Greater Flagstone and Yarrabilba Urban Development Areas

[Old Northern Road]

The old Beaudesert line doesn't go anywhere near Yarrabilba. It's over 5km away at the closest. I can't imagine a development like this being allowed in any other state in Australia.

[colinw]

This is longer term stuff, and doesn't necessarily need to be rail.

Corridor preservation is actually already guaranteed for the relevant  bits of the Beaudesert Branch, the Government has already announced the branch will be getting a cycle/walking/horse trail conversion.  Beyond Logan Village I couldn't give a fig, as after the nice straight bit through LV the branch enters a horrendous series of reverse curves that continue most of the way to Jimboomba.

Jimboomba is best served by buses down the Mt Lindesay Hwy and the planned extension of the Gateway Motorway to Park Ridge.  At the far end of the corridor there is again horrid alignment through to Veresdale, but the straighter bit from Gleneagle to Beaudesert is meant to preserved for a future electrified line that will come off the Interstate corridor between Flagstone & Bromelton (assuming the Newman Government hasn't axed the corridor acquisition that was happening under Bligh).  This is 2050s stuff, and frankly I'd hate to see Beaudesert fully integrated into the commuter belt anyway.

The Yarrabilba bit of the Canungra Branch is also de-facto preserved.  Have a look in Google Maps, you can still clearly see the former junction,  and a gazetted but not built road called Railway Parade which IS the branch line right of way.   To get to the heart of Yarrabilba you just need the first 3-4km of this former line, which has perfectly acceptable alignment for the bit we need.

Of course if it gets a road plopped on it then its all over.

We have bigger fish to fry in SEQ at present, but it is imperative that corridors are preserved to any of these satellite developments.  I therefore propose that our position should be:

1.  Opposition in principle to developments such as Yarrabilba in difficult to access areas with poor infrastructure.
2.  Conceding that Yarrabilba is going ahead regardless of 1, corridor preservation Bethania to Logan Village, thence the "Railway Parade" bit of the Canungra branch through to the heart of Yarrabilba.
3.  No position on eventual mode, or timing of construction other than "not yet".  For now the corridor can be kept & used for bikes & hiking, or just left fallow.  Old rail infrastructure should be removed.
4.  No position on the Beaudesert Branch beyond Logan Village as far as Gleneagle, as it is not relevant to SEQ public transport.
5. Support for improvement to bus services to & through Jimboomba.
6. Support for acquisition & preservation of an eventual electric rail corridor to Beaudesert via the Interstate line & Gleneagle.
7. No position on the former Canungra branch beyond Yarrabilba, but support for at least a basic level of bus service to Tamborine Village & Canungra.

cheers,
Colin

[SurfRail]

The old Beaudesert line doesn't go anywhere near Yarrabilba. It's over 5km away at the closest. I can't imagine a development like this being allowed in any other state in Australia.

Ellenbrook?

[SurfRail]

I think Colin's position is pragmatic and sensible.

[huddo45]

Bethania to Logan Village is the Beaudesert line

Logan Village to Canungra is the Canungra Branch and this runs right through the Yarrabilba estate and up to Tamborine Village. I've driven around the area to find the old branch and found it on Plunkett Road and down near Logan Village running along "Railway Pde" there are no other roads to follow it. But if you look on Google Maps in map mode in 500-1000m resolution you can see the line as its shown, but stops at Plunkett road. I have not found where it crossed the ridge at Tamborine Village but Google Earth seems to show a road that has the rail alignment look about it running into the Back of Tambo Village right into the 4 way junction. From there it may have made up Leach road???


regards
Shane

For those interested in closed railway lines there is an overlay for Google Earth that sets out to show all railways in Australia past and present. The creator goes by the nickname hairylegs. The latest version rev03 24/10/12 can be found and downloaded here at the OzRoads website.
http://www.ozroads.com.au/rail/
Enjoy

[Otto]

I take it that the green is for Tram Lines ?
If it is, he's missed a couple that I know of.

[huddo45]

I take it that the green is for Tram Lines ?
If it is, he's missed a couple that I know of.

He has left out Greenslopes and Cavendish Rd which were closed in the days B.C. (Before Clem), were they the ones you spotted? Some of the teminii are a bit off and it would be good to see the depots as well. This is his first effort with the tramways included so maybe he'll do better next time.

[Old Northern Road]

The old Beaudesert line doesn't go anywhere near Yarrabilba. It's over 5km away at the closest. I can't imagine a development like this being allowed in any other state in Australia.

Ellenbrook?

Ellenbrook is only 20km from Perth's CBD while Yarrabilba is around 40km from Brisbane's CBD.

[Old Northern Road]

The Yarrabilba bit of the Canungra Branch is also de-facto preserved.  Have a look in Google Maps, you can still clearly see the former junction,  and a gazetted but not built road called Railway Parade which IS the branch line right of way.   To get to the heart of Yarrabilba you just need the first 3-4km of this former line, which has perfectly acceptable alignment for the bit we need.

The first bit of Railway Parade from Logan Village to Georgina Drive has already been built.

Even if the line could be built I don't think it should. Spending billions of dollars on building a railway that will only serve a relatively small amount of people (50,000 or so) just isn't acceptable when so much else of SEQ is without adequate public transport. The line would also be quite slow and indirect particularly if it's going to have to serve most stations on the Beenleigh line.

[red dragin]

I take it that the green is for Tram Lines ?
If it is, he's missed a couple that I know of.

He has left out Greenslopes and Cavendish Rd which were closed in the days B.C. (Before Clem), were they the ones you spotted? Some of the teminii are a bit off and it would be good to see the depots as well. This is his first effort with the tramways included so maybe he'll do better next time.

I believe he is from NSW? as well, so not a bad effort for a non brisbanite. I loaded this for the first time today,  I am now intrigued by the little tramways (I think) on Mt Glorious etc.

[SurfRail]

The old Beaudesert line doesn't go anywhere near Yarrabilba. It's over 5km away at the closest. I can't imagine a development like this being allowed in any other state in Australia.

Ellenbrook?

Ellenbrook is only 20km from Perth's CBD while Yarrabilba is around 40km from Brisbane's CBD.

There isn't much practical distinction, both are about as far off the grid even if Ellenbrook is closer to it's CBD.

[Old Northern Road]

Disagree. If the majority of people are going to be commuting to the CBD then it makes a huge difference. The road network around Ellenbrook seems far more advanced as well (Plunkett Rd which is the southern border of Yarrabilba is only one lane).

They might be similar but Yarrabilba is clearly far worse

[SurfRail]

Disagree. If the majority of people are going to be commuting to the CBD then it makes a huge difference. The road network around Ellenbrook seems far more advanced as well (Plunkett Rd which is the southern border of Yarrabilba is only one lane).

They might be similar but Yarrabilba is clearly far worse

I'd be inclined to think most people won't be commuting to the city though.  It's further south from Brisbane than Ormeau/Pimpama and closer to the Gold Coast.  Unlike Ellenbrook there are considerably more large employment generators closer than the city like Yatala, Beenleigh, Browns Plains, Coomera, Loganholme, Logan Central, Helensvale.  With Ellenbrook, you've basically got only Morley, Midland and a few industrial areas like Malaga.

[HappyTrainGuy]

I love it how DMUs always keep getting brought up. The line won't cost much but the kicker is there aren't any DMUs in the CityTrain fleet. As I always say until the backbone network is up to scratch. Boohoo. Run a proper railbus and feeder network. If it was a proper rail bus it would run for the majority express with a few pick up points (Take the 250 to Cleveland/Victoria Point - outbound half the Brisbane-Cleveland route is express while other bus routes pick up the slack). If they won't get on a quick bus to feed into the existing network why would they get on a crappy frequency DMU that does the same job. Fix up the current mess on the southside with the lack of CRR, running patterns and frequency. Get more electric rollingstock for the existing network and the other bonuses associated with NGR. Address the current shortfalls and THEN start looking at building new branch lines. Consider purchasing DMUs for use on the Translink network. Build corridors proper the first time around and don't follow some windy slow allignment because the track is already there in most parts.

[somebody]

I think it would be over QR's dead body that they would introduce DMUs.  There's no need for them.

[colinw]

Folks, this is all pointless foam at this time.  This situation on the ground in Yarrabilba area is equivalent to Springfield in about 1991, and nothing, I repeat NOTHING, is going to happen for many years to come other than a basic developer funded bus.

I suggest taking a chill pill and perhaps re-reading my post above.  The name of the game here is corridor preservation, but there's no need to get all bent out of shape about mode selection or anything else at this time. It is simply far too soon to worry about such things.

Since that previous post I have done a little more digging, and it appears that in fact the Yarrabilba development will be preserving the Canungra branch corridor as the only designated public transport corridor to be preserved.  ALL other road corridor designations are to be extinguished.

Details here

Ignoring the slightly dodgy history ...

6.4 Infrastructure

6.4.1 Roads

Yarrabilba will essentially be a 'self contained' community, based on contemporary
sustainable design principles. Connectivity, legibility and safety will be paramount to its
success as a place that people will live, work and play. In order to achieve these objectives a
comprehensive local road network strategy needs to be developed for roads ranging from
attractive public transport carrying sub-arterial distributors through to pedestrian friendly
access streets.

The existing road reserves on the site, illustrated in orange in Figure 12, should not be viewed
as a constraint during the development of the Yarrabilba LUSP Area. Apart from the
Bethania-Canungra rail corridor, these roads have no historical significance and are not
required to be retained for any strategic transport purposes. The Bethania-Canungra rail
corridor connected Logan Village through Camp Cable to Plunkett Station and on to
Canungra during the American occupation of the site during World War Two. This alignment
has been partially retained and has been nominated were appropriate as a potential future
public transport alignment.

Design / Planning criteria:

Adopt Logan City Council's latest Roads Desired Standards of Service for the
Yarrabilba Structure Plan.

• Provide adequate width along Waterford Tamborine Road to accommodate future
upgrade requirements.
• Specific attention should be given to the treatment of Collector Streets with respect to
direct vehicle access, façade treatment and streetscape outcomes. Collector Streets
carrying 3000vdp or less are to be granted direct lot access, while access to those
carrying up to 7500vpd will be assessed on a case by case basis.
• Assume that all existing internal road reserves can be extinguished other than the
Bethania-Canungra historical rail alignment which is to be retained for potential future
public transport purposes where applicable.
• Streets should make direct connections to key facilities and amenities. Development
should consider streets that run perpendicular to open spaces and areas of high
amenity to ensure the value of the amenity is spread throughout the community by
maintaining a strong spatial relationship and visual connection.
• Provide a clear street hierarchy, utilising the profiles offered in the Logan City Council
DSS, to reduce the number of vehicles on local roads and distribute vehicular traffic
safely and efficiently.
• A palette of physically distinguishing features should be provided for all movement
networks from arterial routes to local streets based on function, legibility,
convenience, traffic volumes, vehicle speed, public safety and amenity.
• An interconnected street network is the most efficient way to achieve an integrated
neighbourhood. This provides the most permeable and legible movement framework
and allows for a range of movement choices by allowing all forms of traffic to be
dispersed throughout the development. The street network can be either orthogonal
or irregular depending on the topographical demands of the site.
• Street spacing in residential areas are normally larger than those in highly pedestrian
spaces such as in town centres or mixed use areas. Development blocks and
subsequent street/road spacing should respond to proposed precinct land uses and
building types.

6.4.2 Public Transport
Public Transport at Yarrabilba will provide an affordable, reliable alternative to traditional
modes of personal transport connecting residents to local and regional destinations and
facilities.
Local public transport at Yarrabilba will focus primarily on bus services, based on on-road
alignments, in line with the Logan City Council DSS. Potential alignment separation will be
encouraged in the vicinity of intersection treatments in order to increase public transport
efficiency and subsequent attraction. The location of the Public Transport routes and
subsequent residential access will be based on current Logan City Council requirement which
stipulates that 90% of new residential dwellings are within 400 meters of an existing or
potential future bus stop.
Regional public transport networks will be in accordance with the Mt Lindsay/Beaudesert
Strategic Transport Network Investigation (STNI) report which outlines required future
connections to multimodal transport hubs at Loganlea and Flagstone. These connections will
radiate from either the Camp Cable and Waterford-Tambourine Road intersection or the
aforementioned Bethania-Canungra rail corridor. A Park 'n' Ride facility will facilitate
connectivity between the regional system, local residents, employees and local bus services,
and be designed in accordance with current Queensland Transport specifications. Attention
must also be given to the proximity of the Park'n'Ride to the Southern Infrastructure Corridor
(SIC) and any future employment generating uses.

Design / Planning criteria:

• Local bus routes are to be 'on-road' services with separation only at critical
intersections;
• 90% of all residents must be within 400m (radially) of a future bus stop;
• Bus stops are to coincide with community focus areas such as open spaces, centres,
schools or dedicated community facilities, and/or major nodes on the
pedestrian/cycleway system where possible.
• A Park'n'Ride facility in accordance with Queensland Transport specifications will be
established in the northern portion of Yarrabilba, adjacent to the SIC alignment if
possible, and connected to the previously mentioned major intersection at Camp
Cable and Waterford-Tamborine Roads or Bethania-Canungra rail corridor.
• The local Yarrabilba bus route will recognise the Park'n'Ride facility as a major
destination;
• The Park'n'Ride will be co-located with a Local or Neighbourhood Centre if possible
for safety and surveillance purposes and preferably be located within 400m of the
MIBA/ Enterprise precinct.

Now, perhaps a little debate about this in context of the reality of what is planned?

There is nothing in the above to indicate that a rail solution is in play, or that retention of the rail corridor means something on a dedicated right of way is planned any time soon.  It is good that the corridor is to be kept 'though, as it may be of use some day.

[mufreight]

All this foam about Yarrabilla is just that, so much fantasy foam that a 747 full of fuel on fire could be extinguished.
Yes a transport corridor needs to be preserved, end of subject for the next 20 years and move on to the more real present needs and make a usefull contribution to some meaningfull debate.
Colin W in his post tells it like it is and make sense with his contribution without drowning everyone in fantasy foam.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Realistically we don't have the mtce facility to maintain the next fleet either but the Springfield line extension is almost finished, the Kippa Ring line hasn't "officially" started construction but parts of the corridor would just fly off the handle speed wise (the Bruce Highway overpass and Petrie works would be the longest parts - it wouldn't suprise me if they can finish the line ahead of its mid 2016 schedule if funding isn't an issue), the Lawnton to Petrie tripple works would futher increase capacity, the southside hasn't had their network review to increase capacity for additional services and yet the NGR still doesn't have a public tender announced due to Government delays. Morning peak hour should be fun in a couple years

Overlooking the Kippa Ring line leading to the future Mango Hill East station.


Ah, I must have missed that post.

There is still capacity on the trains. Part two of the network review would shuffle them around and fix up any capacity problems like Caboolture had with empty peak hour trains running, certain trains perferred to earlier/later services, trains stopping more/adding a few additional services, rollingstock utilisation and positioning along with other problems such as the current morning Kuraby service delaying the outbound Gold Coast services.

RTT, how do you think people who live in Cashmere, Warner, Lawnton, Joyner, Petrie, Murrumba Downs and parts of Bracken Ridge/Bridgeman Downs catch the train or bus to the city? Or even Narangba or Burpengary? They catch the feeder bus or drive to the station or nearby interchange. If they choose to live out in the sticks expect to drive a short distance to one of the key rail bus stops to access the PT network.

Top notch??? Mate, I can't even catch a bus to go see a movie at the local cinema a few km down the road at 6pm and I live about 20km from the CBD. Brisbane..... well, the whole PT network in SEQ needs a kick in the ass.

I echo colins and mufreights statements.

[somebody]

Simon, hopefully common sense and not QR's latest emtion will prevail like it has in the south and DMU's are used on marginal routes where an accurate business analysis shows the CAPEX outweighs the OPEX benefit. Only difference being I think all the DMU services operate on historic lines. If O/H traction was so cheap, why hasn't be been run to Geelong or Nowra?

Bombaderry (Nowra) - that's because there isn't enough room in the tunnels for it.
Geelong - I'm genuinely surprised about that one, particularly with RFR which could have included it.  Perhaps it's largely because they have an all diesel fleet and don't want a mixed fleet.  Even that argument struggles to hold up when you consider that it could have been included with RFR.

[#Metro]

Yarrabilba will essentially be a 'self contained' community, based on contemporary
sustainable design principles.

Nonsense. The only essentially self contained communities are those contained on islands and prison developments.
Residents will drive to Brisbane for work and also the Gold Coast because that's where the high paying jobs are. There are people on the Sunshine Coast who easily do 100km + round trip commutes every day, and the Sunshine Coast has hospitals, schools, airports, parks, beaches, universities and blah blah blah, what's to say this is going to be any different.

The location of the Public Transport routes and
subsequent residential access will be based on current Logan City Council requirement which
stipulates that 90% of new residential dwellings are within 400 meters of an existing or
potential future bus stop.

What this means is that bus services will be routed into mazes to satisfy this coverage requirement resulting in super slow anti-patronage services so bad that everyone will get a car and no one will use it.

[mufreight]

Reports of smow at Yarrabilla overnight, or perhaps that was just more foam.  Wrong colour and did not smell right to be droppings fron a herd of      flying over so had to be either foam or snow.      

[SurfRail]

Yarrabilba will essentially be a 'self contained' community, based on contemporary
sustainable design principles.

Nonsense. The only essentially self contained communities are those contained on islands and prison developments.
Residents will drive to Brisbane for work and also the Gold Coast because that's where the high paying jobs are. There are people on the Sunshine Coast who easily do 100km + round trip commutes every day, and the Sunshine Coast has hospitals, schools, airports, parks, beaches, universities and blah blah blah, what's to say this is going to be any different.

The location of the Public Transport routes and
subsequent residential access will be based on current Logan City Council requirement which
stipulates that 90% of new residential dwellings are within 400 meters of an existing or
potential future bus stop.

What this means is that bus services will be routed into mazes to satisfy this coverage requirement resulting in super slow anti-patronage services so bad that everyone will get a car and no one will use it.

Or alternatively quite direct routes like the 529 which run once or less per day.

I think the bus service will turn out something like the 399 to Samford initially, despite the rhetoric.  The pressure should be on getting a decent bus connection to both Beenleigh and Browns Plains from day 1.

[HappyTrainGuy]

The 399 is poorly baked. Just like the 329 (Shouldn't really even be a route). It needs day time services even if the frequency isn't there. The same should apply if a similar route goes that way.

[Stillwater]

Why are people yabbering on about Yarrabilba?  What's the point?  CRR has got to the top of the IA tree, No.1 priority and shovel ready and is about to go pear shape.  Yarrabilba and all the other new lines depend on CRR.  It should be where maximum focus is directed at the moment.

[SurfRail]

Why are people yabbering on about Yarrabilba?  What's the point?  CRR has got to the top of the IA tree, No.1 priority and shovel ready and is about to go pear shape.  Yarrabilba and all the other new lines depend on CRR.  It should be where maximum focus is directed at the moment.

Nothing we say or so will have any impact on that for the time being.  The penny will eventually drop.

On the other hand, Yarrabilba is happening and looks like a disaster in the making, so I think it's well worth talking about.

[somebody]

Well, with enough bucks they could certainly make it happen.  I'm not at all disputing that.  They just don't see the bang in it, rightly or wrongly.

[Old Northern Road]

Disagree. If the majority of people are going to be commuting to the CBD then it makes a huge difference. The road network around Ellenbrook seems far more advanced as well (Plunkett Rd which is the southern border of Yarrabilba is only one lane).

They might be similar but Yarrabilba is clearly far worse

I'd be inclined to think most people won't be commuting to the city though.  It's further south from Brisbane than Ormeau/Pimpama and closer to the Gold Coast.  Unlike Ellenbrook there are considerably more large employment generators closer than the city like Yatala, Beenleigh, Browns Plains, Coomera, Loganholme, Logan Central, Helensvale.  With Ellenbrook, you've basically got only Morley, Midland and a few industrial areas like Malaga.

But there's a big mountain range separating Yarrabilba and the Gold Coast.

[Old Northern Road]

its nothing more than a short section of local road built many many years ago. Easily relocated.

Yarribilba may only be 50,000 or so but you have ignored the surrounding commuty and the ongoing growth as those farms get turned into smaller and smaller bits of land. Already many of the original 10ac blocks are being subdivided further and further.

Yarribilba is 40km from Brisbane, same distance as Beenleigh, Ipswich, Cleveland, Cabulture and Redcliffe. The development of the area was a late start due to the formly proposed Wofdene dam, cancelled in mid 90's. My inlaws bought there thinking they would have a 10ac block for a hobby farm, 1 year later they were allowed to build. Its attractive due to its convient location to Brisbane and GC. Saying people won't commute to the city is like the original proposal Springfield won't need HR and HWY sity access because everything is going to be there. Bum bum, people live and work where they like. Look at Richlands station, about 4000 people use it in Peak. With Springfield I'm assuming this will rise 6000 or so for the line. You will get this from Yarribilba and Tamborine region in 10-15 years no problem.

The line won't cost billions. Using Springfield as a guide it should fall under $1B, just depends on what you do at Bethania and how many stations etc.

Cab to Central - 26 stations
KR to Central - 27 stations
Bethania to Cental - 23 stations + 4-5 stations to Tamborine Village

Longterm likely result will be Cab and KR don't stop at 4 stations, Albion, WW, Toom and Nundah. Or at least Albion and WW.

Cab trains may eventually one day go via Trouts Road with less stops.

Beenleigh line trains will not stop at many stations nth of Greenbank line junction with Beenleigh trains going via the tunnel with less stops.

So catching a train from Yarribilba to City should be no less painfull than many other parts of the network and I would assume certainly less painful and time consuming than cathcing a bus that may have 20 or so stops to Loganlea station which is only one station up from Bethania so the railway route can not really be seen as a round about route. The railway past a few bends out of Bethania will then be on fairly good alignment the rest of the way and speeds should be good.

In reference to another post on how good European railways are and using Munich as an example, this line wouldn't cost anywhere near $1B. It would be a single line to Bethania using DMU's until the frequency and numbers rose enough to justify a spark and even then it would remain single track until frequency exceeds around 20min.

Cleveland is 24 km from the CBD, Ipswich 30km, Beenleigh 32km, Kippa-Ring 27km. The only one that is a similar distance is Caboolture and you could argue that it would never have become part of Brisbane's urban sprawl if it wasn't for the rail line.

Most of the area surrounding Yarrabilba isn't part of the urban footprint so you are not going to see much of a population increase. Logan Village and Jimboomba will get slightly larger and that's it. By comparison I'm pretty sure Springfield will eventually have over 100,000 people and Ripley Valley over 200,000.

Also the line would cost well over $1 billion. Kippa-Ring is costing over $1 billion and it's a little over half the length of this line. There is a huge amount of level crossings between Bethania and Logan Village that would need to be removed.

[#Metro]

But there's a big mountain range separating Yarrabilba and the Gold Coast.

http://goo.gl/maps/Rgb6S

Doesn't matter. Can still get to Surfers Paradise within 1 hour by car. 1 hour is about what it takes to go from one side of Brisbane to the other by PT, especially train (30 minutes on train + 30 minutes wait).

People on Moreton Bay Islands aren't deterred by having to catch ferry or being on an island.

Also the line would cost well over $1 billion

Agreed. Makes you wonder why they didn't choose low hanging fruit like Rosewood line. No need to lay down tracks, it's already there.

For anyone who has been to Sydney or Melbourne and seen the multi story units and apartments in the suburbs, it is not scary. Seems like anything in Brisbane above 2 levels is instantly a NIMBY target.

Examples
Grey Street, St Kilda (like west end)
http://goo.gl/maps/DIJVC

Dandenong (whole street is just units after units after units - high density without towers)
http://goo.gl/maps/Ug00R

Manly
http://goo.gl/maps/MutYc

[#Metro]

What are people's thoughts on making the main road into Yarrabilba a toll road... 

[Stillwater]

^ Sure, let's debate that in preference to what is happening in the real world.  http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/taxpayer-cost-of-bush-train-trip-like-flying-to-new-york/story-e6freoof-1226575762598

[Golliwog]

^ Sure, let's debate that in preference to what is happening in the real world.  http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/taxpayer-cost-of-bush-train-trip-like-flying-to-new-york/story-e6freoof-1226575762598

There is this though: http://www.thechronicle.com.au/news/mayor-opens-historic-bypass-forum/1748197/

...
The road will be tolled and has introduced a new class of vehicle, super heavy commercial along with the four recognized classes across Australia.
...
"There will be a mandate put in place that all heavy vehicles will use the tunnel."
...

Only putting in sections of it, but for reference, the quote at the end is from Projects Queensland Executive Director Dave Stewart. So apparently the Toowoomba bypass is not only going to be tolled, but ALL trucks will be forced to use it. Or so they claim anyway.

[Old Northern Road]

http://www.dlg.qld.gov.au/resources/map/seq-regulatory-2009/seq-regulatory-map-24.pdf

As you can see from this map none of the area surrounding Yarrabilba is part of the urban footprint so there should be no further development for many decades at least. You can also see how small Yarrabilba is compared to Springfield/ Ripley Valley.

I'm fairly sure that they will not allow any new lines to be built in SEQ with level crossings. I know it's not technically a new line but still.

I also notice that all references to the proposed Flagstone/ Beaudesert line have been removed from the government websites so even that seems unlikely to happen for many decades.

http://www.flagstonejimboomba.com.au/business/transport.aspx

The website for Flagstone however seems to be suggesting that the rail line is guaranteed. Odd picture too.

[colinw]

The real estate spruikers out that way have been touting rail as "guaranteed" since the 1970s at least. I have friends who lived in Greenbank from the early 1980s, and they were told "electric rail within 10 years" even back then!

I do not believe there will be a single additional km of rail under this Government, other than what was pre-committed by Labor.  In any case they are going to completely screw up or just plain abandon CRR so there's no capacity to build any such lines anyway.

[#Metro]

We all know the rubbish pedalled by real estate agents is about as believeable as 2000 express buses down legacy way.

I don't think we need yet more extensions to the system. Concrete is super expensive. spend it on more service. It is a sad fact that even though qr budget increases, very very little actually trickles down to moving actual passengers on train services.

[SurfRail]

The only extensions which I think could work on current infrastructure would be:

1. Kippa-Ring

2. Further west than Springfield

3. A little bit further south on the Gold Coast - Elanora perhaps, but not all the way to the border.

All of these have additional infrastructure requirements further down the line though:
- Petrie to Strathpine additional track and platforms
- Electrify fourth road Darra to Corinda and add fourth platform at Oxley
- Coomera River bridge at a minimum, preferably additional track from Salisbury to Kuraby and improvements at Loganlea/Beenleigh

This is ignoring CRR, without which you won't get any patronage growth or new lines like Flagstone or the NWTC.

[somebody]

In any case they are going to completely screw up or just plain abandon CRR so there's no capacity to build any such lines anyway.

I'm not as negative as you.  The ALP was going to screw it up too, with the infrastructure south of Yeerongpilly preventing segregated services.  I think CRRlite can still get done.

[colinw]

We are but a few months from Newman in QLD + Abbott in Canberra. I really do not believe it is going to get funded.

[somebody]

We are but a few months from Newman in QLD + Abbott in Canberra. I really do not believe it is going to get funded.

If Abbott gets in that does reduce the probability significantly.  Certainly agree with that.

[colinw]

Pardon my cynicism. Feeling a bit 'dark' about everything today.