New timetable - Cleveland line

[ozbob]

Your suggestions please.

[O_128]

15 min off peak

Realistically A more coherent peak timetable eg every 7 mins running from 6am to 10am instead of the current jumble. Eg 7:00, 7:07, 7:14, 7:21, 7:28, 7:25, 7:35, 7:42, 7:49, 7:56, 8:00, 8:07...... This means the timetable can be memerised.

Even more relistically A filler between the 4:04pm and 4:28pm.

[Jon Bryant]

5 min peak, 7and a half shoulder and 15 off peak.   

[stephenk]

5 min peak, 7and a half shoulder and 15 off peak.   

Sorry, but there is not enough track capacity between Park Rd and Bowen Hills for a 5min peak service (12tph). With current infrastructure more than around 8-9tph will be difficult to schedule during the peaks. 15mins off-peak is only possible from Manly to City.

The Cleveland Line's infrastructure with multiple long single track sections makes peak scheduling difficult. There should be no gaps longer than 15mins between Manly and Buranda - currently there is a 23min am peak gap. This may involve making some Cleveland expresses less express.

[Jon Bryant]

There really is no hope for PT.  If it is not enough drivers then it is not enough rollingstock and then there is not enough track.  I give up!!!!!

[O_128]

There really is no hope for PT.  If it is not enough drivers then it is not enough rollingstock and then there is not enough track.  I give up!!!!!

I agree. Every idea put forward is either to hard or to much

[#Metro]

Sorry, but there is not enough track capacity between Park Rd and Bowen Hills for a 5min peak service (12tph). With current infrastructure more than around 8-9tph will be difficult to schedule during the peaks. 15mins off-peak is only possible from Manly to City.

Hmm. Imagine this with a heavy rail extension to the City. How are we supposed to achieve metro like frequencies within 5 km range of the city when there is crossing conflicts and single track.

There really is no hope for PT.  If it is not enough drivers then it is not enough rollingstock and then there is not enough track.  I give up!!!!!

What have they been doing with our tax dollars? Oh right... 1960s road & freeway crusades...

[#Metro]

On another note, niggling conflicts and single track aside, where should the 2 tier timetable break?
Should express trains go all the way to Many before stopping? Other ideas?

[O_128]

On another note, niggling conflicts and single track aside, where should the 2 tier timetable break?
Should express trains go all the way to Many before stopping? Other ideas?

Express Park road to morningside and then express cannon hill to wynnun central

[stephenk]

Should express trains go all the way to Manly before stopping?

Not if it results in passengers from Buranda to Wynnum having a peak service gap of more than 15mins.

[somebody]

There really is no hope for PT.  If it is not enough drivers then it is not enough rollingstock and then there is not enough track.  I give up!!!!!

But aren't all these arguments valid reasons why things can't be done right now?

I disagree that sentiments expressed on this board are that everything is too hard.

Express Park road to morningside and then express cannon hill to wynnun central

Yeah, that sounds pretty reasonable without checking the loading stats.  A lot of the stations between Cannon Hill and Wynnum are industrial areas aren't they?  And besides, you would also have all stoppers to Manly.

[O_128]

There really is no hope for PT.  If it is not enough drivers then it is not enough rollingstock and then there is not enough track.  I give up!!!!!

But aren't all these arguments valid reasons why things can't be done right now?

I disagree that sentiments expressed on this board are that everything is too hard.

Express Park road to morningside and then express cannon hill to wynnun central

Yeah, that sounds pretty reasonable without checking the loading stats.  A lot of the stations between Cannon Hill and Wynnum are industrial areas aren't they?  And besides, you would also have all stoppers to Manly.

Cannon hill and morningside would be the busiest stations outside of manly and cleveland.

[mufreight]

Also posted on the Gold Coast line thread but the same applies here
Based on the timetabling sequences being proposed those people wishing to commute between intermediate stations, local commuters. would be considerably disadvantaged which would be a detriment to their use of the services and would result in these commuters being forced into using other forms of transport such as the car, not the most desirable outcome for public transport. 
   

[Jon Bryant]

I agree with mufeight.  We need to service both local and longer commutes.  As a ex-planner my approach is to set the services we want and then identify what infrastructure, rollingstock and staff are required.  This list is then prioritized to give the biggest improvement for the buck first along that journey.  It does not make long term sense to keep trying to improve services without changing the base capability.  Someone will loose out and this is not good for PT.  

[somebody]

Also posted on the Gold Coast line thread but the same applies here
Based on the timetabling sequences being proposed those people wishing to commute between intermediate stations, local commuters. would be considerably disadvantaged which would be a detriment to their use of the services and would result in these commuters being forced into using other forms of transport such as the car, not the most desirable outcome for public transport. 
   

If you take this argument to it's logical conclusion then we should have no express services.  Or at least no lines without some services which stop all stations.  Are you advocating all stopping trains to Varsity Lakes, or Nambour?  What about Ipswich or Caboolture, should they lose all their express services?

I really don't understand the hatred QR have for express services.  Pax love them, and they make more effective use of rolling stock and crews in many situations.

[Derwan]

If you take this argument to it's logical conclusion then we should have no express services.

Um... not it isn't.  I believe mufreight was pointing out that you still need to provide all stations with adequate service.

Are you advocating all stopping trains to Varsity Lakes, or Nambour?  What about Ipswich or Caboolture, should they lose all their express services?

I can't answer for mufreight, but from reading what he was responding to, he was talking about the suggestion to run express services in areas closer to the city where there isn't adequate service for those travelling to/from stations that are skipped.  I don't think he was suggesting that long-haul services lose their express status.

I really don't understand the hatred QR have for express services.  Pax love them, and they make more effective use of rolling stock and crews in many situations.

The only passengers who love them are those who get a quicker trip!  Those who travel to or from the stations that are skipped would obviously hate them.  I reckon QR would hate them because they make timetabling more difficult.

There is a place for expresses on the longer lines - particularly in peak to allow for the majority who travel to/from the city (provided other services aren't reduced).  There are some lines (e.g. Ferny Grove and Shorncliffe) where providing more frequent services is more beneficial than shaving a few minutes off the travel time.

[somebody]

If you take this argument to it's logical conclusion then we should have no express services.

Um... not it isn't.  I believe mufreight was pointing out that you still need to provide all stations with adequate service.

Well in peak currently about 8tph operate, including Manly terminators.  If it was 4tph all to Manly (or maybe Lota or Thorneside), and 4tph Park Rd, Morningside, Cannon Hill, Wynnum Central all to Cleveland all stations would be receiving 4tph and the most popular ones until Manly 8tph.  I'm not too sure about track constraints, but the question was to ignore them.  Besides, a third track will allow the expresses to overtake, but even that is only required if the express gains 9mins on the all stopper.

The only passengers who love them are those who get a quicker trip!  Those who travel to or from the stations that are skipped would obviously hate them.  I reckon QR would hate them because they make timetabling more difficult.

They wouldn't hate them so much if their own service was satisfactory.