Greater Flagstone and Yarrabilba Urban Development Areas

[SurfRail]

In any case they are going to completely screw up or just plain abandon CRR so there's no capacity to build any such lines anyway.

I'm not as negative as you.  The ALP was going to screw it up too, with the infrastructure south of Yeerongpilly preventing segregated services.  I think CRRlite can still get done.

The issue was a small stretch of track between Beaudesert Road and Salisbury junction.  In the grand scheme of things I would have preferred that to what we will now be getting (or not getting).

[somebody]

In any case they are going to completely screw up or just plain abandon CRR so there's no capacity to build any such lines anyway.

I'm not as negative as you.  The ALP was going to screw it up too, with the infrastructure south of Yeerongpilly preventing segregated services.  I think CRRlite can still get done.

The issue was a small stretch of track between Beaudesert Road and Salisbury junction.  In the grand scheme of things I would have preferred that to what we will now be getting (or not getting).

It was a pretty important small stretch of track.  There was no excuse for their plans.

[colinw]

The original CRR plan was bizarre around Salisbury, considering their own "rail revolution" plans showed a new line to Flagstone which would have placed pressure on that section of line.

[SurfRail]

In any case they are going to completely screw up or just plain abandon CRR so there's no capacity to build any such lines anyway.

I'm not as negative as you.  The ALP was going to screw it up too, with the infrastructure south of Yeerongpilly preventing segregated services.  I think CRRlite can still get done.

The issue was a small stretch of track between Beaudesert Road and Salisbury junction.  In the grand scheme of things I would have preferred that to what we will now be getting (or not getting).

It was a pretty important small stretch of track.  There was no excuse for their plans.

Even still, it would have been a pretty simple fix.  Bit harder to fix the absence of about 8km of extra bi-di track. 

My main concern at this point is that if it is approved, it will be for 6-cars only.

[Golliwog]

My main concern at this point is that if it is approved, it will be for 6-cars only.

The stations in the tunnel? I haven't heard any suggestions that they're scaling those back to 6 cars from 9. I don't think even budget slashing logic can defeat the point that it'd be crazy expensive to try and get back in there and make the platform long enough for 9 cars.

That said, many of the things they've done have been so they don't pay money NOW, future costs be damned.

[HappyTrainGuy]

If there was to be any reduction in platform lengths in the tunnel there could be the possability that most work would be done as a 6 car platform but leave space available for a 9 car extension in the future ie one end sealed off without any major works done - just the basic station and platform shell. AC/fan work, lighting, tiling, paintwork, maybe a second elevator etc could be done at a later point when stations futher out are decided to be upgraded too or at a later point in the project. There wouldn't be any issues with speed restrictions, signalling and so forth as there would be the platform doors there which would also prevent people from accessing the void.

[somebody]

Even still, it would have been a pretty simple fix.  Bit harder to fix the absence of about 8km of extra bi-di track. 

I don't see it like you.  That 8km of track would have added negative value, and you haven't seen them go back and fix the missing crossover at Coopers Plains.

[BrizCommuter]

If there was to be any reduction in platform lengths in the tunnel there could be the possability that most work would be done as a 6 car platform but leave space available for a 9 car extension in the future ie one end sealed off without any major works done - just the basic station and platform shell. AC/fan work, lighting, tiling, paintwork, maybe a second elevator etc could be done at a later point when stations futher out are decided to be upgraded too or at a later point in the project. There wouldn't be any issues with speed restrictions, signalling and so forth as there would be the platform doors there which would also prevent people from accessing the void.

This is pretty common practice on Metro systems to build platforms longer than initially required.

[#Metro]

Another opportunity to half bake something and not be around in govt anymore when poo hits the fan... 

Is there ANYTHING in SEQ that hasn't had key critical things botched in some way?

[SurfRail]

If there was to be any reduction in platform lengths in the tunnel there could be the possability that most work would be done as a 6 car platform but leave space available for a 9 car extension in the future ie one end sealed off without any major works done - just the basic station and platform shell. AC/fan work, lighting, tiling, paintwork, maybe a second elevator etc could be done at a later point when stations futher out are decided to be upgraded too or at a later point in the project. There wouldn't be any issues with speed restrictions, signalling and so forth as there would be the platform doors there which would also prevent people from accessing the void.

This is pretty common practice on Metro systems to build platforms longer than initially required.

And in Perth with a number of recent upgrades on the "surface" lines (eg Kelmscott, Victoria Park).

[SurfRail]

Even still, it would have been a pretty simple fix.  Bit harder to fix the absence of about 8km of extra bi-di track. 

I don't see it like you.  That 8km of track would have added negative value, and you haven't seen them go back and fix the missing crossover at Coopers Plains.

I don't follow your argument.  The ALP's plan called for an extra 2 tracks between around Beaudesert Road and Yeerongpilly to separate the local and express patterns, and an extra pair between Albion and Victoria Park.  The only deficiency was about a kilometre of missing outbound track between Nyanda and Salisbury.  You seem to quibbling about that minor omission when the LNP isn't proposing to deliver any of the extra track needed except from the tunnel portal to the other tunnel portal.

[somebody]

The issue is that the way it was planned it would have broken sectorisation which is possible without the extra track.  I also don't like the service plans of via South Bank trains extending to Kuraby after CRR.

[somebody]

Are you saying that you foresee superior services with that extra trackage?  My understanding (IIRC) is that for stations from Moorooka to Fruitgrove only Coopers Plains will see any improvement.  I can't support that.

[Old Northern Road]

A 4th track will eventually need to be built south of Salisbury so it makes sense to build that last bit at that time.

I would run all station trains to Altandi rather than Kuraby as that will allow Altandi to become major bus interchange.

Altandi - all stations via Merrivale
Beenleigh - express Altandi to Yeerongpilly via CRR
Gold Coast - express Beenleigh to Yeerongpilly stopping Loganlea and Altandi via CRR

Four tracks would be needed at least as far as Altandi and possibly further depending on how frequent the Beenleigh and Gold Coast trains run (as far as Kuraby or maybe even Woodridge).

[SurfRail]

The issue is that the way it was planned it would have broken sectorisation which is possible without the extra track.  I also don't like the service plans of via South Bank trains extending to Kuraby after CRR.

The fact of the matter is that unless this happens it will be a waste of the capacity.  Cleveland and the inner Beenleigh line do not justify 20+ trains per hour to themselves.

[somebody]

The issue is that the way it was planned it would have broken sectorisation which is possible without the extra track.  I also don't like the service plans of via South Bank trains extending to Kuraby after CRR.

The fact of the matter is that unless this happens it will be a waste of the capacity.  Cleveland and the inner Beenleigh line do not justify 20+ trains per hour to themselves.

Conversely, the outer Beenleigh and Gold Coast services combined will not fill up the new CRR tunnel.  I'd far rather the superior path via CRR had the extra trains than the inferior path via South Bank.  You might actually get more people using the trains by doing it that way.

[somebody]

Campbell is not anti-rail and neither is Abbott

lol

[SurfRail]

The numbers invested into public transport since the 2007 election dwarf anything spent by the Libs in the preceding decade (ie nil).

[somebody]

Campbell is not anti-rail and neither is Abbott

lol

I invite you to go forth and demonstrate any particular leader/opp leader/party pro or anti rail stance.

Sorry the 'ol saying ALP pro rail and LNP anti-rail is BS. It may have been 20+ years ago if it ever was, but I doubt it was.

Didn't Abbott put in his book "Battlelines" that "There aren't enough people going from one place to another to justify a vehicle bigger than a car" or some such nonsense?  Crikey posted this: http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/2012/07/01/do-new-freeways-signify-progress/

Newman - removing bus lanes

Howard - removing fuel excise indexation + 1.5c/L reduction in excise.  The cost of this is now up to $5bn p.a. Link: http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/2012/03/15/what-did-abolition-of-petrol-excise-indexation-cost-us/

NSW Libs appeared to have lost a pretty unlosable election in 2007 for having no PT policies.

Doesn't seem to be BS to me. 

[#Metro]

The ALP had 20 years to supply TUZ services. They didn't do it. Funding was poured into more concrete and high profile infrastructure rather than actually supplying more services.

To their credit though, they did supply the busway, which is a major achievement.

[Old Northern Road]

I think Tony Abbott is one of the most anti-PT politicians in the country. The only money I can see him spending is for road projects for rural Queensland to ensure none of his supporters vote for Bob Katter.

Campbell Newman has said many times that roads are his first priority with public transport being a very distant second. Remember that he also said that he would have cancelled the Gold Coast light rail if it wasn't already so far advanced.

[Old Northern Road]

The issue is that the way it was planned it would have broken sectorisation which is possible without the extra track.  I also don't like the service plans of via South Bank trains extending to Kuraby after CRR.

The fact of the matter is that unless this happens it will be a waste of the capacity.  Cleveland and the inner Beenleigh line do not justify 20+ trains per hour to themselves.

Conversely, the outer Beenleigh and Gold Coast services combined will not fill up the new CRR tunnel.  I'd far rather the superior path via CRR had the extra trains than the inferior path via South Bank.  You might actually get more people using the trains by doing it that way.

I agree. Also CRR should allow for 24tph so even if the Flagstone line is built there will be more than enough capacity. And if the Ipswich/ Springfield lines ever require more than 20tph you can run some of the trains via the suburbans.

[#Metro]

Campbell Newman has said many times that roads are his first priority with public transport being a very distant second. Remember that he also said that he would have cancelled the Gold Coast light rail if it wasn't already so far advanced.

Well, what do you expect - he's from The Purveyors of Concrete - an engineer, and it if isn't big, expensive and involve lots of concrete, they won't look at it.

That said, he would be well acquainted with the BUZ network and it's importance.

[Golliwog]

Campbell Newman has said many times that roads are his first priority with public transport being a very distant second. Remember that he also said that he would have cancelled the Gold Coast light rail if it wasn't already so far advanced.

Well, what do you expect - he's from The Purveyors of Concrete - an engineer, and it if isn't big, expensive and involve lots of concrete, they won't look at it.

That said, he would be well acquainted with the BUZ network and it's importance.

I'd just like to come out in defense of engineers here and say:
a) with the wide variety of disciplines, I'd be surprised if Civil/Structural engineers even made up 50% of engineers.
b) Campbell Newman isn't representative of all Civil Engineers. I'd know, I am one!

[somebody]

My understanding on the fuel excise was due to GST changes.

Not quite right.  While the fuel excise was reduced to compensate for the GST, the removal of indexation was completely separate, and done for ideological reasons.  Here's an article: http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/pm-rules-out-fuel-excise-cut/2005/09/23/1126982208681.html

According to that, the indexation was removed in 2001 while the GST came in in 2000.  But I guess that's neither here nor there.

[ozbob]

7 News --> Satellite cities causing problems in SEQ

[#Metro]

This is madness on a colossal scale. These properties are not cheap - the rail line will have to be extended out to those areas at absolutely incredible cost.

These developments are possible because there isn't Land Tax on residential land. With taxation inner areas already on the PT network would see an increase in multi-family housing.

[ozbob]

Yarrabilba. New school. @AnnastaciaMP @katejonesqld @abcnews #qldpol pic.twitter.com/OSLaUsVRp9

— Chris O'Brien (@COBrienBris) February 21, 2016

[verbatim9]

Steve Austin and the Federal Mp were talking about this subject on ABC 612 this morning Re Heavy or Light Rail in the area.

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Villa World and Greenfield Development Company pay $50 million for 153ha slice of the Teviot Downs Estate at Greenbank

ASX-listed residential property developer Villa World and Sydney's Greenfields Development Company have paid $50 million for a development site south of Brisbane.

The 153ha site at Greenbank has been approved for 1000 residential lots for part of the site and the new joint venture partners will seek approval for 1500 lots for the full site with home sites ranging from 300sq m to 2000sq m.

The site was purchased from Teviot Downs Estate through a marketing campaign by Tony Williams and Mark Creevey from Ray White Special Projects (QLD)

Villa World managing director Craig Treasure, said the project was an "excellent fit" for the company's strength in delivering a product that offers value within an affordable budget.

"We are pleased to build our relationship with Greenfields, following on from our development agreement in south west Sydney," he said.

The Greenbank site is one of the most substantial residential land parcels in southeast Queensland. It comprises the northern or urban balance area of the award-winning Teviot Downs Estate at Greenbank within the Greater Flagstone Urban Development Area.

It is also in the Logan council area which is one of the largest and fastest growing cities in Australia.

Greenfields chairman, Tony Perich, said: "We are pleased to be diversifying into Queensland in partnership with proven residential developer Villa World."

[Marshal]

Maybe we should rethink how we handle trunk infrastructure fees to developers to place more emphasis on providing for public transport. The main route for anyone heading into the city from flagstone via car will likely be Beaudesert road. From personal experience around peak hour Beaudesert and the immediately surrounding roads between Browns Plains and Sunnybank Hills are an absolute nightmare traffic wise in peak hour. The Compton and Gowan Road intersection for example is an intersection between two roads that are otherwise quite tame for traffic, but due to how close they are to Beaudesert Road the intersection becomes clogged at peak something shocking.

The obvious solution is to actually get a commuter rail line running through the Sydney-Brisbane corridor, but between the funding issues with cross river rail and the capacity issues we have because we don't have cross river rail, its pretty hopeless. Surely if developers want to profit from locating more and more people in satellite cities not currently serviced sufficiently by public transport, they should more actively contribute to the transport infrastructure necessary to make moving these people feasible. After all, their land is far more valuable if they can say there will be a rail line running straight between it and the city within the next decade.

[#Metro]

One has to remember that outside SEQ, PT is virtually non-existent.

If these people lived at Cedar Woods (13 km from CBD), it would be a simple task to run a bus from the local rail station (which already exists) to the development. But for developments located in la la land, its next to impossible.

We haven't even got SC line sorted, and look, there are around 500 000 people on the other end of it.

From personal experience around peak hour Beaudesert and the immediately surrounding roads between Browns Plains and Sunnybank Hills are an absolute nightmare traffic wise in peak hour. The Compton and Gowan Road intersection for example is an intersection between two roads that are otherwise quite tame for traffic, but due to how close they are to Beaudesert Road the intersection becomes clogged at peak something shocking.

I would like to see rapid transit (busway, metro) extended along the main road through Sunnybank to Calamvale in the first instance. I think alternative alignments are poorly aligned.

[ozbob]

Plenty of PT outside SEQ > http://www.qld.gov.au/transport/public/transport/timetables/qconnect/

#justsaying

[Old Northern Road]

Cairns has a better bus network than Moreton Bay and Ipswich (that's not saying much though)

[SurfRail]

To this day I don't understand how they can justify a network like that in Cairns while we are flat out getting buses past 5pm in the 3rd and 6th largest cities in the country.

[CQRail]

Townsville has a fairly decent bus network in regards to coverage and service, longer and more frequent operating hours than some of those in Moreton/Ipswich. Route 201 has half hour frequency until 5am Friday and Saturday nights.

[ozbob]

24th April 2018

Media Release
Minister for State Development, Manufacturing, Infrastructure and Planning
The Honourable Cameron Dick

Work begins on $3.6 million community hub in Yarrabilba

The first sod has been turned for the $3.6 million Yarrabilba Family, Children and Community Hub, creating 12 jobs during construction.

Minister for State Development, Manufacturing, Infrastructure and Planning Cameron Dick said the State Government had fully funded the construction of the Hub, and continues to work with stakeholders through the Community Hub and Partnerships (CHaPS) program.

"The CHaPs program is continuing to bring together industry and government with the community services sector to produce real social outcomes," Mr Dick said.

"The Palaszczuk Government recognises that co-locating services in key community sites such as Yarrabilba State School will give Yarrabilba families easy access to the services they need and assist Yarrabilba children get the best start in life.

"The Department of State Development, Manufacturing, Infrastructure and Planning has engaged Deloitte Access Economics to hold a range of workshops and online surveys to identify the community's aspirations and vision for the hub and establish priorities for hub services and activities."

Education Minister Grace Grace said the community hub was expected to be completed by August 2018 and would help to meet the needs of the rapidly growing Yarrabilba area.

"The hub will be co-located with the new Yarrabilba State School, which opened in January this year," Ms Grace said.

"With more than 45,000 people expected to be living in Yarrabilba by 2041, projects like the community hub will be key to supporting the health and learning needs of local families."

Member for Logan Linus Power said when the Hub was fully developed, local residents would have access to a wide range of services for families and children including health, early learning, broader community support activities and consulting services from visiting specialists.

Mr Power said Queensland's community sector workforce in Yarrabilba will be provided with a great facility to serve people in their local community.

"This is a great community base for expanding local services into Yarrabilba," Mr Power said.

"I'm always excited to see the Palaszczuk Government bring more services into Yarrabilba. We have a strong track record on delivering for this new community, such as the Yarrabilba State School we are in today.

"This hub will also provide links to training and employment opportunities."

Mr Dick said the CHaPS program is about not only creating opportunity for people and improving lives, it's about generating employment and economic outcomes as well.

"A further 20,000 jobs in the community sector will be needed to meet future growth across Queensland," Mr Dick said.

"That's on top of the 65,000 strong workforce we currently have."

For more information on the Community Hub and Partnerships program, visit www.dsdmip.qld.gov.au/chaps 


ENDS

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> $1.2b roads deal sealed for Flagstone future city

A MASSIVE southeast Queensland housing development that would rank as one of Australia's 20 biggest cities and towns has taken a step forward with the signing of a landmark $1.2 billion infrastructure deal.

State Development Minister Cameron Dick says the Flagstone agreement is the biggest infrastructure deal of its type by any government in Australia, and will lead to the delivery of roads and other infrastructure underpinning the massive Yarrabilba and Greater Flagstone developments in the state's southeast.

Almost 200,000 people are expected to have moved into the two developments by 2066, when the projects are finished.

The projects within Logan City are in the state's ­Priority Development Areas earmarked by the State Government for accelerated development.

The deal, to be announced today, has been struck between Logan City Council, State Government and nine key developers to ensure roads, water supply and wastewater infrastructure are paid for without burdening ratepayers within the rapidly growing area.
"Today's announcement is about ensuring high quality infrastructure to support these growing communities over the next four decades," Mr Dick said.

The Greater Flagstone development, which covers more than 7000ha west of Jimboomba, was approved in 2010 and will take up to 50 years to build. By then, it is predicted to have 50,000 homes for up to 120,000 people.

Yarrabilba, approved in 2011, covers more than 2000ha and is expected to have 20,000 houses for an estimated 50,000 people when completed over 20 to 30 years. Like Greater Flagstone, houses are already for sale.

Logan council interim administrator Tamara O'Shea said the two developments would deliver a "substantial proportion of the new housing needed in southeast Queensland over the next three to four decades".

She said the nine key developers would fund the infrastructure through upfront charges, over and above their development costs.

It meant the infrastructure to connect the new housing with surrounding networks would be delivered "without placing an impost on existing ratepayers," she said.

That included 170km of council road upgrades over the next six years, and up to $400 million in infrastructure investment, that would support more than 130 construction jobs a year, Mr Dick said.

[ozbob]

http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2019/5/26/infrastructure-deal-paves-way-for-communities-to-prosper

Media Statements

Minister for State Development, Manufacturing, Infrastructure and Planning
The Honourable Cameron Dick

Sunday, May 26, 2019

Infrastructure deal paves way for communities to prosper

The Palaszczuk Government, Logan City Council and nine key developers have signed a landmark agreement to deliver $1.2 billion of essential infrastructure for the Yarrabilba and Greater Flagstone priority development areas (PDAs).

Minister for State Development, Manufacturing, Infrastructure and Planning Cameron Dick said the deal is the largest infrastructure agreement of its type to be executed by any government in Australia and will secure the infrastructure needs of the community over the next 45 years.

"Today's announcement is about ensuring high quality infrastructure to support these growing communities over the next four decades," he said.

"Flagstone and Yarrabilba are in Queensland's fastest growing population corridor, with estimates that by 2066 there will be 200,000 people living in these areas.

Mr Dick said Australian Bureau of Statistics data shows during 2017-2018 Queensland had the highest interstate migration of 24,700 people.

"We boast amazing weather, beautiful natural landscapes and opportunities for employment and investment, it's no wonder Queensland is a magnet for interstate migration.

"To support and service these emerging communities we need to deliver essential infrastructure, and this agreement proves the necessary funding and framework to deliver local roads, water and sewerage facilities.

"Some 170 kilometres of council roads will be upgraded through these developer contributions and over the next six years alone, the agreement will see up to $400 million in infrastructure investment, which will support more than 130 construction jobs each year."

Across the two development areas, many services and facilities have already been delivered, including two primary schools, retail precincts, the Yarrabilba Family and Community Place, sports and community hub and major sports and recreational parks. A state primary and high school are scheduled to open in 2020 as well as independent schools.

There are two further schools (one state and one independent) each in the planning phase for greater Flagstone and Yarrabilba.

Logan City Council Interim Administrator, Tamara O'Shea, welcomed the agreement.

"The nine key developers will fund the infrastructure through upfront charges, over and above their development costs within the PDAs.

"This guarantees the roads, water supply and wastewater infrastructure needed to connect the emerging communities with the surrounding networks are delivered without placing an impost on existing ratepayers.

"These two PDAs will deliver a substantial portion of the new housing needed in South East Queensland over the next three to four decades.

"This historic agreement provides the foundation for these new communities to become part of the city of Logan," she said.

Member for Jordan, Charis Mullen MP, who represents the Greater Flagstone area congratulated all parties on reaching an agreement.

"It's always been a priority to ensure that the infrastructure required to meet the needs of the community keeps pace with these new development areas.

"The agreement paves the way for a strong and growing community in the area which will benefit new and existing residents."

Member for Logan Linus Power, who represents the Yarrabilba area said the infrastructure will benefit all of southern Logan, not just the Flagstone/Yarrabilba areas.

"It is critical that new residents in these communities have the infrastructure to deliver reliable water supply, environmentally-responsible wastewater treatment systems, practical pedestrian and cycle linkages and an effective and safe road network," he said.

"Developer investments will ensure the infrastructure is built to accommodate young families as they move in."

Prominent Flagstone developer Peet Limited welcomed today's announcement.

Peet's Queensland General Manager Michael Stone said they are excited to be part of the partnership with the Logan City Council and the State Government.

"We are proud of our fast-growing Flagstone community, and our contribution to building critical infrastructure which will support families for many years to come, like the fantastic regional park we are meeting at today."

Yarrabilba developer, Lendlease Communities General Manager for Queensland, Guy Gibson said the strong level of collaboration and commitment by all parties will see major infrastructure improvements and support the ongoing planning and servicing for the Yarrabilba community and Greater Flagstone.

"New, high-quality communities like Yarrabilba have a vital role to play in accommodating the continued growth of the region," Mr Gibson said.

"The finalisation of these Infrastructure Agreements with the State Government and Logan City Council is an important milestone in ensuring that over the next 45 years the project continues to be well planned and appropriately serviced."

Mr Dick said that the infrastructure agreement is sustainable, encourages appropriate development, and provides landowners and developers with certainty.

"We are delivering the essential services and infrastructure to ensure our state can grow."

For more information about Greater Flagstone and Yarrabilba Priority Development Areas, visit www.edq@dsdmip.qld.gov.au
ENDS

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1132445422717288448