Greater Flagstone and Yarrabilba Urban Development Areas

[O_128]

Just like, north lakes, forest lake and every other stupid housing estate, Springfield being the exception as in 20 years i expect it to have a bigger CBD than ipswich with a sizable amount of gov departments moved there.

The Government's Conn'ing QLD 2031 therefore proposes to build a Ripley spur line to Ipswich, and not develop the Springfield to Ripley part of the rail corridor within 20 years.  This turns Ripley into the end of a very circuitous route from Brisbane, rather than another town on a second Brisbane to Ipswich main-line.  As our American cousins say, "Go Figure!".

Cleveland mark 2 lol

[SurfRail]

"Urban Jails" is what I call this philosophy. And it's rubbish too. People have cars and will use them. Is the Sunshine Coast self contained? Is the Gold Coast self contained? Is Ipswich self contained? The answer is no, no and no. Heaps of people get up every morning and start driving to Brisbane CBD because that's where the high paying jobs are.

I really think you are drawing a long bow with the Gold Coast.  Brisbane happens to be a (bigger) capital city located 80km up the road, so there is always going to be commuter traffic (myself included), but to say the Gold Coast is some dormitory suburb like the southern Sunshine Coast and offers no high-paying employment is a bit of a furphy.

[#Metro]

I am not disputing that there aren't high paying jobs on the gold coast. There certainly are, what I am saying is that the claims that these areas are going to be self-contained is just nonsense.

The reason why so many people are driving to Brisbane are because the jobs are in the Brisbane CBD and they pay really really well.
A person will only drive 80 km if pay >>>> commute time and costs

How many high paying jobs are going to be out at Yarrabilla? Will it even have a CBD???

[colinw]

http://www.yarrabilba.com.au/

Says sweet F.A. about transport, and a few mealy mouthed words about jobs.

Makes the spurious claim that it is 15 minutes from Yatala, Beenleigh & Logan Central.  Yeah right, maybe at midnight if you speed and run all the red lights.

Public transport is not mentioned at all.

[ozbob]

Found this at the ULDA site, but says nothing really ..

http://www.ulda.qld.gov.au/01_cms/details.asp?ID=395

What is the vision for Yarrabilba?

Yarrabilba will be a self-contained new town that will provide an attractive lifestyle in a well designed urban community for up to 50,000 people in 20,000 dwellings. Yarrabilba achieves the potential identified in the South East Queensland Regional Plan 2009-2031, providing a wide range of housing choices and employment opportunities, supported by community services and public transport.

How?

[colinw]

How?

That is the key question.

Yarrabilba's choices are:

- buses along a twisty, windy, two lane road that feeds into a 70 km/h arterial road which is chock full of traffic lights.
- do something with a half decent, but disused rail corridor, which has a few km of bad alignment at the Bethania end.

Hence the poll.

I can see that the poll is strongly saying not to develop the area.  I'm afraid that horse has already bolted, and it is happening.  Which leaves us with anything up to 40,000 people in an area which doesn't even have a 4 lane road yet.

I strongly feel that this is by far the worst of the ULDA's development areas. My daughter goes to Canterbury College, and from what we see the roads in the area aren't even coping with having a big school there and the Woodlands development at Waterford, let alone another 40,000 people out at Logan Village. Thankfully the school has a reasonably good bus service, including a run which meets trains at Bethania.

[ozbob]

Blast from the past ... http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4128.0

================

Media Release 22 July 2010

SEQ:  2010 Update to the SEQIPP welcome

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters has welcomed the renewed commitment to the sensible 'way forward' as indicated in the latest update to the South East Queensland Infrastructure Plan and Program (SEQIPP) (1).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Rail is going to be the way forward for transport in Queensland. Sustainable, economically sound and safe it is time we broke the shackles of the road centric mantra and got on with real transport solutions."

"The SEQIPP as updated includes a number of significant rail projects perhaps to be constructed in the distant future.  What is needed is to turn plans into the reality.  The Cross River Rail project needs to be fast tracked.  The railway line from Petri to Kippa-Ring should be another priority.  We welcome the immediate commitment to continue with the double track railway from Richlands to Springfield, but similarly the long awaited railway to Kippa-Ring needs to be moved forward.  The final section of single line on the Gold Coast railway must be an urgent track amplification project as the demands on this line are increasing significantly."

"A major failing of the SEQIPP is the lack of proper forward transport planning to support the plans to build new communities at Yarrabilba and Flagstone (2).  The SEQIPP needs a revision to plan for rail to support these communities.  Ripley valley is on a planned rail corridor, but the communities at Yarrabilba and Flagstone will be transport poor and a failure otherwise."

Reference:

1.  http://www.dip.qld.gov.au/seqipp

2.  http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4007.0

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

[#Metro]

It may be time to ask some hard questions...

[O_128]

"Urban Jails" is what I call this philosophy. And it's rubbish too. People have cars and will use them. Is the Sunshine Coast self contained? Is the Gold Coast self contained? Is Ipswich self contained? The answer is no, no and no. Heaps of people get up every morning and start driving to Brisbane CBD because that's where the high paying jobs are.

I really think you are drawing a long bow with the Gold Coast.  Brisbane happens to be a (bigger) capital city located 80km up the road, so there is always going to be commuter traffic (myself included), but to say the Gold Coast is some dormitory suburb like the southern Sunshine Coast and offers no high-paying employment is a bit of a furphy.

At least the gold coast is getting to the stage where it can start supporting itself job wise. There are a lot of commercial works happening at robina and I would expect to see office towers eventually along surfers. The sunshine coast deserves what it has with residents up in arms at every kind of development.


Lets face it Yarabilba is going to be a housing estate and if we follow the trend of the springfield line if we are lucky there might be rail out there by 2031.

What i dont get is why the developers dont build the rail. If I was the government I would give them the land in return for a  rail line being built.

"Yarrabilba is centrally positioned in the well-serviced and rapidly expanding Brisbane-Gold Coast growth corridor. "

[colinw]

"Yarrabilba is centrally positioned in the well-serviced and rapidly expanding Brisbane-Gold Coast growth corridor. "

Yes, they would say that. It is nothing of the sort. It is tucked away out to the west of Beenleigh, in an area with no good transport infrastructure.

Click here.

The right of way of the former Logan Village to Canungra railway, closed 1955, is clearly visible on this view, to east of the Waterford - Tamborine road, beyond the power lines.

[SurfRail]

I am not disputing that there aren't high paying jobs on the gold coast. There certainly are, what I am saying is that the claims that these areas are going to be self-contained is just nonsense.

Once again, not true.  Plenty of commuting going on in both directions last I checked, including by rail.

The Gold Coast is a city in its own right, with a distinct economy and population base, which is why comparisons to Ipswich and the Sunshine Coast are dubious at best. 

So, I shall assume that when you say "these areas" above, you are referring to the 3 "new cities".

[ozbob]

My late Grandfather, and my Uncle travelled on one of the last trains to Canungra.  My Uncle remembers it well, on an platform at the end of a carriage for the somewhat scenic run into Canungra.  I  was based at Canungra in the Army for a short time in 1969 and did some bush bashing along the old line at the time.  Bits of it can be located still today.

Some photographs from a visit in 2002, at Boyland, on the old line between Logan Village and Canungra.







Photographs R Dow 2002

[mufreight]

The western section of the existing rail coridor with a realignment of the Bethania end of the line, yes the resumptions needed will cause screams but the future price that will be paid for the pathetic planning will be even greater.
There is also the alternative of a new greenfield line from Yarrabilba running accross to the standard gauge corridor then along that corridor parallel to the SG line into Acacia Ridge and connecting with the ng system at Sailsbury.
Expensive but it presents a greenfield option with faster transit times into the Brisbane region and would service a fresh collection area that currently is deliquent in terms of public transport.

[SurfRail]

New rail corridors or nothing.  I just don't see the point otherwise.

I would actually like to see something radical here - a new line which just connects Springfield, the Flagstone UDA, Yarrabilba and Coomera.

The last thing you need is for this to be a dormitory suburb, so why should you be encouraging people to travel into the CBD by putting a direct train on?  However, you can put a direct train on to other major employment/education/retail/medical centres (principally Springfield but also in future Coomera) with their own direction connections to the CBD (principally Flagstone) without buggering up the rest of the network.

[ozbob]

At the risk of being labelled an 'ideologue',  but I can live with 'whacky dude'   ...   

+1

[colinw]

I did consider suggesting that if the Bethania to Logan Village line was re-opened, the southern leg of the angle at Bethania be used, and services from Yarrabilba run through to the local activity centre at Beenleigh.  This would require more than the present 2 platforms at Beenleigh, and probably continuation of triplication all the way to Beenleigh as well.  Advantage would be single seat journey to Beenleigh, and interchange with Gold Coast service.

I'm a "whacky dude" too.  

The thing is, this development IS going ahead, and is going to be a transport nightmare if some kind of "Class A" right of way cannot be provided.  The only such ROW that exists is the former Beaudesert branch, with all of its problems.

The alternative is greenfielding something, which would obviously provide the superior outcome.

I suspect that we will see a motorway standard road into the area emerge on the agenda in coming years.  If that happens, maybe it can be done as a road/rail project.  Or road/busway.

[#Metro]

Whatever gets built, DO NOT SPLIT THE FREQUENCY

http://www.humantransit.org/2011/02/basics-branching-or-how-transit-is-like-a-river.html

To sum up, we should suspicious whenever we see a branch drawn as though one line can effortlessly divide into two equal lines.  Often, such a branch will be called an extension, a very slightly misleading word because it suggests that an existing, known quantity of service is being extended.  In fact, a branch always means one of three things.  Either

    points beyond the branching point have less frequent service or
    one of the branches operates as a shuttle, requiring a connection, or
    in a few rare cases, the train itself comes apart, with some cars proceeding along one branch and some along the other.

[colinw]

This poll has now closed.

I'm reading a dual consensus from the results, being that Yarrabilba is viewed as an undesirable development, but if it does go ahead then a rail connection is what people here would rather see.

Given the complete lack of any information about transport links to Yarrabilba (unlike both Ripley & Flagstone where plans have been made public), I feel that it is worth querying the Government (or ULDA) about their plans.

[SurfRail]

This poll has now closed.

I'm reading a dual consensus from the results, being that Yarrabilba is viewed as an undesirable development, but if it does go ahead then a rail connection is what people here would rather see.

Given the complete lack of any information about transport links to Yarrabilba (unlike both Ripley & Flagstone where plans have been made public), I feel that it is worth querying the Government (or ULDA) about their plans.

There is some material on the TMR website actually for Yarrabilba and the region generally.  The ULDA materials are basically about getting a Gateway Motorway extension in there with rail to Beaudesert in the long term and a variety of BUZ style routes stretching between Springfield, Browns Plains, Beaudesert, Beenleigh and Loganlea.

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Projects/Name/P/Park-Ridge-Connector.aspx
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Projects/Name/L/Logan-Motorway-Corridor-Strategy.aspx
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Projects/Name/M/Mount-Lindesay-Highway-Beaudesert-Town-Centre-Bypass.aspx
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Projects/Name/M/Mount-Lindesay-Highway-Rosia-Road-to-Chambers-Flat-Road.aspx
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Projects/Name/M/Mt-Lindesay-Beaudesert-Strategic-Transport-Network-Investigation.aspx
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Projects/Name/W/West-Mt-Lindesay-Development-Corridor-Major-Road-Network.aspx

[colinw]

Thanks for those.  I was aware of some of that, but large parts of it were new to me.

This document sent shivers down my spine:
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/723d6261-c0dd-4b37-8e65-09844cd2d120/westmtlindesaydevelopmentcorridormajorroadnetworkstudy.pdf

A veritable orgy of 4 lane arterial road construction, and freeway all the way to Bromelton.  Meanwhile in other documents the proposed passenger rail to Beaudesert is "not until after 2026" (and possibly as late as 2056!), and beyond Flagstone to Beaudesert is by no means certain although at least a corridor is being preserved.

Yarrabilba itself appears to be getting some 4 lane road upgrades, maybe 120 bus services a day, and any use of the former Bethania to Beaudesert rail corridor other than as a bike/horse trail is summarily dismissed.

So, the Government's plans basically add up to a huge southward extension of sprawl, with road construction to match, a lukewarm commitment to passenger rail, and some token bus services.

[#Metro]

Well well well... what do you know.... I saw it coming...

[colinw]

Read it & weep! 

[#Metro]

Well I can't say that I am surprised... I have yet to see a city which is busway only or train only access...
People have cars and will use them.

If they are going to build roads, i would advocate allocating the 4th lane of the freeway or major road as a BRT lane for a median busway with sightly larger lanes. As loads grow, encouraged by the frequency, this can be converted, Perth-style, by laying tracks into the roadbase and wiring up the overhead for a heavy rail system. (a la Mandurah line).

At 100 million/km, core track capacity issues ("starburst effect"/core congestion due to split frequency/branching effects) and a very long distance, it is going to be a while before trains can reach that area. Even when trains do reach that area, unless buses are in operation beforehand to build up patronage to high levels, there is going to be worst-class 30 minute frequency out to that area and may be 2100 before you see 15 minute train operation.

Development out along the Rosewood line makes a lot more sense IMHO. The infrastructure is already there...

[ozbob]

Deputy Premier and Attorney-General, Minister for Local Government and Special Minister of State
The Honourable Paul Lucas
19/05/2011

Make sure you have your say on Greater Flagstone UDA

The community is being urged to have their say about the future of the Greater Flagstone Urban Development Area (UDA) with the public notification period for the UDA closing on Friday 20 May.

Deputy Premier and Minister for Local Government Paul Lucas said it was important for residents, local businesses and other stakeholders to take the opportunity to look at what is intended for the Greater Flagstone UDA and provide the Urban Land Development Authority (ULDA) with comment.

"The release of the Greater Flagstone UDA Proposed Development Scheme on 1 April has given the community a chance to contribute to the plans for an Urban Development Area (UDA) that will provide 50,000 dwellings to approximately 120,000 residents over the next three to four decades.

"The Greater Flagstone UDA Proposed Development Scheme is available on the ULDA website www.ulda.qld.gov.au and people still have the opportunity to read the scheme and have their say about the future of this area by making a written submission by Friday 20 May," he said.

"An extensive community consultation program has been run by the ULDA since the declaration of the UDA, including four community information sessions and the distribution of more than 10,000 newsletters.

"I invite residents and the business community to engage in this process and take the opportunity to shape and influence the planning outcomes in Greater Flagstone.

"This new community is about easing the pressures of housing availability and affordability and providing homes for our children, jobs for the future and sustainable well planned communities supported by infrastructure."

ULDA Chief Executive Officer Paul Eagles said planning for this community had a major focus on employment as well as ensuring enough residential and greenspace so that these new developments would be vibrant communities where people can live, work and play.

"This UDA will be developed over the next 30 - 40 years so there are some very important issues for the community to consider. If someone has an opinion they would like heard I would urge them to write a submission," Mr Eagles said.

"Ultimately, the declaration of Greater Flagstone as a UDA will increase land supply and bring more affordable key worker housing to the market which will benefit not just key workers such as nurses, teachers and police-but first home buyers as well.

"This is an exciting time for the Greater Flagstone region and I look forward to hearing the thoughts of the local community," Mr Eagles said

Greater Flagstone was declared as a UDA on 8 October 2010 as an outcome of the Queensland Growth Management Summit in March 2010 and in response to the growth needs identified in the South East Queensland Regional Plan 2009 - 2031.

==============================================================

[mufreight]

This development should not be allowed to proceed until such time as the infrastructure for public transport is in place and avaliable foe operation.

[#Metro]

I'm not defending them, but they are going to construct no matter what it seems.

Looks like a "second best" solutions will have to be looked at. Buses and roads and the way they are put together.

[colinw]

Much as a rail service down the interstate line is necessary for this development (and also for Acacia Ridge/Algester/Browns Plains/Greenbank), there's no sense in building rail down that way until CRR is in place.

I imagine we'll get loads of empty rhetoric about sustainable development, model communities, etc., while the reallity will be ever spreading sprawl supported by a multi-billion dollar road construction effort plus some token bus services.

I note that small block development is already slated for New Beith, despite the fact that the nearest bus service terminates some kilometres up the road.

[colinw]

Put it another way.

What the Government SAYS:

The Greater Flagstone UDA will be developed as a compact community that contributes to the supply of affordable housing supported by efficient and sustainable infrastructure.

What the Government DOES:

[colinw]

Here we go ...

Ministerial Media Release -> Locals part of Park Ridge Connector Study

Main Roads, Fisheries and Marine Infrastructure
The Honourable Craig Wallace

Monday, May 23, 2011

Locals part of Park Ridge Connector Study

Seventeen representatives from various local interest and community groups will help guide corridor planning of the Park Ridge Connector.

A Community Stakeholder Reference Group (CSRG) was recently selected by Main Roads Minister Craig Wallace and Logan City Council's Planning and Development Committee Chairperson, Councillor Cherie Dalley.

The Park Ridge Connector CSRG will be coordinated by Transport and Main Roads and Logan City Council and provide information to inform the Review of Environmental Factors (REF) document which is intended to be available for public display late this year.

"This is a unique approach to corridor planning which integrates state network planning, local land use planning, and community values in a single process," Mr Wallace said.

"The CSRG will allow the values and concerns of the community to directly influence the planning process and provide essential insights that can only come from a grassroots perspective."

Cr Dalley said close consideration had been given to selecting the membership of the CSRG to ensure it represented a cross–section of the community, including residents, businesses and environmental groups.

"The communities within the planning study area are culturally diverse," she said.

"The composition of the Park Ridge Connector CSRG will ensure local community views about future transport planning in Logan represent the city's diversity."

The Park Ridge Connector CSRG will meet at least five times between May and August and work in partnership with Logan City Council and Transport and Main Roads technical advisors who will help them consider the road corridor proposals by providing specialist information.

For more information visit www.tmr.qld.gov.au/prc, call 1800 799 824 or the project email parkridgeconnector@tmr.qld.gov.au.

[Eagle1]

Hello readers,
I joined this thread when my browser picked up on the words "Park Ridge Connector" - I applied for but was unsuccessful in being on the reference group to try to control this latest road project.

As posters have said, the documents behind it are very scary and the  half truths behind Yarrabilba and Flagstone about their public transport plans are amazing.

I am following this and many other south east Queensland issues closely.

Will try to keep you informed

[colinw]

Welcome Eagle1.  

I was down that way on the weekend, as I accompanied my brother in law on a 4WD trip to O'Reilly's, thence down the back way via Duck Creek Road to Darlington Park & Kerry.  (That was the 4WDing part, the rest was on normal roads).

We went to O'Reilly's via Waterford, Logan Village, Yarrabilba, meeting with some others at Canungra.

The amount of development at Waterford, and again at Logan Village, was amazing.  Even Tamborine Village and Canungra appear to be going ahead rapidly now.

The presence of new estates at Waterford, Buccan & Logan Village is hard to miss, and if you add in Yarrabilba I am convinced the population to support a public transport service will be there within 15-20 years.

I just hope the old branch line corridor is kept for future use, whether it be for heavy rail, light rail, busway or a bikeway.

Returning via Beaudesert, Jimboomba & Park Ridge was also revealing.  Sprawl spreading ever to the south, with the accompanying signs of major upgrades to the Mt Lindesay Hwy.

The area is going to need something more than just buses on public roads.

[ozbob]

Three cheers for Mr Hale!

From the Courier Mail 15th June 2011 pages 32 33

Sustainable ideals hard to find in plans for 1960s-style urban sprawl

[colinw]

Excellent article. 

That is the first sensible bit of analysis of Yarrabilba & Flagstone that I've seen in the media.

It is about time they started doing more analysis, and less quoting of Government spin.

[Stillwater]

I'd actually buy the Courier-Mail to read more stuff like that.

[O_128]

I agree, I think someone in government needs to put there foot down and say no we wont be putting public transport out here.

[colinw]

That would be ironic, given that it is a Government agency (ULDA) that is promoting accelerated development out there to start with!

[mufreight]

What else could one expect, this is the same governmet that as the then Transport Minister Nolan said it would not reinstate passenger services to Gatton as it would encourage urban sprawl.
Obviously the ULDA was reading from a different script to the Government and then Transport Minister Nothing Nolan.

[Set in train]

Great idea RTT Rules, but too innovative for our myopic crop of pollies (both parties)!!!

[O_128]

Agreed, not to mention that by this time we will most likely have the GC trains stopping all stations to loganlea then express so not hideous trip on the all stooper either.

[ozbob]

The amount of development at Waterford, and again at Logan Village, was amazing.  Even Tamborine Village and Canungra appear to be going ahead rapidly now.

The presence of new estates at Waterford, Buccan & Logan Village is hard to miss, and if you add in Yarrabilba I am convinced the population to support a public transport service will be there within 15-20 years.

I just hope the old branch line corridor is kept for future use, whether it be for heavy rail, light rail, busway or a bikeway.

Returning via Beaudesert, Jimboomba & Park Ridge was also revealing.  Sprawl spreading ever to the south, with the accompanying signs of major upgrades to the Mt Lindesay Hwy.

The area is going to need something more than just buses on public roads.

Hi all,
I had about 6 weeks spare time at Tamborine in Feb/March and had a bit of a look around the old line while there. What this area doesn't need is a typical QR gold plated rail extension and look at what Cityrail and Mel Met do, but that doesn't mean it won't support a rail line. And yes I too was suprised at the growth having visited the area over last 13 years (in laws).

My thinking
- Line Bethania to Logan Village is viable with 3 stations, Waterford near private school and on far end of current development and logan Village. Maybe to Jimboomba in future, but I think extension through Yara with a final terminus at Tamborine Village in mid 2020's with stations in Yarrabila and Tam Village which has a catchment from the Mountain, Canugra and Tamborine Village area.
- I also thought of station near retirement villages, although it is close to Bethania, its not easy access especially for the resisdents.
- Park'n'ride at Logan Village, other stations smaller Sunshine Coast style with limited parking provided (for now). Also provide push bike storage at each station. Mid way stations are kept simple with sufficent room for say two door access only, but able to be extended as required. LV station to have provision for toilets and crew requirements.
- Line will operate as single DMU shuttle using the current eMU design fitted with diesel generator for power. Bit like Adelaide's 3000 class as this keeps the overall train as close as possible to existing fleet for parts. Each of the two cars have own engine to provide redundency in case of failure, option to add 3rd trailer car in future. Or just do what Auckland did and get a couple of suitable ex English cars with a built in cab at one end and strap a 1720 at the other. No shunting required.
- No need for electronic safe working
- No passing loops between Bethania and Logan Village. Logan Village may have extra road/loop for track MTCE vehicles
- Current station at LV is wrong side, I'd rebuild it on the current loop line and place the loop on far side consider building the carpark on inland side of small gully with access from that road that crosses the river and also in paddock across the side road.
- Utilise the rail corridore to improve the bends and speed, while there is cheap land available perhaps make use of the paddocks as well for same. In many cases taking land on one side can be handed back on the other side.
- Keep the stations simple design. But still provide weather protection and security and call help buttons
- track just has to be steel sleepers with recycled rail from elsewhere (current sleepers are RS and rail probably too small for use by RPT service). Target 80km/hr with 60km/hr average. Its only I think 13km to Logan Village so if you can get the trip time to 20min you can do 1 return trip every 45min, but 30min capable would be better but how much extra would this cost?
- Train timetabled to connect with Beenleigh services say connecting around 6:00, 6:45, 7:30, 8:15, 9:00 at Bethania and same in afternoon probably starting in time for afternoon school run around 3'ish and finishing around 6:30-7:00'ish with Sat morning timetable. Minibus to supplement during day as normally numbers are unlikely to justify train in short term and provides window for track work. But otherwise 1hrly during day. Of note by pure luck city bound trains Bethania at 06/36 and Beenleigh bound arrive 07/37. Could that be much better for a connection service?

Looking forward to Future and potential of sparking. It doesn't need the CRR, Kurby trains could be extended south and onto Logan Village. Say there was a 15min timetable for suburban services on Beenleigh line, one to Beenleigh, the other to Logan Village (and beyond). I don't think Holmview and Edens Landing will miss out too much remaining on 30min. Note sure if current infrastructure could support 15min to Bethania reliably or what it takes (excercise for later).

ANyway just my thoughts, but maybe a $25-30m excercise at most with train. Govt is cash poor so why not simply contract it out and provide the subsidy to make the service a commerical return with incentives to increase pax and reduce operating costs over say a 10-15 year contract. A bit similar like Westcoast express in Vancouver.

Regards
Shane

Great proposal Shane, thanks for sharing it.  Very worthy of a serious media effort ...