Fare gates at city train stations

[Emmie]

Damn. This will stop me from touching my card as I arrive in Toowong to activate continuation, then going off to spend half an hour shopping for dinner. Combine half hour frequency with an hour's limit on changing trips within a journey, and it is very difficult to do anything practical beyond commuting by PT. Never mind, I'll now have to come home, pick up the car, and go shopping instead.

Don't follow.  If you are coming from the bus, you have a full hour to do your shopping or whatever.  The wait time doesn't count towards this.  If you are heading the other way, the frequency is at worst 15 minutes (in theory).

I come from the bus and arrive just after a train has left, so have 20 minutes to wait for the next train, say, or go shopping, get stuck in the queue at Coles, and get back after THAT train has gone. The next train is now 80 minutes after I touched off on the bus, and I have to pay for another journey. The only alternative is to cut short my shopping, and get back to the station early to touch on again and twiddle my thumbs for 10+ minutes so that i'm within the 60 minute window. You really can't do a lot of shopping with an hour during peak hour, especially at Toowong, which has been cunningly designed to make the punters walk the longest distance possible between two floors.   

[somebody]

All multi level shopping centres have that charge leveled against them.  You should see Parramatta.  If you come in on level 2 from the train station and want to get to level 3 or above, if you don't know there is an escalator hidden behind the stage, you will end up walking virtually the entire length of the shopping centre!

I follow what you are saying now, but that only really applies at times that the hourly frequency is in effect.  And at those times the shops won't be open.  Or am I missing something?

I'd be much more worried about what is to happen to the through commutes.  Sounds like they want to have a lot of Roma St starters/terminators for the Shorncliffe line.

[Emmie]

All I'm saying really, Somebody, is that the old system, which allowed 2 hours break, worked for me much better. With GO card, it changed to 60 minutes max, and it's not satisfactory. The shift from 120 to 60 minutes between legs in a journey has never been a major issue for RBOT contributors, compared with other issues, but it is for me.

[p858snake]

Wait if they are already installed why aren't being used at Ipswich already? seems like a bit of a waste of money.... or a PR ploy so they could setup then claim later it was anti fair evasion measure....

[Derwan]

Damn. This will stop me from touching my card as I arrive in Toowong to activate continuation, then going off to spend half an hour shopping for dinner.

Oh no!  You can't cheat the system any more! 

[somebody]

If you clock over a trip/journey (i.e. longer than 60 minutes between off/on), then at least you would qualify for frequent user sooner.

[Fares_Fair]

since somebody raised the point - sorry, pun intended 

how about frequent traveller points for the Go card ?

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[somebody]

Maybe I should change my screen name.

I don't know, frequent user seems to pretty much fit the bill.

[Fares_Fair]

Sorry somebody, no need to change.
I'm just being punny after the timetable debacle.  

Do you mean the 10+ trips ? then the discount kicks in.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[somebody]

That's what I mean.

[ozbob]

http://www.translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/bulletin/1287447829

Fare gate changes Helensvale, Robina &Varsity Lakes

From Monday 22 November 2010 all fare gates at Helensvale, Robina and Varsity Lakes stations will be closed, allowing use to go card holders only.

Paper ticket holders will have to show their ticket to the staff at the fare gates to be let through.

There will be no changes for go card users.

TransLink and Queensland Rail thank you for your cooperation during this change over.

[Gazza]

Haha, I want to see what happens in the school holidays when the piles of kids without tickets heading to the theme parks get off the train at Helensvale and try to exit the station.

[WTN]

Or schoolies hitting the Gold Coast without tickets.

I wonder if Translink will install gates at Coomera Station. It's the station closest to Dreamworld and has no gates.

[Gazza]

^They probably wont since the station would need two barrier lines.

[Golliwog]

^They probably wont since the station would need two barrier lines.

Is it so hard to provide more than one barrier line? I know its a cost but its going to have to be done eventually if they are going to try to have a "sealed" system. Passengers would complain if they tried to remove one of the two access points.

[Gazza]

I've actually read a posting on this over at failpage by a user named 'Revenue', who is the Victorian fare policy manager, and is working on the myki project. He was also the one who devised the TL fare/zone structure.

Basically, barrier lines need a business case as to wether the staffing and installation costs will be less than the fare revenue gained through forcing people to comply....Two barrier lines will need 2 people staffing it, so you have to ask wether its worthwhile at Coomera given it's low frequency.

The stratergy in Melbourne is not a fully closed system, but rather selectivley closing stations to cover most passengers at at least one end of their trip....So basically CBD stations and important premium stations. On the   GC line in peak, it doesnt matter if they get on for free at Coomera, since they would be caught in the CBD. Unfortunatley many of our important non CBD stations have too many exits, or serve as defacto pedestrian bridges for crossing
the lines in the suburb,  so this approach becomes harder.

Though beenleigh has only one exit so it could have them IMO.   

[freman]

They need more fare gates at Toowong, it takes too long to get through on a peak hour train - especially when they steal one gate and make it for paper tickets, make the two middle gates incoming and only leave the last gate for outgoing.

They should take the paper tickets through the metal gate at the side not waste one of the fare gates.

-

Frankly I'm over the go-card, being over charged, waiting to get anything back (Seriously - how fair is it to fine someone that can't touch on because the system overcharged them on a trip eating their credit), being delayed at gates after already late trains... I want to see a no-go-card day where everyone buys a paper ticket just to force some respect.

[ozbob]

Welcome Freman. 

There is a lot more that needs to be done with respect to the go card.  Maybe events in Victoria might just jolt some real action to address the issues ...

It is little wonder the Government is not popular.

[freman]

Thanks Ozbob.

Sorry if that last post came out as a bit of a mess it was 2 and a bit trains of thought that just got jumbled together, re-reading them they don't actually make much sense.

First was an on topic gripe about the handling and quantity of fare gates at Toowong, wasting a whole gate on tickets instead of using the bypass/metal gate on the left - resulting in further delay on late trains.

Second was off topic (should probably stick it in the experiences thread) gripe about being overcharged and consequently having insufficient balance to travel for the rest of the pay fortnight (it takes them 10 days to put the money back).

The bit was me pondering the idea of a "GoCard opt out day" though, I wouldn't have any idea how to get the sort of publicity required to make that sort of thing work.

[somebody]

All I'm saying really, Somebody, is that the old system, which allowed 2 hours break, worked for me much better. With GO card, it changed to 60 minutes max, and it's not satisfactory. The shift from 120 to 60 minutes between legs in a journey has never been a major issue for RBOT contributors, compared with other issues, but it is for me.

Actually, now that I think about it, didn't the old system require you to complete your entire trip in 2 hours?  From UQ-Sandgate, I don't know that you would have much more than an hour at Toowong.

[Gazza]

Second was off topic (should probably stick it in the experiences thread) gripe about being overcharged and consequently having insufficient balance to travel for the rest of the pay fortnight (it takes them 10 days to put the money back).

Couldn't you just load $5 or so on to cover you until the refund came through?

[somebody]

Not if you need to use a BT bus to reach a ticket machine!

[freman]

Here we go, a graphical explanation of the stupidity this morning.


Instead of wasting two faregates on paper tickets (one for the inspector to stand in front of) why don't they use the damned metal gate on the side...
I asked the other inspector (standing in front of the station) why they are wasting 2 gates on paper tickets when there's a metal bypass gate, he just looked at me...

[Golliwog]

I know they like to use the go gates because it means they get more accurate passenger counts, but surely either they could have the inspector stand outside the gates on the right hand side and reach over the barrier to touch on/off on the gate that you show as handling passengers that are leaving the station?

[somebody]

What I don't get is why they are so obsessed with data when they are so reluctant to fix the issues with the network.

[Jonno]

Here we go, a graphical explanation of the stupidity this morning.


Instead of wasting two faregates on paper tickets (one for the inspector to stand in front of) why don't they use the damned metal gate on the side...
I asked the other inspector (standing in front of the station) why they are wasting 2 gates on paper tickets when there's a metal bypass gate, he just looked at me...

Here is a question.  Is the cost employing a person or persons to stand by the paper gates on these closed stations (I have no issue with the stations being closed) not going to cost more than the instalation of go card refund machines or tempRy cards?  The Minister claimed that the cost of the solution meant that they abandoned it but to me the cost of abandoning the solution is actually higher!!

[somebody]

Without a person there, how are you leaving the station with a paper ticket?  Jumping the barrier?

[Jonno]

Without a person there, how are you leaving the station with a paper ticket?  Jumping the barrier?

Sorry my point was that the cost of staffing the barriers for paper tickets is more costly than solution to allow a paper-less system.

[Astro]

Can someone please explain to me why there are no dedicated anti flow gates at central & probably other city stations. I arrive at central at 4.30pm & more often the not there is no dedicated anti flow gate & when there is, it is also for paper ticket holders who then seem to have priority even tho I'm at the gate & they are several feet away from it.

[Jonno]

Central definitely has 2 anti-flow gates on the northern entrance and I believe on the other ones as well.?? Just walk past them 20 mins ago.

[O_128]

Have a look at the Paris metro fare gates, must use brute force to get through, on another note the just found out that the go card equivalent must be kept in it's case or you receive a 40 euro fine , the case is supposed to have a photo attached which I want told , refused to pay fine, in the end was taken to police station until I threatened to call my embassy, learnt my lesson though

[Astro]

Yes there are anti-flow gates but they are not dedicated to anti-flow & by that I mean they are not locked off to prevent people on the opposite side from using them. More often then not I have come head to head with someone wanting to use the same gate as me. Case in point, A woman & I went to use the same gate at the same time but I touched first as the gates opened away from me but before I had a chance to go through this stupid woman barged her way through then the gates shut before I could get out. Fortunately a barrier attended saw what happened & let me out.

[Golliwog]

Have a look at the Paris metro fare gates, must use brute force to get through, on another note the just found out that the go card equivalent must be kept in it's case or you receive a 40 euro fine , the case is supposed to have a photo attached which I want told , refused to pay fine, in the end was taken to police station until I threatened to call my embassy, learnt my lesson though

Wow, I didn't know that. When I was there though, I did just use their paper tickets. The magnetic strip is great, my french however is not Have you used any of the ticket machines with the crazy weird roller scroller thing?

[somebody]

Pretty sure there are dedicated anti-peak flow gates at Central and Roma St.

[O_128]

Have a look at the Paris metro fare gates, must use brute force to get through, on another note the just found out that the go card equivalent must be kept in it's case or you receive a 40 euro fine , the case is supposed to have a photo attached which I want told , refused to pay fine, in the end was taken to police station until I threatened to call my embassy, learnt my lesson though

Wow, I didn't know that. When I was there though, I did just use their paper tickets. The magnetic strip is great, my french however is not Have you used any of the ticket machines with the crazy weird roller scroller thing?

Yeh the ticket machine with the scroller is interesting , the navigo was 18 euro for a one week zone one and 2 ticket though we weren't told that you must keep the card in it's numbered case

[ozbob]

From the Courier Mail 16th February 2011 page 17

Fare cop, swipe or it's no-go on trains

[p858snake]

How are those gates going to be installed at bowen hills..... there is no space for them....

[Derwan]

Another change to the fare gates at Central Concourse (during peak).

• Holders of paper tickets can only enter/exit via the Ann St entrance (next to the ticket booth)
• Contra flow is only available at the Ann St entrance, with all other entrances/exits set to the peak flow direction only.

Not sure about the entrances/exits from/to the subway.

[Golliwog]

Another change to the fare gates at Central Concourse (during peak).

• Holders of paper tickets can only enter/exit via the Ann St entrance (next to the ticket booth)
• Contra flow is only available at the Ann St entrance, with all other entrances/exits set to the peak flow direction only.

Not sure about the entrances/exits from/to the subway.

Didn't they previously try this? But IIRC that was back when the go card share was low so there was a decent queue of paper ticket holders for the Ann St entrance. So far from what I've seen this appears to be working.

[ozbob]

Checked out these arrangements this morning at Central, seems fine to me.

Only issue for me was X on a reader, but that happens ...