Beattie is regretting not quadding the Gold Coast/Beenleigh Line corridor?

[ozbob]

I have saved the NGR description page at https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Projects/Name/N/New-Generation-Rollingstock/About-the-NGR-trains for interest.  No doubt will change soon .. 

https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Projects/Name/N/New-GenerationRollingstock/About-the-NGR-trains
Accessed 1420 23rd September 2017 > here! PDF

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/911991498090020865

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/911992127961186304

[ozbob]

I am hearing still significant issues with the NGRs apart from the DDA problems. 
Apparently the Consortium has not managed to run a NGR for 500km continuously,
doors open and closing at all stations, without fault.  Also concerns with seating and general seat layout.

:conf

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/912125482329505792

[ozbob]

Interview on ABC Radio Brisbane 25th September 2017,  Steve Austin and Geoff Trappett re DDA issues with NGR trains and Banyo footbridge towards the end.

Click --> here !  MP3 15.4MB

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/912144170067755008

[ArchieLuxury]

It is my understanding that the first of the New Gen trains has been signed off for passenger service.
The first train will be in traffic for November 2017, to coincide with the state election campaign.

Toilets will only be on 23 of the 75 New Gen trains.  It is a lucky dip if you get a train with a shitter.

ALP will not announce this until November in the lead up to the state election.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7xaIdz7zq0&feature=youtu.be

[SurfRail]

Toilets will only be on 23 of the 75 New Gen trains.  It is a lucky dip if you get a train with a shitter.

At least that will be no worse than current.  I'd estimate my service has a functional lav less than 1/3rd the time even now.

[ozbob]

35 of the NGRs will have toilets, 40 not has been the advice from Government.

[ozbob]

Also, before NGR can be introduced (apart from the non DDA issues with them being sorted) due process with the exemption application to AHRC has to proceed. No  absolute guarantee that the exemption will be granted, although on the balance of probability more than likely despite the bumbling incompetence for last 4 years or so. 

[#Metro]

Letter needs to come from someone who will likely be affected.

Can be a pre-emptive letter forewarning an incoming exemption request.

Incompetence isn't a defence, trains were deliberately ordered non-compliant apparently.

[ozbob]

My own view is that the AHRC should refuse an exemption.  The trains need to be fixed promptly. The authorities have had years, and besides they managed to come up with the design that was not compliant in the first instance.  Tough titties !!

[bretto82]

I thought the whole project was design and construct so who ever signed off on the design did not look at it very well but if it says in the contract needs to be dda it could be worn by the ngr consortium it's all very dodgy the amount of crap when the wmc was being built was a head fark

[ozbob]

Very dodgy bretto82 ... 

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/912228971286216704

[Derwan]

Just received a report that an NGR train is running a revenue service on the Springfield Line.  Could this be true?

Edit:  Confirmed from another source!   

[ozbob]

If true then it is day 584 ...

I am not sure the NGRs have an exemption yet.   I think it might be just testing.  Be nice to be wrong though.

[#Metro]

Well, if it is on the Springfield line it probably has the toilet module locked or ripped out.

Can anyone confirm the status of the toilet? Is there one on the train? Does the toilet door open?

[ozbob]

I think it is just a test train.   The lines that will be NGR'd first are Airport <> Gold Coast, then Doomben.

Someone may have seen some passengers getting on and off the NGR and assumed it was a revenue service.  There has been some testing with ' passengers ' QR staff with mobility issues.

Deputy Premier and Transport Minister is off this week, as is the Premier. 

I am pretty confident that if a NGR was doing a revenue run it would be BIG NEWS AND PROMOTED HARD by Government et al.

Edit:  Have asked QR ...

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/912542188042469377

[Derwan]

It was reported as 706.

[bretto82]

Only testing still final operation plans still not communicated

[Derwan]

Re-reading my sources.  First one could have mistaken "test passengers" as real ones - although he believes that it has "Springfield" as the desto.  Second one I saw may have been referring to testing and my interpretation was influenced by the first report.

[ozbob]

Thanks.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

27th September 2017

Rail fail festers on ...

Good Morning,

Our call for free rail travel for the Queen's Birthday Weekend has gone unheeded (as expected).  Celebrating one year of rail fail is something the Government will try to bury hey?  Well you cannot bury it.  This weekend, on Sunday and the Monday holiday we will have the worst rail frequency of any suburban rail system in Oceania.  What a dismal outcome.  People forced off public transport  and onto dangerous congested roads.  Take a bow you clowns!  It was particularly galling that the Queensland Rail ELT pocketed cash bonuses whilst this rail fail was hatching.  Any reasonable attempt to compensate the struggling punter is summarily dismissed. 

The day of reckoning approaches > #qldvotes.

More rail fail yesterday, a sample below.  What is there to hide by not reporting daily off-peak ontime running?  Failure?

https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=1862.msg198388#msg198388



It is a very unreliable low frequency service these days. Compounded by the delays with the Not Going Right (NGR) trains, the aged Queensland Rail train  fleet struggles on with frequent ' mechanical issues '. Last year when I suggested in the media it would cost at least $100 Million to sort out the NGR trains I was laughed at.  Who is laughing now?  An exemption from the AHRC to run the NGR trains in a non DDA compliant condition is no lay down misere either in our opinion.

What then?

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

[ Attached: https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=1862.msg198378#msg198378 ]

[ozbob]

Days since NGR 701 towed to Wulkuraka

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/912718361041281024

[Stillwater]

Consider this, and it is to be hoped that the AHRC considers it ... this government and its agencies, TMR and QR, have worked and schemed to explore every possible avenue to avoid a DDA compliant fix to the NGR trains.  Every means of avoiding their responsibilities under law.  This is from a state government too (governments make laws).  Months and months of inaction has followed, with consequences flowing from keeping an ageing fleet running while the NGR mess festers.  The only legal avenue open to them, an exemption, is being sought.  Is anyone of us 'exempted from the law' when we build a garage on our neighbour's land?  Or speed past a school? etc.  How is it that effective government in Queensland has got so sloppy?