Taxis & Ridesharing - articles, discussion ...

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Queensland government gives Uber ride-share the green light

Brisbanetimes --> Brisbane no closer to Uber app approval

[techblitz]

All of this is definitely grey market in australia......if they are classed as public transport or a taxi booking company  then they can be pinned on wheelchair accessibility straight up......and will no doubt be asked to provide the relevant vehicles.

[#Metro]

I think we should take this and fight for Uber and other companies like this. Current taxis are not great and the purpose of licensing is (a) simply to make money for the gov't and (b) shut out the market.

Taxi licence should cost no more than $25.

If you don't like it, don't use it.

[ozbob]

Taxis do provide a good local transport service.  My guess is the Taxi council are doing very intensive lobbying.

I can see both sides to this.  What will happen from here is that I think there will be ongoing negotiations and eventually a compromise found I believe.

Uber and Govt will sort this out. 

[James]

Taxis do provide a good local transport service.  My guess is the Taxi council are doing very intensive lobbying.

I can see both sides to this.  What will happen from here is that I think there will be ongoing negotiations and eventually a compromise found I believe.

Uber and Govt will sort this out.

Some of the current taxi drivers are just downright crap drivers and do not deserve to have a taxi license full stop, and an experience I had on the weekend just cements my opinion in this respect. The two major taxi companies are as "good" as Brisbane Transport when it comes to a "world clarse transport service".

Extortionate pricing, a system which has left me sitting on the side of the road in suburbia for up to an hour and taxi drivers which drive worse than myself (someone who cannot legally drive without a supervisor). The taxi industry needs to be deregulated and taxi license prices lowered significantly. It is in the public's best interest.

[techblitz]

Im all for innovation but the way UBER have approached qld is rather comical and newbish.
Just reading the statement from  the uber on the qld situation in that article.....the guy is pretty much saying...go easy on us...we have produced a world class...highly downloadable app on the apple/google stores that will revolutionise and provide cheaper fares for all....so please give us some exemptions....pretty please?


Seriously though...
With the current taxi licence costs totally out of thier control and rather hefty....why wouldnt the cabbies lobby?
2 of the major issues here are accessibility & security which are all linked into the 5 year taxi standards initiative for QLD

An example of the current requirements....Blackwater QLD...was screaming out for a taxi service when the long term operator closed-up (personal issues).
After a 4 year hiatus.....an operator finally puts thier hand up...but were told....dont even consider starting a taxi service until you provide at least one dda compliant (vastly more expensive) taxi.
And how will uber approach brisbane from a security aspect? Uber have just walked in and said we will provide vehicles with no security cameras installed.
Newbs

Exerpt from the taxi 5 year plan 2010 -2015   <<<< did uber even read this or know it existed??

A person getting into a taxi is entitled to feel personally safe and to expect that the taxi driver is competent, the vehicle is safe and, in the event that an incident occurs,
that appropriate technological and system safeguards are in place and functioning.

There is no questioning ubers intentions ,take the market by storm,take it big-time.....the fact that they say "pretty much in bold" that they are cheaper than a current taxi from here to there.....is a clear sign of thier intentions..
However....if they want to play with the big boys in brisbane.....they will have to play by all the rules.....and have no disability discrimination and be expected to provide safe,secure vehicles.
Yep it will be sorted in QLD....once uber coughs up the proper vehicles

Uber does have potential from the cheaper fares aspect....however emerson should and no doubt will take them to the rafters on security and accessibility & demand that they cough up or go elsewhere....they may have been able to walk into other neighbourhoods with ease but not qld with its "5 year taxi standards initiative"


@LD once again your living in a dream world....25 dollar taxi licence ...so i guess truck,food ,financial adviser,real estate agent,auctioneer licences should also be 25 dollars?

[#Metro]

@LD once again your living in a dream world....25 dollar taxi licence ...so i guess truck,food ,financial adviser,real estate agent,auctioneer licences should also be 25 dollars?

Yes, absolutely. The paper on which one prints the licence + ink is about 25 cents. Typing an entry into a government database might take 5-10 minutes.

Why charge so much more than the production cost?

Could someone please tell me the link between "public safety" (insert bleeding heart icon here) and greed of a taxi cartel?

Currently standard Taxi Licences are selling at around $510,000.00 plus Stamp Duty (approximately $17,700.00 based on a purchase price of $510,000.00) plus GST if applicable. Some licences have conditions, which may affect the decisions of prospective purchasers. These conditions may be that the vehicle must be owner-operated, or that the vehicle must be wheelchair accessible.

You know something is wrong when the licence costs 25x the production cost of the actual car being driven. $510 000!!! Now who's living in dream world?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupational_licensing

[red dragin]

@LD once again your living in a dream world....25 dollar taxi licence ...so i guess truck,food ,financial adviser,real estate agent,auctioneer licences should also be 25 dollars?

Yes, absolutely. The paper on which one prints the licence + ink is about 25 cents. Typing an entry into a government database might take 5-10 minutes.

Why charge so much more than the production cost?

I'd expect much like fares

A) People will pay to a certain amount
B) Stops everyone doing it and flooding the supply.

[ozbob]

Taxi Council Queensland --> Message to Members  [Uber]

[James]

I'd expect much like fares

A) People will pay to a certain amount
B) Stops everyone doing it and flooding the supply.

What is wrong with everybody becoming a taxi driver? Is it because taxi prices might become reasonable again?

Remember the cost of setting up a taxi company isn't a small one - and you need to have 24/7 availability. As such, mum/dad can't really set up a taxi business. It won't become  a free for all, but there will be more competition, which will lead to cheaper prices (as the industry is a for-profit one). Right now, the system is an unhealthy highly regulated duopoly with high barriers to entry. No wonder taxis are so expensive. Fares need to be priced so that a taxi is affordable, and that entering the market doesn't require the purchase of a license which does not reflect the cost to the government of issuing the license and is worth as much as a suburban house or luxury apartment.

[#Metro]

Remember the cost of setting up a taxi company isn't a small one - and you need to have 24/7 availability. As such, mum/dad can't really set up a taxi business. It won't become  a free for all, but there will be more competition, which will lead to cheaper prices (as the industry is a for-profit one). Right now, the system is an unhealthy highly regulated duopoly with high barriers to entry. No wonder taxis are so expensive. Fares need to be priced so that a taxi is affordable, and that entering the market doesn't require the purchase of a license which does not reflect the cost to the government of issuing the license and is worth as much as a suburban house or luxury apartment.

Oh silly me, I thought you were talking about Brisbane Transport for a moment there  and their special regulatory position as protected monopolist where their contract cannot be challenged by outsiders and hence fares have exploded...

[#Metro]

I was recently at Arlanda Airport  (Sweden) on holiday and there were at least 8 different taxi companies, they all charge whatever fares they want. (Airport has an upper cost limit - exception).

Almost anybody can go do the tests and become a taxi driver, no restriction on licence buying, a taxi licence costs $100 AUD for the paperwork and $190 for the ID card which you need. A far cry from $510 000!!

Here is the form http://www.transportstyrelsen.se/Global/Blanketter/Vag/Yrkestrafik/Taxi/TSTRY1215-ansokan-om-taxiforarlegitimation.pdf

"Vi tar ut en ansökningsavgift på 1 200 kronor för taxilegitimation och 600 kronor för förhandsbesked. När ansökan
har kommit in till oss skickar vi en faktura till dig. Avgiften återbetalas inte om du skulle få avslag.
Obs! Vi påbörjar prövningen av din ansökan först när ansökningsavgiften är betald"

(In English:)

We charge an application fee of SEK 1 200 for taxi ID and 600 dollars for the ruling. when the application
has been received by us we will send you an invoice. The fee is not refundable should you get turned down.
Note We begin consideration of your application only when the application fee is paid

[techblitz]

new name for them...NUBER

You know something is wrong when the licence costs 25x the production cost of the actual car being driven. $510 000!!! Now who's living in dream world?

no LD your still living in it.....25 dollars is just absurd and a hoot....kind of ironic that you have just mentioned licence costs in sweden which are still nearly 10 times what you think should be charged in QLD ....and did i say that current taxi licences are ok costwise?......i clearly stated they are expensive 
I had a rather big discussion on expenses (and regulations) with the owner of the blackwater service and what he had to cough up before he started the much needed service for that town.

[James]

new name for them...NUBER

no LD your still living in it.....25 dollars is just absurd and a hoot....kind of ironic that you have just mentioned licence costs in sweden which are still nearly 10 times what you think should be charged in QLD ....and did i say that current taxi licences are ok costwise?......i clearly stated they are expensive 
I had a rather big discussion on expenses (and regulations) with the owner of the blackwater service and what he had to cough up before he started the much needed service for that town.

techblitz, that was just a suggested number. Even $1,000 to get a license (which would be a suitable barrier to stop random community members getting it for a lol) would be 510x cheaper than they are currently.

[#Metro]

The regulations which the taxi industry complain about were lobbied for and created by ... the taxi industry itself.
If there really was concern from the customers perspective, who would be down at parliament house? Angry Customers. Is this what we see? No, what we see is angry producers/suppliers...

Levelling the playing field and making things 'fair' is very simple - just abolish the regulations so taxis don't have huge licence fees and a mountain of regulations to work under.

[techblitz]

After hearing the complaints from blackwater owner...yes...the current licence prices are excessive and no doubt contributing to higher taxi fares.

techblitz, that was just a suggested number. Even $1,000 to get a license (which would be a suitable barrier to stop random community members getting it for a lol) would be 510x cheaper than they are currently.

a suggestively stupid number, not that he needs you to jump to his defence....but he said it should be 25 dollars because thats how much it takes to print one and enter the data. Wake-up sunshines  There are actual administration costs involved in enforcing the taxi licences.
1000 dollars sounds far more realistic.....but once again depending on costs involved of maintaining those licences and i am going to assume...the number of taxis out there in the field....licence costs should incoroporate not only the cabbies....but the auditors and regulators...and we all know qld is a fairly regulated state.

[SurfRail]

The licences should all be cancelled and reapplied for through competitive tendering.  If you can supply the service for cheaper than Cabcharge within the required benchmarks, go for it.  If you lose your investment because you have been relying on rentseeking behaviour and not doing the hard yards to improve your service and win back the licence then stiff - you have been the beneficiary of a massive rip-off for decades and the gravy train is due to derail.

The requirements to run a taxi service are unnecessarily prescriptive quite aside from the cost of acquiring a licence.

[johnnigh]

The ridiculous taxi plate price (at auction) is simply caused by the limit on the number of plates. The auction value is related to the returns an owner can make, higher returns, the higher the value of a plate. Why doesn't govt de-regulate plates and offer them to anyone who can satisfy safety etc requirements? Because it would wipe out the investment in plates made by current owners. 20 or 30 yrs ago the NSW govt abolished restrictions on licensed egg producers and wiped out licence values, and all hell broke loose in egg & chook towns like Tamworth. Govt caved and paid extortionate compo to now-valueless licence owners. The same would have to happen for taxis if ever a govt took the necessary steps.
A side benefit would be improved conditions for drivers, who are currently simply slave labour, working for a pittance from owners colluding within their cartels. Without a plate value, it would be easy for an ordinary pleb to buy a car, fit it for a cab and drive it. A good deal less than $100k as against half a mill or more... Which is why only plutocrats own cabs now, and why cab drivers are so awful.

[ozbob]

The Boston Globe (opiniona) --> Uber isn't the problem; taxi regulations are

[techblitz]

would be interesting to see how this would go down in brisbane on new years if they miraculously get the go ahead in brisbane
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/uber-new-years-eve-surge-pricing-2014-1

The company uses an algorithm that gauges demand versus available cars on the road to come up with how much the surge pricing should be at any given moment.

current taxi fare brisbane city to archerfield @ new years (13.1km) >>> 34.46.......now how much did that person pay for thier 7 mile trip via uber?
116 usd 

[Mozz]

Interesting indeed ... http://www.yellowcab.com.au shows me that City to Archerfield is estimated at $42 and City to Corinda (my place) is around $42 ....around 12km of driving from George street, CBD.

[techblitz]

Was going off this site...obviously outdated on fares!

http://www.taxifare.com.au/rates/australia/brisbane/

[James]

would be interesting to see how this would go down in brisbane on new years if they miraculously get the go ahead in brisbane
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/uber-new-years-eve-surge-pricing-2014-1

The company uses an algorithm that gauges demand versus available cars on the road to come up with how much the surge pricing should be at any given moment.

current taxi fare brisbane city to archerfield @ new years (13.1km) >>> 34.46.......now how much did that person pay for thier 7 mile trip via uber?
116 usd 

I actually think the demand-driven Uber is not a bad idea. It prevents those awful hour-long waits for taxis in peak periods, that's for sure. They're paying more for the convenience of being able to get a taxi ASAP. If people had a brain, they'd either use public transport or consider active transit on a night like NYE.

[#Metro]

Using uber is voluntary. If you don't like it, don't use it.

[techblitz]

Using uber is voluntary. If you don't like it, don't use it.

Lets rephrase that to sum up the current sitch for brisbane
If you dont like it,dont let it operate 

[ozbob]

Twitter

Jacinda Tutty ‏@JacindaTutty

Not everyone may have been happy to see @Uber_Brisbane launch, but riders have welcomed the app with open arms. More in @mXBrisbane today

[ozbob]

Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow

. @scottemersonmp Is Uber legal or illegal in Brisbane? #qldpol some clarification is needed please .. #qldpol

[ozbob]

Minister for Transport and Main Roads
The Honourable Scott Emerson

Taxi technology to stop overcharging

Taxi passengers will have confidence that they aren't being slugged with the wrong fare as changes to Queensland law come into effect.

Transport and Main Roads Minister Scott Emerson said that from 1 July, automated meters will be compulsory in more than 3,000 Queensland taxis, eliminating confusion and overcharging.

"The new meters are programmed to automatically apply the correct tariff reflecting the time and day of travel, including public holidays," Mr Emerson said.

"Taxi drivers will no longer need to manually enter in automated toll charges as they will be applied through GPS technology, providing a more accurate fare calculation.

"This reduces the chance of drivers deliberately or accidentally setting the meter to an incorrect tariff, resulting in the passenger paying an incorrect fare.

"We promised at the election to revitalise frontline services and we are delivering with a strong plan that will benefit hundreds of thousands of people, whether they are using it for business or heading out for a drink on the weekend.

"We want passengers to feel certain that the fare they pay is the right one.

"Drivers can also rest assured that a reduction in fare disputes and complaints from their passengers allows them to operate in a more secure, positive working environment."

Chief Executive Officer of Gold Coast Cabs Martin O'Riordan said he was pleased to see the new laws come into effect.

"The Queensland taxi industry is regarded as one of the leading taxi services in the world," Mr O'Riordan said.

"Progressive initiatives such as the implementation of automated taximeters is just one example of how the industry and government are working together to achieve continual improvement for our passengers.

"By removing the human error factor, automated meters will provide an additional level of confidence that the correct tariff and toll are always applied."

This latest change in technology is part of the Queensland Government's taxi reforms that were announced last year and included installing audio in taxis.

For information on taxi fares, visit www.translink.com.au or call 13 12 30, anytime.

[ozbob]

Computerworld --> GoGet eyes driverless car sharing, public transport alliance

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> New twist on car pooling could save $100 a week

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Uber operates in Brisbane despite cease and desist order

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Uber illegal and drivers will be fined, says South Australia government

[techblitz]

Brisbanetimes --> Taxis in bid for failing bus routes

Interesting....very interesting..

[Arnz]

Brisbanetimes --> Taxis in bid for failing bus routes

Interesting....very interesting..

TUZ* THE 314!!!!!1111!!!!!!!

*Taxi Upgrade Zone

[James]

Brisbanetimes --> Taxis in bid for failing bus routes

Interesting....very interesting..

TUZ* THE 314!!!!!1111!!!!!!!

*Taxi Upgrade Zone

All of the Sandgate local routes (311 - 314) should become PPT (e.g. go-card enabled taxi) services. When I went for a trip on the 314, the only pax we got (4 all up) were 3 grannies going for lunch at a local restaurant up there and an elderly blind man.

Both trips would be far better catered for by taxi-based PPT, especially at a time of day where there are surplus taxis roaming around. I would also argue that this should be used in some other areas - Long Pocket in Indooroopilly comes to mind as a potential spot (when I travel through there I wonder if anybody actually uses the 417 down that far), as does Centenary Village, Darra.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Fare's fair in taxi industry's battle with Uber

[ozbob]

Timing interesting.  No doubt a move by the Taxi industry to consolidate against Uber.

Certainly is a place for Taxis in a community role.  Would appear though the Government has dismissed it already.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

27th August 2014

Greetings,

Taxi Council Queensland bus contestability proposal novel; may have merit

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers encourages the Taxi Council of Queensland to develop its proposal further as bus contestability approaches.

Although the idea is unusual, it may well have merit. Given that the bus network within Brisbane operates and charges like a taxi, it does not surprise us that actual taxi operators have become interested in running some bus services. We hope the transport minister Scott Emerson will keep an open mind, especially considering that the TransLink 2013 bus review found that 49% of existing routes carry an average load of 7 passengers or less, which is well within the capacity of a maxi taxi (10 persons).

There may be scope for taxi or maxi taxi operation on low frequency, light patronage bus routes, for example, Brisbane Transport bus route 314. And there is no reason why taxis cannot also be put on scheduled fixed routes or stop at bus stops like a bus, in addition to semi-fixed or fully flexible routing options. This would free up 65-seat buses for use elsewhere on the network.

Passengers who experience severe medical difficulty walking to a bus stop may also find such a service useful, and this would also address Brisbane City Councillor objections raised during the bus review along exactly these lines as it may be possible to offer front door service.

On the question of reliability and availability, the Queensland Government's own Minimum Taxi Service Levels standards state that 95% of patrons are picked up in 20 minutes or less. This is significantly less waiting time for a passenger than a traditional bus operating on a 60 minute schedule.

Provided that taxi operators could demonstrate value for money, it would seem unreasonable to bar them from the bus contestability process for low patronage, infrequent bus routes. A hand held smart card reader, similar to those already in use by overseas transit agencies, or a paper ticket, could be used.

For example, in Sweden, a popular taxi transport service exists that is dedicated to serving passengers with wheelchairs, medical transport needs and other vulnerable members of the community. Hand held smart card readers are also in wide use by both bus and tram operators within Stockholm.

We would encourage the members of the Taxi Council to prepare an expression of interest and ask for the opportunity to be considered during the bus contestability process. A map of low frequency, low patronage bus services that may be taxi-contestable can be found by using our in-house CheckYourBus tool ---> http://tiny.cc/checkyourbus

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

References:

1. Taxis in bid for failing bus routes http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/taxis-in-bid-for-failing-bus-routes-20140826-108m4s.html

2. Samtrans, Sweden (use Google Translate for English) http://translate.google.se/translate?hl=en&sl=sv&u=http://www.samtrans.se/

3. Minimum Taxi Service Levels http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Travel-and-transport/Taxis/Taxi-Service-Levels.aspx "Off-peak, 85% of patrons being picked up in 10 minutes or less 95% of patrons picked up in 20 minutes or less."

[#Metro]

All of the Sandgate local routes (311 - 314) should become PPT (e.g. go-card enabled taxi) services. When I went for a trip on the 314, the only pax we got (4 all up) were 3 grannies going for lunch at a local restaurant up there and an elderly blind man.

Route 314!! 

[STB]

I certainly think Taxis should be Go Card enabled, they are a form of public transport, especially if they are doing Flexilink type services and there are a number of routes and locations that would certainly be suitable for Flexilink type services.

In the case of Uber, I think Uber should start looking at getting automated cars on the roads that are already starting to come out and may be viable within the next several years as a way around the illegality regarding the Uber system.  Imagine just talking into your smartphone with a Uber app, and an automated car comes to pick you up and drop you off to where you need to be!