Greater Flagstone and Yarrabilba Urban Development Areas

[colinw]

Shane,

That is a darn good proposal, and definitely worthy of pursuing.  It would do much more good for the area than the current proposal to turn the line into a walking trail (which is madness given the size & scope of the Yarrabilba development).

Many people erroneously think the line to Logan Village had poor alignment.  It did not, apart from the first 2km or so to near Easterly St.  Past there it opens out to a long straight that goes most of the way to LV.  100km/h would be quite achievable with even recycled 80lb/yard rail on steel sleepers.

I like your DMU idea as well. Heck even a re-used 2000 class with an 80km/h max speed would be good enough, or buy some ex-Perth units from Auckland as they are becoming redundant in a couple of years time as the wires go up.

A rail extension doesn't have to be a half billion dollar extravaganza.  It can be a nice cheap closed or freight line conversion, like the O-Train in Ottawa or some of the metre gauge operations in Spain (FEVE up in the north of Spain, FGV around Valencia).

I am not without bias on the topic of this line, my daughter goes to the school at Waterford (Canterbury College) and would benefit greatly. (She uses the school provided bus service at present).

With the development in the area, rail stations at the retirement village, Easterly St (school & Woodlands) and LV would be all you need.  Agree about then extending toward Yarrabilba & Tamborine.  Jimboomba is better served by bus down the Mt Lindesay Hwy, and Beaudesert by the future extension across from the interstate.

--Col

[Arnz]

Agreed, not to mention that by this time we will most likely have the GC trains stopping all stations to loganlea then express so not hideous trip on the all stooper either.

Been looking at this and its a diffiult one, do you get the GC train to stop at Bethania? Adding more stops to the GC train extends train time on the GC users. Going back a few years they had the dream run between Beenleigh and Sth Bank, now there are about 3 stops, how many more? With the likely hood or new stations on the existing GC line, I doubt they will add more north of Beenleigh.

However, agree coming from Logan Village you have about 15min trip and a 3-5min wait, is this different to our freinds on sunny coast and Rosewood have to endure for so many years? If you don't have the numbers its hard to justify an express unless you can fill the train. Perhaps on a 15min surbuban timetable assuming sparks to Logan Village, you could make the LV trains a bit faster missing a few stops lightly used??? But this defeats the purpose of 15min services. Also looking the similar service Nowra DMU shuttle, it only has one set and can oly just shuttle back and forward and you wouldn't allow a 2 car train into the city at peak.

Only a few improvements were done to the Sunshine Coast timetable, 90 min off-peak/weekend headways, an extra afternoon peak service added 1 month later in July after the complaints about the overcrowding, and the new daytime Gympie Service.  (Initially it was 1 extra morning peak service and 1 extra afternoon peak service, but it was later increased to 2 new afternoon peak services after the ongoing overcrowding complaints from commuters of both lines).

Assuming QR uses the same reason for Caboolture AND Sunshine Coast expresses (except Gympie North which is Bowen Hills to Caboolture) now stopping all stations to Northgate to actually "increase/maximise" services in the peak periods, I would think the demand for extra Beenleigh trains from those in the suburbs would require some GC trains in peak to add more stops to maximise capacity.  The stopping pattern for those peak GC trains is debatable.

You won't be able to put extra Beenleigh expresses and Gold Coast expresses at the same time during the busiest of peak periods with the current capacity layout (double track Kuraby to Beenleigh and the third track Park Road to Coopers Plains lacks the crossovers except Yeerongpilly and just before Coopers Plains, not to mention the third track shares with freight and the morning XPT)

[O_128]

Agreed, not to mention that by this time we will most likely have the GC trains stopping all stations to loganlea then express so not hideous trip on the all stooper either.

Been looking at this and its a diffiult one, do you get the GC train to stop at Bethania? Adding more stops to the GC train extends train time on the GC users. Going back a few years they had the dream run between Beenleigh and Sth Bank, now there are about 3 stops, how many more? With the likely hood or new stations on the existing GC line, I doubt they will add more north of Beenleigh.

However, agree coming from Logan Village you have about 15min trip and a 3-5min wait, is this different to our freinds on sunny coast and Rosewood have to endure for so many years? If you don't have the numbers its hard to justify an express unless you can fill the train. Perhaps on a 15min surbuban timetable assuming sparks to Logan Village, you could make the LV trains a bit faster missing a few stops lightly used??? But this defeats the purpose of 15min services. Also looking the similar service Nowra DMU shuttle, it only has one set and can oly just shuttle back and forward and you wouldn't allow a 2 car train into the city at peak.

For this I don't know the answer and certainly with a DMU shuttle it will be nothing more than just that to a suburban (amazing as it seems) and open to suggestions.



Regards
Shane

I have 2 solutions.

1. move GC stop to bethania rather than loganlea
2. all stops to loganlea with the deletion of holmview

under scenario 2, I would just upgrade loganlea station and have beenleigh trains terminate here rather than at beenleigh. and funds allow triplicate to loganlea Would 15 min off peak be possible for both lines in this scenario?

[ozbob]

Media release 28 November 2011

SEQ: Bethania to Logan Village by rail

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has called for the construction of a new railway line from Bethania to Logan Village using the former Beaudesert railway line corridor.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"RAIL Back On Track members have supported the call for an extension to the rail network from Bethania to Logan Village. This could be a low cost extension, using modified  Diesel Mechanical Unit (DMU) trains to connect with the electric suburban train network at Bethania (1). It would also form the basis of a rail line to the planned satellite city at Yarrabilba."

Key points:

- The railway line Bethania to Logan Village is viable with 3 stations, Waterford near private school and on far end of current development and Logan Village. Maybe to Jimboomba in future, and a further extension through Yarrabilba with a final terminus at Tamborine Village in mid 2020's with stations in Yarrabilba and Tamborine Village which has a catchment from the mountain, Canungra and Tamborine Village area.

- A station near retirement villages could also be considered, although it is close to Bethania, its not easy access especially for the residents.

- Park 'n' ride at Logan Village, other stations smaller Sunshine Coast style with limited parking provided (for now). Also provide push bike storage at each station. Mid way stations are kept simple with sufficient room for say two door access only, but able to be extended as required. Logan Village railway station to have provision for toilets and crew requirements.

- Line could operate as single DMU shuttle using the current EMU design fitted with diesel generator for power, similar to Adelaide's 3000 class as this keeps the overall train as close as possible to existing fleet for parts. Each of the two cars have their own engine to provide redundancy in case of failure, option to add 3rd trailer car in future. Or just do what Auckland did and get a couple of suitable ex English cars with a built in cab at one end and strap a 1720 at the other. No shunting required.  Electrification can be progressively achieved as rail traffic builds.  A similar situation exists on the Stony Point railway line in Victoria.

- No need for electronic safe working.

- No passing loops  between Bethania and Logan Village. Logan Village may need to have extra road/loop for track maintenance vehicles.

- Current station at Logan Village is wrong side, rebuild it on the current loop line and place the loop on far side consider building the car park on inland side of small gully with access from that road that crosses the river and also in paddock across the side road.

- Utilise much of the existing rail corridor but to improve the bends and speed, while there is cheap land available perhaps make use of the paddocks as well for same. In many cases taking land on one side can be handed back on the other side.

- Keep the stations of simple design, but still provide weather protection and security and call help buttons.

- Track can be steel sleepers with recycled rail from elsewhere. Target 80km/hr with 60km/hr average. Its only  13km to Logan Village so if you can get the trip time to 20min you can do 1 return trip every 45min, but 30min capable would be better but this would require a higher track standard and cost.

- Train timetabled to connect with Beenleigh services say connecting around 6:00, 6:45, 7:30, 8:15, 9:00 at Bethania and same in afternoon probably starting in time for afternoon school run around 3pm and finishing around 6:30-7:00pm with a Saturday morning timetable. Minibus to supplement during day as normally numbers are unlikely to justify train in short term and provides window for track work. But otherwise one hourly during day. City bound trains Bethania at 06/36 and Beenleigh bound arrive 07/37, which is good for a connection service.

"One of the major issues with public transport in south-east Queensland is the failure to utilise existing infrastructure maximally and the resources that already exist.  Logan Village and Yarrabilba is a planned high growth area.  Providing rail public transport from day one makes a lot of economic, social and environmental sense!"

Reference:

1.  http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5915.msg76879#msg76879

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[colinw]

 

Old corridors like this one and Cab to Wamuran are "low hanging fruit" for cheap & cheerful extensions to the system.

It would be criminal NOT to consider it given the size of the Yarrabilba development and the poor standard of the existing links into the area. The road from Logan Village to Waterford is not great, and already suffers from quite severe bank ups in the morning peak where it joins onto the Brisbane - Beenleigh Road.

My suggestions for station sites:

Station #1.Old Logan Road / Bow St, close to the large retirement villages & quite a bit of new development..  The former Waterford station & crossing loop was near here.  Alternatively a bit further east around Goodooga Dr.

Station #2.Easterly St, close to Canterbury College and the Woodlands subdivision. There's quite a bit of housing going in off Easterly St & High Rd, and a shopping centre has just been approved across the road from the school entrance in Easterly St.

After Easterly St the line crosses a longish bridge that will need replacing, then a reverse curve. After Dairy Creek Road level crossing it opens up to a long straight most of the way to Logan Village.

Station #3. Logan Village.  Major Park & Ride for the line, plus potentially interchange for feeder mini-buses to Tamborine Village, etc.

After Logan Village you can see the junction of the Canungra Branch (closed 1955).  Straight ahead goes to Jimboomba & Beaudesert, the turnout goes to Canungra via Tamborine Village.

IMHO there is greater potential for extension down the former Canungra ROW to Yarrabilba & Tamborine Village as suggested by Shane.  There are big developments planned for the area, and oddly the alignment of the former Canungra Branch is much better than that of the Beaudesert line beyond Logan Village.

This does not need to be a high cost rebuild & extension. 2nd hand DMUs from somewhere would do the job nicely, e.g. the ex-Perth units that are in Auckland at present or some ex UK units.

At the Bethania end the branch trains should terminate at a new platform on the non electrified branch track directly behind the Park & Ride.  I.e. the DMUs would not even run onto the main line at all.  There is historical precedent for this, until 1959 Beaudesert railcars (connecting with Beenleigh & Southport trains) terminated in a dock platform at Bethania Junction, I propose to re-instate a similar arrangement with a new platform on the branch alongside the carpark.

[colinw]

Nearmap has better views:

1. Bethania - platform would go on the branch track behind the Park & ride
2. Goodooga Dr, retirement village & high density housing.
3. Bow St / Old Logan Village Road
4. Easterly St / High Rd close to Canterbury College & Delfin "Woodlands" development
5. Dairy Creek Road - end of poor alignment / start of the long straight.
6. Logan Village - initial terminus.
7. Junction of Canungra Branch - line should extend along the still available former Canungra ROW to centre of the big Yarrabilba satellite city.

[O_128]

This almost seems like a working bee project, though of course the gov won't do anything until there are 20000 more people here and votes can be brought by building it

[colinw]

All 3 platforms at Bethania are wired, didn't realise CityTrain are only using two of them now.  That makes it even easier, less to build.

There are three bridges between Bethania & LV:

1. Near Easterly St
2. Toward Dairy Creek Road
3. Just after Stegemann Rd -  I think this is the one you mean.

[SteelPan]

My suggestion - IF this ever happened and it should - Get it right from day one:
1. Electric line [seemless integration to wider network]
2. Initial single track with appropriate passing loop
3. Longer-term double track
4. Let's not stuff around with this stuff
5. Well done to Ozbob for keeping the pressure up, with wider BOT community support.

       

[SteelPan]

    my post above looks ill - don't tell me,     I've broken the rules???  typical, I do apologise....  wasn't me, just looked like me..... maybe this is why I don't get invites to dinner parties (thankfully)   


:conf       

[colinw]

Seriously 'though, if we're going stuff thousands of houses in out there, we have an obligation to provide some decent public transport from day 1.  And this line is just sitting there waiting to be used, with the corridor running right to the heart of the proposed satellite city.

[petey3801]

All 3 platforms at Bethania are wired, didn't realise CityTrain are only using two of them now.  

Yes, platform 3 is only used when absolutely required (sometimes used for special/training etc. trains to the coast to go in while the Gold Coast train passes, or if there are problems between Bethania and Beenleigh it can be used for turnbacks, but that's about it. It is not used in normal everyday operation.

[colinw]

Excellent.

"Bethania, Bethania Station. Platform on the left hand side. Passengers for the Yarrabilba line please change trains here."

[O_128]

My suggestion - IF this ever happened and it should - Get it right from day one:
1. Electric line [seemless integration to wider network]
2. Initial single track with appropriate passing loop
3. Longer-term double track
4. Let's not stuff around with this stuff
5. Well done to Ozbob for keeping the pressure up, with wider BOT community support.

       

The reason is our gov is pathetic and won't do anything unless votes are involved, hence robt is trying to market it as something that can be done for very little cost with huge long term benefits

[SurfRail]

I think this needs to be a lower order priority than getting decent rail to Flagstone given that Flagstone will likely get up more easily.  But I tend to agree this is something to consider.  (Electrification from day one should be the name of the game, it would work out cheaper in the long run than running bespoke rollingstock.)

Is there some scope for a service that will do both Flagstone and Yarrabilba via Acacia Ridge?  Didn't look like that would work when I had a squizz at the area, unless you permanently forego the chance to run to Beaudesert.

[colinw]

I think this needs to be a lower order priority than getting decent rail to Flagstone given that Flagstone will likely get up more easily.  But I tend to agree this is something to consider.  (Electrification from day one should be the name of the game, it would work out cheaper in the long run than running bespoke rollingstock.)

Is there some scope for a service that will do both Flagstone and Yarrabilba via Acacia Ridge?  Didn't look like that would work when I had a squizz at the area, unless you permanently forego the chance to run to Beaudesert.

Yarrabilba via Acacia Ridge would be horribly indirect compared to going via Bethania & Logan Village: click here.  The line from Logan Village to Bethania runs North-North East and is on a reasonably direct path from the area to Brisbane (taking into account where the Logan River runs).

I do not see any future for the section of line from Logan Village to Jimboomba & Gleneagle. Beaudesert should go via Flagstone, Yarrabilba via Bethania, and Jimboomba is best served by buses down the Mt Lindesay Hwy with secondary service across to Beenleigh

[STB]

All 3 platforms at Bethania are wired, didn't realise CityTrain are only using two of them now. 

Yes, platform 3 is only used when absolutely required (sometimes used for special/training etc. trains to the coast to go in while the Gold Coast train passes, or if there are problems between Bethania and Beenleigh it can be used for turnbacks, but that's about it. It is not used in normal everyday operation.

There is also the slight problem of Bethania not having ped crossing gates (at the entrance to the station from the carpark) to stop people from crossing the track that enters platform 3.

[Set in train]

After Logan Village you can see the junction of the Canungra Branch (closed 1955).  Straight ahead goes to Jimboomba & Beaudesert, the turnout goes to Canungra via Tamborine Village.

IMHO there is greater potential for extension down the former Canungra ROW to Yarrabilba & Tamborine Village as suggested by Shane.  There are big developments planned for the area, and oddly the alignment of the former Canungra Branch is much better than that of the Beaudesert line beyond Logan Village.

I followed this line via Nearmap from LV to Tamborine Village, lost sight of the alignment to Canungra from the intersection of Leach & Palomino Rds.

[colinw]

They should be ok, they were all re-done around 2000 during the Beaudesert Rail era.

[colinw]

Realistically, I think the best we can hope for at present is corridor preservation.

[Set in train]

Realistically, I think the best we can hope for at present is corridor preservation.

Yes, good point.

The Albert & Logan News would be interested in this story: 3826 2626

Beaudesert & Jimboomba Times also: 5541 1388

In stories in the area, found this:
http://paper.questnews.com.au/QST_ALB/alb003.pdf

[#Metro]

Would turnouts at stations help?

[ozbob]

A correspondent has said there was a brief item on Channel 7 News Brisbane that mentioned something about a railway to Flagstone.

Any one see it or know something about the story?

Thanks ...

[BrizCommuter]

This development should not be allowed to proceed until such time as the infrastructure for public transport is in place and avaliable foe operation.

+1
Certainly no development until public transport is funded and guaranteed.

However, urban sprawl away from existing transport infrastructure should not be occurring in the first place.

[SurfRail]

All stations to the city via South Brisbane (20tph)
- Cleveland (8tph)
- Flagstone (6tph)
- Yarrabilba (6tph)

Limited stations to the city via Woolloongabba (22tph)
- Loganlea (express Salisbury to Yeerongpilly) (10tph)
- Helensvale/Parkwood (express Loganlea to Yeerongpilly) (6tph)
- Southern Gold Coast terminus (express Helensvale to Yeerongpilly) (6tph)

Yarrabilba branches at Greenbank and uses the electricity transmission corridor easements to reach Yarrabilba, with a station en route where it intersects the Mt Lindesay Hwy (North Maclean) for use mainly as a park'n'ride.  There might be scope for one other one on the way to Yarrabilba depending on the pattern of settlement.

Thoughts?

[somebody]

I think 8tph to Cleveland isn't allowing for growth on that corridor.  I also see that you aren't allowing via Tennyson trains in that - which probably means that there will need to be amplification on the western lines.

Flagstone and Yarrabilba carrying more people than the Gold Coast line currently does?  Seems a bit of a stretch.

[Golliwog]

Flagstone and Yarrabilba carrying more people than the Gold Coast line currently does?  Seems a bit of a stretch.

Even when you add in the inner Beenleigh line they'd now be covering?

My preferred (but also foamy) option for the second CRR tunnel involves them connecting through to the Cleveland line around Cannon Hill to cut time off the trip for those further out on the line that have no need for the dogleg down to Park Rd.

[somebody]

I'm not really sure why we shouldn't have more infill development nearer the CBD.  There seems much undeveloped land.

[colinw]

How about:

- don't build a bloody great city at Flagstone at all.
- keep Yarrabilba small scale and run a bus service
- exclude Beaudesert from the sprawl and put Melbourne style development limits / urban boundary in place
- preserve corridors "just in case".
- build CRR, then run trains on dedicated 3'6" trackage to about Greenbank.

Planning something as far out as Flagstone or Yarrabilba, in an area with poor existing infrastructure, and with only vague promises of great things by 2031 2037, is cr%p policy and even when dressed up in rhetoric about sustainability is really just more of the same, creating a car dependent, employment poor sprawl.

I'd rather be hearing about plans to jam lots of high rise into Woolloongabba, served by the existing busway station, high quality cycle infrastructure, and frequent underground trains via CRR.

Running many trains per hour out to distances of 60km or more just means we have thousands of people living in the wrong place, whizzing around on expensive trains or motorways that would not otherwise have needed to be built. Not sustainable or environmentally friendly even if it ends up rail based (which it won't, because this is Queensland).

cheers,
Grumpy Col

[Golliwog]

I'm not really sure why we shouldn't have more infill development nearer the CBD.  There seems much undeveloped land.

I second that, and add that I'm also not really sure why we don't try and increase densities at key areas. Things like BCC's Mitchelton area plan (don't think thats its actual title, but its the plan for the area around Mitchelton station and Brookside) which if it goes ahead (last I heard I think it pretty much had) allow for development of up to 8 stories (off the top of my head that is, at least 5 or 6) around the station precinct. This has been fought tooth and nail by locals who don't want the extra density casting shadows on their houses.

[nathandavid88]

Was this inspired by my mentioning it in the thread about the Darra line by any chance? 

Would a train line be allowed to use the electricity corridor easements? It would be a good idea, a nice straight line there that already exists.

The other option of course is to base it on the old Beaudesert Line from Bethania. Large amounts of that corridor do still exist. 

[colinw]

The Bethania to Logan Village corridor should be "banked" as a bikeway.  No doubt about that.

It has poor alignment (but no worse than the Ferny Grove line) for the first couple of km, then opens out to nice long straights after about Easterly St, Waterford.  It actually wouldn't make a bad feeder branch at all, except the population to support it isn't there yet.

If the day comes when Yarrabilba + Logan Village actually warrants a mass transit service then the former branch can be resurrected as a feeder rail line or el-cheapo busway conversion of bikeway.  Until then, buses on the existing road will do.

The bikeway conversion of the former branch line is a no-brainer as it connects the nearest rail station (Bethania) to a couple of schools, although for some bizarre reason the private school at Waterford (Canterbury College) discourages cycling and refuses to provide bike racks.

I somewhat doubt that Logan Village / Yarrabilba will end up big enough to sustain anything but a basic bus service anyway. Its not Springfield!

[SurfRail]

How about:

- don't build a bloody great city at Flagstone at all.
- keep Yarrabilba small scale and run a bus service
- exclude Beaudesert from the sprawl and put Melbourne style development limits / urban boundary in place
- preserve corridors "just in case".
- build CRR, then run trains on dedicated 3'6" trackage to about Greenbank.

Planning something as far out as Flagstone or Yarrabilba, in an area with poor existing infrastructure, and with only vague promises of great things by 2031 2037, is cr%p policy and even when dressed up in rhetoric about sustainability is really just more of the same, creating a car dependent, employment poor sprawl.

I'd rather be hearing about plans to jam lots of high rise into Woolloongabba, served by the existing busway station, high quality cycle infrastructure, and frequent underground trains via CRR.

Running many trains per hour out to distances of 60km or more just means we have thousands of people living in the wrong place, whizzing around on expensive trains or motorways that would not otherwise have needed to be built. Not sustainable or environmentally friendly even if it ends up rail based (which it won't, because this is Queensland).

cheers,
Grumpy Col

I absolutely agree with this.  However, the reality is Yarrabilba is happening, much as we are irked by it. 

I suspect we will end up with something like Ellenbrook in Perth - off in whoop whoop with nothing more than a few buses an hour and nothing in the evening on weekends.  Ellenbrook at least has the advantage of not being as far out in absolute terms as Yarrabilba is from Brisbane, and a much better rail service for the City - Bassendean leg.  Knowing how we do things it won't even have additional services for the peak.

http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/timetablePDFs/Eastern%2099%2020120819.pdf

[colinw]

In which case the developers should be stumping up the cash to run a reasonable bus service from day one, or there should be a 'transit surcharge' on all lots in the development.

We can't just keep putting people out in the sticks then wondering why we have to spend a fortune on roads & loss making long haul public transport.

If any kind of decent quality service is going to Yarrabilba, it will either be via the old branch line corridor, or sharing corridor with a southern thrust of the Gateway motorway from Browns Plains.

Can't see the power corridors cutting it, as they may look nice & straight on a map but probably have some quite steep gradients.

[mufreight]

How about:

- don't build a bloody great city at Flagstone at all.
- keep Yarrabilba small scale and run a bus service
- exclude Beaudesert from the sprawl and put Melbourne style development limits / urban boundary in place
- preserve corridors "just in case".
- build CRR, then run trains on dedicated 3'6" trackage to about Greenbank.

Planning something as far out as Flagstone or Yarrabilba, in an area with poor existing infrastructure, and with only vague promises of great things by 2031 2037, is cr%p policy and even when dressed up in rhetoric about sustainability is really just more of the same, creating a car dependent, employment poor sprawl.

I'd rather be hearing about plans to jam lots of high rise into Woolloongabba, served by the existing busway station, high quality cycle infrastructure, and frequent underground trains via CRR.

Running many trains per hour out to distances of 60km or more just means we have thousands of people living in the wrong place, whizzing around on expensive trains or motorways that would not otherwise have needed to be built. Not sustainable or environmentally friendly even if it ends up rail based (which it won't, because this is Queensland).

cheers,
Grumpy Col

I absolutely agree with this.  However, the reality is Yarrabilba is happening, much as we are irked by it. 

I suspect we will end up with something like Ellenbrook in Perth - off in whoop whoop with nothing more than a few buses an hour and nothing in the evening on weekends.  Ellenbrook at least has the advantage of not being as far out in absolute terms as Yarrabilba is from Brisbane, and a much better rail service for the City - Bassendean leg.  Knowing how we do things it won't even have additional services for the peak.

http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/timetablePDFs/Eastern%2099%2020120819.pdf

Same arguments apply to the Ripley Valley.

[SurfRail]

Can't see the power corridors cutting it, as they may look nice & straight on a map but probably have some quite steep gradients.

That's what I suspected.  I don't exactly have access to relief maps of the area, or even reliable satellite photography (well anymore...)

[SurfRail]

Same arguments apply to the Ripley Valley.

It's a fair point, but I've never been too worried about Ripley.  The developer isn't Stockland, Delfin or Mirvac for starters, it is in a logical spot between 2 major centres (Ipswich and Springfield), it isn't as remote from an existing major centre and population base and an extension to Ipswich will make the Springfield line perform much better by anchoring it at both ends.

Even Flagstone and Caloundra South are at least on the way to somewhere.

Yarrabilba really is in the middle of nowhere and is the odd one out in the South-East.

[BrizCommuter]

How about:

- don't build a bloody great city at Flagstone at all.
- keep Yarrabilba small scale and run a bus service
- exclude Beaudesert from the sprawl and put Melbourne style development limits / urban boundary in place
- preserve corridors "just in case".
- build CRR, then run trains on dedicated 3'6" trackage to about Greenbank.

Planning something as far out as Flagstone or Yarrabilba, in an area with poor existing infrastructure, and with only vague promises of great things by 2031 2037, is cr%p policy and even when dressed up in rhetoric about sustainability is really just more of the same, creating a car dependent, employment poor sprawl.

I'd rather be hearing about plans to jam lots of high rise into Woolloongabba, served by the existing busway station, high quality cycle infrastructure, and frequent underground trains via CRR.

Running many trains per hour out to distances of 60km or more just means we have thousands of people living in the wrong place, whizzing around on expensive trains or motorways that would not otherwise have needed to be built. Not sustainable or environmentally friendly even if it ends up rail based (which it won't, because this is Queensland).

cheers,
Grumpy Col

+1

[nathandavid88]

Same arguments apply to the Ripley Valley.

It's a fair point, but I've never been too worried about Ripley.  The developer isn't Stockland, Delfin or Mirvac for starters, it is in a logical spot between 2 major centres (Ipswich and Springfield), it isn't as remote from an existing major centre and population base and an extension to Ipswich will make the Springfield line perform much better by anchoring it at both ends.

Even Flagstone and Caloundra South are at least on the way to somewhere.

Yarrabilba really is in the middle of nowhere and is the odd one out in the South-East.

Yarrabilba isn't any further out of the way that Flagstone is really. Both are a 10 min deviation off the Mt Lindsey Highway and both are 10 mins away from Jimboomba. Much of a muchness there really. Thinking about transport connections, the idea of making the 540 an hourly connection to Browns Plains floated in the timetable reviews will be beneficial to both Yarrabilba and Flagstone. Maybe putting a park n ride facility in Jimboomba might be an idea to consider, until the communities are large enough to warrant feeders (although Yarrabilba will run a community bus early on to Loganlea or Beenleigh I believe.)

[Gazza]

ill more than justify a rail connection and in in future this maybe the extra 15min train from the city running a 30min timetable up the branch.

I think it would make more sense to have 4tph to Bethania and Yarrabilba. And then close Holmview and add Edens Landing to the GC line.

That's if the foam express Logan Village line gets used.