Rail Bypass

[#Metro]

1. Upgrade Exhibition line (ICRCS Proposed)
2. Gateway Rail Bypass: SG/NG Underground Freight Tunnel from the Cleveland Line to Albion (mirrors Gateway Bypass)
3. Toowong to Everton Pk (could be done at the same time the Inner Orbital Freeway tunnel).

[mufreight]

More pipe dreams that are less than practical, realistic or affordable.

[ozbob]

Dreams or not, something will need to be done for separation freight and passenger eventually.  I think freight and passenger rail are going to surge somewhat.  The western bypass may yet resurface (combined road and rail).  Killed by the experts as not needed .... yeah sure!

[#Metro]

Mufreight does have a point about not being wasteful. Sydney has many disused freight lines, though nowadays we are becoming more creative, they can become rail trails, enthusiast lines or light rail lines.

But how is it that rail tunnels are a pipedream, but car tunnels are not?

Though while they are down there digging car tunnels, put a rail one.
We can't build our way out of congestion with roads, and neither can be dig our way out of congestion either.
More and more tunnels mean less and less paths available to avoid hitting another tunnel (i.e. S1 sewer needs to be avoided, and now Clem 7 too)...

[O_128]

Mufreight does have a point about not being wasteful. Sydney has many disused freight lines, though nowadays we are becoming more creative, they can become rail trails, enthusiast lines or light rail lines.

But how is it that rail tunnels are a pipedream, but car tunnels are not?

Though while they are down there digging car tunnels, put a rail one.
We can't build our way out of congestion with roads, and neither can be dig our way out of congestion either.
More and more tunnels mean less and less paths available to avoid hitting another tunnel (i.e. S1 sewer needs to be avoided, and now Clem 7 too)...

Firstly there is the possibility that if the tunnel is freight private partnership will be easier. Second I read somewhere that the CRR would be 2 tunnels (one each way) for each line. So if we are using the same boring machine as the clem 7 2 lines would easily fit down each tunnel. So there is the possibily of having seperate entrances for freight.

[verbatim9]

Mufreight does have a point about not being wasteful. Sydney has many disused freight lines, though nowadays we are becoming more creative, they can become rail trails, enthusiast lines or light rail lines.

But how is it that rail tunnels are a pipedream, but car tunnels are not?

Though while they are down there digging car tunnels, put a rail one.
We can't build our way out of congestion with roads, and neither can be dig our way out of congestion either.
More and more tunnels mean less and less paths available to avoid hitting another tunnel (i.e. S1 sewer needs to be avoided, and now Clem 7 too)...

Apparently road tunnel borers are different to those of a rail tunnel borer as the rail tunnel borer lays tracks behind as it digs in front so may the clem7 tunnel machines may not be appropriate in this case.

Firstly there is the possibility that if the tunnel is freight private partnership will be easier. Second I read somewhere that the CRR would be 2 tunnels (one each way) for each line. So if we are using the same boring machine as the clem 7 2 lines would easily fit down each tunnel. So there is the possibily of having seperate entrances for freight.

[#Metro]

Not 100% sure, but TBMs were used on the Madurah line.
Tunnel first, track later?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandurah_Line

Construction of the line started in February 2004. The contract for the city centre works, including the tunnels, was awarded to a joint venture of Leighton Contractors and Kumagai Gumi. The contractors used a Tunnel Boring Machine manufactured by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries.[4] The first tunnel was completed on 3 June 2006,[5] and the second tunnel was completed on 27 October 2006.[6]

Thousands of tonnes of coal off to China roar past people's homes every morning, freight from China and other places does the same, but in reverse. There is supposed to be a minerals boom and freight will boom too, how are costs recovered by freight use on railway tracks? Mining royalties? Are there track use charges?

SEQ Regional Freight Strategy
http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/Home/Industry/Freight_and_heavy_vehicles/Freight/South_east_queensland_regional_freight_network_strategy/

[O_128]

Not 100% sure, but TBMs were used on the Madurah line.
Tunnel first, track later?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandurah_Line

Construction of the line started in February 2004. The contract for the city centre works, including the tunnels, was awarded to a joint venture of Leighton Contractors and Kumagai Gumi. The contractors used a Tunnel Boring Machine manufactured by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries.[4] The first tunnel was completed on 3 June 2006,[5] and the second tunnel was completed on 27 October 2006.[6]

Thousands of tonnes of coal off to China roar past people's homes every morning, freight from China and other places does the same, but in reverse. There is supposed to be a minerals boom and freight will boom too, how are costs recovered by freight use on railway tracks? Mining royalties? Are there track use charges?

SEQ Regional Freight Strategy
http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/Home/Industry/Freight_and_heavy_vehicles/Freight/South_east_queensland_regional_freight_network_strategy/

I agree that is just a special type of machine. No need to waste money for what we already have

[stephenk]

Mufreight does have a point about not being wasteful. Sydney has many disused freight lines, though nowadays we are becoming more creative, they can become rail trails, enthusiast lines or light rail lines.

But how is it that rail tunnels are a pipedream, but car tunnels are not?

Though while they are down there digging car tunnels, put a rail one.
We can't build our way out of congestion with roads, and neither can be dig our way out of congestion either.
More and more tunnels mean less and less paths available to avoid hitting another tunnel (i.e. S1 sewer needs to be avoided, and now Clem 7 too)...

Firstly there is the possibility that if the tunnel is freight private partnership will be easier. Second I read somewhere that the CRR would be 2 tunnels (one each way) for each line. So if we are using the same boring machine as the clem 7 2 lines would easily fit down each tunnel. So there is the possibily of having seperate entrances for freight.

A few points:
1) The Cross City Rail tunnel is in itself a passenger bypass to avoid freight movements.
2) There is probably not enough clearance along the Cross City Rail route for Clem7 sized boring machine. There are other things underground!
3) 2x single track sized TBMs should require less earth removal than 1x two track/road sized TBM.
4) 2x single track rail tunnels are probably safer than 1x two track rail tunnels.

[O_128]

2) There is probably not enough clearance along the Cross City Rail route for Clem7 sized boring machine. There are other things underground!

What is at 45m underground other than the Clem 7

[stephenk]

2) There is probably not enough clearance along the Cross City Rail route for Clem7 sized boring machine. There are other things underground!

What is at 45m underground other than the Clem 7

The line (which is at varying depths) has to avoid (by a distance of at least the tunnel diameter) the S1 sewer twice, the future 2026 rail tunnel twice, and Clem 7. All whilst trying to find a route with as shallow stations as possible to reduce cost, and keeping gradients within acceptable limits. Oh, and not forgetting avoiding alluvium deposits with buildings on top, building foundations, underground car-parks etc etc. It's all in the ICRCS Pre Feasibility Report.